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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
155
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Posted - 2016.06.23 19:59:17 -
[121] - Quote
00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote:All these haters in forum.
Its so annoying.
People cant notice the difference of opinions between newbros and dinosaurs.
Look at veteran posts, they all want it out of the game.
Look at newbros, you wont find one that did not liked it.
This is very, very annoying in forum. Really that CCP is hearing this people?
The Sp boost was a very good stuff for beginners. Wish i had it when i started.
It was lacking a lot of options imo, as my previous post but really, no point to remove it from the game.
Imo, this was the bad decision. Watching the profile of most people that camp forum is like watching the behavior and dynamics of a cerebral cancer
So... Maybe this is a teensy bit off-topic, but what is the dividing live between vets and newbros?
Is it a hard line that splits the player base into two distinctive parts, or is it more of a continuum from the newest newb to the oldest-fart?
--Curious Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
601
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Posted - 2016.06.23 19:59:56 -
[122] - Quote
Ollie Hakaari wrote:Get your noob ship, remove the civilian gun, trash the ship. Undock, dock, get new noob ship, remove mining laser, fit 2nd civilian gun. Undock, fly to a belt in 0.8 system, target and kill 1 rat. Rinse & repeat final step each day and it's a nice thank you CCP. This kind of thing is exactly why dailies should have NEVER been released.
Why anyone would actually want to login everyday to do that is beyond me.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Tweety Bird
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
165
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:02:04 -
[123] - Quote
How can I do bamboo post-patch? |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1869
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:07:46 -
[124] - Quote
Nice. Now give me back watchlist and I might actually play again.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
601
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:10:06 -
[125] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:But what I love about the OP is that it shows us a delightfully flexible and experimental mindset about game features from CCP and that is just wonderful to see. Seems to bode well for the ongoing possibility of keeping things fresh with new stuff being popped in here and there, then retired and replaced with something else new a bit later. Sounds to me more like CCP are willing to release ill thought out and poorly developed ideas onto tranquillity with little to no quality control. It annoys me that CCP even thought this was a good idea to begin with.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Max Groote
Aliastra Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:11:23 -
[126] - Quote
I'm seconding the call to add this back in in a similar way for young characters (< 5 million SP), since it was a really great way to get a boost for training shorter skills and to start playing the game sooner. |
Bishop Xsi
Blackfriar Bridge
89
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:26:58 -
[127] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I wish you'd keep dailies for characters with less than 5 million SP, or perhaps less than two months old. It's not only hard to kill rats with so little SP but it's also visceral to apply SP to low level skills. It might not have the effect you want on veterans but I'm sad to see it go after seeing its benefit to new players.
This is something I hadn't thought of, but it's an excellent point. It's all well and good for me to warp my Eagle to a belt to zap a rat and be off, but there are newbies out there that might actually be taking a risk to get the SP they sorely want. I bet succeeding at that sort of thing would make a new player feel pretty good. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School
294
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:30:47 -
[128] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Maybe this is a teensy bit off-topic, but what is the dividing live between vets and newbros? the dividing line between innocent newbro or champion thereof and hateful bittervet is is whether or not they agree with [your opinion here] |
Daenerys Picard
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:34:20 -
[129] - Quote
I guess I will go back to log in once a week. |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
104
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:38:09 -
[130] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Kolmogorow wrote:I like the removal! To me it was an attempt to attract players by giving away cheap cookies which doesn't belong into EVE at all. Improving and creating exciting game content is the way to go to make players login and I hope all future efforts will focus only on that.
I also doubt that this was a real achievement: "We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day..." That bump above the average level of players who are "killing something" each day anyway doing PVE or PVP were likely the ones who were just flying quickly to a belt to get their daily cookie. Of course, everyone enjoyed the cookie but I doubt they enjoyed the way to get it.
And why should everyone be driven into the habit of "killing something"? There are a lot of players who like traveling, exploring around, mining, manufacturing, research, invention, trading, logistics, etc. - and if not always than at least in longer phases. Yes, the game is actually that good to found and enjoy a whole long-term career on not killing something. Don't touch that!
TFW highsec guy in a tax evasion corp talks about 'free cookies' being a bad thing.
So desparate to feed your alts with free cookies that you can't bring more than ad hominem arguments? Or what's the point why you apparently like login-shoot a frig-logoff? If you want your skill training faster then you can work for it and buy skill injectors. You are playing long enough to know how to make ISK for them. And as a historical note: One doesn't found a corp for the sake of tax evasion when there is no tax to evade.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33969
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:49:02 -
[131] - Quote
It's actually a rush to kite a frigate rat in a rifter with 2 million SP.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33969
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:52:35 -
[132] - Quote
Planet Busta wrote:Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D we're already dipping below 2006 numbers so that might be cutting it to basically half of PCU from 3 years ago.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Circumstantial Evidence
334
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Posted - 2016.06.23 20:54:37 -
[133] - Quote
Thank you CCP Rise, for reviewing data and reporting back.
I've read most every post up to this point, and noted around ~15 unique posts pointing out a great benefit to new players. While that is all well and good, CCP Rise let us know in a follow-up post to the previous thread that this feature would have to be "relevant" to ALL players in order to be called successful. I finally shot a few rats that got in my way, but looking at ~100m SP, it did not make me want to log in if I wasn't going to already.
Rek Seven wrote:I'm pretty disappointed that this is going away and is not going to be replaced with a better designed system, that encourages greater effort for greater rewards. The upcoming Shadow of the Serpent event will do exactly this. Check the planned addition to the character selection screen in the devblog screenshots. "Event points" we accumulate for performing various activities - including the possibility of mining, will unlock increasingly valuable rewards.
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Alyanna Dryke
ROC Academy ROC.
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:03:40 -
[134] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:I've read most every post up to this point, and noted around ~ 15 unique posts pointing out a great benefit to new players. While that is all well and good, CCP Rise let us know in a follow-up post to the previous thread that this feature would have to be "relevant" to ALL players in order to be called successful. I finally shot a few rats that got in my way, but looking at ~100m SP, it did not make me want to log in if I wasn't going to already.
Because new player retention in a game where most of the content is provided by players and with a declining population isn't relevant to all players?
We have all interest in new players having incentive to stay.
I haven't see anyone express any downside of having this feature left into the game. |
Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
876
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:08:05 -
[135] - Quote
Evo Team vs. Playerbase 0:1
So good....
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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Matthew Jonathon Defumar
A Royal Rental Group Hedgefund Digital Vendetta
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:11:25 -
[136] - Quote
As a player in their first year, the Thrill of the Hunt was something I logged in earlier each day for. It helped train into things that I was not mapped for, and thus learned some ship skills I would not of trained for at least several months. This allowed me to engage in more content with other players that have played for many years. I do believe the law of diminishing returns should of been used with the SP number though, just as injectors have.
Beyond that, its seems like the higher skill point players hated it. Because it removed a tiny piece of their dominance. Nothing near what injectors did, but they will never approve of anything that would balance the playing field with new players.
My first 6 months in game involved learning to avoid content by other players because the player trying to kill me were never similar SP pilots, but always someone with Vargurs and every tech ship smaller then it. Oddly enough, A few of those characters were ones making simplistic "I hated this feature" arguments on this thread.
I would agree with it being limited to a SP level or a time frame (or which ever is reached first) limit.
And now I shall raise my shield and prepare for the troll army. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
46
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:20:50 -
[137] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Ollie Hakaari wrote:Get your noob ship, remove the civilian gun, trash the ship. Undock, dock, get new noob ship, remove mining laser, fit 2nd civilian gun. Undock, fly to a belt in 0.8 system, target and kill 1 rat. Rinse & repeat final step each day and it's a nice thank you CCP. This kind of thing is exactly why dailies should have NEVER been released. Why anyone would actually want to login everyday to hunt a rat in a newbie ship is beyond me. It is a good thing that this type of gameplay is being removed.
Early gameplay rewards mission grinding. Standings, LP Gain, ISK rewards, other fixed rewards.
"New" players would have naturally earned that 10k/day reward. Older Industrialist wouldn't naturally, but for them it would be easy to put their installers in a system with a complex with small rats and do remote jobs. Market Traders wouldn't naturally, but the same as the Industrialist goes - remote orders. Mission runners and rat hunters would benefit, truth be told those players doing that probably have little need for the SP, and if they are based around good spots now then buying a Injector wouldn't cause most of them any real dent in the wallet. PVP players wouldn't naturally earn these things, and if they are in a highly populated low-rat area of space then it might be a pain for them to do this every day. Traditionally this is who CCP listens to (hence why so many people were crying over this feature to begin with).
If this "idea" was to keep players in the game then it was not a good one. Like I said before, I am "was?" logging in about 23 accounts just to "farm" this every day. press play on 6 accounts at a time and it doesn't take any real time. Perhaps they are removing it due to players like me "Abusing" the system?...
The problem with EVE is that it was/is complicated. Some things they try to make easier - by making them more complicated!
For example, Production about 10 years ago would let you put a blueprint in for "infinite" runs and all you had to do was feed it materials... In > Out constantly .. They wanted to make players engage the system more, give players different "Roles"... They made it more complicated.
R&D Agents, They were a HUGE grind for us players who used them (early days there was slim chances of great rewards), but then so many PVP players complained about the high cost of Tech2, New Industrialist complained that they couldn't get into Tech2. Invention was born. With Invention came the use of those old R&D Agents - Lots of passive ISK to be earned for some... We need to tax that and make it more complicated. Gave it a little time and R&D Agents were useless (Not even worth going to visit!). Tech2 bpo's have little to no real earning potential (tho, they still have much less hassle!). Invention players complained and once again CCP Jumped to help them... Invention was re-vamped again to help them become profitable... Run that out a few months and it is not profitable again and the are all mad.
So now they are at a stage where the older players don't get the Joy. Newer players feel left behind. Many PVP only players feel that they need to buy their way into the game. Industrial players feel like they need to get a PhD in Algebraic Geometry to be competitive. (I would be happy if most would just learn to look at cost -v- reward). PVE is meh... They push the interesting stuff out into areas where the PVP players can PewPew rat hunters.
CCP has spent too much time trying to make Everyone happy, Trying to push people into "Roles", Trying to milk the rich people in EVE to drain the isk, and trying to milk the rich people who play eve just so they can fund some odd projects.
I still love the Idea of EVE. I loved the fact that DUST once tied in with EVE - Something that we should applaud CCP for.
CCP should have pushed WIS, They should have pushed "Flying" on/at planets for other types of combat.
Sadly they just want to keep moving into the direction of "Fixing" everything and at the same time making everything more complicated. Look at the fact that they are pushing "CREST" and removing the browser (I can understand the need to remove it). But they are taking something where someone can write a simple URL and make things happen ingame, to a system where... Well, A system where you need programming skills to do that same thing. They want people to stop scraping the cache for information, but their endpoint doesn't give great updates. Players managed to do it but CCP couldn't... CCP did manage to kill the market sites and external WIKI's.
You say you don't get why someone would want to log in every day to kill a RAT. Some players want to log in every day to manage orders. Some players want to log in every day to build stuff. Some players want to log in every day to kill NPCs.
Be mad if you want, but 10k SP per day is really small in the scheme of changes this game has seen over the years (some good, some bad, some truly WTF). |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2621
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:22:40 -
[138] - Quote
Interesting results, would have expected a significant increase in logins. For me there were certainly some days I wouldn't have logged in without the 10k SP to gain (for my off-map training).
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Thomas Gargol
Order Collective Blades of Grass
1
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:26:13 -
[139] - Quote
I really feel like that this is unnecessary.
When I get my 10k daily I always thing about those newbie days that I would absolutely love having that 10k free SP a day to not waste all that time training the most basic of things. I feel like the dailes were great for new players. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
412
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:27:42 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:...On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind....
You should definitely bear this in mind should you repeat this in the future. Preferably go with a timer that resets at a fixed time (such as DT or 10AM GMT) rather than X amount of hours after the action is performed. For myself, while the extra XP was useful, it was not something I was going to go out of my way to re-arrange my daily schedule to take advantage of. There were a few times I missed the daily due to the 22 hour wait period. Had it been reset at DT, I would have missed none of the dailies.
Crowd Control Productions... you can perhaps direct the overall flow of things, but you cannot micro manage the individuals in the crowd. 13+ years of experience with the players of EVE Online should certainly have taught you that.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6196
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:28:10 -
[141] - Quote
Matthew Jonathon Defumar wrote:Beyond that, its seems like the higher skill point players hated it. Because it removed a tiny piece of their dominance. Nothing near what injectors did, but they will never approve of anything that would balance the playing field with new players. That wasn't the reason for me, a self-proclaimed newb and bittervet of 7 years.
Dailies for unique non-cosmetic rewards are burdensome for bittervets, as these type of dailies become a requirement rather than an optional bonus.
Should the daily have been for say 100 aurum, I really wouldn't have cared about it.
Another example is the Project Discovery rewards, which I don't have any issue with. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
266
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:39:01 -
[142] - Quote
Blitz Hacker wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Kelby wrote:@CCP Rise
Was this always intended to be a short term test? If so was its limited lifespan kept quiet to try and avoid influencing the results?
For what its worth I found it to be a nice little feature, it would be nice to see some variation in the goals and the rewards in the future but I'm surprised its being removed in its current form after a just month. It wasn't necessarily intended to be short term, but it was focused on information gathering and we knew that depending on results we could change or remove it. We did try to avoid influencing results by sharing any plans, but that wasn't hard since plans were so dependent on what happened. Glad you had a good experience with the feature, we will certainly have similar features coming, we just want them to be more integrated with with the rest of our work and be a little more robust overall. Have you guys considered AURUM? Dust 514 introduced a Login Reward system a while back that would pay 10 AURUM and escalate to 70 AURUM per day after 7 consecutive days. You could keep a Recurring Opportunity similar to Thrill of the Hunt and have it reward a small daily amount of AURUM. People interested in acquiring cosmetics like ship SKINs would be incentivized to log in and get that reward. But if they did that you would stop paying for cool sunglasses and stuff with your Plex.. Oh wait.. you don't.. or anyone doesn't more than once. lol Aur is funny :) I'm suggesting they use the drug dealer model. Give everyone a little taste to get them hooked and make them want more.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Elinara Yamamoto
Latex Entosis Insignificant Others
31
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:39:18 -
[143] - Quote
YES YES YES! MAKE EVE GREAT AGAIN!
This feature was the one that made me play Eve less, and that made me NOT create my 4th account as doing dailies 3 times was already enough of a chore for me. Now I will most likely create that 4th account in a few weeks (after I thought of char names etc) and be much more happy.
I can now play as I wanted to, not kill a rat because I felt psychologically compelled to do it.
THANKS CCP <3 this! |
ChrisIsherwood
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:47:51 -
[144] - Quote
My reaction is mixed.
One one hand, I liked the XP and that it helped with off-optimal attributes.
OTOH, it will save some time. One of my toons I was doing the daily on won't need to log in for the next six months. A couple of others will log in but won't ever undock. Since these two will still be logging in and since the metric you are monitoring is logins not activity their decline in activity will not hurt your metrics.
You are the professionals, but if WWB winds down and logins stay flat, that would seem like a win to me.
For me, the absolute, unequivocal goods news is the 22-hour daily is going away. Every other MMO I play/played, the daily meant daily. I was always perturbed CCP was doing something different yet inferior. I suspect dailies will be back at some point after logins/activity drop and hope they come back as actual dailies. |
imnotreal1
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:49:30 -
[145] - Quote
I was logging in more frequently because of event. I will miss event. Sorry to see go. |
Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
17
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:54:52 -
[146] - Quote
Azure and Argent wrote:Awesome. Now the next step is listening to the players telling you what was going to happen before you implement changes so you can save time and dev resources for useful stuff.
...AND avoid upsetting players by first implementing something that we knew in the long run would hurt the game (and bear that in mind. This mechanic didn't just "wash" as the OP would have you believe. I would bet real ISK that after the initial novelty wore off, dailies were starting to show the opposite effect of REDUCING desire to log in that was predicted!)
...AND avoid upsetting players by taking away a free thing, which will now reduce logins a bit more for a while before they return to normal.
I have a number of ideas to help you develop Eve PVE to make it interesting, dynamic, and meaningful. I probably should hold out and apply for a job, but I'm feeling generous. It's a lot so look for it in another post. |
Matthew Jonathon Defumar
A Royal Rental Group Hedgefund Digital Vendetta
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:59:48 -
[147] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Matthew Jonathon Defumar wrote:Beyond that, its seems like the higher skill point players hated it. Because it removed a tiny piece of their dominance. Nothing near what injectors did, but they will never approve of anything that would balance the playing field with new players. Dailies for unique non-cosmetic rewards are burdensome for bittervets, as these type of dailies become a requirement rather than an optional bonus. .
Requirement? Just because you don't want to do it, you make sure any one that wants to do, can not do it? --sigh-- If you don't want the hassle, then don't do it.
To other complaints-
Lots of people complaining, they don't want to log in their account to do it.. Then don't do it. Daily opportunity made you decide not to make a 4th account? LOL, yeah I doubt it.
If you are psychologically compelled to do it....well...sounds like a personal problem.
I saw a lot of posts of people that seem more mad that someone else is benefiting from something they would prefer not to do. Well don't do it. And let them play their way.
Its the same as if you hate mining....well don't mine then.
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Burning Furry
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
31
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Posted - 2016.06.23 22:00:15 -
[148] - Quote
So,
you're getting rid of a feature you acknowledge created more content and enabled people to advance their playing options further...
I don't know what to say other than you're a bit dim. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School
295
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Posted - 2016.06.23 22:07:46 -
[149] - Quote
Matthew Jonathon Defumar wrote:If you are psychologically compelled to do it....well...sounds like a personal problem. you realize this would be working as intended, right? |
Circumstantial Evidence
334
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Posted - 2016.06.23 22:08:31 -
[150] - Quote
Alyanna Dryke wrote:I haven't see anyone express any downside of having this feature left into the game. CCP has made other new-player boosting features in the past, I don't object to changing this feature somehow to benefit them exclusively. CCP Rise is saying it's being removed because it is not accomplishing what, or as much, as they hoped.
When I started in 2008, I could make a few choices in character creation that would boost SP in certain areas, and I had two level 5 skills on day one. That was pretty cool. But after a while, the choices were deemed problematic, and (I may recall this change out of sequence) NPE changed to nerf starting SP under 1m, but include a period of 2x accelerated SP training and bonus remap(s). CCP has also tried SP boosts for new players in the past via "cerebral accelerator" boosters included with some subscription packages. None of these NPE features required shooting a thing to get SP. |
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