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Lielu Lee
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:42:00 -
[1]
first no - i dont have any T2 BPO. im building tech I stuff
second - T2 are supposed to be rare pure combat vessels.
What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example? I really like the idea of rare uber combat ships amongst normal tech I ships.
Leave number of tech II bpos on current level pls.
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nickky01
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:44:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Lielu Lee What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example?
the price of heavy nos goes up? -------------------------------------------
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates.
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Kharakan
Amarr Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: nickky01
Originally by: Lielu Lee What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example?
the price of heavy nos goes up?
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Thyro
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lielu Lee first no - i dont have any T2 BPO. im building tech I stuff
second - T2 are supposed to be rare pure combat vessels.
What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example? I really like the idea of rare uber combat ships amongst normal tech I ships.
Leave number of tech II bpos on current level pls.
So, are you building T1 stuff!
How about build T2 stuff?
Isn't the same?
Then...
How about having T2 BPOs on the markets like T1 BPOs? (many would wish!)
That would mean a fair play... So what is wrong not be rare but be fair?
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Thyro
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: nickky01
Originally by: Lielu Lee What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example?
the price of heavy nos goes up?
Yeah the prices of all T1 stuff would go up to build T2 stuff
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Lielu Lee
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:55:00 -
[6]
because main idea of tech II is to be smthg rare, that only few can use. few that have invested some time into training and time into gathering experience in tech I ships.
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sakana
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.02 23:01:00 -
[7]
faction is meant to be rare, t2 is not. ------------
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Thyro
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Posted - 2007.03.02 23:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Thyro on 02/03/2007 23:04:20 Edited by: Thyro on 02/03/2007 23:00:07
Originally by: Lielu Lee because main idea of tech II is to be smthg rare, that only few can use. few that have invested some time into training and time into gathering experience in tech I ships.
hum?
T2 are rare because just a bunch of people have them and are retaining (controlling the market for max profit). As soon as T2 market opens and cartels are dismantle T2 market will start to exist and work fairly. Well unless the exactly same people get another T2 round.
But what's ur point with training. T1 ships exist and server a purpose but anyone have T2 ships in the skill path and that is unavoidable.
What cannot and should not happen is exist a market that works fairly (T1 market) and a 2nd market that is a monopoly of a few. The markets must be open T2 prices are more than 10x their real value.
The lottery created this monopoly which is unfair for those play the game as researchers, manufacturers. So if you get a T2 you "win" the game if not then just forget it.
---edited----
Would be fair if T2 BPOs were available on the markets like T1 are. So that anyone that want to be research/manufacture (and with ISK) had a change to play their role and have fun playing their part in EVE.
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.02 23:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Thyro Would be fair if T2 BPOs were available on the markets like T1 are. So that anyone that want to be research/manufacture (and with ISK) had a change to play their role and have fun playing their part in EVE.
1) Its called a Lottery. A few win, most lose. Thats the whole *point* of a "lottery".
2) Freely available T2 BPOs would total devalue them. PvPers would be happy, but industrialists like me would whine that we now have no "endgame" to aspire to.
3) Faction gear prices would skyrocket due to PvPers looking for that added edge. Cue more whines about "low" faction drop rates and how its unfair not everybody gets access, and how a few 0.0 alliances control the rich pickings and its a "cartel" rabble rabble rabble. Incidentally, industrialists still lose out due to no way to make faction gear.
3) In the long long run we end up like WoW. Everyone has cool gear, so to give an added edge to people and to reward effort in game, CCP releases more powerful gear. Soon we'll all be running around looking for the "Mod of a thousand truths"
------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Thyro
X0-1 Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.02 23:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
2) Freely available T2 BPOs would total devalue them. PvPers would be happy, but industrialists like me would whine that we now have no "endgame" to aspire to. truths"
Currently T2 are well overvalue. Most of T2 modules well over 10x their real value (including margin of profit). Therefore having T2 "freely" will not devalue. But will make the price come down to their real value (production cost) and some margin of profit.
If "endgame" means lowering your 50% to 80% margin of profit to 10% or 25% then so be it. That would also mean competitors in the market.
Matter that really does not exist at moment due to T2 monopoly market (only few T2 modules have almost their real value but their are exception and are not general).
This is might not only make PVPers/PVErs happy but also all others that like you want to play an industrial role either in research / producing for the markets. And that these roles in EVE have been in the last 2 to 3 years as "endofgame" too.
You cannot avoid see everyone aiming for "cool gear" the skills are set for that, the ships/modules and all game mechanics was designed with that in mind.
Now the differnce is paying 10x (and some times over 100x) their real price or not.
I'm sorry but vote goes for a fair game play which means T2 "freely" (that means with a price) but limited number and a price. This is what I consider fair.
Drops, well any T1 drop also affects T1 industrials and missions drop a lot of T1 modules without mention named ones. So building T1 modules for market is a wast of time the only valid thing is building T1 ships. Because npcs do not drop ships thankfully.
But who knows if some Dev have a bright idea of including some of those named stuff also in the inventions, instead of the current inventions stat of afairs (T2). That would the breakthrough for those research role-players.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.03.02 23:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
Originally by: Thyro Would be fair if T2 BPOs were available on the markets like T1 are. So that anyone that want to be research/manufacture (and with ISK) had a change to play their role and have fun playing their part in EVE.
1) Its called a Lottery. A few win, most lose. Thats the whole *point* of a "lottery".
2) Freely available T2 BPOs would total devalue them. PvPers would be happy, but industrialists like me would whine that we now have no "endgame" to aspire to.
3) Faction gear prices would skyrocket due to PvPers looking for that added edge. Cue more whines about "low" faction drop rates and how its unfair not everybody gets access, and how a few 0.0 alliances control the rich pickings and its a "cartel" rabble rabble rabble. Incidentally, industrialists still lose out due to no way to make faction gear.
3) In the long long run we end up like WoW. Everyone has cool gear, so to give an added edge to people and to reward effort in game, CCP releases more powerful gear. Soon we'll all be running around looking for the "Mod of a thousand truths"
There is this cool thing that happens to cool gear in Eve, it either gets blown up, or ends up in somebody else hanger.
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Karma Coma
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Posted - 2007.03.03 09:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: sakana faction is meant to be rare, t2 is not.
Listen to the man! You might have envisioned T2 items as being 'rare' and 'valuable', however, the game developers simply disagree with you here. Like mentioned above officer>complex>faction loot is suppose to be rare - and rarest in that order. T2 was designed to be powerful and skill intensive versions of their T1 counterparts.
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Tassill
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:08:00 -
[13]
The problem i see with the current t2 bpo distribution system is that it favors older players.
When the game was first released the lottery was fair as every one was on equal footing. Now however this is not the case for a number of reasons.
1. an older player with 100 k rp's has a higher chance of getting a bpo than the new guy with 1 k
The counter argument for this is that they have had to work for longer to get these rp's up which is true.. but this makes the lotter not entirley fair.
Would you buy a lottery ticket in a national lottery knowing that all the tickets (number combinations) that older players had previously bought were still counted? I wouldnt, but in this case their is no real allternitive except buying bpo's.
2. T2 bpo holders are realy the only ones who have the isk to invest in more t2 bpo's
When a profitable bpo goes on the market it is my opinion that only the current t2 bpo holders realy have the isk to spend on another bpo. This once again gives the old players an advantage as they are more likley to be t2 bpo holders than new player.
I am fairly confident that if someone was to do a study of the character age of t2 bpo holders the majority of profitable bpo's whould be held by older players.
So in short i think that the lottery system is flawed
I think that one way to make the lottery more fair would be to only allow the rp's from each day to be tickets in that days lottery. The rest can be deposited in a datacore bank and spent on datacores.
Then ccp just needs to seed enough bpo's to get the prices under control but not make t2 to common and ban all their devs from entering the lotter / owning t2 bpo's.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lielu Lee first no - i dont have any T2 BPO. im building tech I stuff
second - T2 are supposed to be rare pure combat vessels.
What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example? I really like the idea of rare uber combat ships amongst normal tech I ships.
Leave number of tech II bpos on current level pls.
Exactly! Pure combat vessels! The ultimate pwnmobiles! Last time I went to Egghelende with the Occator... *wait* nahh I don't really wanna tell about that. |
Neon Genesis
Gallente The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lielu Lee because main idea of tech II is to be smthg rare, that only few can use. few that have invested some time into training and time into gathering experience in tech I ships.
Hate posts like this. You think T2 is supposed to be rare, others do not. There's no 'main idea' in sight.
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CyberChick
The Ghost Riders Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: CyberChick on 03/03/2007 10:51:37 Please check the description of any t2 ship - Elite, but I don't see rare listed!
Rare, and luxury are used far too many times to justify massive profits on hacs.
Its odd that ships are considered luxury items, but how many times is a t2 medium armor repairer ever been called luxury or rare....
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.03.03 18:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lielu Lee first no - i dont have any T2 BPO. im building tech I stuff
second - T2 are supposed to be rare pure combat vessels.
What will happen if there will be deimos on every gate for example? I really like the idea of rare uber combat ships amongst normal tech I ships.
Leave number of tech II bpos on current level pls.
T2 is not suppose to be rare, Ovuer has even stated it's the 'new baseline' in a blog, or should be, hence invention, which needs improvements still as only the heavily gouged items are worth making still.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Logan Weavend
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.03.03 20:10:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Logan Weavend on 03/03/2007 20:08:22 Sorry, I'm a newb, but can someone explain to me exactly what the big deal is about BPOs?
I mean, can't you just work for it and get it if you really want it, like everything else in the game? I don't understand how people can maintain any kind of cartel if there's a truly determined player intent on underselling them once they have developed said BPO.
Oh, and as far as t2 is concerned, I never thought it was supposed to be rare, I thought it was just supposed to eb better, more expensive (and therefore riskier to use) than t1 stuff, but seeing as I rarely use t2 items beyond a few ship mods, there's certainly a chance I'm 100% clueless. --------------- Logan Weavend- CLS Pilot and Devoted follower of Cuppism.
Ha, now I have my name in my post so I can search for it! I can find my post now, I win EVE! |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.03.03 20:26:00 -
[19]
Leave T2 bpos fix invention like they said they would in the latest blog. Problem frakkin solved.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.03 21:38:00 -
[20]
I have to agree that T2 should be at least semi-rare. What's the point of T1 if T2 is easy to get? It just puts an artificial barrier (skillpoints) in place of players being able to use/fly what would become the standard (T2).
Although I'm personally not too happy with any T2 just generally being 'better' than T1 anyway. It should pwn in some very specific situations, and then be no better than T1 in others - otherwise it just becomes a necessity to use. But that's a discussion for another pointless topic... ___
Nice one CCP |
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