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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:28:26 -
[151] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism. No, it is called realizing what kind of game we are playing. And playing a game is a choice. Nobody is forcing you into this type of game. You, on the other hand are like the house guest from Hell who won't leave, constantly complains about the house you are staying in, and wants to change stuff that is not yours. You are also guest here, dont forget that. Its not your home. Is just a game. And stuff. All is CCP stuff. And sandbox too. Must be regulated with some laws to not become litter. As in your neighborhood.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
449
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:31:44 -
[152] - Quote
No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:36:01 -
[153] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec.
Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some).
Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law.
Warren v. District of Columbia.
The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens.
In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.).
In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
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Posted - 2016.07.25 19:36:35 -
[154] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:37:45 -
[155] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism. No, it is called realizing what kind of game we are playing. And playing a game is a choice. Nobody is forcing you into this type of game. You, on the other hand are like the house guest from Hell who won't leave, constantly complains about the house you are staying in, and wants to change stuff that is not yours. You are also guest here, dont forget that. Its not your home. Is just a game. And stuff. All is CCP stuff. And sandbox too. Must be regulated with some laws to not become litter. As in your neighborhood.
I'm not asking them to change the game in a fundamental way, though, now am I?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
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Posted - 2016.07.25 19:39:01 -
[156] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
Not in your vision of the game though. You want to remove consequences.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
450
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:39:09 -
[157] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
Those Vexors died, yes? If they didn't, OP was under a wardec and there shouldn't be consequences. The blame is clearly on the industrial pilot who didn't know what to do. That's okay- he'll know better next time.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
349
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Posted - 2016.07.25 19:40:02 -
[158] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences. Getting killed for flying around with too much cargo in an intanked T1 industrial with no scouts or other security measures, sounds like a fine consequence in my mind...
But I suppose, only gankers needs consequences in their gameplay. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:40:39 -
[159] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down. If they will not help you next time, you can be so crazy happy about that.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
42
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:41:12 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it. The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers. You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
CCP Falcon
I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.
For only one of your multiple personalities what if the punishment was for the whole account |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
450
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:44:30 -
[161] - Quote
Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14347
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:47:46 -
[162] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down.
This is not accurate as far as law enforcement is concerned. In the United States a law enforcement agency owes general duty to the public rather than to individuals unless special circumstances arise (for example, if I arrest someone, that is a special circumstance, I have to protect them from harm, at least till i turn them over to the jail).
People misunderstand Warren v DC all the time so you are not alone. The case means yes police have to help the general public, no police are not your personal bodyguards.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:52:37 -
[163] - Quote
Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. They should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
21
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Posted - 2016.07.25 19:58:51 -
[164] - Quote
zus wrote:For only one of your multiple personalities what if the punishment was for the whole account
This is a terrible idea and one hell of a slippery slope. You might as well suggest they extend "punishment" across ALL accounts related to a person doing it. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
249
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:05:39 -
[165] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Gankers accept the consequences of their actions. Gankers know full well what will happen when they gank. The problem is Pver's wont accept full responsibility for their actions nor accept the consequences of those actions. Rather than adapt to the game and the rules around ganking and what makes good gank targets, they blatantly ignore the rules around ganking, tanking their ship, and making sure the value of their cargo isnt to high to make them a target. Instead of making multiple trips and being significantly safer from ganking, they try to make one trip with all their golden eggs in their paper basket going through the ghetto.
Their greed, laziness, and unwillingness to adapt to the situation causes them to die. IE: Darwinism at work. Failure to adapt means you die.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
349
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Posted - 2016.07.25 20:06:39 -
[166] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship.
When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags.
But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1154
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:07:40 -
[167] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. As an occasional highsec miner and regular highsec pve player I care to disagree with you.
I think Falcon nailed it once again and did a great job in responding to the ops whine post in a measured and friendly way. Customer service at its best.
Remove insurance.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2687
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:14:58 -
[168] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? We are getting closer with you... every day.. with every post.. you can almost see the light... we are not far away now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
88
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:17:35 -
[169] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing.
They do live in lawless space. They live in SPACE. We call 0.0 space lawless because of no police, but in reality most of New Eden is fairly lawless. In HS you have scamming, war, trade wars, etc. That very lawless. From an in-game perspective the most lawful areas would be planets and stations that are governed a little bit better. The whole premise of the game is the fact you live in a very lawless spacescape and the further out from the Empires it just gets worse. You do know the title itself stands for Everyone verses Everyone and the second you sign up you are told ****'s rough. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:29:18 -
[170] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship. When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags. But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced. These are jokes, not consequences. Lawles nature, lawless place for it.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5011
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:39:11 -
[171] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down. This is not accurate as far as law enforcement is concerned. In the United States a law enforcement agency owes general duty to the public rather than to individuals unless special circumstances arise (for example, if I arrest someone, that is a special circumstance, I have to protect them from harm, at least till i turn them over to the jail). People misunderstand Warren v DC all the time so you are not alone. The case means yes police have to help the general public, no police are not your personal bodyguards.
Yes, the police have a duty to the general public, but no duty to any specific individual. So if a police officer sees you getting mugged he is under no obligation to help you as you are an individual.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17063
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:43:35 -
[172] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? Give it time, just wait. The next time an edge gets rounded and we wail and gnash our teeth to no avail do you think they will be happy then? Will that be enough? Will that be the one that quiets them?
We both know the answer to that, its why we respond to every one of these godforsaken children.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:43:48 -
[173] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? We are getting closer with you... every day.. with every post.. you can almost see the light... we are not far away now. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626 High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. Pyrrhic victory.
The days of such reigns must end fast.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5012
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:46:52 -
[174] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Maekchu wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship. When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags. But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced. These are jokes, not consequences. Lawles nature, lawless place for it.
And yet they are significant enough to prevent ganking from being ubiquitous.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2691
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:54:11 -
[175] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. You are a good example of what's wrong with Highsec. Every thread people like you make brings more of our critics over to our camp. Your demands are so unreasonable and beyond an understanding what EVE is that more and more people are starting to see the light and that James 315 was right all along.
You can not win this, as we will fight for EVE as long as the servers are up and do our best to eradicate the bot-aspirant disease from this brilliant game. And as we all know, the CODE always wins, always!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5012
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:55:47 -
[176] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. You are a good example of what's wrong with Highsec. Every thread people like you make brings more of our critics over to our camp. Your demands are so unreasonable and beyond an understanding what EVE is that more and more people are starting to see the light and that James 315 was right all along.
Which pisses me off.
Somebody get James 315 an editor dammit!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:03:04 -
[177] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:[quote=Nana Skalski]You can not win this, as we will fight for EVE as long as the servers are up and do our best to eradicate the bot-aspirant disease from this brilliant game. And as we all know, the CODE always wins, always! You will win, but not what you want, Pyrrhic victory, as I said. Having such dedication will bring you closer to it even faster.
And your bot disease is non existent. All lies.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
486
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:05:23 -
[178] - Quote
This has been beaten to death.
While I completely understand CCP Falcon's position and support most of it, there are some leaps to rationality that are implied but not supported. Some have pointed those out but it's easy enough to give him a pass on it because you still understand what he was getting at.
As to HiSec ganking. You have two options:
Fit a ship appropriately to wait for the cavalry to arrive.
-or-
Remove the reward and increase the risk for the would-be pirates.
How you choose to do the above things is really up to you. It's part of the learning curve and part of the game. Yes, people like this really suck the fun out of the game for the creator sorts but that's fun for them. So, you can either give them the gank and the tears, or just give them the gank, say nothing and walk away to try again. Maybe you'll do better next time. Personally, I'd hunt their sorry butts down with my free shot at them and make them pay double for taking me on. You have to increase their cost/risk or they will never learn.
Don't be a victim, get even.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
2
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:10:29 -
[179] - Quote
Hi-Sec needs to be purged of the greedy miners that just sit in belts days after day AFK mining for their PLEX(s).
Only through destruction can there be creation....
All praise James 315! |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1054
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:10:48 -
[180] - Quote
This is a great thread! It has everything! 8 pages of pure entertainment!
We got clueless carebears recommending mechanics that are already in the game, Dracvlad playing a sad song for the poor noobies on his tiny violin, and this:
"Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead..."
HAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*gasp*
PFFFFFFFFF LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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