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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5066
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Posted - 2016.08.03 18:24:01 -
[901] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:
You create no content.
You simply play your char as anyone else does.
Back in 2012 my corp shut down all caldari ice mining in highsec for a month, caused a huge spike in caldari ice prices and everything associated with it. We killed something like 600 barges and went through over 1000 gank ships. So in that month we provided content all across caldari space, for all miners in it, content for people trying to defend them, content for ship, ammo and mod producers, content for people playing the market and impacted people from the lowly miner in highsec to the titan pilot in null who ended up paying out the nose for their fuel. All from 30 people in a single corp. Just one man was responsible for the battle of Asakai, so yes we do infact make the content. You simply played a game. Many things happens in any mmo around, you took note and now you say to others, nothing more nothing less...
Yes, played a game and made content for others. When one person makes a mistake it provides an opportunity for others in the game to take advantage of it. I went on lots of fleets and got lots of killmails because of all the nonsense between the Imperium and IWantIsk. Their pissing match provided things for me to do when I logged in. Heck, I even logged in more frequently.
Players create content in Eve.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
551
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Posted - 2016.08.03 18:25:09 -
[902] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: It also failed in its primary goal, the mod is still a must have on everything that fitted them before. Not only that but the protection offered by it is slightly improved on the T2 and greatly improved with the faction variants. So in the end they are more must have than before and ships like the Anshar suddenly got the tank of another freighter dumped onto its already massive tank for no reason (it couldn't even fit a DCU). It was a terrible change and a prime example of why blanket buffs/nerfs are a terrible idea when it comes to ship balance.
I for one changed my fitting habits when that DCU change hit.
But on topic of freighters (because we really can't seem to talk about anything else these days), the EHP is still lower than an Orca and considerably lower than a capital ship. Yet it IS a capital ship.
Both you and Drac sure cry a lot so I'm thinking everything is fine in EvE. "back in the good old days my 2 mil destroyer could elite PvP a 260 mil exhumer in under 20 sec" -- surely you have to realise how entitled that sounds? Oh gosh, darn, look at all these nerfs! We need an additional alt to keep an unconsequential point on a capital ship. And they improved the tank on said capital ship to double that of a battleship to boot, yipes! People are even complaining about us exploitlooting without suspect flag. Does nobody think of us poor gankers? We barely turn a profit anymore even though we can still afford to shoot empty triple bulkhead freighters for lulz.
I smell entitlement boys. All this has been studies extensively, corrective measures were taken. You cannot adjust balance between two opposing sides without affecting the gameplay for either one. What happened to "adapt or die"? Bears have adapted: they fit their bulkheads, most don't AFK, they'll fly tank over yield... this is what you wanted, no?
You can now reap the rewards of your efforts by stripmining highsec in high-yield Hulks, and blowing up the competition when they dare to swap their skiffs and procurers back to macks. By forcing everyone to fly triple bulkhead freighters, you could turn a tidy profit by hauling more cargo faster in expanded hold fit warp speed accelerated freighters. ... or you can just keep harping on about how everyone flies tanky barges nowadays. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
385
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Posted - 2016.08.03 18:30:47 -
[903] - Quote
TBH I think they should just give freighters slots like every other ship. Even the Bowhead has slots - and it is a freighter.
Would also finally allow all of the races of freighters to use their racial bonuses - instead of only the gallente.
Only big balance problem of course is the ****ing amarr and their slave implants + armor....But welcome to EVE? give them less cargo space to counter it, and enough low-slots to get the cargo back if they nerf their armor.
Not going to propose it as an actual change though - because I know nobody would go for that one |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5066
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Posted - 2016.08.03 18:32:26 -
[904] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
When I was playing WoW there were assault to other faction Capitals, big Pvp groups, zones that were places for battles and so on.
When I was playing ultima online it was the same.
The same here.
Every game with players playing together has what you call content as something unique to Eve, it's not at all.
It's players interacting, nothing else.
The wars are not a CCP provided mechanic as in WoW. They just happen and can take on a variety of forms and it is not just a temporary bit of destruction that once done nobody notices. In EVE it can be permanent. Have you looked at the sov map at all? They change, in fact there is a video on youtube of Verite's sov map over time which is very interesting to watch. Players make all sorts of agreements that you never see in a game like WoW. OTEC, B0tlord, etc. Alliances between coalitions ebb and flow over time.
Does CODE. make content for me? Probably. I do invention and I have no idea how many, if any, of all the light neutron blaster IIs my invention alts have produced have ended up on a CODE. catalyst. And even if none of them did, the fact that those CODE. catalysts end up getting killed by CONCORD means it effects the market....which effects my invention business.
And by the same token my invention activity effects CODE. and even those they gank. By adding to the market I help ensure that the market for light neutron blaster IIs is thick--i.e. there are lots of them for CODE. and others to buy.
Just because you are unaware of these things and do not want to learn about them does not mean they do not exist.
So yeah, players are the primary content generators in this game. And yeah, I simply play a game...and help generate content.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7866
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Posted - 2016.08.03 18:47:37 -
[905] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I would use RvB as an example of creating content.
What they do is not something deliberately written in by CCP, but they did make the tools that make this content possible. And I call it Content because it's something bigger than just basic player interaction.
RVB has structure, longevity, and can be joined by anyone that's willing to follow the structure.
They took a kernel of an idea, - that in any other game would be considered content created by the devs - and using the existing rule set, created an EvE version of said content. They created a new way to play EvE that others can join in.
That's content.
--Gadget
RvB was a kill-harvesting scam.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2257
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:13:50 -
[906] - Quote
It's strange how eve player think they create content by simply playing the game. Maybe it's just a lack of vocabulary...
Players creat actions, activities or opportunities but not content. The only people who greate content in EVE are the developers.
For me it is important to make the distinction because I have just cancelled my subscription and was asked to give a reason why - I selected "lack of content". This is not me saying there are not enough players doing things in game, it is me saying "I am bored with what CCP has put in the game".
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
306
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:18:35 -
[907] - Quote
For what, Facebook likes?
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
390
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:22:29 -
[908] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It's strange how eve player think they create content by simply playing the game. Maybe it's just a lack of vocabulary...
Players creat actions, activities or opportunities but not content. The only people who greate content in EVE are the developers.
For me it is important to make the distinction because I have just cancelled my subscription and was asked to give a reason why - I selected "lack of content". This is not me saying there are not enough players doing things in game, it is me saying "I am bored with what CCP has put in the game".
That's a very narrow definition of "content" that you follow.
In my mind, that's like discontinuing your subscription to a newspaper because the news isn't interesting.
KB
Dum Spiro Spero
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
386
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:22:45 -
[909] - Quote
Anyone else starting to feel like the word "content" is losing all meaning or relation to reality just because of how often both sides of this argument like to throw it around these days? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17795
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:25:20 -
[910] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Both you and Drac sure cry a lot so I'm thinking everything is fine in EvE. "back in the good old days my 2 mil destroyer could elite PvP a 260 mil exhumer in under 20 sec" -- surely you have to realise how entitled that sounds?
That same catalyst will solo any 250 mil t2 or t3 cruiser. The one and only reason it worked was because miners fitted no tank at all. |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:31:30 -
[911] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Both you and Drac sure cry a lot so I'm thinking everything is fine in EvE. "back in the good old days my 2 mil destroyer could elite PvP a 260 mil exhumer in under 20 sec" -- surely you have to realise how entitled that sounds?
That same catalyst will solo any 250 mil t2 or t3 cruiser. The one and only reason it worked was because miners fitted no tank at all. LOL? Solo a recon, a HAC or even a T3 cruiser in a catalyst?? Dude. Please. You can't even solo a Rupture with it. Now scoot. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17795
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:32:09 -
[912] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote: LOL? Solo a recon, a HAC or even a T3 cruiser in a catalyst?? Dude. Please. You can't even solo a Rupture with it. Now scoot.
Fit them like miners fitted their ships and you will. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:38:17 -
[913] - Quote
Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true.
Back then.
If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5066
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:41:15 -
[914] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Players creat actions, activities or opportunities but not content.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5066
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:42:14 -
[915] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir!
There are lots of miners fitting no tank nor paying attention.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
307
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:42:48 -
[916] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Anyone else starting to feel like the word "content" is losing all meaning or relation to reality just because of how often both sides of this argument like to throw it around these days?
Actually, I don't think it's losing its meaning. We all assign a different meaning to what "content" is.
We might need to decide what content officially is for EvE, or at least come to some agreement.
CCP, CSM... make it happen
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17796
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:49:07 -
[917] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir!
Thats the funny thing. If you slap t2 mods onto just about any sub battleship hull, no tank mods and slip in a few cargo expanders then you will turn a profit killing them. Barges are the exception to the rule. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:49:36 -
[918] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! There are lots of miners fitting no tank nor paying attention.
Then shoot them. With my blessings- godspeed! Working as intended, that.
This, however, is taking us away from the "CCP is fitting their ships for them" complaint or the "but they keep nerfing my playstyle". Are you telling me the targets are still there and therefore that playstyle is still valid? Then we are in agreement. Nothing to see here, move along. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17796
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:54:33 -
[919] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Then shoot them. With my blessings- godspeed! Working as intended, that.
This, however, is taking us away from the "CCP is fitting their ships for them" complaint or the "but they keep nerfing my playstyle". Are you telling me the targets are still there and therefore that playstyle is still valid? Then we are in agreement. Nothing to see here, move along.
Even unfitted with zero skills the skiff gets 1.6k less EHP than a Scorpion and it will hit just a little less yield than the hulk can. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
386
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:56:35 -
[920] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Anyone else starting to feel like the word "content" is losing all meaning or relation to reality just because of how often both sides of this argument like to throw it around these days? Actually, I don't think it's losing its meaning. We all assign a different meaning to what "content" is. We might need to decide what content officially is for EvE, or at least come to some agreement. CCP, CSM... make it happen --Gadget Well, I mean....as a word it has meaning...
But I'm not sure anybody throwing it around here really knows the meaning...
On the one hand - obviously everything *in* the game is the literal *content* of the game - and this naturally includes everything done by every player at any time....So it is ridiculous to state that things players do don't "create content"....
But on the other hand....*everything* that *every* player does is the literal content of the game... That doesn't make it *good* content or *meaningful* content. I mean **** the afk miners chewing their asteroids are still "creating content" in a very literal sense...it is just dull, boring, meaningless content... So acting like you are some special snowflake by "creating content" in whatever unique way you do so is equally ridiculous...
It is just a word... A very broad, generic word... It doesn't have the deep meaning that people seem to assign to it...
And over-use is generally bad for any word in this context. People try to replace the actual meaning of the word with their perceived/desired deeper/alternate meaning... And it makes it hard for people not intimately familiar with the ongoing discussion to understand what they are saying (and that is before you even consider that many of the people don't even use English as their primary language)...
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:57:00 -
[921] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! Thats the funny thing. If you slap t2 mods onto just about any sub battleship hull, no tank mods and slip in a few cargo expanders then you will turn a profit killing them. Barges are the exception to the rule.
How do you figure? I take a Hurricane and fit it with 220mm vulcans, scram/web and a 50Mn AB. Damage control, gyrostab, tracking enhancer, the rest in cargo expanders.
Provided you manage to blow me up (which you won't by the way), and half of that drops. You then have 3 cannons, a web and a gyrostab. This is profit to you?
(yes, I took a hurricane for example, as barges are twice as expensive as cruisers. So I took the least tanky higher-up. The case for a Brutix is even more ridiculous and you won't kill that one either by the way.)
I'm trying but I feel like we keep going off on tangents. It's almost like I hear your words but I don't hear what you're saying. Think I'll leave you guys discuss away although I don't understand what any of this has to do with "Every year there are less users playing". I'll stop contradicting you at every turn and just yet you have your say- true or not, is up to everyone is his own right to decide. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
307
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Posted - 2016.08.03 19:58:33 -
[922] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Well, I mean....as a word it has meaning... But I'm not sure anybody throwing it around here really knows the meaning... On the one hand - obviously everything *in* the game is the literal *content* of the game - and this naturally includes everything done by every player at any time....So it is ridiculous to state that things players do don't "create content".... But on the other hand....*everything* that *every* player does is the literal content of the game... That doesn't make it *good* content or *meaningful* content. I mean **** the afk miners chewing their asteroids are still "creating content" in a very literal sense...it is just dull, boring, meaningless content... So acting like you are some special snowflake by "creating content" in whatever unique way you do so is equally ridiculous... It is just a word... A very broad, generic word... It doesn't have the deep meaning that people seem to assign to it... And over-use is generally bad for any word in this context. People try to replace the actual meaning of the word with their perceived/desired deeper/alternate meaning... And it makes it hard for people not intimately familiar with the ongoing discussion to understand what they are saying (and that is before you even consider that many of the people don't even use English as their primary language)...
Nah. "Content" is now game jargon. We just need to define this piece of jargon for EvE.
Y'know, like bubbles in EvE have nothing to do with bubblegum.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
66
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:03:17 -
[923] - Quote
I checked in on this thread when it was only a few pages long and was disappointed that it had not yet descended into "gankers are killing EVE!!1 abloo, abloo bloo"
I'm glad to see that this thread has matured. |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2257
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:05:12 -
[924] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Rek Seven wrote:It's strange how eve player think they create content by simply playing the game. Maybe it's just a lack of vocabulary...
Players creat actions, activities or opportunities but not content. The only people who greate content in EVE are the developers.
For me it is important to make the distinction because I have just cancelled my subscription and was asked to give a reason why - I selected "lack of content". This is not me saying there are not enough players doing things in game, it is me saying "I am bored with what CCP has put in the game".
That's a very narrow definition of "content" that you follow. In my mind, that's like discontinuing your subscription to a newspaper because the news isn't interesting. KB
Not really, it's just being specific and sticking with what the gaming industry has considers what game content is, for several years now.
DLC (downloadable content) and content expansions are stuff the developers add to the game. Players simply use/interact with that content, they are not content creators. The closest thing to content creation in Eve is the development of third party apps.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
307
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:07:24 -
[925] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:I checked in on this thread when it was only a few pages long and was disappointed that it had not yet descended into "gankers are killing EVE!!1 abloo, abloo bloo"
I'm glad to see that this thread has matured.
Try about page 20 or so.
It's gone there... and past.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17796
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:21:38 -
[926] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote: How do you figure? I take a Hurricane and fit it with 220mm vulcans, scram/web and a 50Mn AB. Damage control, gyrostab, tracking enhancer, the rest in cargo expanders.
Using 2x cheap catalysts off the top of my head should net 2-3 mil potential profit.
Star of the show however is the gank nado, 60 mil in potential drops and it requires roughly 6.7k damage to kill it. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2087
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:22:32 -
[927] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:I checked in on this thread when it was only a few pages long and was disappointed that it had not yet descended into "gankers are killing EVE!!1 abloo, abloo bloo"
I'm glad to see that this thread has matured.
Actually its not what I was saying mate, I was talking about he lack of balance with gankers making it so casual hisec get fed up and leave the game. There will still be people like you running around. Will be interesting to see just how the "content" develops when it is only players like you. Will be damn funny to watch actually...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5066
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 20:22:52 -
[928] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! There are lots of miners fitting no tank nor paying attention. Then shoot them. With my blessings- godspeed! Working as intended, that. This, however, is taking us away from the "CCP is fitting their ships for them" complaint or the "but they keep nerfing my playstyle". Are you telling me the targets are still there and therefore that playstyle is still valid? Then we are in agreement. Nothing to see here, move along.
It is very hard to make a profit ganking miners who fit their ships badly. CCP has basically buffed mining. Mining ships still get ganked, but more for laughs or to get entrance to a ganking group.
Edit: T2 mining ships that is. Not sure about retrievers.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2088
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Posted - 2016.08.03 20:27:00 -
[929] - Quote
The silly thing is that CCP said it was not their intent that people who ganked would make a profit from ganking any T2 fit ship and it would be only if they wanted to kill someone for reasons.
The profit has to come from cargo and from bling fitting. That is their decision on game balance, and something they have got right. Well done CCP...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17797
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 20:29:19 -
[930] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Edit: T2 mining ships that is. Not sure about retrievers.
Its a ship best avoided, fitting room is basically nothing, 3 lows, one mid and two highs gives you zero options in fitting it. As I said, CCP have already fitted it for you. |
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