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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2016.07.25 09:54:03 -
[1] - Quote
Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
316
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:07:03 -
[2] - Quote
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/12215635.jpg
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
338
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:13:23 -
[3] - Quote
Decloaking people in a slow industrial is not that hard. Let's not assume cheats are involved, just because you got caught with too much cargo in a T1 indy. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3449
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:26:48 -
[4] - Quote
If you do a forum search for other threads on this topic you will find out why all your ideas are actually bad for the game and end up punishing the people who aren't ganking while virtually not touching the gankers. |
Major Xadi
Mercenary Logistics Ltd.
59
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:28:59 -
[5] - Quote
This is the game as created and intended to be. Danger can lurk behind every gate. Play the game.....or don't. But don't call for the fundamental character of the game to be changed. And some folks are just plain good at certain things like piloting their ships. Doesn't mean they are cheating.
You took a loss. Ok, so have many in this game. Sometimes it hurts. I know, a couple losses on my killboard due to my carelessness really hurt. Take a breath, rethink what you're doing and do it smarter. You can be a better player and the game can stay the same.
Seriously, some folks who wander in here seem like they would want the rules of chess to be changed because someone will capture their pieces. They just want to move pieces around a board and be left in peace. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:51:57 -
[6] - Quote
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? |
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:55:39 -
[7] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
What where you flying and what was the fit? |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
783
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:56:28 -
[8] - Quote
It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch!
CCP Falcon wrote:Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
CCP Falcon wrote:Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.
There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.
CCP Falcon wrote:I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.
Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.
Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3452
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:02:18 -
[9] - Quote
xttz wrote:It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch! Quite frankly Falcon is out of touch with the normal players experience with EVE. He belonged to the 1% when he played EVE, and as a Dev the loudest voices he hears are the 1% still. Doesn't invalidate some of his points, but he really has lost touch and some of his quotes aren't actually an appropriate answer. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:03:36 -
[10] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so.
If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. |
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:09:36 -
[11] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
I'm pretty sure we talked in-game and you had a very wrong fit. EVE is a sandbox, everyone could do whatever they want ... sure CCP could deny dock / medical clone to hisec gankers having sec status lower than a value but that won't stop completely the gank at all, but will add some extra work / cost for gankers in order to fix their sec status (buying concord tags), therefore ... MORE ganks!
I do agree that CCP could do more in order to avoid hisec ganks like having concord on-grid for > 0.8 security systems in order to have an immediate action against gankers, but that wouldn't stop gankers either - they'll simply use more ships.
Anyway, there are solutions of course, but CCP won't do anything cause they're just don't care about the player-base - or maybe they will when the PLEX will hit 1.5-2.0 Billion ISK and they'll have less subscribers - ultil then ... stay away from JITA (alternatives: Dodixie, Amarr, Hek) fit your ship properly or just quit the game at all if it doesn't give you any satisfaction / fun at all. Playing should bring joy and satisfaction, if you mined several days for that cargo and you got blown up by a gate camp ... I'm sure that is far from any satisfaction for you ...
CCP won't give a dime, live with it.
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Wrench Conne
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:12:49 -
[12] - Quote
I understand how you feel sort of. The first day I played the game I joined the Horde and was shipped off to the other side of the galaxy away from any sort of security and I regularly mine in systems around O1Y. Take a look at that system, and imagine mining asteroids that are visited at least every half hour by pirates and are almost constantly under attack by people searching for their next gank. This is how the game is played and if you've played any other online MMOs you will have noticed that each of them usually start out awesome but slowly make things easier and easier cause people complain until skill is no longer a factor. This is something that we don't want to happen in this game. |
Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
23
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:16:36 -
[13] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Oddly
LOADS!!!
Firstly, the map will tell you if alot of ships have been lost in a system, can you also check Zkills for the same info, if you see a lot of kills pick another route.
Secondly. Don't be a scrub, invest in a second account as a scout.. if your RL budget doesn't extend to the that, use a trial account.
Third, Don't be a scrub, invest in a blockade runner
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Lucy Icecream
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:22:02 -
[14] - Quote
Safety should not be there. A gun boat should shoot a paper hauler between seconds ... also OK!
The problem is not the system itself. It can't be harder to gank a paper ship , but ...
However the problem is the faction police, which is doing nothing against the bad security status. The written message at entering the space is the only thing which is popping up.
Why is the faction police not putting some extra gate guns at each gate and shoot the pirates after a few seconds? Or scan down the bad guys and follow them in space? Then the ganker have to repair their security status before they can gank again. This should not be a huge problem for both sides.
Why not putting this in player hands and the players can mount additional gate guns for the faction police. Not putting some money on their head ... just buying a gate gun an mount it at any gate to shoot automatically at players with negative (red) security status or enemies of the faction after the warning message. This will offer a new game play and the industrialists can strike back against the PVP (sorry ganking is not really PVP - it is just shooting against moving targets - like a amusement park) guys.
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Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:27:10 -
[15] - Quote
Lucy Icecream wrote:However the problem is the faction police, which is doing nothing against the bad security status. The written message at entering the space is the only thing which is popping up.
This is not correct. They do shoot and point you if you have bad security status. Faction police is just not as almighty as Concord is. On top of that every player can shoot you without Concord intervention if your security status is too low.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2666
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:32:53 -
[16] - Quote
But where was anti-ganking to save the OP?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:33:06 -
[17] - Quote
Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you.
Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? |
Knitram Relik
Running With Railguns
60
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:33:51 -
[18] - Quote
Hi-Sec Gëá Safe-Sec.
The beauty of Eve that most other games lack is simply this: Your decisions can have real consequences. No safety net. This game isn't for everyone because of this. Ask yourself, "Is it for me?" Don't beg to have it changed to suit your play style. Sack up or move on. |
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:35:52 -
[19] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:41:29 -
[20] - Quote
Ramses Davaham wrote:Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners.
How does that answer my question? |
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
459
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:44:51 -
[21] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote:...At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more)..., The psychiatric community has determined that to run a corporation one must be a sociopath. Did you know that?
To find one sympathetic, or empathetic, to a cause, one must first find one capable of sympathy...or empathy. To find those not only incapable of sympathy, or empathy, but ready and able to ridicule anyone with these capabilities, post in this forum.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
977
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:49:53 -
[22] - Quote
Dibz wrote:
Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
In a gank, it's almost never about active tank, but about buffer. Boost your resists, and your raw EHP, as high as you possibly can. You don't need to be ungankable, you just want to make yourself as unattractive a target as possible.
If you do a lot of hauling, invest in a freighter or deep space transport, and put as much tank on it as you can. Do not put billions of isk of cargo in a single run (my rule is, generally, do not put more cargo in the ship than the insurance payout on the hull, but YMMV). Both of these strategies will help to make you less attractive to the people who are ganking for profit, and they are more likely to wait for a softer and/or more valuable target.
It's like protecting your home from thieves. You can't make your house impossible to break into, but you can make it risky enough that most of the larceny inclined will move onto easier targets and leave you be.
There's really nothing you can do to stop the lulz gankers. That's more a case of wrong place wrong time than anything else.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:50:58 -
[23] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Ramses Davaham wrote:Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners. How does that answer my question?
It would be obvious if you read my statement. - But if you really want to know - think about it. They likely scanned you 2 -3 systems back...they usually have spotters along well traveled trade routes...and then spring the trap when the time is right.
The fact they can is irrelevant....the solution is to fly smarter....
There are scanning mods that can scan you without requiring a target lock (as far as you notice on your ship that is) - you want to remove the threat? Remove the temptation.
Natuarlly this doesn't stop them from randomly ganking a blockade runner....but they will pick a juicy Inty V over you if they spot a **** ton of cargo on the inty V. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1919
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 12:53:16 -
[24] - Quote
The simple issue is that as a new low skilled player you are in the game purely to be their fun, you supply them with easy kills, easy money and tears, you end up in easy to kill ships because of low SP and because you are casual you have one account so no scout.
A lot of people have decided that being a easy target is meh and have left the game, you might decide that being an easy kill loot pinata is not for you. And who would blame you?
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:54:38 -
[25] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
They have a character sitting on a gate one or two jump down the pipe and scan you there. When you then pass their ganking characters they already know how much you have in your cargo.
The idea with tanking your hauler is that the gankers need more ships to kill you, which of course makes it more expensive for them. That in turn means that it's only profitable for them if you are carrying enough cargo. More tank -> more cargo you can carry before you become a profitable target. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14307
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:00:47 -
[26] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Some things people could do:
-MWD Cloak Trick works fine. - You can Hull Tank a T1 hauler to an outrageous level now. -You should be double wrapping cargo in anything that isn't a blockade runner - Train for Blockade Runner. - Use Tanked DSP with MJD. -THINK
Of course there are more than 2 kinds of people, but for the purpose of this discussion, there really are only 2 kinds of people:
Folks who come in to a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then say to themselves "OK, there is a knowledge deficit here, what do I need to learn to avoid this happening again?".
And
Folks like the OP, who come into a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then run to the highest authority they can find and claim to be a victim of some gross injustice that can only be fixed with heavy intervention from that authority. The bad thing is that sometimes that authority (in this case, CCP) sometimes does given in just to make the 'victims' go away...which other victim types see...which creates more victim types...
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Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
18
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:01:21 -
[27] - Quote
1st you were carrying too much. Rule of thumb for a t1 haul is 100mil max and even that is pushing it. If you are in the serious business of hauling get an occator and max buffer tank it which evidence shows very seldom die in high sec in non wardecs.
2nd never cloak and burn *away* from the gate, you are just on the same trajectory as the decloaker and they eventually catch up since they are faster. Burn perpendicular to the gate in a random direction or at least aligning to the thing you want with the mwd+trick. Not perfect but better than just burning away like a lemon.
3rd you can do everything right and still lose just write it off as a cost of business. Real haul companies have to take losses. Think of 0.9-0.7 as Eastern Europe. Technically civilized yet really full of mafia and corrupt border guards and hijackings and whatnot, haul companies know they will take a loss eventually. It's the same with your virtual "high sec" haul business. |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
17
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 13:07:49 -
[28] - Quote
Jean Luc Clermont wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Oddly LOADS!!! Firstly, the map will tell you if alot of ships have been lost in a system, can you also check Zkills for the same info, if you see a lot of kills pick another route. Secondly. Don't be a scrub, invest in a second account as a scout.. if your RL budget doesn't extend to the that, use a trial account. Third, Don't be a scrub, invest in a blockade runner
You dont need a blockade runner. The cloaky warp trick works just as well in highsec as it does in low.
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Paranoid Loyd
9304
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:18:11 -
[29] - Quote
Yarr!
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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CCP Falcon
13032
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 13:21:35 -
[30] - Quote
So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:
In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?
I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.
The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it.
The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers.
You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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