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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
297
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Posted - 2016.07.26 11:49:46 -
[31] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). The ratio is because as suicide gankers they are able to pick their targets to maximize isk efficiency (when they want to). As they can't be in space without being shot, they don't sit out in space when they aren't actively attacking something - so you can't attack them unless you are lucky enough to catch one changing systems to get to their next target.
Therefore almost 100% of their battles are of their own choosing, and they have made (nearly) 100% sure of success before engaging.
This skews their killboard stats to a very positive ratio.
No other group in EVE is 100% devoted to suicide ganking in this way, so other groups have to rely on finding targets they can legally shoot and then engaging them on (more) even footing, risking losses on their own side as they do so. And the groups that minimize risk to get similar isk ratios (see some of the big wardec corps) take longer to get to those numbers, because they still have to wait for legal war targets.
Mystery solved. |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
829
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Posted - 2016.07.26 11:51:40 -
[32] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all).
It's amazing how one can rack up one's solo kill stats when one chooses squishy targets that can't shoot back.
We're not talking about 1337 peeveepee 1v1 at the sun gudfight style combat here. We're talking about hisec SUICIDE GANKING.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
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Posted - 2016.07.26 11:56:43 -
[33] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy. CCP Falcon's stance towards ganking was the same long before CODE came onto the scene... I think you'd be better off sticking to complaining about the mechanics and not trying to craft devious conspiracy theories - they are just going to make you look like a crazy person. But I am a little crazy.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
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Posted - 2016.07.26 11:59:54 -
[34] - Quote
OK, a lot of kills are on very squishy targets, like mining frigates, Covertors, Retreivers, Hulks and Mac's, all those can be taken down with one or two Catalysts, one if the person has fitted for yield.
The freighter ganks make up based on number of freighters x 3.5bn about 13% of the Goons entire ISK value in terms of kills, I did that calculation earlier today when speaking to a contact about Goons use of freighter ganking to make their killboard look more reasonable.
If you look at the ship ratio it is 57.7%, if you look at the ISK ratio it is 70%, that means that their actual ISk efficiency is really 63%.
And if you did that analysts with recent events you will find the goons are running at around 40% efficiency over the last year.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2016.07.26 12:14:34 -
[35] - Quote
I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
635
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:18:02 -
[36] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. The forum isn't a personal messaging service to CCP employees, nor is CCP Falcon the only person who can answer the question you asked.
There are several correct answers in the thread already. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:18:55 -
[37] - Quote
Dont you think that Falcon may be a little more cereful what he writes now, because he knows that his words will be used against him?
And yes, he wouldnt really write something new.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Yarosara Ruil
493
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Posted - 2016.07.26 12:22:26 -
[38] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all).
Because CODE are risk adverse?
You can be risk adverse and still lose ships and ISK. Most of CODE has figured out the math on how to maximize their ganking attempts for maximum loss on the defender side with minimum loss on the agressor side.
They moan and hiss about the "one more nerf" narrative they got going now. Is it true? Not really, since CCP is beating around the bush to maintain the fragile ecosystem they have in Highsec. Highsec exists currently as a deterrent, so that new players are herded to the real game, that being either Nullsec, Lowsec or Wormhole space (despite CCP's past atempts to make life in there impossible). So technically, Highsec is not the real EVE experience. It's barely a tutorial level. Now we just have to convince the vast majority of the player base that this is the case.
Now, imagine an enemy who's sole joy in life is to make others miserable. Their entire raison d'etre is to cause as much damage as possible, while losing as little as possible. That's CODE right now. Their enjoyment from the game comes from the little cereal box badges of honor they get when they gank someone, the Killmails, and the strife they cause to other people's EVE experience. The more tears and rage they cause, the more success they have as a ganker.
This leads to untold levels of toxicity. To a ganker, a member of CODE, other players aren't part of a community themselves are part of. They are prey. Less than human beings. Pawns in their game to be exploited and disposed of, and watch them squirm as they are hopelessly preyed upon. For every heart warming story of how awesome this community is, there are a dozen untold stories about how low the community can slump into thanks to genetlemen like CODE. Their minerbumping site is a testament to how deranged they are in this roleplaying experience they engage themselves in.
The recently ganked Luxury Yatch with hundreds of injectors inside? There were people salivating at the potencial salt of such a loss. When the owner of the Yatch shrugged it off, people were flabbergasted. Robbed even, of the drama potential of a mental breakdown from this person.
I for one think that the existence of Killmails are the sole cause of this. No other game catalogues losses like this and allow for such ridicule and coveting of battle records. Killmails are a cancer, that motivate people to pursue no other goal in the game other than getting more of them, and their worth as players is measured in the amount of green they have in their records. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:25:11 -
[39] - Quote
You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17691
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:25:24 -
[40] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy.
Only thing being exploited here is other peoples greed and stupidity. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17691
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Posted - 2016.07.26 12:26:29 -
[41] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know).
The answer is simple.
They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:26:33 -
[42] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer.
You would be better off doing a thread on Reddit to be honest.
PS Ignore baltec1, he was whining the other day about it not being profitable to gank T2 fitted mining ships
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
636
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:41:12 -
[43] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). You're just fishing for a comment to confirm your own bias, or to be outraged over.
The efficiency of CODE isn't achieved alone. It requires people to do stupid things. Unfortunately, lots of people do those stupid things, so really they get the consequence they walk into. Those people are every bit as involved in CODE's success as CODE is. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2983
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:43:30 -
[44] - Quote
Well, I'm wondering what's in the Kool Aid at this point.
Why the high ratio of success? They scan their targets. They know their fits. They know their routes. They plan accordingly. They organize. They control when and where the fight happens. So the end result is predictably one sided. The autopiloting badger loses to the catalyst the moment the cat opens fire. it's already been decided because the defensive measures the badger could have taken have not been taken.
You can't really compare it to lowsec FW, it's a whole different animal. You don't need a dev to tell you this, hell, you shouldn't even need me to tell you this. It's not unfair, and to be honest any kind of passive aggressive defense of derps who're too busy watching netflix or pr0nhub is not merited.
They win because of stupid, lazy and greedy.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:02 -
[45] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). The answer is simple. They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. Dont be so sure about that.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17694
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:24 -
[46] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated.
That's because I post realities and don't insult people. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:48 -
[47] - Quote
I'm pretty new to the game, only about half a year.
I tried wh exploration the most, some fw, and some mining, mostly hisec and some gas wh huffing.
Game mechanics are quite balanced for what I saw so far.
So I was pretty curious about this very weird ratio and even more curious because I saw players from this alliance being very hard ( I called them even racists ) when writing on forums.
If they have so big advantages from the players they kill ( and it's the only thing they do when playing ) why they keep insulting them?
They should be so happy for the chance they have.
This made me extremely curious, this it the reason I would like to know a Game Developer opinion about it. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:25 -
[48] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: They are successful in destroying large amounts of ISK because people in highsec carry valuable cargo in under tanked and under supported haulers and/or under tanked, expensive ships.
They target high value kills and find plenty of them because people make choices to provide them with a lot of suitable targets.
In other areas of space (and other people in highsec too) are more careful with the risk they expose themselves to.
+1
The above is as obvious and plain as the nose on your avatars face. And using the very simple tactics and awareness the rest of New Eden that isn't high sec forces you to use, it's very easy to live in high sec and suffer no losses to groups like CODE. My own losses to CODE are summed up as "1 shuttle and 2 pods", even after spending years running missions in a Deadpsace fit Machariel.
But if you explain this to many a high sec player, you won't just get ignored, you will get active resistance at the very idea. "I'm in HIGH SECURITY SPACE!!" They exclaim. "These people shouldn't be able to do what they do in the 1st place!" they whine. "CCP hates my play style!" they cry.
Being ignorant and unaware of your situation while at the same time playing a video game and progressing is not a "play style" btw. Afk haulers and miners are progressing while afk btw, this is the un-discussed root of the entire problem in high sec, it's the real reason why CODE exists, the people who started CODE mask their efforts behind a vale of "we want tears" and "we are doing this for your own good", but the real reason for CODE is it gives people a avenue to strike out against and punish the kinds of people who come in to the game and treat it like it's other MMOs, like the game/CCP/the community 'owes them something'.
I figured that out within 5 minutes of talking to a friend of mine in CODE, yet the vast swath of high sec players have never gotten so much as a glimmer of the truth. Oh well, that's just proof that you can't fix stupid.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:40 -
[49] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
A game developer that did pvp can surely tell me why they are so much better than others on the statistics I think.
There are three kinds of lies.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also, Falcon isn't a dev (that I am aware of) he's the community manager.
Finally, you've been give the reason in the apparent discrepancy. CODE specifically targets very expensive targets in very cheap ships. See here's the rub - the amount of ISK required to kill a freighter doesn't change if the value of the freighter's cargo changes. The "investment" if you will remains more or less constant, while the "return" on that investment (at least in terms of kb stats) can vary wildly.
Take this kill. 30 Talos, all in with fittings, is probably 2.5 billion. That's a ratio of roughly 7 to 1.
The reason you don't see the same sort of figures for other alliances is because they have other activities, such as sov war, that are usually much closer to a 1 to 1 ratio in terms of ISK destroyed versus ISK lost. CODE avoids all that drag on their KB efficiency. The occasional juicy pod also helps push that ratio even higher. This one was roughly 27 to 1.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17694
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:42 -
[50] - Quote
Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:46:52 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people.
You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:50:49 -
[52] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). The answer is simple. They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. Dont be so sure about that.
Pilots of empty frieghters can also be stupid. Many follow the stupid line of thinking of "oh, my frighten is safe because it's empty, i will just auto-pilot it back to jita, no one will bother it.
That's stupid thinking because it violates the simple rule of "if it's in space it's vulnerable, so don't ever fly what you can't afford to lose".
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17696
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:50:55 -
[53] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people. You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time.
If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems. I have exactly zero influence over the mods around here other than possibly having had a pint and a chat with them at some point. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:52:04 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:55:43 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people. You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time. If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems. I have exactly zero influence over the mods around here other than possibly having had a pint and a chat with them at some point.
Yes that one, its enough..., but actually I have a major suspicion about who you really are, if that is true you really ought to be more careful.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
280
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:57:32 -
[56] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer.
as someone already stated: the answer to your questions is in the thread. The problem seems IMO that you do/did not really understand what Code is.
So, no use for a dev wasting his time. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2984
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:57:58 -
[57] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.
Assassins of Joy? Punishers of the Inattentive? Darwin's Stinky Pinky? "You done goofed"?
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:58:13 -
[58] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems.
No No No, it must be some conspiracy!!!! That's the only thing that explains it! |
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
137
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:59:05 -
[59] - Quote
"Now, imagine an enemy who's sole joy in life is to make others miserable. Their entire raison d'etre is to cause as much damage as possible, while losing as little as possible. That's CODE right now. Their enjoyment from the game comes from the little cereal box badges of honor they get when they gank someone, the Killmails, and the strife they cause to other people's EVE experience. The more tears and rage they cause, the more success they have as a ganker."
lol
The "cereal box badge of honor" is funny
It left me visualizing a player/ganker opening a loot container and exclaiming "WTS! all that effort and all I get is a stupid decoder ring"
Thanks for the laugh with my morning coffee
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:00:21 -
[60] - Quote
embrel wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. as someone already stated: the answer to your questions is in the thread. The problem seems IMO that you do/did not really understand what Code is. So, no use for a dev wasting his time.
I don't think a Developer is wasting time when giving and answer to a question (unless it's an incredibly stupid question, but here isk numbers are so incredibly huge and the ratio is so incredibly high I think the question is not stupid).
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