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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:40:00 -
[91]
Originally by: El'Niaga (snip)
What I'm going to suggest is going to be hard. It may not be popular with the GMs, the Devs or other CCP employees. I'm sure that many of your characters are among the oldest in the game. When you have a fire though, you make a firebreak in order to contain the fire. That's what you need here, a firebreak.
I have to agree with El'Niaga's post. As much as you dislike K's tactics, the issue is not going to go away. And if it's not K that does it, it will be other people who believe that they've been wronged by a GM/Dev abusing their powers. This witch hunt will continue until people feel satisfied by new rules and procedures.
Personally, I'm on the fence regarding "outing" Dev/GM alts. It's worthwhile to the long-term health of the game that there are devs/GMs who have piloted capital ships and dealt with 0.0 issues. But it's also a problem area because it's too easy to abuse their knowledge.
In other MMOs, the typical rule is that you can't play on the same server that you GM. That's not a possibility here. So either characters need to be shelved when a player becomes a CCP employee or there need to be strict rules regarding behavior.
Some ideas (some horrible ideas):
- Forcing the character to change alliances quarterly, with no repeats within 12 months. - Only allowing limited play time per week on chars over X million skill points. - Shelving the character for the duration. Possibly allowing only skill training of existing skills. - No leadership position in any corp larger then X players. - No membership in corps larger then X players that are involved in 0.0 politics on a significant scale.
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Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:41:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama CCP: I'm sure you're aware of why so many people "mudsling". Basically, we have several allegations of influential people in large alliances who have a history of getting the rub of the green (so to speak) having GM assistance.
Now, it turns out that in BoB's case, it was true. Other allegations were brushed under the carpet. The CAOD forum isn't exactly a bastion of free speech, and your blogs aren't helping either.
Kugu does what is necessary - he posts the truth and lets everyone else decide what to glean from it. A very large number of people lost a lot of faith in CCP, and in EVE as a whole, when they discovered that CCP employees [I note nothing's been said about the ISD allegations a while back] are making it impossible to have a level playing field. Many people consider the game to be tainted, and I'm your efforts at PR are really just polarising opinions more.
You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot is, in fact, a Dev. I'm sure you realise why people have a problem with that.
Dude is this a joke?
When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame, its public knowledge that they RECRUIT GMS from the player base. If you dont like this, or think its cheating that the dev team knows about their game from a player perspective, the game isnt for you.
Well all agree that Dev and GM accounts should be closely monitored and any cheating punished, but The Enslaver did nothing wrong, he retired once he got the GM job, and there is absolutely no proof of him cheating.
The only thing Kugutsumenwhateverthehell did disclose what that a GM has a normal char in EVE, which screwed up a build up char for years from Ens.
What this kugu guy does is not reveal what is necessary, he didnt reveal and misuse of anything.
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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:41:00 -
[93]
No matter what CCP will do the morons around here will keep on throwing **** around.
That's like an axiom.
:/ This stuff sucks... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Ishtar Amin
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Ishtar Amin on 02/03/2007 18:41:14
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Kazou Kiriyama
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 -
[95]
Ozzie: Realised my mistake and edited. I of course meant GM, and not Dev.
As for "Get a clue and perspective", I have both, thanks. I would suggest that those who cannot understand the reasons behind the dislike of playing against those employed by CCP who have more power than the average player should not accused others of lacking perspective.
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot is, in fact, a Dev. I'm sure you realise why people have a problem with that.
Let me correct your post ...
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama(updated) You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot became(is), in fact, a GM(Dev). I'm sure you realise why people have great respect for(a problem with ) that.
Why should anyone have a problem with that ? A great plyaer, with indepth knowledge of the game, was invited by CCP, to put all that knowledge to good use, as a GM.
Makes perfect sense to me. -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:44:00 -
[97]
@Arkanon: Great blog! @The Enslaver: Grats for your new job as GM.
@Kugutsumen: Get a live and leave Eve alone. We donŠt want your "services".
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Kazou Kiriyama
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:46:00 -
[98]
Chewan,
Quote: When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame
Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.
If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.
I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?
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Kazou Kiriyama
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:48:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jaabaa
Let me correct your post ...
No need, I did it myself. Dev/GM was a simple mistake (I meant GM, I typed Dev).
Quote: Why should anyone have a problem with that ? A great plyaer, with indepth knowledge of the game, was invited by CCP, to put all that knowledge to good use, as a GM.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.
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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:48:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Chewan,
Quote: When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame
Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.
If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.
I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?
And who said they knew? And with certain allegations of crap GMs i fully support CCP getting people with great in depth knowledge of EVE. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:49:00 -
[101]
Where is the problem with the GM retiring from the alliance then, there is no conflict of interest anymore, he didnt pilot the titan, he didnt make any alliance decisions, nothing.
If you wanna see it like that and mistrust CCP, every gm and every dev, regardless if they have an account as normal char or not, might like BoB more or LV or Goons and cheat for them.
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Kazou Kiriyama
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:50:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Kazou Kiriyama on 02/03/2007 18:48:16
Originally by: Isyel And who said they knew?
The conversations that Kugu posted make it pretty clear.
Again - I have no problem with him getting hired as a GM.
Originally by: Chewan Mesa Where is the problem with the GM retiring from the alliance then, there is no conflict of interest anymore, he didnt pilot the titan, he didnt make any alliance decisions, nothing.
He didn't leave LV when he became a GM, and still logged onto Vent etc (according to Kugu, that is).
Do you not understand why the whole BoB business means that CCP really need to be far more careful and adopt a different strategy?
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:52:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.
I think that just happened, maybe a couple of his close friends ingame knew that he had got a job as a CCP GM, but I can assure you that it wasn't public knowledge, or that would have been the 1st thing up on kugu's (**** head) witch hunt site (err, forum). -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation |
Jake Noble
Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:53:00 -
[104]
Originally by: breadcat Yay, GMs are flying titans on tranq...poor little GMs. Dont make it sound like enslaver is a victim lol.
No flaming please -Eldo Davip([email protected])
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Kazou Kiriyama
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 -
[105]
Jaabaa: I dunno, it seemed to be up there pretty quick as part of the whole exposure...
Anyway - I don't wish to spam this thread any more, just wanted to explain my position further.
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Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Edited by: Kazou Kiriyama on 02/03/2007 18:48:16
Do you not understand why the whole BoB business means that CCP really need to be far more careful and adopt a different strategy?
I'm perfectly aware of the "issues" that result from the t20-incident, however they did adopt their strategy as you put it. They introduce an internal "organ" screening the dev/gm activity and their player-accounts to stop any cheating from happening in the future.
This is enough of a change of plan for me, since the other option, stopping to recruit players as GMs is not an option imho.
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SaIIy
Minmatar X1 Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 -
[107]
Originally by: LoxyRider I seriously can't wait until this "professional hacker" gets life.
I fixed it for you ....
And this "professional hacker" calls himself a security expert and tells people he is doing them all a favor ... what a complete loser, they should lock him up and throw away the key imho!!
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Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:56:00 -
[108]
Ens, mate. Normally i'd say catch me on MSN, but i can't, so...
<3
Stay out of my sig, it's not funny. Thanks for proving my point. |
DEVILSENIGMA
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 18:56:00 -
[109]
Edited by: DEVILSENIGMA on 02/03/2007 18:52:35
Originally by: Jaabaa
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.
I think that just happened, maybe a couple of his close friends ingame knew that he had got a job as a CCP GM, but I can assure you that it wasn't public knowledge, or that would have been the 1st thing up on kugu's (**** head) witch hunt site (err, forum).
Sometimes it's hard to hide from people that you've switched countries.
PS: That was NOT sarcasm --- Eve Database | TQ Server Status Coldfront Come in and feel the chill |
Jags
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.
This is as much a surprise to us as it is to you m8.
This was well handled by Ens and CCP IMO.
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PirateShampoo
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:00:00 -
[111]
Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 18:57:54 Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 18:57:43
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Chewan,
Quote: When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame
Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.
If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.
I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?
We did not know enslaver was a GM it was that simple. People have been asking for months where is he, why is he not piloting the titan we we need him, why is he not leading? Simply almost everyone (if not actually everyone) did not know he was a GM.
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Lord MooMoo
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:01:00 -
[112]
So why the cover-up? Why was GM Zhainius' employment history wiped by CCP some time in the last month, on both SiSi and Tranq? There have been numerous complaints about his job performance and objectivity, but escalated petitions are never looked at.
I dunno, it just seems like more of the same -- and it's exactly what can be expected after the last few incidents.
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:02:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama Ozzie: Realised my mistake and edited. I of course meant GM, and not Dev.
As for "Get a clue and perspective", I have both, thanks. I would suggest that those who cannot understand the reasons behind the dislike of playing against those employed by CCP who have more power than the average player should not accused others of lacking perspective.
ok fair enough.
But perspective: It's ok to illegally hack forums and ts, it's ok to expose a GM despite no hint of wrongdoing, it's ok to ruin a long known char, to force people to hide and stop playig the game who just want to help the game. Perhaps in extreme cases forced to resign or get fired from their IRL jobs.
And why? Because people are paranoid their little computer spaceships are getting blown up unfairly. Even though (and in this case) there is absolutly no evidence of any wrongdoing.
The perspective I talk about is the fact that IRL and a game are very very different things. If people have trouble seeing that then i do worry... -----
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PirateShampoo
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:03:00 -
[114]
Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 19:01:57 *nm*
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Le Pecarosh
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:06:00 -
[115]
I don't think 99% of players care if Enslaver was/is a GM.
Many people still care to receive answers to many questions, politely ignored by CCP, asked in the '106-page' thread.
Good luck to Enslaver.
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Danny Hawk
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:07:00 -
[116]
congrats on the job ens, ccp couldnt have made a better choice *snip*. Signature inapropriate. Mail us at [email protected] if you require further assistance - Valorem |
Venatus Phoenix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:10:00 -
[117]
Unfortunately this is what happens in a single shard environment where you allow employees to play with the player base without clear and openly posted rules about what said employees are allowed to do in game.
I want to share in the congratulations to Ens on his newish job and I applaud his actions if he was truly willing to give up his character for said employment to try and remain impartial. Unfortunately though being impartial is the real meat of this issue that CCP faces. Even by giving up his characters he still has a, hopeful, lasting friendship with those he used to play with and/or a scorn towards those that he played against. Additionally unfortunate is it's not a hard stretch to say those likes and dislikes couldn't influence how he uses his new position of authority. I am not saying that he has done any of that or will in the future. But not that long ago most people wouldn't of thought that Devs were spawning BPOs for their alliance. As it is some GM actions seem to be on the whim of how that particular GM is feeling that day since there's no clear documentation to the player base on what they can expect for those recurring petitions.
I used to GM for Everquest way back when it was top dog and you weren't allowed to GM on a server that you played on. Hell, you were strongly encouraged to not even learn the names of the major guilds or the politics involved on that server so that you could remain impartial. Again, this is the issue that CCP faces with these "scandals".
Though I personally think the, "Devs need to play the game to develop it.", is a bunch of bull and really it's a slap in the players face given how old some issues are that are still unresolved. CCP could go a long way in saying what their employees are allowed to do. If the answer to that is simply, "Whatever they want within the game.", then they will always be called into question about how impartial they are.
There needs to be restrictions on what employees can do and those restrictions need to be posted for the players to see.
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babylonstew
Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:11:00 -
[118]
well. personally, im damn glad the GM's actually play the game how many times have we all seen posts, or heard friends complain the gm's are useless and dont understand the game blah blah blah.
then we get a GM who has been playign the game at a high lvl id guess for years, so is in a great position to make informed sensible decissions and some asshat thinks its clever to tell the world and ruin his gaming experience.
i think its a damn shame tbh.
the guy even offered to retire his characters ffs, (according to the blog), how much more dedicated do you want?
in summary, despite the 'recent events', i still support CCP and all its staff 100%, might nto allwats agree with them on certain things, but end of the day, they aint doing too bad all in all
------ *snip* please keep sigs EVE-related. Contact [email protected] if you have any further questions - Karass Sayfo CCp nerfed my sig and all i got was this crummy message ^^^
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Wrayeth
The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:13:00 -
[119]
While I believe that bringing to light the situation with T20's character was valid as there was misconduct involved, the current incident is bull****. Unlike T20, The Enslaver did absolutely nothing wrong, yet he still pays the price. The hacker who did this needs to be locked up with a pack of starving lions. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
Laendra
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Posted - 2007.03.02 19:13:00 -
[120]
First off, congrats on the internship Ens...CCP couldn't have found a much better choice to bring inhouse than you.
Secondly, it is fecking sad that a bunch of *******s (you people should be kicked squarely in the crotch... repeatedly.) have to resort to this kind of tactics to ruin the game not only for the people 'outted', but also for the people that have been built relationships with them.
Hopefully, if people are 'outted' in this sort of malicious attack, that if the character is recycled, that the effort that went into building their character is transferred to a new character, especially since there was no wrongdoing.
Also, CCP should seriously consider changing their policy on CCP players ingame. Since they are tracked, as long as there is no confirmed wrongdoing, they should be allowed to remain, because if you don't allow it, this kind of malicious witch-hunting is going to continue, as you validate that their efforts are being noticed and action is taken.
I can't say this enough, you people should be kicked squarely in the crotch... repeatedly. Truly the only people that I have come to actually r/l hate. ------------------- |
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