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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
103
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Posted - 2016.07.08 07:43:53 -
[1] - Quote
- Restricted to battleship hulls
- Mid slot module
- 3k+ pwg, 150+ cpu
- 2.5 ly range before skills
With high enough fitting requirements it will force battleships to choose between a real offense and a real defense. After accounting for tank+weapons, the power projection of a jumping bs should be substantial yet clearly inferior to a black ops battleship.
You could drop a HAW moros, sure. 15 gimped megathrons is cheaper and, arguably, more fun. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1295
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Posted - 2016.07.08 11:27:31 -
[2] - Quote
That's what black ops are for. They even have a fuel bay for jumping around. But they are on the rebalance radar.
So far we are idle waiting for the rebalance thread to surprise us.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2867
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Posted - 2016.07.08 12:02:55 -
[3] - Quote
There are things that need one so much more than blops. At the very least ccplease don't break your most balanced class
Citadel worm hole tax
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4520
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Posted - 2016.07.08 13:23:18 -
[4] - Quote
Just titan bridge the ******* things. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
306
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Posted - 2016.07.08 13:48:23 -
[5] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:[list]You could drop a HAW moros, sure. 15 gimped megathrons is cheaper and, arguably, more fun.
How is taking advantage of a jump drive on any battleship, then immediately refitting w/ a nestor/cap/depot/whatever to your PvP fit gimping anything? |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
103
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Posted - 2016.07.08 16:51:20 -
[6] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:[list]You could drop a HAW moros, sure. 15 gimped megathrons is cheaper and, arguably, more fun. How is taking advantage of a jump drive on any battleship, then immediately refitting w/ a nestor/cap/depot/whatever to your PvP fit gimping anything? A good point. I figured there was probably a glaring weakness here, but I was too tired to really think about it. |
Cade Windstalker
477
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Posted - 2016.07.08 18:21:32 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:There are things that need one so much more than blops. At the very least ccplease don't break your most balanced class
You mean those 1 bil hulls that could be functionally replaced in most situations by a deployable structure that makes Cov-Ops Jump Bridges? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1297
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Posted - 2016.07.08 22:28:07 -
[8] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:There are things that need one so much more than blops. At the very least ccplease don't break your most balanced class You mean those 1 bil hulls that could be functionally replaced in most situations by a deployable structure that makes Cov-Ops Jump Bridges?
Hey just out of curiosity, where can I get a black ops for 250m isk?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3378
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Posted - 2016.07.08 22:40:07 -
[9] - Quote
Refer to previous weeks BS threads for what BS actually need more than jump drives. |
Persephone IX
Symbolic.
5
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Posted - 2016.07.08 23:02:38 -
[10] - Quote
Probably unfeasible as a module or a rig. Either embed jump drive within the hull or don't go for it at all. If you want to keep jump drive a privilege for T2 ships, so be it, still, a very limited range jump drive would give the BS class some added versatility. 2-2.5 ly max range, jump calibration included. That renders the Battleship a very localized jump capable asset. So you will have 2.5ly for BS, 5ly for caps and 8ly for T2 BS variants. Extra fatigue could be added to minimize repetitive use.
Supplise cyno is a go!!!
CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4520
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Posted - 2016.07.08 23:03:51 -
[11] - Quote
Persephone IX wrote:Probably unfeasible as a module or a rig. Either embed jump drive within the hull or don't go for it at all. If you want to keep jump drive a privilege for T2 ships, so be it, still, a very limited range jump drive would give the BS class some added versatility. 2-2.5 ly max range, jump calibration included. That renders the Battleship a very localized jump capable asset. So you will have 2.5ly for BS, 5ly for caps and 8ly for T2 BS variants. Extra fatigue could be added to minimize repetitive use.
Supplise cyno is a go!!!
But why would you ever do this when titan bridges exist? |
Persephone IX
Symbolic.
5
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Posted - 2016.07.08 23:54:02 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Persephone IX wrote:Probably unfeasible as a module or a rig. Either embed jump drive within the hull or don't go for it at all. If you want to keep jump drive a privilege for T2 ships, so be it, still, a very limited range jump drive would give the BS class some added versatility. 2-2.5 ly max range, jump calibration included. That renders the Battleship a very localized jump capable asset. So you will have 2.5ly for BS, 5ly for caps and 8ly for T2 BS variants. Extra fatigue could be added to minimize repetitive use.
Supplise cyno is a go!!! But why would you ever do this when titan bridges exist?
Fair enough, not everyone has the privilege of a titan. Not that the titan will ever become obsolete, its has a monopoly on bridging subcaps (comes with the pricetag). But unless you have access to a tit, your options are fairly limited. New players will get a taste of the awesome in a more affordable way. High sec people will try to get even with low sec piwates == moar kms. New opportunities to kill null sec bears will arise, especially if moving through wormholes. Dispatch scouts, make sure you are within jump range, get in and jump from an adjacent system!
Last but not least, since ccp has insisted in keeping range at a very local level and limit projection by reducing ly, a jump capable BS would move within the same lines, this time expanding that already limited projection in a different way. BS's are not agile, they move slow and warp even slower. Any attempt to alter bs stats via rigging or fitting will make it less resilient. No wonder why people opt for t2s and t3s. they got all the traits a BS is missing, agility, velocity, buffer and resistances, all at the same time (again , comes with the price tag), just less dps, hence they hunt in packs. Unless you drop with a titan, it is hopelessly impossible to do that with the BS class. Thats where the JD comes into play.
Jump capability on the BS class is currently reserved for T2 ships. And im pretty ok with it, black ops are probably the most successful ships in the game, but part of that success comes from their specialty traits as t2 class vessels, increased jump range, fatigue bonus, utility slots ans cloak bonus. Remove or severely limit those traits, and black ops wont be as usable or successful as they are today. A BS will be no much for a Black ops in terms of versatility and projection potential. But a limited option will be on the table, to be used as people see fit.
CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
103
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Posted - 2016.07.09 04:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Persephone IX wrote:Probably unfeasible as a module or a rig. Either embed jump drive within the hull or don't go for it at all. If you want to keep jump drive a privilege for T2 ships, so be it, still, a very limited range jump drive would give the BS class some added versatility. 2-2.5 ly max range, jump calibration included. That renders the Battleship a very localized jump capable asset. So you will have 2.5ly for BS, 5ly for caps and 8ly for T2 BS variants. Extra fatigue could be added to minimize repetitive use.
Supplise cyno is a go!!! But why would you ever do this when titan bridges exist? Maybe the titan pilot is still pissed at you for changing the pos password and launching his fatass halfway across the system? Maybe your only titan died horribly a week ago or you just don't have one. Maybe you've slowboated your gang 8 jumps out mid roam and scout calls out tackle on a carrier (cuz carriers can't pop them anymore).
Why use a screwdriver when you can use a drill? |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4521
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Posted - 2016.07.09 11:44:12 -
[14] - Quote
You're acting like this would ever be an option.
Go here: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump
Set it to a carrier with JDC to 0
Now put in some locations. You get one, MAYBE two systems of range. What's the point? What possible use is this thing ever going to be?
How is this an option for newbros to learn anything, when they could instead use a stealth bomber for 10% of the price at four times the range?
What is this supposed to do to revitalise the battleship as a class? You'd travel faster by gate anyway once you factor in the jump reactivation timer, you still die to bombers in null, T3cs still tank and shoot at least as hard as your BS. It's just a gimmick that does nothing whatsoever about the actual problems the class has.
And sitting bull? If you're eight jumps out and have a 2.5 LY jump drive, you're going to have to slowboat six jumps to get in range anyway. By which time the fighters will have mulched your tackle with ease. (I tested it myself, an MWDing interceptor still died to my regular T1 fighters.) |
Persephone IX
Symbolic.
6
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Posted - 2016.07.09 13:47:59 -
[15] - Quote
Yes, they can use steath bombers, sure, but not in lowsec with gates gun. Newbros can learn to tackle n drop targets by themselves. They wont have to rely on others to provide bridges. They will use SBs for their alliance operations. Baiting a target and supplising him is something newbros will find very interesting. And battleship class buffer does allow for a couple of mistakes during a fight, Stealth bombers do not.
As I said, you can keep JD for t2 classes, but since CCP made BS's slow, in and out of warp, room for maneuvering around the whole class is slim. 2.5 ly doesn't interfere with black ops, regular bs's will command a small niche market. Dropping hospital Domis and neuting Geddons will be a hard nut to crack. :D I think newbros will enjoy this alot. I can see the title already. ProviBloc strikes back . lel
CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
909
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Posted - 2016.07.09 15:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Persephone IX wrote: Newbros can learn to tackle n drop targets by themselves. They wont have to rely on others to provide bridges. They will use SBs for their alliance operations. Baiting a target and supplising him is something newbros will find very interesting. And battleship class buffer does allow for a couple of mistakes during a fight, Stealth bombers do not. Since I am not a cap ship pilot I was going to stay out of this one but these comments turned the tide. News flash for you sweetheart but "new bros" as you call them do not like being bait at least not any of the ones I have talked to since I started in 2009. New players want in on the real action which outside of high sec means killing stuff not being offered up as the sacrificial lamb for slaughter.
Most true new players are not going to have the wallet balances to risk jump capable ships trying to learn a tactic unless they have aide somewhere or some how, you know things like ship replacement programs or a rich space uncle that just sends them ISK for the fun of it.
And setting any and all other things aside a drop is essentially the same as a bomb run and there are many different ways it can be done, but only one way that is right for the group and FC you are flying with. The best way for new players to learn to hot drop is with a group that has experience in making it work, a group where there is some form of assistance for replacing lost ships.
In the end I agree with others here the BS class needs help but giving them a nerfed to hell jump drive is not what they need.
Looking at the titan specifically perhaps it is time that CCP refunds current ISK costs or materials used in their construction and then eliminate them from the game. As you noted the costs of a titan are such that many groups cannot afford on and there bridging ability potentially makes them to powerful especially when CCP is attempting to re-balance the game to give smaller groups a better chance to survive in nul sec and to dare I say it actually challenge in some significant way the larger blocks.
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Persephone IX
Symbolic.
6
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Posted - 2016.07.09 16:16:46 -
[17] - Quote
I think you missed the whole point, or probably talking to the wrong bros. Newbros are fantastic in baiting others (no killboard), I've seen a lot of new people willing to bait, its thrilling and something new for them. A good bait accounts for 50% of the effort to get a kill.
High sec people could bait a low sec piwate and drop him with Battleships 2-3 jumps out, the very same way they could drop bombers and t3s-Recons via Covert portal. Essentially its the same things. Someone will generate content for the new people, teaching them the ropes, and then they will generate content for themselves, if they want to, or got what it takes. Action is everywhere, you just need to know how to grab it. And a T1 hull costs far less than a BlackOps or a T3 hull, making it a cost effective tool. But ability comes with a pricetag, and the Battleship tag can only allow that much.
2.5 ly was just a reference, it can start that way and if necessary go up to 4 ly. Obviously it will take alot of testing to find the best compromise. Maybe CCP will have to adjust capital projection a bit higher. So you will get BS < Capital < BlackOps < JF (4-6-8-10ly)
CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
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