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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17896
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Posted - 2016.08.16 14:26:05 -
[391] - Quote
Faylee Freir wrote: Haulers can bring increased risk and loss to directly increase profits but if AG start impacting gankers ability to gank it will allow more freighters to pass through and deliver cargo.
Can't get much lower than it already is. Using the best data we have the chance of getting ganked in your freighter stands at less than 0.01%. There is only 2 organisations left doing this and one of them is funded by charity.
Chances of being ganked are so low you might as well say its as safe as you can get without outright banning pvp from highsec. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2196
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 14:29:03 -
[392] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote: Haulers can bring increased risk and loss to directly increase profits but if AG start impacting gankers ability to gank it will allow more freighters to pass through and deliver cargo.
Can't get much lower than it already is. Using the best data we have the chance of getting ganked in your freighter stands at less than 0.01%. There is only 2 organisations left doing this and one of them is funded by charity. Chances of being ganked are so low you might as well say its as safe as you can get without outright banning pvp from highsec.
That is only Red Frog data and as someone quite rightly pointed out on another thread their max collateral is 1bn, changes the dynamics a lot and makes them not representative of hisec hauling as a whole.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17896
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Posted - 2016.08.16 14:34:28 -
[393] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
That is only Red Frog data and as someone quite rightly pointed out on another thread their max collateral is 1bn, changes the dynamics a lot and makes them not representative of hisec hauling as a whole.
Its data from several million gate jumps and they use the exact same rules, mechanics and tools available to everyone.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2196
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 14:40:02 -
[394] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
That is only Red Frog data and as someone quite rightly pointed out on another thread their max collateral is 1bn, changes the dynamics a lot and makes them not representative of hisec hauling as a whole.
Its data from several million gate jumps and they use the exact same rules, mechanics and tools available to everyone.
The value of the cargo is set to be unprofitable to gank, so therefore they are not representative of freighter ganking in hisec.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
533
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 14:43:42 -
[395] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Can't get much lower than it already is. Using the best data we have the chance of getting ganked in your freighter stands at less than 0.01%. There is only 2 organisations left doing this and one of them is funded by charity.
Chances of being ganked are so low you might as well say its as safe as you can get without outright banning pvp from highsec. I'm not even disagreeing with your core point...but just for the record we determined it was a bit over a 0.25% chance of being ganked *per trip*. And CODE. freighter ganks are *not* funded by charity
But yes, if you keep your cargo under 1 billion isk and just autopilot your freighter anywhere in high sec, you will only be ganked once every 400 trips or so. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
534
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 14:59:05 -
[396] - Quote
Alternatively for ~500m isk one time + a billion isk a month you can set up an alt in a loki, huginn, rapier, or other web-range bonused ship to insta-warp your freighter gate to gate and you can safely haul more than 1 billion isk per trip...
Assuming a similar profit margin on whatever you are moving regardless of how big a chunk you move it in...you would need to transport 240 billion in the first month and then 160 billion per month after that to make this cost effective (or just a bit over 160 billion per month for however long it takes it to add up to the extra 80 billion moved there - eg: 180b for 4 months, then 160b ) - assuming you don't use the alt for anything else to add value to it.
This is fairly extreme - but perhaps the haulers moving massive amounts of assets would find it worthwhile rather than splitting 10b isk into 10 separate trips.
It also has the added bonus of making your trips go *much* faster than autopilotting.
And yes, I'm a math nerd
edit: And it (really should anyway) goes without saying that if you set up the alt as an SP farmer and/or PI farmer or any other form of passive income generator, it not only removes the cost of the alt but makes it an additional source of profit to you. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2201
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 15:11:22 -
[397] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Alternatively for ~500m isk one time + a billion isk a month you can set up an alt in a loki, huginn, rapier, or other web-range bonused ship to insta-warp your freighter gate to gate and you can safely haul more than 1 billion isk per trip... Assuming a similar profit margin on whatever you are moving regardless of how big a chunk you move it in...you would need to transport 240 billion in the first month and then 160 billion per month after that to make this cost effective (or just a bit over 160 billion per month for however long it takes it to add up to the extra 80 billion moved there - eg: 180b for 4 months, then 160b ) - assuming you don't use the alt for anything else to add value to it. This is fairly extreme - but perhaps the haulers moving massive amounts of assets would find it worthwhile rather than splitting 10b isk into 10 separate trips. It also has the added bonus of making your trips go *much* faster than autopilotting. And yes, I'm a math nerd edit: And it (really should anyway) goes without saying that if you set up the alt as an SP farmer and/or PI farmer or any other form of passive income generator, it not only removes the cost of the alt but makes it an additional source of profit to you.
However for 10bn they would step up to a blackbird which adds very little to their cost, say 15m and negate your webber.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
534
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 15:16:15 -
[398] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Alternatively for ~500m isk one time + a billion isk a month you can set up an alt in a loki, huginn, rapier, or other web-range bonused ship to insta-warp your freighter gate to gate and you can safely haul more than 1 billion isk per trip... Assuming a similar profit margin on whatever you are moving regardless of how big a chunk you move it in...you would need to transport 240 billion in the first month and then 160 billion per month after that to make this cost effective (or just a bit over 160 billion per month for however long it takes it to add up to the extra 80 billion moved there - eg: 180b for 4 months, then 160b ) - assuming you don't use the alt for anything else to add value to it. This is fairly extreme - but perhaps the haulers moving massive amounts of assets would find it worthwhile rather than splitting 10b isk into 10 separate trips. It also has the added bonus of making your trips go *much* faster than autopilotting. And yes, I'm a math nerd edit: And it (really should anyway) goes without saying that if you set up the alt as an SP farmer and/or PI farmer or any other form of passive income generator, it not only removes the cost of the alt but makes it an additional source of profit to you. However for 10bn they would step up to a blackbird which adds very little to their cost, say 15m and negate your webber. True...but there is only around a 5 second window in which you are vulnerable with range bonused webs - so they would need pretty perfect timing.
Not saying it can't be done - but it is difficult - particularly if they are trying to coordinate it with a -10 pilot. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2201
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 15:33:13 -
[399] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:[However for 10bn they would step up to a blackbird which adds very little to their cost, say 15m and negate your webber. True...but there is only around a 5 second window in which you are vulnerable with range bonused webs - so they would need pretty perfect timing. Not saying it can't be done - but it is difficult - particularly if they are trying to coordinate it with a -10 pilot.
They don't tend to use a -10 character for it as they have to wait for the freighter to decloak. The thing is that a good bumper will get on a freighter after 5 seconds, the blackbird is set for instra lock on the freighter, so if will prevent the warp allowing the Macherial to get on it. People are better off doing 1bn loads like Red frog.
But you are correct the one thing making it so they don't do it as much as they would want is the fact that they cannot really do it with a character who will be jumped on by the faction police.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17898
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 15:36:50 -
[400] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: The value of the cargo is set to be unprofitable to gank, so therefore they are not representative of freighter ganking in hisec.
What mechanic stops everyone else from not stuffing more than a billion into their holds? |
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Sack o'Richards
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2016.08.16 15:57:44 -
[401] - Quote
Dave Day wrote:
I wonder if the community has a view on my suggestion?
I just gonna say it.
Why play a pvp game if you dont want to pvp? There is no aspect of EVE that is not enhanced by or dependant on pvp. In EVE it's only worth having if it is worth fighting for.
There are a literal shitton of empire building sims out there. EVE is mmopvp. Carebear elsewhere? |
Solecist Project
32172
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:38:11 -
[402] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: The value of the cargo is set to be unprofitable to gank, so therefore they are not representative of freighter ganking in hisec.
What mechanic stops everyone else from not stuffing more than a billion into their holds?
Dracvlad, they are a part of it as much asthose who get ganked. The only difference is that they do not get ganked, because they aren't doing stupid.
You can't just take a small portion and balance everything around them, insulting all those who aren't stupid. Again real life is the same way. Because of one idiot falling off the bridge the bridge now needs safety even though it was fine before.
Is darwin in your mind an idiot? Do you understand evolution?
You're smarter than that, drac. Accept that people who lack self responsibility haveto suffer for it. Everything else leads into a big brother scenario where people are being more and more shielded and those who aren't idiots are suffering for it.
AND WORSE, the next generation grows up with the shielding, thinks it's normal and then demands even more shielding because they never learned to take care of themselves!
It is that simple! Nature worked like this for millions of years and only nowadays, because of politics, things are changing towards the worst!
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26613
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:42:15 -
[403] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lets try and answer your point and see if you can stay reasonable, most times I reply to you, you start getting all HTFU. But this is a point that needs to be addressed. You're right, it is a point that needs to be addressed, and I'll keep the conversation civil as long as you do too.
Quote:I have noted a lot of good PvP players say jump into something cheap and go and kill them, however a good player can rip through them like a wolf among sheep. I have been in situations where I have destroyed multiple ships around me. Its a factor of having the right ship and them having poor DPS and poor tankls, add to that OGB and implants and drugs and you really can go to town on people. When mercs say jump into a T1 frig and fight they know that they will in the main kick their ass badly, but they can make mistakes or there can be enough with the right comp that can tip the balance. Most of the time it is a slaughter. As Dirty Forum Alt pointed out, nobody is suggesting that people go one on one against mercs, that'd be insane.
The key words are working together, 20+ frigates can make one hell of a mess when used correctly and it's a tactic that has been used with great success in both nullsec and hisec, even more so with decent leadership. While I know that many of the targets of wardecs are far from having decent leadership where PvP is concerned, some of the merc community have shown in the past that they're more than willing to help those that help themselves, PIRAT found that out when they wardecced a well known streamers corp last year and ended up hiding in the Amarr Emperor station when faced with a rag tag fleet of newbies and bears under decent FCs.
Quote:The other side of this is trying to catch the Svipuls and Cynabels used by the pipe campers. Yes I could catch them, however I have dealt with a lot of GTFO type ships picking off tackle in 0.0, it is very difficult to do against people who know what they are doing and to be honest it is annoying content because as soon as they see a risk they warp away, double down on that with most defenders being low SP PvP characters, what chance do they have. While true that some of the ships used by campers are hard to catch especially in the hands of experienced players, low SP characters still have a chance when there's enough of them; once again the key words are working together.
Quote:I have tried to push people to fight back, but the issue is that many people do not have the skills to do enough and my biggest issue was with vet players who just hate hisec war decs. Because I have actually tried to push people to develop a mentality to fight back I know that the majority have no interest on the current gameplay. Some just don't want to PvP which is fine in itself, but at the end of the day Eve is a PvP game and they need to accept that PvP may happen to them regardless of what they want.
Quote:One of the things that used to get people involved in even small 0.0 alliances was structure bashing, it develops an I can do attitude, something to break away from the there is no point attitude that most have in hisec. My suggestion is aimed to try that, it may not work but its is better than nothing and gives something back to the war dec entities so they don't all sink into blanket war decs.
You can of course start twisting what I said to meet your normal desire to attack me personally or you can think about it and push yourself to answer with reasons even if it is me, I have come across people that want to fight but don't feel they can, changing that mentality would be possible with that OS. I've always maintained that the problem people have with PvP in hisec is more social than mechanical, and I still do. People are insular, they want to do their own thing and don't like being interfered with, unfortunately for them the nature of the game is that people will interfere with them and that can be somewhat of a shock to those that have come from other games that do have a PvE specific area.
An apparent unwillingness to work together or even ask those in the know how to deal with a wardec beyond not undocking for a week or complaining on the forums and reddit is not doing them any favours, they are seen as weak and thus easy meat; if they could overcome that unwillingness and work together to try and hit mercs where it hurts it would introduce their members to an aspect of the game that they may enjoy and if they do enjoy it may give them a core of people who are willing to engage in it next time it happens. It would also widen their social circles, which in turn leads to an exchange of knowledge and opens up possibilities for the future.
Besides being a PvP game, Eve is also a social game, by not working with others against common foes people are gimping themselves and falling into the trap of believing they are powerless against mercs and gankers when the truth is that they're not; having enough friends to back you up is where the power to take on your foes comes from.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26613
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:49:37 -
[404] - Quote
Sack o'Richards wrote:Dave Day wrote:
I wonder if the community has a view on my suggestion?
I just gonna say it. Why play a pvp game if you dont want to pvp? There is no aspect of EVE that is not enhanced by or dependant on pvp. In EVE it's only worth having if it is worth fighting for. There are a literal shitton of empire building sims out there. EVE is mmopvp. Carebear elsewhere? I don't willingly partake of traditional PvP, I actively avoid it but I acknowledge that Eve is a PvP game and that PvP may eventually find me.
They'e got to catch me first though, if and when it does happen to me the people involved will get a GF in local or by mail if they manage to catch my pod (which would mean that I cocked up big style). I know of at least one merc that would love to have my corpse in his collection simply because he knows it would be hard to collect.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Faylee Freir
Facetious Indifference Vendetta Mercenary Group
258
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 17:02:05 -
[405] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote: Haulers can bring increased risk and loss to directly increase profits but if AG start impacting gankers ability to gank it will allow more freighters to pass through and deliver cargo.
Can't get much lower than it already is. Using the best data we have the chance of getting ganked in your freighter stands at less than 0.01%. There is only 2 organisations left doing this and one of them is funded by charity. Chances of being ganked are so low you might as well say its as safe as you can get without outright banning pvp from highsec. Youre right. The days of CODE killing almost every freighter and Orca that passes through the pipe are dead with Loyal being banned. A lot of this is sensationalized fluff.
HTFU
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Solecist Project
32175
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 17:07:59 -
[406] - Quote
To be fair it always has been sensational fluff.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17901
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 18:21:12 -
[407] - Quote
Faylee Freir wrote:More freighters, jump freighters, and orcas die everday to pvp in low, null, and wspace than they do to hisec ganks.
Always have. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
535
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 18:26:58 -
[408] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:More freighters, jump freighters, and orcas die everday to pvp in low, null, and wspace than they do to hisec ganks. Always have. While (probably) true of Orcas and Jump Freighters...even a casual glance at the killboards for regular freighters would seem to indicate that that is a blatant lie...
A higher percentage of them may die there, because there are so many fewer out there...but the clear majority have been killed in high sec for regular freighters. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17902
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 18:34:47 -
[409] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:More freighters, jump freighters, and orcas die everday to pvp in low, null, and wspace than they do to hisec ganks. Always have. While (probably) true of Orcas and Jump Freighters...even a casual glance at the killboards for regular freighters would seem to indicate that that is a blatant lie... A higher percentage of them may die there, because there are so many fewer out there...but the clear majority have been killed in high sec for regular freighters.
Most that die in highsec are killed in wars oddly enough
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
536
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 18:35:29 -
[410] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:More freighters, jump freighters, and orcas die everday to pvp in low, null, and wspace than they do to hisec ganks. Always have. While (probably) true of Orcas and Jump Freighters...even a casual glance at the killboards for regular freighters would seem to indicate that that is a blatant lie... A higher percentage of them may die there, because there are so many fewer out there...but the clear majority have been killed in high sec for regular freighters. Most that die in highsec are killed in wars oddly enough Well that I have no way to track - but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Just saying they don't go to low/null/wh space often enough to actually die more out there |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2203
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 18:36:39 -
[411] - Quote
Jonah, first of all that was a pretty decent reply.
I never envisaged most people going one on one with the mercs, I was interested in seeing what could be created with a loose group, but the thing is when you do a comparison on what you can do with a small but tight knit fleet with bling fits, the right implants, drugs and OGB and competent logiyou really become a fairly hefty fleet that cannot be taken down even by 20 T1 frigates.. The trick is of course to catch them by surprise on the GTFO ships and fast lockers, but any more than that it will be difficult. The disparity in DPS can be significant, and these players can die very quickly, that being said it really depends how one goes about it.
I speak a lot to AG players and players who come into the channel, I found that the vast majority accept that Eve is a PvP game, this concept of people in hisec players wanting to ban hisec PvP is mainly incorrect, the people who call for the ending of hisec PvP are a very small minority.
Yes a majority of people do not want to interact with others or become forced to do stuff they do not want to do if it becomes a drag on them, you are quite right, and being in small numbers or alone makes you a lot more vulnerable n Eve. But at the end of the day that is what they want to do, most don't care enough to bother after the initial memory of being ganked has worn off.
Something needs to be done to enable those that have a bit more about them to get a bit more spirit, hence the OS I suggested above that something else needs to happen to make them want to work with others, that is why I suggested that CCP has to be very careful with indy structures, if they make it so they cannot be pulled down in 24 hours, I am not sure what will happen to the hisec player base, which is why I suggested to CCP to make one that can be taken down quickly but give others with higher yield that cannot, classic risk and reward. I don't think enough people realise just how fragile this remaining hisec base is. I am waiting to see what comes out from the indy structures, its a key change and I have no idea just what will happen to the hisec base if they cannot be removed within 24 hours, to say I am nervous is a whopping understatement.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Faylee Freir
Facetious Indifference Vendetta Mercenary Group
259
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 19:33:31 -
[412] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:More freighters, jump freighters, and orcas die everday to pvp in low, null, and wspace than they do to hisec ganks. Always have. While (probably) true of Orcas and Jump Freighters...even a casual glance at the killboards for regular freighters would seem to indicate that that is a blatant lie... A higher percentage of them may die there, because there are so many fewer out there...but the clear majority have been killed in high sec for regular freighters. Most that die in highsec are killed in wars oddly enough Well that I have no way to track - but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Just saying they don't go to low/null/wh space often enough to actually die more out there Actually i dont think you have sufficient proof to back up that freighters and jump freighters dont travel as frequently in null, low, or wspace. One thing to consider is that there are 1090 Hisec systems compared to 817 lowsec, 3524 nullsec, and 2499+ wspace systems. I will admit that hisec, specifically jita / amarr and the pipe between are the lifestream of commerce and trade in new eden... So i would say that when you take into consideration that less freighters die in all of hisec compared to the magnitude that makes up the rest of new eden its fair to say that freighter ganking is in a good place.
HTFU
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
759
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 19:48:23 -
[413] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
That is only Red Frog data and as someone quite rightly pointed out on another thread their max collateral is 1bn, changes the dynamics a lot and makes them not representative of hisec hauling as a whole.
Its data from several million gate jumps and they use the exact same rules, mechanics and tools available to everyone. The value of the cargo is set to be unprofitable to gank, so therefore they are not representative of freighter ganking in hisec. That's only true for individual contracts, however multiple contracts are regularly transported together, although it's not recommended and non-RF contracts (eg. From the haulers chsnnel) are often transported together with RF contract packages.
You can't tell what Freighter is carrying RF contracts from any other contracts as the Freighter pilots are not members of RF, nor do the Freighter alts directly accept the contracts.
So it's very common to be profitable to gank, but flying smart lowers the risk.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7945
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 20:15:33 -
[414] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:You are actually very correct in this. I would counter argue that AG banding together and effectively fighting would generally help every haulers profits. If AG proved to groups like Minikuv they they were an actusl threat and capable of stopping ganks then you would see AG doing just that.
But you are right... Theres always potential profit when a ganking group targets a freighter. The flipside is that unless the freighter offers payment to AG for helping, theres not much direct profit... Unless you do things like gank their dst, catch their suspect looting freighters, or loot their bump machariels that AG can gank. The loot scooping is especially important, they use a noob ship to scoop through a DST and as most people do not use freighter cans due to the impact on the algorithm for the loot fairy their freighters don't often go suspect. I also pointed out earlier that most AG just do not gank because that would be a wasted character, once -10 you can only gank and as most are indy they want to use taht character for PI or other things. You seem to ignore this issue around ganking as if it is nothing. There are even some players who will tell me I am bad for ganking the gankers, which is kinda funny...
We still have the alts though.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2222
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 20:28:39 -
[415] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Faylee Freir wrote:You are actually very correct in this. I would counter argue that AG banding together and effectively fighting would generally help every haulers profits. If AG proved to groups like Minikuv they they were an actusl threat and capable of stopping ganks then you would see AG doing just that.
But you are right... Theres always potential profit when a ganking group targets a freighter. The flipside is that unless the freighter offers payment to AG for helping, theres not much direct profit... Unless you do things like gank their dst, catch their suspect looting freighters, or loot their bump machariels that AG can gank. The loot scooping is especially important, they use a noob ship to scoop through a DST and as most people do not use freighter cans due to the impact on the algorithm for the loot fairy their freighters don't often go suspect. I also pointed out earlier that most AG just do not gank because that would be a wasted character, once -10 you can only gank and as most are indy they want to use taht character for PI or other things. You seem to ignore this issue around ganking as if it is nothing. There are even some players who will tell me I am bad for ganking the gankers, which is kinda funny... We still have the alts though.
We could go gank some freighter wrecks, 2 Catalysts can do it in a 0.5 system if we don't get shot by anyone before CONCORD comes to blap us.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Solecist Project
32179
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 20:32:48 -
[416] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:We could go gank some freighter wrecks, 2 Catalysts can do it in a 0.5 system if we don't get shot by anyone before CONCORD comes to blap us. No, you can't, because there's a CONCORD blob there... ... just sayjan.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17473
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Posted - 2016.08.16 21:21:18 -
[417] - Quote
Are ag honestly complaining about ganking something being hard?
This might be my favorite thread of the year.
=]|[=
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Solecist Project
32181
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 21:26:04 -
[418] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Are ag honestly complaining about ganking something being hard?
This might be my favorite thread of the year. Noobs.
Back in my days i did worlds collide the blockade* ... (Uphill. Both ways. But no really :P)
*been a while...
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Sole Hunter
Dot.Inc TRUE VINE
0
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Posted - 2016.08.16 21:29:16 -
[419] - Quote
Dave Day wrote:wall of text
You know, you can always surrender and move on. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
538
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Posted - 2016.08.16 21:29:31 -
[420] - Quote
Faylee Freir wrote:Actually i dont think you have sufficient proof to back up that freighters and jump freighters dont travel as frequently in null, low, or wspace. One thing to consider is that there are 1090 Hisec systems compared to 817 lowsec, 3524 nullsec, and 2499+ wspace systems. I will admit that hisec, specifically jita / amarr and the pipe between are the lifestream of commerce and trade in new eden... So i would say that when you take into consideration that less freighters die in all of hisec compared to the magnitude that makes up the rest of new eden its fair to say that freighter ganking is in a good place. #1 - I said you were right that Jump Freighters die more in low/null/etc - since that is their primary usage area out there - I only said regular *non-jump* freighters die more in high sec. #2 - Look at the killboard...it is pretty obvious that significantly more die in high-sec than anywhere else (again, just the regular 4 freighter types) #3 - Pointing out that there are only 1090 high-sec systems vs 6840+ other systems actually makes it 7 times more impressive that more of them die in high sec - so you are actually citing evidence contrary to what you are trying to say with that one #4 - I'm not even disagreeing with you - I think ganking is just fine as-is in relation to freighters and everything else. I'm *only* disagreeing with your silly assertion that "less freighters die in high sec than outside of high-sec" - because it is clearly false. Whether they die from ganking/wars, I don't really care - most of them clearly die in high-sec, as shown by the killboards.
I do not think it is unreasonable for haulers to factor in a 6.25 million isk loss per freighter trip for their eventual, inevitable ganks. I think they need to just suck it up and move on with life, or take precautions to make it less likely (or both).
But I also think it is silly to make up random claims to support a case that is already strong - it actually makes it less credible. Stick to the proven facts |
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