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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17805
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Posted - 2016.08.04 17:27:52 -
[1051] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote: Maybe Eve was intended as a sandbox, but it is not (especially for a new player). I looked on the recruitment forum to find a corp to join, that is in a WH/null. What do I find? Logi/mining ship/bait frigate skills for null, 20 mill SP for WH. Is that an open world/go wherever/do whatever you want environment? Hardly so!
Join Pandemic Hoard, Karmafleet or Brave.
Dedicated organisations that help newbies be less bad at EVE. I also hear Dreddit is recruiting. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
230
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 17:28:05 -
[1052] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote:For a long time I wanted to play Eve being misinformed about it. If I would have known who the major part of the playerbase is, I would have not payed for a one year subscription. From what I can tell it's only a minor part of the playerbase that is like this, it is however a very loud and visible one (especially in highsec).
If you don't like the PVE elements of the game, don't do them. They don't get more interresting with more SP, only easier and/or more profitable.
My advice would be: get out of Highsec! Look for a newbie friendly corp in *any* other part of space that puts its emphasis on PVP and not PVE. People in other parts of the game, regardless if it's lowsec, nullsec or WH space, are usually much more friendly towards other players on a social level (which doesn't mean that they won't blow up your ship but that doesn't seem to be your primary concern). Highsec is a cesspool of griefers/gankers/scammers/etc. Many regular players there won't even talk in local out of fear for them. Why CCP puts its new players there is quite honestly beyond me.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5074
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 17:33:56 -
[1053] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Rek Seven wrote:You really don't get it though and are just picking spinets of what i said to support your argument. You have started a new argument here by saying it is ok to uses a general word to replace a specific one. That was what the fruit and water analogies were about. My main point is that playing a game is not game content. End of. Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Players swim in water, but do not add water! The only people who add water in EVE are the developers.
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? And why people take offence at it? I did sound ridiculous because you misunderstood what i was saying... So i fixed it for you.
Seriously?
You sound just...well...the polite word is muddled I guess.
Taking your "fixed" sentence.
Quote:Players swim in water, but do not add water! The only people who add water in EVE are the developers.
So, now I'll use your analogy.
Yes, so CCP adds water. Fine. Can we all agree on that? This is a yes/no question. CCP adds water and in doing so gives us content. An alternative is, CCP adds sand to the sandbox. Now, that does provide content. After all in a swimming pool with water you can, sticking with the analogy, swim laps. Of course, while swimming laps can be good for you, after awhile it can get boring.
So the swimmers decide to play a game in the pool, a game CCP did not intend them to play, but at the same time does not intend to stop. So the players play Marco Polo. Later the swimmers decide to have races, another thing CCP did not intend, but won't stop.
In short, players are taking what CCP gave them and are doing things to amuse themselves.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 17:39:07 -
[1054] - Quote
It is interesting, looking at prices of modern mining items...
While every other ship type and module type in EVE has been getting more expensive... the mining ships/equipment have actually gone *down* in price pretty noticeably in the past few years.
I wonder if this is an over-reaction by the industrial section of the game trying to compensate for the perception that tons of miners are being ganked - so they are going to need new ships/gear?
I don't have a way to track it, and CCP doesn't care enough, but it would be interesting to find out.
It would be ironic if all the ganking these past few years has actually made it easier for new players to get into mining by indirectly driving down all the prices on the equipment... |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17808
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 17:54:19 -
[1055] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:It is interesting, looking at prices of modern mining items...
While every other ship type and module type in EVE has been getting more expensive... the mining ships/equipment have actually gone *down* in price pretty noticeably in the past few years.
I wonder if this is an over-reaction by the industrial section of the game trying to compensate for the perception that tons of miners are being ganked - so they are going to need new ships/gear?
I don't have a way to track it, and CCP doesn't care enough, but it would be interesting to find out.
It would be ironic if all the ganking these past few years has actually made it easier for new players to get into mining by indirectly driving down all the prices on the equipment...
We did find that mining ship ganks have noticeably dropped from 2012 so oversupply due to a lack of demand to replace ships and mods makes sense.
Some of the biggest donations to events such as hulkageddon came from industry players because they made a ton of isk on the back of the destruction. You could argue that they are infact the biggest beneficiaries of ganking as they supply both sides. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5074
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 18:01:44 -
[1056] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote:I have promised myself to not post ever again in these forums, but I guess I stopped caring since then, as for about a week I have decided to quit Eve (after playing it for more than two months). Why am I still here? Bringing Biology to level 5 so I can use the boosters I got from running the "Kill the Shipyard Event" (all three of them), for the unlikely chance that Eve will become "my game" someday and I will be back to ENJOY playing it. I have read a good number of posts in this thread (first 10 pages for sure ) and decided to share a new player's view (my irrelevant opinion) and feel about Eve Online. When I am done, you can proceed with slapping me with whatever accusations that come to your mind. I'll take it, it is forum PvP after all ! First I would suggest changing the name of the game. It should be called As****le/Punk Ganker Paradise. According to what I read about and experience in the game this would be a better name for its current state. There is no real PvP in it. Wherever you turn in the game everyone is "reaping/collecting/savouring/out for" other players "tears". They are actually out there to "PvP" (read blobb/gank/grief) just for that purpose. It does not matter where: fighting in space, scamming, you name it. A new player (2 days) posts on reddit: "I am out for tears. Can you suggest best fit for a ship to grief miners?" (not exact words as I read them about 2 weeks ago). What was the reaction? Everyone eagerly jumped in with suggestions. Honestly, I do not feel comfortable around such a high percentage of people with psychopathic tendecies. How else would you call someone whose intention is to make another person suffer (emotionally or otherwise) and enjoy it? Everyone is talking about Eve as a cold and harsh universe. Most of those people have no idea what that really means. Bedroom/basement/home office "warriors" . If you are a considerate person and have experienced real life harsh and cold universe/environment, you will never want to "reap tears" without a very sound reason. For a long time I wanted to play Eve being misinformed about it. If I would have known who the major part of the playerbase is, I would have not payed for a one year subscription. And by the way, if you come across my only kill (me being killed in a wormhole), please do not try to use that as "carebear lost a Heron and is crying now". I was so bored and burnt out after the Shipyard event that I simply did not care and just wanted to know if there is something else in this game I am missing and I could not care less about the loss. Mining - boring, missions - boring/repetitive with negative effect on one's standings, lowsec - gatecamped, nullsec - divided/owned and most of the time unreachable for a noob that does not care about corporations/alliances. Maybe Eve was intended as a sandbox, but it is not (especially for a new player). I looked on the recruitment forum to find a corp to join, that is in a WH/null. What do I find? Logi/mining ship/bait frigate skills for null, 20 mill SP for WH. Is that an open world/go wherever/do whatever you want environment? Hardly so! So what options a new casual player has? Mine/mission run in hisec coping with all the a** gankers and other arrogant pricks and wait and hope that one day you will actually do something you might enjoy. And that in addition to the brick wall learning curve, and artificial/unnecessary complexity/SP requirements. I have an impression that most people keep playing this game only because they got so invested while waiting for the SPs to allow them to do anything meaningful/worth doing in this game. All of the above might give you a hint regarding the low retention of new players. I will be leaving soon, before I get even more invested and I am really sad about it, as I wanted to like Eve Online. I am done whining ! Now you can start slapping me. Fly safe!
Let me see, whining? Check.
Wanting only to have player-to-player interaction on his own term? Check.
Wild exaggeration in regards to ganking? Check.
Calling those who gank psychopaths? Check.
Eve is not a sandbox? Check.
Complaining about the learning curve? Check.
Maybe this isn't the game for those who are insistent on remaining ignorant and lazy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
466
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 18:44:39 -
[1057] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote:I am done whining ! Now you can start slapping me. Fly safe!
>>> JUST A GAME <<< |
Blood Retributor
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2016.08.04 19:27:52 -
[1058] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me see, whining? Check.
Wanting only to have player-to-player interaction on his own term? Check.
Wild exaggeration in regards to ganking? Check.
Calling those who gank psychopaths? Check.
Eve is not a sandbox? Check.
Complaining about the learning curve? Check.
Maybe this isn't the game for those who are insistent on remaining ignorant and lazy.
Good try, but you failed !
Lazy? Not really. I was spending 5-16 hours a day in the game for the whole time since I created my only character. To the point that I started having issues with my spouse. Reading, reading, reading!
Ignorant? Not really. More like Inquistive. I had invested years in some other activities (not gaming) earlier in my life that ended up to be a waste of time, so I have become more cautious.
I just value my time reserved for "fun" and do not want to put up with the BS you swallowed years ago and are now defending. Read again this whole thread and see what you yourselves, older players, are saying about the game and CCP.
Pease, make sure that you read and UNDERSTAND, before jumping to personal offences.
Sorry for using the more generic "psychopath" term. Should have used the more precise "sadists". Use Google to research the term and tell me how do you call those who thrive on other people's suffering ("tear reaping").
If you also paid attention I did not complain about learning curve. English is not my native language so I just used an expression that another vet player used in one of these forums. I just considered it the most accurate and descriptive.
You seem to be in the arguing mood, so I will ignore your future comments. You should follow Jenn aSide example. She at least brought value to the thread with her comment.
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Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
230
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 19:35:32 -
[1059] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:While every other ship type and module type in EVE has been getting more expensive... the mining ships/equipment have actually gone *down* in price pretty noticeably in the past few years.
I wonder if this is an over-reaction by the industrial section of the game trying to compensate for the perception that tons of miners are being ganked - so they are going to need new ships/gear? No idea why you got that impression but that is certainly not the case. Care to give concrete examples?
The Crius expansion in mid 2014 has turned the industry side of things upside down. Long term price changes of specific items that aren't artificially limited by CCP over the timespan that you're suggesting are never due to player actions. At best player speculation is making the price change slower, but they don't cause it.
Applications like e.g. "EVE ISK per hour" or homegrown solutions can tell you exactly what is most profitable to build with a few mouseclicks which results in price spikes (up or down) only lasting a short time depending on the build time of that item. If there are prolonged increases in item prices, it usually affects more than just a select few items as that usually means that one or more of the materials required to build it have gone up in price. The latter one can of course be the result of player actions (see e.g. OTEC/B0TLRD Accords or more recently WWBee and the destroyed reactor farms of the CFC).
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 19:50:49 -
[1060] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:While every other ship type and module type in EVE has been getting more expensive... the mining ships/equipment have actually gone *down* in price pretty noticeably in the past few years.
I wonder if this is an over-reaction by the industrial section of the game trying to compensate for the perception that tons of miners are being ganked - so they are going to need new ships/gear? No idea why you got that impression but that is certainly not the case. Care to give concrete examples? The Crius expansion in mid 2014 has turned the industry side of things upside down. Long term price changes of specific items that aren't artificially limited by CCP over the timespan that you're suggesting are never due to player actions. At best player speculation is making the price change slower, but they don't cause it. Applications like e.g. "EVE ISK per hour" or homegrown solutions can tell you exactly what is most profitable to build with a few mouseclicks which results in price spikes (up or down) only lasting a short time depending on the build time of that item. If there are prolonged increases in item prices, it usually affects more than just a select few items as that usually means that one or more of the materials required to build it have gone up in price. The latter one can of course be the result of player actions (see e.g. OTEC/B0TLRD Accords or more recently WWBee and the destroyed moon mining/reactor farms of the CFC). Just an impression...I *had* tried to make that clear in the 2nd half of my post (which you conveniently deleted I notice ).
I don't do industry anymore, and I don't even need to shop all that often (because I literally have so much junk scattered around the universe I can generally find whatever I need just by rummaging for a few minutes and flying 20 jumps) - but in general the things I do buy are more expensive than they used to be. So I was surprised to note that all of the mining ships and mining items are cheaper than they used to be. Like a lot cheaper...
Like strip miners used to be 4 million, now they are 2 million. Retriever used to cost 35-40 million, now it is 25 million.
I know I'm out of touch with the industrial side of EVE - it just seemed odd.
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Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
71
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 19:54:21 -
[1061] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Galaxy Chicken wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Alternatively you could just target miners more than a month old who fit t2 modules...
Or scan your targets...
Or just hit the haulers and become rich... I'm talking t2 fit, no tank. Again, this isn't complicated maths. A basic t2 fit retriever should drop ~3 million isk in loot (1 strip miner, 1 mining upgrade) It can be ganked by a 2 million isk t1 fit catalyst in any 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled (using a free rookie ship) You get 750k of the catalyst cost back - so total cost of the gank is 1.25 million isk. 3.75 million isk loot > 1.25 million isk lost. Profit. If you *choose* to gank ships that will not be profitable, by using cost-ineffective ships or targetting ships that are not cost effective to kill - that is still your *choice*.... Deal with it. edit: I will grant you that strip miners and other mining modules are only half the price they were when I was ganking - shortly after the big infamous mining ship hp buff - and you are correct this did skew my old profit calculations. noticeably.... But the fact remains that you *know* going in exactly what your likely profit/loss is likely to be. You get the luxury of *choosing* how much isk to make. So don't cry if you make stupid choices.
Oh okay, so as long as I only gank completely untanked ships with t2 fittings in 0.5 systems and never fail a gank, I'll be good.
So I say again, unless you're super selective about your targets (only occasionally actually ganking but spending most of your time passing up otherwise viable targets), you can expect to lose money over time.
You asserted that this is how "most people who gank miners" operate, which is very much incorrect.
I'm not whining about anything friend, I don't gank for profit. I'm just pointing out that the claims you made are false and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Look at it this way, by far the largest and most active miner-ganking organization in the game, doesn't do so for profit but rather for ideological reasons. What does that tell you about the profitability of ganking miners? |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 20:21:36 -
[1062] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:Look at it this way, by far the largest and most active miner-ganking organization in the game, doesn't do so for profit but rather for ideological reasons. What does that tell you about the profitability of ganking miners? To be fair he puts it right out in the open - the leader of the largest miner-ganking organization in the game *does* do it for profits - and he puts 90% of all isk donated directly into his own pocket (over a trillion isk so far - and that is just what he has publicly reported) and doesn't even do any ganking himself...
But that is probably a discussion for another time/place
Also TBH you may do a lot of ganking, but CODE is more of an RP group than real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"...
In any case, have fun ganking |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
230
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 20:36:05 -
[1063] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Like strip miners used to be 4 million, now they are 2 million. Retriever used to cost 35-40 million, now it is 25 million. Where are you gettings these prices from? 2 million? Then you got very lucky as that is far away from their usual price point which hovers between 3.5 and 4 million these days (currently slightly below 3.7 million in Jita). Edit: I suppose you mean T2?
Retriever for 35-40 must have been a price spike a long time ago that you're remembering. 25 mil is also very cheap. They're usually traded for close to 30 mil, depending on mineral prices (currently 29 mil in Jita). Apart from that, drawing conclusions from T1 items/ships is dangerous as they're also built by the "minerals are free" idiots.
Have a look at http://eve-marketdata.com for statistics that exceed the 1 year limit of the ingame price history. It's quite interresting.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 20:41:43 -
[1064] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Like strip miners used to be 4 million, now they are 2 million. Retriever used to cost 35-40 million, now it is 25 million. Where are you gettings these prices from? 2 million? Then you got very lucky as that is far away from their usual price point which hovers between 3.5 and 4 million these days (currently slightly below 3.7 million in Jita). Edit: I suppose you mean T2? TBH I just looked at T1..because not many miners seem to use T2...and I don't think I've ever actually purchased one - just got them as drops from miners...but the in-game estimate said close to 4 million isk...
meh |
Paranoid Loyd
9356
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Posted - 2016.08.04 20:43:23 -
[1065] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"... Huh? What do you think is typical?
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
78
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Posted - 2016.08.04 20:48:08 -
[1066] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote:Everyone is talking about Eve as a cold and harsh universe. Most of those people have no idea what that really means. Bedroom/basement/home office "warriors" . If you are a considerate person and have experienced real life harsh and cold universe/environment, you will never want to "reap tears" without a very sound reason.
Well, it is a game. If someone in game has angered me or encroached on my space or I just do not look the like of them then why can I not try to reap in game tears? Not sure this is relevant at all because if one is unable to separate real life from a game environment then there are much bigger issues to work on.
Blood Retributor wrote:Mining - boring, missions - boring/repetitive with negative effect on one's standings, lowsec - gatecamped, nullsec - divided/owned and most of the time unreachable for a noob that does not care about corporations/alliances.
THIS is the reason EVE is not for you. It is not a solo game in the long term. There are plenty of solo activities but playing the game solo usually does not lend itself to long term play.
Blood Retributor wrote:Maybe Eve was intended as a sandbox, but it is not (especially for a new player). I looked on the recruitment forum to find a corp to join, that is in a WH/null. What do I find? Logi/mining ship/bait frigate skills for null, 20 mill SP for WH. Is that an open world/go wherever/do whatever you want environment? Hardly so!
First of all you contradict yourself in this section about corps compared to the one above. Also, I do not think you looked very hard because there are numerous new player friendly corps.
Anyway, in game design terms it is unquestionably a sandbox. You may not like the color of the sand or how it feels between your toes, but it is a sandbox. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5075
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 20:49:32 -
[1067] - Quote
Blood Retributor wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me see, whining? Check.
Wanting only to have player-to-player interaction on his own term? Check.
Wild exaggeration in regards to ganking? Check.
Calling those who gank psychopaths? Check.
Eve is not a sandbox? Check.
Complaining about the learning curve? Check.
Maybe this isn't the game for those who are insistent on remaining ignorant and lazy.
Good try, but you failed ! Lazy? Not really. I was spending 5-16 hours a day in the game for the whole time since I created my only character. To the point that I started having issues with my spouse. Reading, reading, reading! Ignorant? Not really. More like Inquistive. I had invested years in some other activities (not gaming) earlier in my life that ended up to be a waste of time, so I have become more cautious. I just value my time reserved for "fun" and do not want to put up with the BS you swallowed years ago and are now defending. Read again this whole thread and see what you yourselves, older players, are saying about the game and CCP. Pease, make sure that you read and UNDERSTAND, before jumping to personal offences. Sorry for using the more generic "psychopath" term. Should have used the more precise "sadists". Use Google to research the term and tell me how do you call those who thrive on other people's suffering ("tear reaping"). If you also paid attention I did not complain about learning curve. English is not my native language so I just used an expression that another vet player used in one of these forums. I just considered it the most accurate and descriptive. You seem to be in the arguing mood, so I will ignore your future comments. You should follow Jenn aSide example. She at least brought value to the thread with her comment.
So you act like a jackass, you get called on it, you apologize and then use another offensive psychiatric diagnosis for players doing things you don't ilke...and you are the one complaining about my discourse? I guess that takes a special type of self-centeredness.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 20:49:37 -
[1068] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"... Huh? What do you think is typical? For gankers? Hauler gankers who do it to make a profit...Or people who do occasional miner/whatever ganks for fun. I realize they are fewer in number - but they've been around since the game began 13 years ago.
CODE. is a relatively new concept in EVE - and isn't even limited to just ganking, that is just one of the tools they use. They seem to be primarily focused on their role-play of "saving high-sec" from the "evil bot-aspirants" - not ganking. I believe even the CODE. members here will agree with me when I say that for CODE. ganking is just a *tool* - not the end goal of their organization... |
Paranoid Loyd
9356
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 21:00:45 -
[1069] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"... Huh? What do you think is typical? For gankers? Hauler gankers who do it to make a profit...Or people who do occasional miner/whatever ganks for fun. I realize they are fewer in number - but they've been around since the game began 13 years ago. CODE. is a relatively new concept in EVE - and isn't even limited to just ganking, that is just one of the tools they use. They seem to be primarily focused on their role-play of "saving high-sec" from the "evil bot-aspirants" - not ganking. I believe even the CODE. members here will agree with me when I say that for CODE. ganking is just a *tool* - not the end goal of their organization... Relatively new or not, should the majority not be considered typical? Ignoring what typical is, what does classifying someone as typical or not typical accomplish? Is one's opinion any less relevant if they are not typical? Relevance should be based on knowledge and experience, not what is typical.
I can't speak for everyone but ganking is not the end goal of my organization and I fall into what you would arbitrarily call typical.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
405
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Posted - 2016.08.04 21:52:33 -
[1070] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"... Huh? What do you think is typical? For gankers? Hauler gankers who do it to make a profit...Or people who do occasional miner/whatever ganks for fun. I realize they are fewer in number - but they've been around since the game began 13 years ago. CODE. is a relatively new concept in EVE - and isn't even limited to just ganking, that is just one of the tools they use. They seem to be primarily focused on their role-play of "saving high-sec" from the "evil bot-aspirants" - not ganking. I believe even the CODE. members here will agree with me when I say that for CODE. ganking is just a *tool* - not the end goal of their organization... Relatively new or not, should the majority not be considered typical? Ignoring what typical is, what does classifying someone as typical or not typical accomplish? Is one's opinion any less relevant if they are not typical? Relevance should be based on knowledge and experience, not what is typical. I can't speak for everyone but ganking is not the end goal of my organization and I fall into what you would arbitrarily call typical. You could certainly consider them typical due to the number of people...but if we are going to start rating the balance or gankability of ships in terms of CODE.'s motivations... then the typical ganker shouldn't care whether there is any profit in it or not, nor how much tank the ship hull natively has... They have essentially endless isk to throw at their fun ganking - both from their profitable ganking and from numerous donations...So the entire discussion of costs vs profits becomes irrelevant.
But sure, if we use CODE. as a baseline - their average low-level member ganking miners doesn't make a profit from the gank itself - they only make a profit if they manage to sell a "permit". But they don't need to make a profit - because ganking is merely their form of highly aggressive door-to-door salesmanship/evangelism of their cult (again, all in game - role-play as I have said multiple times). |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
563
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Posted - 2016.08.04 21:58:56 -
[1071] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: should the majority not be considered typical?
is the typical EvE player a .01 ISK biomassed Jita scammer? is the typical EvE player bearing it up solo multiboxing? is the typical EvE player AFK icemining?
There are some subtle differences between how many toons are participating versus how many genuine persons are playing. Does a multiboxed bomberwing count? Do the 6 alts also count?
In a discussion entirely around profit for the last 16 pages, I would think trying to earn a buck would classify as "typical" yes. If that doesn't factor in, then what the hell are y'all even talking about?? |
Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
71
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Posted - 2016.08.04 22:14:13 -
[1072] - Quote
Here's you saying gankers, "on average" break even or profit:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: On average people who gank mining ships at least break even nearly every time - and often make a small profit.
Here's you admitting most miner gankers = New Order:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:...even though I do realize they are the primary ganker of mining ships.
Here's you claiming that the "primary gankers of mining ships" are not "real" or "typical" and therefore do not count:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Also TBH you may do a lot of ganking, but CODE is more of an RP group than real suicide gankers...I dunno if you qualify as "typical"...
It was important that you backpedal out of that one really quick, so you don't have to admit that the "primary gankers of mining ships" = New Order = ganking at a loss.
I knew if I gave you enough rope, you'd hang yourself. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
405
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 22:23:18 -
[1073] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote: I knew if I gave you enough rope, you'd hang yourself.
If you want to discuss ganking profitability in terms of code - the mining ships are irrelevant.
Fine, lets say you lose a couple million isk per mining ship - doesn't matter.
Because then we have to factor in all the *other* ships your alliance ganks. The freighters, the industrials, the missioning ships, etc.
Your average freighter gank seems to drop around, what, 2 billion isk in loot as a save low-ball estimate? Multiply that by 3600 freighters ganked and that gives us an estimated profit of 7.2 trillion isk. Just from freighters - not even including haulers/etc.
Now, lets say you lose 5 million isk per miner you gank - that means you are still making a profit overall for at least 1.44 million miner ganks.
Now, lets assume CODE. is nothing but a scam on its own members (just for the fun of it), and your leadership just puts 90% of that straight into their own pockets - that still leaves you with 144,000 fully paid for miner ganks. Since CODE. has only performed 65,000 kills to date - total, I'd say you are making quite a handsome profit with your ganking.
Q.E.D. - having done the math - The *typical* ganker (hereby defined as CODE.) is making massive profits on average.
edit: And I didn't even include your donations at all, nor the hauler kills, nor any other sources of income. The real profit amount is of course significantly higher. |
Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
71
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 22:50:57 -
[1074] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Fine, lets say you lose a couple million isk per mining ship...
I like this guy , he admits he's wrong when he's shown to be so.
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Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
71
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:04:21 -
[1075] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Because then we have to factor in all the *other* ships your alliance ganks. The freighters, the industrials, the missioning ships, etc.
Your average freighter gank seems to drop around, what, 2 billion isk in loot as a safe low-ball estimate? Multiply that by 3600 freighters ganked and that gives us an estimated profit of 7.2 trillion isk. Just from freighters - not even including haulers/etc.
Now, lets say you lose 5 million isk per miner you gank - that means you are still making a profit overall for at least 1.44 million miner ganks.
Your math is, as usual, pretty messed up, but before we even get into that, please explain to me how Jason Kusion ganking a freighter somehow results in cash going into my pocket.
I'm a miner ganker, that is what we were talking about before you started desperately trying to make this about the Savior of Highsec and whatever else...
You act like we have an alliance treasury or something, we don't. We have an SRP fund that is filled through donations. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
405
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:24:55 -
[1076] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Because then we have to factor in all the *other* ships your alliance ganks. The freighters, the industrials, the missioning ships, etc.
Your average freighter gank seems to drop around, what, 2 billion isk in loot as a safe low-ball estimate? Multiply that by 3600 freighters ganked and that gives us an estimated profit of 7.2 trillion isk. Just from freighters - not even including haulers/etc.
Now, lets say you lose 5 million isk per miner you gank - that means you are still making a profit overall for at least 1.44 million miner ganks. Your math is, as usual, pretty messed up, but before we even get into that, please explain to me how Jason Kusion ganking a freighter somehow results in cash going into my pocket. I'm a miner ganker, that is what we were talking about before you started desperately trying to make this about the Savior of Highsec and whatever else... You act like we have an alliance treasury or something, we don't. We have an SRP fund that is filled through donations. Like I said - the miner gankers in CODE. lose money.
You are the peons.
The amusing slaves upon whose back the empire is built.
I agreed with you on that point already: Yes, miner-ganking as CODE. does it is *not* profitable - and would be considered *stupid* if taken purely on its own without reference to the greater motivations of the CODE. organization.
Since you probably can't understand all those big words, let me simplify it for you:
You = Right.
You = Bad @ Gank for $$$
But You = OK because CODE. = Reasons
Yay You
|
Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
71
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:28:38 -
[1077] - Quote
Hey thanks bud. It's really classy of you to admit when you lose at forum PVP. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
405
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:28:59 -
[1078] - Quote
And for the record - yes, I am jealous of CODE.
I wish I'd thought of it first...
I mean **** - forget people who afk mine to earn isk for PLEX to play for free.....Arbitrarily declaring myself leader of high sec and recruiting a bunch of easily amused drones to farm isk for me, so that I *don't even have to log in* to earn isk to get PLEX and play for free? That is absolutely brilliant.
James 315 truly is a visionary - at least in the running for the absolute best scammer in EVE history. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
405
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:29:47 -
[1079] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:Hey thanks bud. It's really classy of you to admit when you lose at forum PVP. gf
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5075
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 23:51:25 -
[1080] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:And for the record - yes, I am jealous of CODE.
I wish I'd thought of it first...
I mean **** - forget people who afk mine to earn isk for PLEX to play for free.....Arbitrarily declaring myself leader of high sec and recruiting a bunch of easily amused drones to farm isk for me, so that I *don't even have to log in* to earn isk to get PLEX and play for free? That is absolutely brilliant.
James 315 truly is a visionary - at least in the running for the absolute best scammer in EVE history.
That is alot of AFK mining. And PLEX is not playing for free.
Sorry, couldn't let that softball go by.....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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