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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Bob Stuart
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Posted - 2007.03.06 12:57:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I've returned having left in 2005. EVE seems different, and I am still getting used to things, however I have noticed something.
I made 1.2 million ISK in just over 1 day, (10-12 hours game time?) through mining, 1/10 complexes and shooting belt rats.
This character is only 2 days old.
Last time I played, such things were not possible.
Is EVE easier for new players than before? Or is it just my previous experience that allowed me to make so much in so short a time? I remember last time out, how it felt so good to purchase a new frigate to get out of the rookieship, it felt a real achievement. So far, the only thing I have done that felt a real achievement is going belt rat hunting in 0.6, with an Atron fitted with 2 railguns, a civilian shield booster, and civilian armour repairer. That was fairly tough going, having to use the armour repairer several times, and with the optimal range of the railguns being 21km and the max targeting distance 22km, and the rats being able to do damage at 25km, it was quite exciting as well. In comparison, the 1/10 Serpentis drug outlets offered practically no resistance, and I was able to go to 9km range ammunition and hose them down. Just 2 rounds to kill 1 rat?
But given that I made so much in such a short time, why do people still complain that EVE is too hard to make money in? After only 1 day, I am faced with not being skilled enough to do what I want, rather than being skilled but unable to afford to do what I want.
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Sash Windu
Gallente The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:15:00 -
[2]
I seem to remember that at the end of the first mission arc I was given an implant that sold for a nice sum.
I spent my early days running level 1 missions, these gave about 50K each so 1.2M for 10-12 hours grind seems about right.
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Bob Stuart
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:24:00 -
[3]
I haven't actually got round to doing the introductory missions yet. Ive done the tutorial, and got told to go see a different agent from the tutorial one, but haven't done so yet.
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Bob Stuart
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:24:00 -
[4]
I haven't actually got round to doing the introductory missions yet. Ive done the tutorial, and got told to go see a different agent from the tutorial one, but haven't done so yet.
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Thu
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:28:00 -
[5]
Yes it has definitely gotten a lot easier for new people.
The tutorial does a decent job at showing you the main ins and outs. You start with enough skillpoints to actually do something worthwhile. You earn enough money to keep the motivation up with new toys every now and then. Those were all important points the new player experience was lacking back in the days.
There's still much to improve though. Agent mission descriptions are still not translated (a decent translation is extremely important), aswell as several important infos (stats on modules, etc). The jump in difficulty between some agent missions can be rather surprising (one mission a piece of cake, the next you're suddenly facing two cruisers in your little frig). A lot of pretty important info is not visible on first glance (like "how do I find characters", "how do I transfer money to somebody", "what's EM resistance", simple things like that).
What this game really needs is a decent wiki that's compatible with the ingame browser. Aura could then point newbies to that as a source of info when the tutorial is over.
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Thu
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:28:00 -
[6]
Yes it has definitely gotten a lot easier for new people.
The tutorial does a decent job at showing you the main ins and outs. You start with enough skillpoints to actually do something worthwhile. You earn enough money to keep the motivation up with new toys every now and then. Those were all important points the new player experience was lacking back in the days.
There's still much to improve though. Agent mission descriptions are still not translated (a decent translation is extremely important), aswell as several important infos (stats on modules, etc). The jump in difficulty between some agent missions can be rather surprising (one mission a piece of cake, the next you're suddenly facing two cruisers in your little frig). A lot of pretty important info is not visible on first glance (like "how do I find characters", "how do I transfer money to somebody", "what's EM resistance", simple things like that).
What this game really needs is a decent wiki that's compatible with the ingame browser. Aura could then point newbies to that as a source of info when the tutorial is over.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:39:00 -
[7]
EVE is radically easier for brand-new players nowadays as it was six months ago, let alone one year ago or even more.
First off, you are given the starting skills a new player used to have about one month down the road (you can even regard that as "free ISK" too, because you don't have to BUY your skillbooks anymore) and not only that, but also 6 "free" starter attribute points (in form of a L4 and a L2 attribute-boosting learning skill) on top of L1 learning, making for a much faster starter SP gain.
Second, even if you no longer get a "free" +1.0 standing for the faction you start as, the "rookie COSMOS" missions offer you a decent standing gain on top of a good deal of ISK, while still being entertaining and immersive at the same time, a good extension of the heavily buffed-up tutorial.
Third, most rewards are now ISK-only (including bonus), and lower-end named modules (in some cases) sell cheaper as the base T1 counterparts, so fiting your ship out is again easier as ever before.
And last but not the least important factor, all player ships went through multiple HP-buffs in the past two years, with a total HP roughly triple compared to how it used to be... while at the same time, "rats" (missions, belt, whatever) remaining at the SAME hitpoints as they were years ago, making NPC killing a trivial matter.
So yeah, EVE is orders of magnitudes easier nowadays as it used to be, even for a rookie pilot. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:46:00 -
[8]
Its easier for a newbie to make his first few mil ISK, for sure. But is that all there is?
'Success' in Eve is something that's mostly defined on your own terms. Some people play this game with little regard for isk - focusing more on fame, or making a mark on the political landscape as their criteria for success - arguably these things have become tougher as time goes by because so many more players are out there to compete with.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.06 14:24:00 -
[9]
OP: Check your skills. Some time ago it was decided that noobs had to little sp and they got an sp boost. Maybe you got a bost in mining skills and have more yield. Maybe you got a boost in gunnery and now can pop rats quicker. |
MasterEnt
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:24:00 -
[10]
HOLY CR*P YES IT IS!
I have been laying since beta. My main has never changed and I made 2 alts right after beta. Then a trashed one and made a new one about 6 months after.
Recently I trashed that one and just made this new alt about 3 days ago. With the additions and changes made, I decided to see how the new player experience was so I went ahead and did the whole thing from creation to doing a few lvl 1 missions right off the bat...
OMG YOU NOOBS HAVE NO IDEA HOW EASY YOU HAVE IT NOW!!!
And that is all I am going to say about that.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr SUBLIME L.L.C
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:34:00 -
[11]
The graduation papers you get from the tutorial hold missions, I did all 4 of them. 2 gave me implants worth 6 million each, I got a few other implants totalling some 3 million, so I made 15 million by following those missions alone. Someone told me this trick and it has paid off tremendously.
I have no grasp of how much 15 million is in the grand scheme of things but for now I'm pretty much set heh.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada I have no grasp of how much 15 million is in the grand scheme of things but for now I'm pretty much set heh.
For newbies of the days of old, more than they'd usually have at the end of the trial period after enough work. For old players, far less than a single hour of L4 highsec missioning or 0.0 ratting. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada The graduation papers you get from the tutorial hold missions, I did all 4 of them. 2 gave me implants worth 6 million each, I got a few other implants totalling some 3 million, so I made 15 million by following those missions alone. Someone told me this trick and it has paid off tremendously.
I have no grasp of how much 15 million is in the grand scheme of things but for now I'm pretty much set heh.
I didnt know that until last month. The tutorial missions are quite easy with T2 guns...
And i think new players can earn money faster, but if u dont know how to play the game its more confusing and therefore harder to understand than before. All the new things people talk about: salvaging, exploring, rigging... You can advance fast if u know the game. If u dont know u need to find out how to advance best first.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Thu What this game really needs is a decent wiki that's compatible with the ingame browser. Aura could then point newbies to that as a source of info when the tutorial is over.
There is a decent wiki that's compatible with the ingame browser. It's just not an official one.
There's occasional mutterings from Devs about CCP creating a wiki, but I'll believe that when I see it.
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Wheya
Amarr Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2007.03.06 18:33:00 -
[15]
It is so much easier to earn isk for new players, it's almost rediculous. Back in 2003 it was a major achievement to earn the isk for your first cruiser. I remember how hard I worked to be able to buy my first Bestower. I have paid 1.1 million for it at a time when missions were not at all rewarding, when the highest bounty for rats was 50k deep in 0.0, when trit had a value of 1 isk, when all you have had to earn isk was your civilian ming laser and your first investment was a t1 mining laser because named mining lasers were not affordable. Today I see one month old players earning enough isk with missions to pay their subcription fees with gtc they have bought with the isk they earn ingame. I admit this example is not the norm but gaining isk became very easy.
Today new players not only have by far more skillpoints right from the start, they also have the option to plug in implants and to train advanced learning skills. This makes advancements much easier.
Compared to the past t1 ships became much more powerfull. There was a time without powerfull ship bonuses in the very beginning. Level 4 combat missions? Once you needed high skills and some good and expensive equipment. I am talking about large 'accomodation' vestment reconstructor armor repairers which sold for 30m on escrow and modulated lasers for insane amounts of isk. Today you get even more powerfull t2 armor repairers and weapons for an rediculous low amount of isk compared to old times. On top of that there are rigs which are increasing the power of ships by a huge amount. A 2-3 month new player doing level 4 is nothing special anymore. In the past such a thing was impossible.
There was a time without insurance. When you have lost your ship everything was gone.
On top of that the new players do have a huge pool of knowledge given out by helpfull veterans or by reading the forum. Many corporations help their new members by handing out free ships.
But all this advantages come with a handicap: back in 2003 when I was a noob I have never met another player who could gank me with ease because he had 40m skillpoints more than me. This is why I don't have a problem with making it easier to replace losses. Those who think such ganking didn't happened in 2003 are wrong, though. This gank squads were the reason why we now have sentry guns at every gate and every station in empire space. Low sec space today is much more safe than it was in the beginning because a hostile single pilot was able to engage you everywhere. I am talking about a time when battleships had a very fast locking time that they could lock fregates. Today you are untouchable if you know what you are doing. I am missing the times when each jump had the risk to encounter a LONE pirate, when fighting was fun. Gank squads like those from mOo in mara/passari very early made the gameplay change to a 'win at all cost' mindset and to enforce the devs to implement overpowered concord and sentry guns. Now we have an environment where interdictors, tacklers, several gank ships are required to get a non-consensual 'fight' (which is longer a fight but a gank).
The game experience a new player has today in no way can be compared to the game experience you would have made in the very beginning when every single isk you earned was worth something and losses hurt much more. On one side it's sad to see so many things handed to new players on a silver plate on the other hand I can understand the reasons why.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.06 19:35:00 -
[16]
That one million isk is worth a LOT less than it used to be, according to the old timers.
I think, new players have it harder than ever.
Higher skills sure, but less unnocupied space/belts/rescources, more Empire ganks and griefs than ever before.
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Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.03.06 20:09:00 -
[17]
Easier by a massive amount, esp on the side of skills and skill learning. Free 800+k skillpoints, and advanced learning able when your basic learning is only at lvl4, this is a huge boost over training of old.
Add to that tier2 battlecruisers which are just as tough as battleships, the only reason to choose a battleship over a tier2 battlecruiser is simply Heavy NOS, remove that and battleships are pointless. Even ratting a battlecruiser does the same/similar damage to a battleship while rat hunting.
Probably countless more examples including your own example of ratting, but yer, EVE is by far easier now.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Dust Rocket
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Posted - 2007.03.06 20:54:00 -
[18]
1 Million isk is nothing.
Or maybe im spoiled i dunno. I wont make 6 jumps to make a million
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Agent6O
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Posted - 2007.03.06 21:22:00 -
[19]
Started playing at release in 2003. Allowing time to learn what the hell I had to do, losing ships to splash damage and getting podded by *****cat every other day, I earned about 3m in 3 months.
Do players have it easy? Sure they do, but I think we had a better game back then. |
sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.06 22:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Soporo That one million isk is worth a LOT less than it used to be, according to the old timers.
I think, new players have it harder than ever.
Higher skills sure, but less unnocupied space/belts/rescources, more Empire ganks and griefs than ever before.
things are actually cheaper not suprisngly, espially named items there was no tech 2 back then and all most coudl afford was tech 1 and even that was expensive, nowadays you can fit a ship with good named gear pretty cheap.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
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Nex Angelus
Caldari Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.03.06 23:18:00 -
[21]
[cartman voice]
Yes..Yes it is...
[/carman voice]
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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.07 00:11:00 -
[22]
Easier PVE, much harder PVP. Before, it wasn't odd to see people in cruisers and frigates in lowsec. Now I see people gate camping in Carriers with support fleet. Before, you could actually explore 0.0 without fear because nobody was there. Now, almost every system is claimed by someone. I guess it doesn't matter if you got into this game for the PVE, but to compete with Tech 2 or Capital ships on your first trip to lowsec is a little out of hand.
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Dao 2
Suicidal-Kushan-Pirates
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Posted - 2007.03.07 00:23:00 -
[23]
its way to ******* easy, the damn whiners need to shutup and go back to when i was damn happy to get 100k in my first 3 days (not talkin bout u op ;p) ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.03.07 04:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dao 2 its way to ******* easy, the damn whiners need to shutup and go back to when i was damn happy to get 100k in my first 3 days (not talkin bout u op ;p)
Just wanted to say that new players are smacked today more often, but now i see that using swear words and not having good manners was an issue in the beginning too...
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Gealbhan
Caldari The Big Sky Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.07 06:10:00 -
[25]
I think I'm past the newb phase now, 2 months in and almost 3mil SP. A real life buddy of mine has started playing now (I got him hooked) and I'm going to train him up and have him join our corp.
I did the full tutorial, listened to what vet. players told me and did a lot of reading about Eve. Which is probably why I advanced so quickly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium. |
Hiro Kazamatsuri
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Posted - 2007.03.07 15:12:00 -
[26]
I think it took me a month to see my wallet above the 1M (i felt so rich !) and perhaps 3 to get my first stabber in 2003.
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Kehmor
Caldari The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.07 15:20:00 -
[27]
it is much much easier
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Kunni Amar
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Posted - 2007.03.07 16:14:00 -
[28]
omg yes it is
when i startet back in 2003 i was playing up to 15 hours a day. and i got nowhere. i really had to work to get me a small industrial ship.
well when i startet 3 weeks ago again. i play max 5 hours a day. well on day 2 or 3 i bought me an industrial ship. and i think with one load full of veldspar i already had enough for the bigger industrial ship.
and back then you had almost no skills. Not much less skillpoints i think, but less skills, many on lvl 4 and some lvl 5. but now you got about 40 skills i think.
its really much easier and its good that way :) this way when i got ganked the first week and lost my cruiser i just laughed and got me a new one.
back in 2003 i would have been crying i guess^^
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PhalHell
Minmatar Rome SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.07 16:34:00 -
[29]
I remember ratting in .4 system earning 500k per 4 hours including refining the loot. It took me 4 months to get my first Apoc and, Oh God, the insurance hurted even more.
Once in 0.0 things went faster, but still it took me 18 months for my first Billion. Today I make a billion in 24 hours playtime just by trading.
If I want something the limitations are my skills, not money.
The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my corps, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary.
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.07 16:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: MrTripps on 07/03/2007 16:47:28 Back when I was a noob we had to get out and push our own ships. Uphill. Both ways. We had to kill NPCs with spears and give our agents foot rubs. We had to mine by gnawing on veldspar with our teeth! The wipper snappers don't know how good they have it.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
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