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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
24
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:27:29 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it. The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers. You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
what he said... only with less words |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13919
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:40:57 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:
In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? Is staple of said interaction must be PKing and:
CCP Falcon wrote:I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. ..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26405
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:42:40 -
[33] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Know your enemy, most gankers use Gallente ships which deal kinetic and thermal damage. Fit for buffer tank, taking into account the above. Know the high risk areas, Uedama, Nairja, etc. Have a set (r)isk limit, for example I never haul more than 3000 isk for every point of EHP that my hauler has. Never go afk, if you need a break, dock up. Never use the autopilot, gankers love it when you do. Set well known gankers, and ganking groups, to terrible standings using the standings mechanic so that they appear red in local. [*] Use a scout, either an alt or a friend and have them equip a web or 2.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2667
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:55:59 -
[34] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13919
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:00:18 -
[35] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17032
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:08:07 -
[36] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl.
Sit down love.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14312
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:09:55 -
[37] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in. CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. Cant jump clone to high.
Yep, that sure does sound like fun in a game that is supposed to be dangerous all the time.
I have a better idea, how about people learn to play (surviving, and thwarting the schemes of those who want to kill you is a big part of the game) rather than trying to figure out how to get CCP to punish people who spent the time to learn how to play?
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14312
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:10:46 -
[38] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl. Sit down love.
Highlighted the problematic (for some people) word there.
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
239
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:xttz wrote:It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch! Quite frankly Falcon is out of touch with the normal players experience with EVE. He belonged to the 1% when he played EVE, and as a Dev the loudest voices he hears are the 1% still. Doesn't invalidate some of his points, but he really has lost touch and some of his quotes aren't actually an appropriate answer.
The 1%? What is this America and income equality debate? If you were to take all the alts of players that live in null and low out of high sec, you would notice a very large drop in actual high sec residents. A majority of the players that live in low and null, and many that live in high sec would consider what Falcon says on this matter to be very much in touch with the community. In fact many players think that high is TOO safe for the income you can make there.
The misconception is that because people see "bears" complain on the forums often about being ganked, killed, or how hard/unfair the game is that that is the general consensus of the player base. And thats untrue. 99% of the people that post on the forums are:
1) Forum regulars, including trolls, that will post/debate various topics and help others with questions. 2) Newbies asking questions 3) People complaining about the game or a game mechanics. These,9 times out of 10, are bears...usually high sec bears that think this game should be more like WoW and less like Eve. Dumbed down, hand holding, with a dev protection blankie surrounding their frail being.
Only a very very small portion of the player base is represented here. CCP tried the carebear route a few years ago. Spending time on a feature that had no business in a game of internet spaceships, because bears whined about wanting it. It went over very badly with the eve player base.
If you want to automatically be the hero of the story, Eve is not for you. If you want AI to guide you through a story, Eve is not for you. If you want the game to create content for you, Eve is not for you. If you want to dress your character up and walk around and interact with others in a social setting as if you were at a virtual club, Eve is not for you. If you want simple linear skills and gameplay, eve is not for you. If you want to play solo, eve is not for you. If you want a "safe place" while you play, eve is not for you. If you want to gain the rewards from pve without incurring any risks from other players, eve is not for you. If you are so attached to your pixels that you cannot stand the thought of losing them, eve is not for you. If you think you can change the game to fit YOUR playstyle rather than adapting to the game's playstyle, eve is not for you. If you think high sec is there so you can carebear in peace and safety, eve is not for you and you are delusional.
If you think any of the above things should be features of eve and think you are in the majority, you are severely mistaken. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:12:08 -
[40] - Quote
After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. |
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
84
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:16:05 -
[41] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
Because that's how the game as been since friggin' day 1? This horse has been beaten and ground into a pulp. There are so many ways you can protect yourself. I used to live in HS and we were attacked in belts, at gates, in missions. We didn't cry or complain. We looked at what happened, how they did it, and adapted. Y'know like everyone else the first decade of the game. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
239
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:16:30 -
[42] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17033
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:18:14 -
[43] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. Oh so its the devs fault that you cant reconcile with eves nature now? Grow up.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13920
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:19:27 -
[44] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in. CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. Cant jump clone to high. Yep, that sure does sound like fun in a game that is supposed to be dangerous all the time. I have a better idea, how about people learn to play (surviving, and thwarting the schemes of those who want to kill you is a big part of the game) rather than trying to figure out how to get CCP to punish people who spent the time to learn how to play? Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
Responsibility is not a button, it must have consequences and you know how they look in real.
Question is, we go for realism or just a mocking caricature of it? Now its just a caricature.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1922
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:20:43 -
[45] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
Actually that is on the way to happening, note that the OP even suggested a more meaningful penalty:
Quote:the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
Which was completely ignored by the Dev.
Many of us see CONCORD as a joke, it is akin to 15 minutes community service for a murder in RL. Consequences...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14313
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:23:50 -
[46] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
I'm a miner and a social player and a pve player. Why would CCP lose me because someone at CCP explained the nature of the game to people who are obviously clueless?
Most of us who are PVE focused understand the pvp nature of the game, and embrace it, and even use it (nothing is better than using NPCs to kill a pvp player who is trying to kill you while you pvp, I've done so doing Guristas MAZE and Angel Cartel Naval Shipyard).
That folks like you can't get with the program is a personal issue, not one involving all pve players. CCp is treating us just fine, they give us tools to screw with pvp nerds all day long.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26407
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:25:53 -
[47] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game. It won't happen, many of the hisec miner/social/PvE players are also wardeccers, pirates and gankers or are well aware of the nature of the game and plan accordingly.
I'm one of those that plans accordingly, kindly desist from associating me with people who want the game to change to suit them.
Quote:I think developers really deserve it. What they deserve more customers that embrace the niche nature of their product, and less customers like you.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:28:21 -
[48] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39
Well,
It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on.
I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec.
I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc.
So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game".
So that said developers can figuratively spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes belonging in a racist way. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14318
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:22 -
[49] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. Oh so its the devs fault that you cant reconcile with eves nature now? Grow up.
There are always people like that, most of the arguments had on this forum is with people who can't (as you say) "reconcile with eves nature".
We can tell them all day that this is their problem, we can show them how we (those who can accept what the game is) are way happier day to day than they are, and how we enjoy the game more and consider it time and money well spent. But that won't change a thing, because the problem is so deeply with them (ie they are the kind of people who can't really be happy with anything) that no outside perspective can help them.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17034
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:38 -
[50] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39 Well, It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec. I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc. So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game". So that said developers can figuratively spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes belonging in a racist way. Explain the racism o madam snowflake
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13921
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:40 -
[51] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game. It won't happen, many of the hisec miner/social/PvE players are also wardeccers, pirates and gankers or are well aware of the nature of the game and plan accordingly. I'm one of those that plans accordingly, kindly desist from associating me with people who want the game to change to suit them. Quote:I think developers really deserve it. What they deserve more customers that embrace the niche nature of their product, and less customers like you. You are developing product to suit needs of your consumers, consumerbase is developed by whole market.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2668
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:30:23 -
[52] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:30:28 -
[53] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39 Well, It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec. I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc. So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game". So that said developers can spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes believing in a racist way.
Ironic - considering the arrogance is all on you. Learn to read before you start mouthing off at things you don't understand. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14318
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:31:44 -
[54] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: racist way.
Dude, Hisec is not a RACE. Even is it was, High Sec Lives still wouldn't matter...
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2668
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:34:39 -
[55] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. The only good highsec miner is a dead highsec miner (or a CODE compliant one obviously).
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:35:18 -
[56] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE.
Nah, I really don't cry at all and I really don't care about what you do or not on your catalyst, you can spend all your life exploding yourself in hisec if it makes you happy.
What is disgusting is to see all those forum heroes, including you, taunting hisec players with the support of game developers.
This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game.
I know some of them and they would not do because actually gank rate is ridicolously slow in-game despite what gankers write here, so basically it's marginal. |
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
17
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:35:20 -
[57] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:But where was anti-ganking to save the OP?
lolz EXACTLY. That should be the main takeaway from the OP's post. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
86
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:38:22 -
[58] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE. Nah, I really don't cry at all and I really don't care about what you do or not on your catalyst, you can spend all your life exploding yourself in hisec if it makes you happy. What is disgusting is to see all those forum heroes, including you, taunting hisec players with the support of game developers. This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I know some of them and they would not do because actually gank rate is ridicolously slow in-game despite what gankers write here, so basically it's marginal.
It's not taunting if they're just telling how it is. That is the nature of the game. End of story. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
341
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:38:47 -
[59] - Quote
Fine. I'll take some prison time for suicide ganking, but then you also need to stop Highseccers from leaving a corp that is wardecced.
Like you guys say, there need to consequences for your actions, so there should also be consequences for making a corp you can't defend. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13921
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:41:11 -
[60] - Quote
Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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