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Jozhin Z Bazhin
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.06.24 08:30:45 -
[1] - Quote
I wonder how Eve would look like if the only way to make money is player interaction.
No bounty from NPC kill (loot is ok - we need meta modules)
Trade, mining, salvage player/NPC wrecks would be the only way to get ISK.
Incursions, ratting etc will be no big source of income (CONCORD LP store disabled, just as all CONCORD agents).
ISK will be of high demand, PLEX go down, ships prices go up (may be)?
What else? Will ppl tend to be more cautios to get engaged into PvP? or since looting enemy modules will be biggest source of quick money for non-traders charactrers fights will become much more common? Less PVE grinding more PvP shooting? |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
985
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Posted - 2016.06.24 08:52:57 -
[2] - Quote
All the Isk would disappear. The game would die.
Proud user of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
189
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Posted - 2016.06.24 09:28:37 -
[3] - Quote
In "full-sand-box-worlds" people need to make their own currency to make their deals, and make that currency to be trusted. Or just make it from something of high demand, like gold. But world there is under full control of people.
New Eden is just too complex: where are a lot of areas not controlled by capsuleers - goverments, planets, skill copies making - you name it. Capsuleers control only a tiny part of cluster's economy and trade.
There's no way to cut down any ISK-based interaction between capsuleers and all other world. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1116
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Posted - 2016.06.24 12:01:33 -
[4] - Quote
You would also have to remove all isk sinks. No more clone jump fees, market tax, insurance cost of pay out. However, even then isk would trickle out of the game as players stopped playing with wallets full. No prices would drop, they would all skyrocket as large groups/indivduals with already big wallets would horde supplies. I have no clue why you think plex prices would drop. People would buy as many as they could while they had isk causing prices to grow.
On the other hand, if you mean remove all isk and go to a better system, that would suck. Many societies started that way, but money made life easier. Most likely you would see someone like chribba create their own.currency based on an external market site. Those few sites would hold a monopoly and life would suck as they could control prices. |
Roci Nantes
Spongeworks Ltd. Snuggle Struggle.
9
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Posted - 2016.06.24 13:54:48 -
[5] - Quote
Well, for starters, did you know that governments inject and decrease money in their economies in real life? If there isn't a centralized way of doing this, it would become more of a barter system.
What is money without something to "define" it. Maybe I want your eyeballs as currency.. maybe my neighbor thinks his bad hat collection should be currency....
Without NPC isk, you end up with large bands of players forcing everyone to bend to how they want to play and new players having no way to get into the system. How do you get someone to pay for game where as soon as you log in someone comes and takes all your stuff and leaves you stranded somewhere with no ship, no money and no way to earn any of it.
People love to hurt other people, if you think anyone would behave long enough to establish anything, they wouldn't. |
Wanda Fayne
236
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:40:05 -
[6] - Quote
"Who runs BarterTown?"
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Trader20
Hedion University Amarr Empire
111
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:42:47 -
[7] - Quote
Eve Online meets Mad Max |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
927
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:45:17 -
[8] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:"Who runs BarterTown?"
Who ever controls the crossbows.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:46:03 -
[9] - Quote
I personally should be given the ability to generate isk. I can then feed it into the system at a responsible, controlled rate - to compensate for the lack of any other isk source in the game.
Foolproof plan - lets do it! |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
156
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:50:46 -
[10] - Quote
Jozhin Z Bazhin wrote:I wonder how Eve would look like if the only way to make money is player interaction.
No bounty from NPC kill (loot is ok - we need meta modules)
Trade, mining, salvage player/NPC wrecks would be the only way to get ISK.
Incursions, ratting etc will be no big source of income (CONCORD LP store disabled, just as all CONCORD agents).
ISK will be of high demand, PLEX go down, ships prices go up (may be)?
What else? Will ppl tend to be more cautios to get engaged into PvP? or since looting enemy modules will be biggest source of quick money for non-traders charactrers fights will become much more common? Less PVE grinding more PvP shooting?
Where would the ISK come from?
ALL ISK originated from an NPC one way or another (Insurance, Bounties, Mission Awards, Selling trade goods to NPC brokers).
If all NPC originated ISK were removed, then there would be no ISK.
. . .
Actually I take that back.
Each capsuleer starts with 5k ISK inheritance. The whole game would be either fighting for that 5k, or better yet, Alt farming just for the 5k would suddenly be lucrative even with a 24 hour bio-timer.
Ugh....
EvE, I swear...
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
927
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:51:40 -
[11] - Quote
@the op
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
156
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Posted - 2016.06.24 16:55:09 -
[12] - Quote
Any thread that can put in my head the voices of Tina Turner, Bill Murray AND a silent film actor.... is a WIN |
Xayder
Infinitum Cartel Stella Nova
361
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Posted - 2016.06.24 18:46:43 -
[13] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:All the Isk would disappear. The game would die.
The game is already dying since 6th of May 2003
I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2016.06.24 19:08:24 -
[14] - Quote
Xayder wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:All the Isk would disappear. The game would die.
The game is already dying since 6th of May 2003 Some deaths are faster/uglier than others. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1665
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Posted - 2016.06.24 19:20:53 -
[15] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:@the op
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
So pretty much my Facebook feed this morning with Brexit. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2016.06.24 19:45:06 -
[16] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Elenahina wrote:@the op
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria! So pretty much my Facebook feed this morning with Brexit. Please don't bring RL politics into the thread, it is against the forum rules. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12913
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Posted - 2016.06.24 19:54:40 -
[17] - Quote
Zidrine will become new currency.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1117
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Posted - 2016.06.24 19:57:21 -
[18] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Zydrine will become new currency.
No way....exotic dancers! |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
158
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:01:38 -
[19] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Zydrine will become new currency.
There's a thread somewhere about someone wanting to put EvE on the "Tritanium Standard".
I'd search for it, but my search-fu is limited to Siri.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Thomas Lot
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
27
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:12:07 -
[20] - Quote
There would still be PvE content if only for the Meta Modules.
Another suggestion would be to have NPC merchants that would buy the dropped PVE mods for Isk. This would set up another layer of competition for the meta drops and provide the Isk injection to the economy. CCP economists would have to balance NPC buy-back prices to keep the currency market from entering either stagnation or inflation.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
158
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:15:15 -
[21] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:There would still be PvE content if only for the Meta Modules.
Another suggestion would be to have NPC merchants that would buy the dropped PVE mods for Isk. This would set up another layer of competition for the meta drops and provide the Isk injection to the economy. CCP economists would have to balance NPC buy-back prices to keep the currency market from entering either stagnation or inflation.
Grey loot sold to merchants....
That's so Everquest.
--Gadget [100 IND] (Gadget's Workshop)
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17779
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:40:39 -
[22] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:All the Isk would disappear. The game would die.
Given the amount of ISk that is actually in game, I am not sure that's true at all, especially since the ISK sink flows are easily adjusted. If NPC ISK sinks other than skillbooks were removed, I am pretty sure the EVE economy could survive for the forseeable future (>decade) But it would be a totally different economy, and an utterly unrecognizable new player experience.
Although there might be some positives to the NPE - not being able to get any money other than by interecting with other players, if only through the market, might well have some plus sides.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
219
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:42:23 -
[23] - Quote
Given the majority of the playerbase are PvE-ers, not PvP-ers, changing the game to take away what they care about most would just drive them to quit, IMO. That leads to no PvE-ers to hunt, which leads the PvP-ers to quit as well. |
Pax Deltari
NPC Corp Worst Corp No Doubt
57
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:52:32 -
[24] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Given the majority of the playerbase are PvE-ers, not PvP-ers, changing the game to take away what they care about most would just drive them to quit, IMO. That leads to no PvE-ers to hunt, which leads the PvP-ers to quit as well.
Spoken like a true PvPr.
"What? There's no one left who doesn't shoot back? GG." |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
220
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Posted - 2016.06.24 21:29:06 -
[25] - Quote
Pax Deltari wrote:Spoken like a true PvPr.
"What? There's no one left who doesn't shoot back? GG."
Not really. I prefer fights. Most of my time is spend in LS/WHs. You don't go there assuming someone won't attack you. From someone who did excursively PvE for the first year and a half I played, if you aren't comfortable being the 'mouse' in a game of cat and mouse, PvE in EVE isn't for you. |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
319
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Posted - 2016.06.25 00:44:43 -
[26] - Quote
Yay! Allow me to say this about that. Unless you're talking a barter system (Yay Barter Town reference!):
You are talking a central government - immediately. Then you're talking a currency of some sort. Interstellar Kredits you say? Fine, I say. Who is the issuing authority? On what do they base the value of their units of currency? On what do they base their imperatives to issue currency (put it into circulation) or destroy currency (take it OUT of circulation)?
You see, these geniuses we have these days claiming to be smart enough to declare weeee don' neeed no steeenkeeng gumment fail to take this into account. If you don't do it this way, then anyone with a printer can manufacture whatever currency and call it whatever value suits them - all. So we'd ALL be kajillioinaires IF we could convince everyone else to believe what we say about OUR money. In a world of "trust no one" fat chance of THAT ever happening....though....we could hyp-mo-tize people.
Yeah....THAT'S the ticket...and my wife...Morgan Fairchild..... Ooops, anyway. Given the above circumstance the historic inclination is to revert to a barter system - SQUARE ONE.
So then what do we have? The authority prints money. Suddenly - COUNTERFEITERS! The authority has to store the money, and issue at regional locations - banks. Suddenly - BANK ROBBERS! So...before any of this happens POLICE FORCE, ENFORCEABLE LAWS (and the ever favorite) PRISONS!! YAY!!! (Getting the idea yet?)
Oh, but not just there. Now "lanes of commerce" count. Enforcement of sovereignty counts. Exterminating criminals counts.
First to go to secure this "economy" GANKERS! YAY! Or, traditionally, Pirates. Shot on sight. Summarily executed. And the Sovereign's NAVY leads the way! After all, it is a matter of "National Security".
Nah...I'm bettin' you don't want THAT much reality. You were thinkin' of something ELSE, RIGHT???
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
515
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Posted - 2016.06.25 04:13:17 -
[27] - Quote
Here's a crazy idea:
Eliminate bounties. This includes bounties received in missions, belt ratting, even Incursions.
Instead, give each account a basic income. Take the number of active accounts, divide the amount of ISK from the bounty faucet, and set that as the monthly income each account gets. (To prevent throwaway account abuse, only active accounts get any ISK, and it's 0 ISK for the first month of a new account, 20% for the second, etc. until 100% at the 6th month.)
Prices of items will stabilize at a point dependent upon the level of this monthly basic income. It probably means a price increase for most things, as I suspect the majority of players make less than that average, while a few, to 10%, 1%, whatever, make much more. At the same time as more accounts have more ISK than normal to throw around, some of those folks will cease doing their normal ISK-making activities, including putting the fruits of their efforts on the market, making the supply drop.
So how does one then make an above average income in EVE? You take/get ISK from other players. This is done by manufacturing things, providing services, scamming, cheating, stealing, acquiring and selling valuable loot, PI, moongoo, ore and minerals... It's done by interacting with other players at some level, not sticking a carrier semi-AFK in a sanctum. (I've done Incursions a bit, and that's actually fairly heavy on interacting with other players, to be honest.)
Anyway, this is such a drastic change to EVE, a potentially ruinous one, and will never ever be implemented due to the risk. But it'd certainly be fun to watch.
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
319
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Posted - 2016.06.25 06:28:20 -
[28] - Quote
And...my account is worth more than yours 'cause I've had it active longer and my toon has more SP, and a noob isn't worth the same monthly ... uh, stipend? wage? salary? as a bittervet like meseff. And...why would you give that guy an unfair advantage over me when I'm more deserving....
There's a reason why a few thousand years of trial and error has arrived us upon the economic models we have. There is another way to organize our enterprise, but if the object is to make "you" wealthy...oldest trick in the book.
You ain't in your wildest dreams gonna improve on it.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Tao Dolcino
EVE University Ivy League
443
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Posted - 2016.06.25 07:44:57 -
[29] - Quote
Let's not forget that we are in a game and that the goal is not to simulate a real economical model, but to have fun. As humans are all different, despite the endless attempts to "normalize" them through a world dictature, they have different ways to have fun. What i like in EVE is that everyone can find his own way and can be creative about it. You can be peaceful, warmonger, honest, scammer, lonesome, part of a huge alliance... and find a way to make enough money to fund your fun and your projects. There is no wrong way.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
102
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Posted - 2016.06.25 09:44:37 -
[30] - Quote
Every evoleved society has it's currency just for convenience even if it goes down to smokes as currency. Is just helps to find a fitting value for something. Try to buy a machariel with real item exchange (no ISK just modules, drugs etc) |
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