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R3aliti
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Posted - 2007.03.04 04:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: R3aliti on 04/03/2007 04:49:07 Chain of events to this point:
The new Battlecruiser BPOs were released - I bought a Caldari Drake and headed off to find a lab to research the new BPO in. The best I could find after searching every lab in 6 different regions was a slot with a 34-day queue. Oh well, this is new system and it is SARCHASTIC "better". I put the BPO in and attempt to set it to run 20 cycles. The NEW BETTER SYSTEM tells me that I cannot run 20 cycles because it would exceed the NEW BETTER SYSTEM limits. I start lowering the cycle count 18 NO, 16 NO, 14 NO ------- 9 Yes. The 9 cycles runs 12 days. I get my researched ME:9 BPO out of Material Research today after having it tied up in research for 46 days. I start checking the mineral cost of building it at ME:9 û Hmmm û I need to take this thing to at least ME:20 to make any kind of profit for what they are selling for on the current market. I go off to find a suitable research facility to run yet another (9 the limit) cycles. Once again searching every lab in 6 regions the best I can find is 29 day 20 hours this is the shortest queue out there. So, now I am suppose to tie my BPO up for another 41 days and 20 hours to get it to ME:18. Going at this rate I will have a ME:20 BPO in 46 + 42 + 40 = 128 days.
Now before anyone starts with the flames let me explain that I have been here and researching BPOs as soon as I had my skills in place after starting this game on day one. (Date Of Birth 2003.05.11 7:09:00) I was also here for the Batas before that. I know about all of the changes to the research system that this game has gone through (yes, I paid 12 million/slot every 5 days to keep my six slots) and this last change is TOTALLY strangling research. I canÆt be the only one that is seeing this and is not happy about it. Please do something, anything to release this strangle hold on this part of the industry in the game. Please.
R3
PS: Caldari Drake BPO ME:9 for sale.
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SunGod RA
Bosun Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.03.04 08:39:00 -
[2]
psst... highsec research pos.
lots of people offer research services if you don't want the hassle of running a pos/grinding missions for standings. __________________
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.04 16:29:00 -
[3]
hey hey
Grab yourself a copy of the excellent Zatch's ME Calc then run the ME9 through and see what you get. . Now compare that to ME20 :/ CCP changed ME stealthily and you no longer need such high ME values as before. they also stealthily changed the research times and now BPO's take Fking forever to ME. but remember they need small values now and not the 100ME of old.
PS. WTS Hurricane BPC's ME20 Check Heimater Contracts :))
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.04 20:05:00 -
[4]
The wastage factor has always been 0.1/(1+ME), has it not? I remember it being that last time I tried to build something, around 2003-2004. If so, what did they recently nerf regarding ME?
"In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio |
R3aliti
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Posted - 2007.03.06 03:39:00 -
[5]
First - Thank you for no flames.
POS I looked at it - WOW - way to expensive to operate for a 2 person corp.
Apparently the point I was trying to make was a bit too vague. The(actual-in process)research time is fine and it appears to be the same as it was before. My point is that the queues of 30+ days (I have recently seen some over 40 days)during which your BPO is just sitting locked in the queue is what is TOTALLY strangling the research process.
I just hope some Dev does see this and thinks of a better method of doing this - I had to at least try to get some attention on this - maybe it has been overlooked as working and not in need of change.
R3
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Sable Moran
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.06 07:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: R3aliti PS: Caldari Drake BPO ME:9 for sale.
Original? For real? How much?
----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.06 08:57:00 -
[7]
just a couple of points to note.
the strangling of the ME slots could be because it then is a GM tool to limit production. in the first few days or release the demand for the new ships are high.
high demand, hig mineral cost, high production costs.. . High ship prices.
this makes the market and ship avilability slow. granted we are suffering with inflation atm but thats a whole other issue.
Also if you strangle the ME slots and tie up the BPO's longer you achieve Slow growth of the items in question. rathwer than every ship sudenly plumeting in price due to better ME and ergo better Prices and competition. but if this wasnt regulated then we would crash the market and also drive out producers. ther is an example of this i shouldnt quote but a certain BPO i had was making me some nice profit (reasonable) then with the new found availability and ME ease the item took a huge dive in price and the ***producers*** suffered. yes it created a very low market but er.. err.. I think i broke a few builders by selling at below production and a few angry mails certainly made me giggle \o/ market PvP.
as to what CCP seem to have done with BPO ME is they have excessivly increased research times. I remember when doing an item to 100ME was pretty standard and you could churn out high ME in days. Now (it seems to me) that ME research times on newer BPOs are alot longer than previous similar items. This is what I have noticed and is based on experience with BPO's/research etc etc.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:37:00 -
[8]
Go to low sec and NPC owned 0.0 and you have ME slots available imediately.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Trelennen
Disturbed Hoggs
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:41:00 -
[9]
Rather than starting a new thread, I'll up this thread which is only 1 month old.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Go to low sec and NPC owned 0.0 and you have ME slots available imediately.
Well, dunno what it was 1 month ago, but today you can do all the lowsecs you want, you won't find anything under 15 days for material efficiency research. If you're lucky, you'll find a couple of slots at the very end of low sec with no waiting time for copying, but in most lowsecs it'll be 2 days or more.
Heck, the number of slots didn't change since they change the way research labs worked, while the EVE population as somewhat tripled, and while there's much more different BPOs as well as BPOs who require much more reasearch / copying time (capital ships).
Additionally, I noticed while removing a research job that when you do so, the research slot is not freed!. This is completely silly (and even more considering there's much need of more lab slots). The thing is, it's very much not unlikely that there's people exploiting that feature to artificially increase the wait time on those slots with very low cost (putting for research a very low cost T1 BPO for very long, then cancelling, and doing the same for all slots) to prevent others to do the research on their BPOs and then be able to compete with them on the market.
There's lots of systems with next to nothing in them, both high sec and low sec. Just add some slots there. Heck, CCP complains about systems being overpopulated, but they keep putting in some few systems: all the best agents, lots of stations with lots of services, lots of research installations, etc.
As for Mikal Drey who said, from what I understood, that increasing the number of research slots (and hence help the competition for newcomers) would be bad for producers, well, at the moment it's very bad for researchers, and for producers who do their own research (lots of them). It's even next to impossible for a newcomer to get into the market, as he needs to wait over a month to start researching his BPO, and if he doesn't do it, he won't be able to compete with the prices made by those who have done those research before (most of them having done them when they had nothing to wait for...) When they introduced the new system for research labs, even in populated systems in populated regions, you could nearly always find a ME slot available, and when you were unlucky, you had to wait 2 days. Now in those systems, if you're lucky, you wait 30+ days, if unlucky it might be 45 days! Then you can go into low sec (do multiple jumps into lowsec, most likely without a covop if you're a specialized researcher / producer, with the risk being ganked and lose your precious BPO, either on the way in or on the way back), and wait *only* 15 days, woohoo! Now, on top of that discrepency, you have people who have no particular connections, or are in small corps, and then you have people with connections or are in big corps who have a POS in empire. The former have to wait those 40 days to start researching. The later have the POS lab slots at their disposal.
The effect is not much different from the artificial limitation on T2 items availability (through limited number of T2 BPOs): the rich get richer, the poor can't compete. The one already in place makes lots of money, the one who wants to compete shall first lose lots in order to make some. And it only hinders the casual and new player, favoring the hardcore and older player, while the newplayer usually also has the skill handicap. Not fair, silly, and boring if you ask me.
CCP should double the number of lab slots for ME, prolly add 50% for copying, and most likely increase as well the numbers for invention (we'll have again an artificial bottleneck here). I'd say put 3/4 of those you add in lowsec, 1/4 in high sec. If still not possible to get available slots into lowsec after that, add some more again.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:13:00 -
[10]
I have a little dubt: if I put a BPO in research and then leave the game, the research slot is blocked for the time I have payed for or it is blocked until I deliver the research?
Some one know for sure?
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Silack
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Posted - 2007.09.24 19:46:00 -
[11]
Hey all
Just a quickie, I have jst bought a POS with 6 labs on it and want to put 5 to good use the 6th is for me....What would be a good price for installation and price per hour (and I dont want to rip people of, but have to buy the fuel)
Many thanks in anticpation
Silack
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.24 20:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/04/2007 14:20:02 I have a little dubt: if I put a BPO in research and then leave the game, the research slot is blocked for the time I have payed for or it is blocked until I deliver the research?
Some one know for sure? resolved
Tested it on Sisi, after completing the research the slot is available even if the work isn't delivered.
Correct, it opens as soon as the work completes, even if you don't pick it up until later....
For the OP: Rent ME research through one of the multiple Empire-based research alliances like Empire Research. There are plenty of slots available going that route
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Senator Martin'Lefouret
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Posted - 2007.09.24 20:37:00 -
[13]
and let me remove you from another illusion while we are at it.
It's impossible to compete with the people who think that because they mined the minerals themselfs they are free
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.25 06:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Senator Martin'Lefouret and let me remove you from another illusion while we are at it.
It's impossible to compete with the people who think that because they mined the minerals themselfs they are free
Want another Senator?
Try competing with inventor that think that datacores are free because the R&D agents don't ask isk (they are the same people, BTW).
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.25 06:39:00 -
[15]
Use player driven Research services. Prices are low and no wait time.
Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site
Recruitment Looking for experienced players Looking for new EVE players
Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation
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Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.09.25 21:20:00 -
[16]
You are welcome to join my alliance.
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kimish
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Posted - 2007.09.25 22:09:00 -
[17]
fully support a increase in labs shouldn't be possible to run out of these in high sec, at least for those that are using only 1-3-5 of them at a time:S
well the aggro of it stopped me and a few friends from going that way. _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table." |
Nashtak
Gallente Neoteric War Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.09 04:17:00 -
[18]
I agree on the point that it has to be long to keep the market stable. I see this as a way to specialize myself in to the production of an item in particular. Researching to a high ME is not something that should be acquired as easily as boosting an item to +10 like in all those MMORPGS out there. At least, we can say that our limit is not limited to the game but to ourself and what we are willing to achieve.
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Nashtak
Gallente Neoteric War Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.09 04:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Trelennen Rather than starting a new thread, I'll up this thread which is only 1 month old.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Additionally, I noticed while removing a research job that when you do so, the research slot is not freed!. This is completely silly (and even more considering there's much need of more lab slots). The thing is, it's very much not unlikely that there's people exploiting that feature to artificially increase the wait time on those slots with very low cost (putting for research a very low cost T1 BPO for very long, then cancelling, and doing the same for all slots) to prevent others to do the research on their BPOs and then be able to compete with them
[...]
The effect is not much different from the artificial limitation on T2 items availability (through limited number of T2 BPOs): the rich get richer, the poor can't compete. The one already in place makes lots of money, the one who wants to compete shall first lose lots in order to make some. And it only hinders the casual and new player, favoring the hardcore and older player, while the newplayer usually also has the skill handicap. Not fair, silly, and boring if you ask me.
I agree that they should free a slot when a research is canceled. Your point is very interesting.
But i can`t totally agree with your point of view of how things work nowadays. What i mean is; yeah, the richer get richer and the poorer can`t compete but is it really a bad thing? This game has a really developped economics and industrials aspects, it even kind of looks like how things actually work in life. Newcomers have to start at the bottom and don`t expect to make good ISK if they are by themself... especially if they just started the game. They should team up and be part of a corporation where they could work in group and make much more ISK. This is how things work, in my point of view at least. A loner shouldn`t be able to be much of a threat to a corporation, especially if he`s a newcomer. New players should keep in mind that they are about to play a game with a lot of competitions in a really developped economical, industrial and political system. Well if they are taking that path at least...
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Tnilf
X.T.R The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:01:00 -
[20]
necro much?
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Ari Chu
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ari Chu on 09/12/2007 05:06:24 You missed a step in your chain of events:
The point where you purchased the character.
Been here since 2003 and just now realizing that wait times are ridiculous? I'm sure the limit on how long you can tie up a research slot was implemented exactly for the purpose of reducing the wait time... might even help - if players are forced to wait 30 days to only get 9ME, then they might be more willing to use other services, thereby reducing the demand for the publically available slot.... and having the end result of shorter wait times.
EDIT: not checking the dates of the posts FTL....
---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.12.09 10:41:00 -
[22]
Necro. Yum.
Research Alliances or highsec POS of your own ftw. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2007.12.09 14:50:00 -
[23]
NEED MORE AVAILABLE ME SLOTS PERIOD!
Long ME research time to manage production/ inflation maybe a necessary evil.. Currently I believe that relatively few people tie up many slots..
I remember a time when there were ME slots free everywhere ...2 years ago.
At least 20 Slots should be available to EVERY player at ANY station they choose that has proper facilities.
20 ME/PE/copy or invention at any NPC station.. no, not every NPC station Oh God! Im going to say it...
Sighh..JUST like any another skill..
Scenario: YAY!! I just trained (insert equally sarcastic title for skillbook)="Finally get to do some research in Empire and get a available slot for ME/PE/Invention/Copying" to lvl IV!!!
YAY!! I now have 4 free slots at any research station I choose. "CAN'T WAIT to finish "]Finally get to do ME research in Empire and get an available slot(s) for ME/PE/Invention/Copying" to lvl V".....
So I can train "Advanced ]Finally get to do ME research in Empire and get an available slot(s) for ME/PE/Invention/Copying"!!! And get another 1 slot per lvl!
Dont throw stuff at me all at once...Im getting too old to dodge! lol
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