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Tori Valette
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:20:20 -
[1] - Quote
Moving along to a new home across New Eden is pure ebola.
If you actually do it with 8 Carriers, 2 supers, 2 dreads, and a JF, then you will instantly realize you need to do 1 of 2 things in your eve life.
1. Find a space place you like, and never move again.
2. Get rid of all your capital assets before you move again.
3 days to move 2 regions is not only insane, but it lacks anything other than a necessity to literally play Eve 24/7.
Sorry CCP, but I already invest enough time and money into your sandbox.
Jump Fatigue has literally made invasions, peaceful redeployments.
If your enemy can un-anchor literally every citadel and POS before you get there, what is the point of a war game that only mirrors a UN Deployment?
No shots fired, bad guys run off and set up elsewhere.
Only thing that comes of this is the ability to save lots of Isk and literally own 0 capitals.
Fatigue needs to be fixed.
Either increase the jump range back to 15 LY and keep the fatigue, or lose the fatigue and keep it at 5. One or the other, but the current game play sucks. Period.
Thanks CCP!
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:28:58 -
[2] - Quote
Tori Valette wrote:Moving along to a new home across New Eden is pure ebola.
If you actually do it with 8 Carriers, 2 supers, 2 dreads, and a JF, then you will instantly realize you need to do 1 of 2 things in your eve life.
1. Find a space place you like, and never move again.
2. Get rid of all your capital assets before you move again.
3 days to move 2 regions is not only insane, but it lacks anything other than a necessity to literally play Eve 24/7.
Sorry CCP, but I already invest enough time and money into your sandbox.
Jump Fatigue has literally made invasions, peaceful redeployments.
If your enemy can un-anchor literally every citadel and POS before you get there, what is the point of a war game that only mirrors a UN Deployment?
No shots fired, bad guys run off and set up elsewhere.
Only thing that comes of this is the ability to save lots of Isk and literally own 0 capitals.
Fatigue needs to be fixed.
Either increase the jump range back to 15 LY and keep the fatigue, or lose the fatigue and keep it at 5. One or the other, but the current game play sucks. Period.
Thanks CCP!
Actually either of those two things would make it useless at preventing the very thing it was designed to stop - ridiculous levels of power projection in short amounts of time.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1137
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:29:55 -
[3] - Quote
Oh boo hoo... Moving is hard! Now imaging having to do all that in Hi Sec where there are no jumps at all and you have to use gates the whole way..... In a bowhead or charon.... Through multiple systems that are over 150 AU in length. Been there, done that, you have no idea how easy it us when you can jump, even if you have to feel with fatigue.
By the way... That same jump fatigue you complain about is also why every single enemy capital ship didn't come running and harass you every strong the way. They wanted to be able to get home without encountering huge jump fatigue penalties. |
kiser horgan
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:31:17 -
[4] - Quote
Eve basically has become ''Logistical Nightmare Online'' |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8420
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:34:18 -
[5] - Quote
Doc's tiny violin.. let him play it for you.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Locko DeLuniverso
Generalitat Valenciana
0
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:36:54 -
[6] - Quote
Completly true. The jump fatigue could be ok for some sub-cap ships to not abuse the bridge thing, but is a non-sense in the way wars are done. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
91
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:42:56 -
[7] - Quote
Shoulda kept your space? Just came from a deployment several regions away. Had fun. Would/will do again. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
18
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:49:53 -
[8] - Quote
Maybe if you would have fought for your space, you wouldn't have to move so much crap now? Just a thought... |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3901
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:50:16 -
[9] - Quote
Find people to fight that are closer to you.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Cade Windstalker
508
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:02:41 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe lose more of your stuff fighting to defend your space before moving next time? Certainly makes moving easier!
Seriously though, I can appreciate the issues with moving, but the issues with rare long distance moves like this get trumped by the lack of fun that was "oh, we're in the hemisphere of the game with that one group with tons of supers (pick one). Lets see how long it takes for us to get dropped by them when we go roaming!" The ridiculousness that was old capital force projection was just bad for the game.
I literally once saw PL drop Supers to kill a single Tengu on a grid with dozens of other ships on it (all cheaper) just because they were bored and it was shiny... that was funny like once, not the tenth time. |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14355
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:10:49 -
[11] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Maybe lose more of your stuff fighting to defend your space before moving next time? Certainly makes moving easier! Seriously though, I can appreciate the issues with moving, but the issues with rare long distance moves like this get trumped by the lack of fun that was "oh, we're in the hemisphere of the game with that one group with tons of supers (pick one). Lets see how long it takes for us to get dropped by them when we go roaming!" The ridiculousness that was old capital force projection was just bad for the game. I literally once saw PL drop Supers to kill a single Tengu on a grid with dozens of other ships on it (all cheaper) just because they were bored and it was shiny... that was funny like once, not the tenth time.
Sure, teleporting across the map was bad, but the current jump fatigue regime is worse. ll it did really was create a kind of lcoal supremacy that no one (even if they have a super fleet) can come and fight against).
I experienced that on Jun 28 (on month ago) when PL dropped a Nyx on my Navy Vexor..... So Jump Fatigue didn't solve any PL boredom issues.
they don't need to kill Jump Fatigue, but they do need to loosen it up a bit, I got 5 days of fatigue just moving to a new home no long ago, it's ridiculous. |
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
137
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:25:09 -
[12] - Quote
kiser horgan wrote:Eve basically has become ''Logistical Nightmare Online''
Now that is humorous. Glad to see Goons still have a sense of humor
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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aldhura
The Locker Room
79
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:34:54 -
[13] - Quote
I bet your ganking alt ganks poor HS transporters in HS like Lady Ayeipsia ??? I can guarantee more isk is lost to HS ganks than that of the "poor" isk farmers in null having to move cause the couldn't undock to fight. |
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
18
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:46:27 -
[14] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:By the way... That same jump fatigue you complain about is also why every single enemy capital ship didn't come running and harass you every strong the way. They wanted to be able to get home without encountering huge jump fatigue penalties.
It was the citadel tethering that protected them. If the CFC super fleet was trapped everyone is coming to kill it, fatigue or no fatigue. |
Cade Windstalker
512
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:07:30 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Maybe lose more of your stuff fighting to defend your space before moving next time? Certainly makes moving easier! Seriously though, I can appreciate the issues with moving, but the issues with rare long distance moves like this get trumped by the lack of fun that was "oh, we're in the hemisphere of the game with that one group with tons of supers (pick one). Lets see how long it takes for us to get dropped by them when we go roaming!" The ridiculousness that was old capital force projection was just bad for the game. I literally once saw PL drop Supers to kill a single Tengu on a grid with dozens of other ships on it (all cheaper) just because they were bored and it was shiny... that was funny like once, not the tenth time. Sure, teleporting across the map was bad, but the current jump fatigue regime is worse. ll it did really was create a kind of lcoal supremacy that no one (even if they have a super fleet) can come and fight against). I experienced that on Jun 28 (on month ago) when PL dropped a Nyx on my Navy Vexor..... So Jump Fatigue didn't solve any PL boredom issues. they don't need to kill Jump Fatigue, but they do need to loosen it up a bit, I got 5 days of fatigue just moving to a new home no long ago, it's ridiculous.
Not sure I agree here.
Sure you still have bored supers, but their area of impact is much smaller, and it's perfectly possible that if you'd been bait that Nyx might have gotten dropped by a bunch of Dreads and a HIC and gone down in a ball of fire, as so many other Supers have in recent months.
It's also very possible to move large cap and Super fleets around if you actually want to engage someone with their own large Capital or Super assets. MBC certainly did it when they kicked goons out of the north, they just turned out to not have to in retrospect. It also means you have to actually commit your Caps and Supers if you want to reach out and touch someone, because you can't just have them halfway across the universe in half an hour with a few well placed Cyno alts.
IMO, while the current situation is a bit frustrating for Capital and Supers pilots the previous one was more frustrating overall for *everyone*. If Supers and Caps in general were demonstrably not being used because of this then I'd agree, but they very definitely are.
In fact post-Jump Fatigue there was a distinct up-tick in kills *and losses* for all combat capitals that's sustained pretty well over the last two years. I'll see about throwing together a graph based on the Z-kill stats when I get home because I was actually a bit surprised at how much and how distinctly things changed before and after the Nov 4th 2014 change. |
Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
402
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:23:33 -
[16] - Quote
Working exactly as intended. Capital ships are supposed to be relatively rare, not easy to move, and require a full fleet to fly with. Now we use them to gatecamp frigates. If you want to fight someone across the map, use a subcap, or accept that you're trying to move one of the biggest, slowest ships in game a ridiculous length.
Living outside of HS is supposed to mean you need to think about where you live and be willing to defend what you own. Moving means you either didn't think it through well enough, or couldn't defend it. You want to move? Sell your ships, go out in a blaze of glory losing them, or accept it might take a while to travel. That's a good thing. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
327
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:26:45 -
[17] - Quote
Should have undocked to defend your space.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Chronos Thiesant
Deep Sky Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:32:31 -
[18] - Quote
Fatigue is a brilliant idea in principle but the current scaling method is totally ridiculous. It builds up to crazy amounts far too quickly. |
ugh zug
115
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:54:13 -
[19] - Quote
Moving assets around in EVE is a *****. That's why I don't move stuff; I just let it sit there and buy new stuff at my new location.
if there is one thing i hate in eve more than anything else, that be managing assets. whether it be by gate travel or cynos moving **** takes way too much time. CCP will not change this because 1 hauling contracts are real 2 cargo ships need a role 3 providing opportunities for pvpers.
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2149
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:57:56 -
[20] - Quote
The OP has all of the makings of a good space country music song.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17084
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Posted - 2016.07.26 22:03:05 -
[21] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:The OP has all of the makings of a good space country music song. All thats missing are rumours of domestic abuse and/or substance abuse.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2149
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Posted - 2016.07.26 22:16:28 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:The OP has all of the makings of a good space country music song. All thats missing are rumours of domestic abuse and/or substance abuse.
That is very true...but this is EVE, it always can be arranged.
Edit: A word
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
254
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Posted - 2016.07.26 22:44:13 -
[23] - Quote
So what i got out of this thread is "CCPLEASE! Make it so i can cross two regions quickly with a small cap fleet again!"
No.
Fire sell your stuff or spend time moving it around like everyone else. Stop being a hoarder. You dont need that many caps. It will silly to buy 8 carriers. Who needs 8 carriers?At most 3 carriers is plenty. 1 to rat, 1 to pvp, 1 as a spare. Ill give you 3 billion for the other 5 if they are rigged, have mods, and fully stocked with fighters. High mileage, dents, scratches, and rust is ok. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
225
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Posted - 2016.07.26 22:48:06 -
[24] - Quote
Not sure if this is possible, but maybe they could make an implant that reduces the effect by 50% or greater, costs a lot (>500m), and has a 30 day per character cool down (works for X hours). Or some kind of timer anyway that would prevent people from just reusing them over and over again.
It would only really be for ships that gain lots of fatigue during these types of moves in null/lowsec. Also, if you unplugged it the cd would remain, and the cd could be >30 days as well, say even up to 90 days. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2908
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Posted - 2016.07.26 23:11:58 -
[25] - Quote
Gotta say I have some sympathy with OP. And yet the problem of power projection remains. But I can't help but feel that a solution which makes you not want to play the game because it is just too painful is not the correct one.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
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Posted - 2016.07.26 23:19:24 -
[26] - Quote
Have no fear, I am here to save you!
*\o/* Buying all capitals for 50% of hull value (to compensate for my pain moving them) *\o/* |
Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Solyaris Chtonium
22
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Posted - 2016.07.26 23:26:54 -
[27] - Quote
Looks like a lot of firepower, OP. Kind of begs the question why you guys did not stand and fight. Yes, you may have lost it, but it would have taken a lot of time and effort to wear that much down, and at least you would have had the satisfaction of blowing stuff up with it rather than having to watch it slowly, slowly retreat across the quadrant. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
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Posted - 2016.07.26 23:29:57 -
[28] - Quote
Loucxious Leopold wrote:Looks like a lot of firepower, OP. Kind of begs the question why you guys did not stand and fight. Yes, you may have lost it, but it would have taken a lot of time and effort to wear that much down, and at least you would have had the satisfaction of blowing stuff up with it rather than having to watch it slowly, slowly retreat across the quadrant. OP means his targets packed up and left before he was done moving ships... |
Cade Windstalker
514
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Posted - 2016.07.27 00:08:17 -
[29] - Quote
So, I promised graphs and stuff.
Graphs and stuff!
Those are normalized graphs of kill and loss amounts for the four different types of combat capitals since this time in 2011. There's also raw data off of zKillboards class pages for the four classes going back to 2007, but if the graphs go back that far the normalization starts to get a bit weird since there were so few capital kills and losses before around 2010.
Some interesting things that stood out:
- Capital use has been steadily increasing over time, and while it's somewhat debatable if Jump Fatigue accelerated their use in combat it definitely didn't slow it down.
- Cap use drops off heavily in the summer only to pick back up in the winter more or less like clockwork. (Honestly makes the last three months of Carrier activity kind of terrifying IMO. These are supposed to be their slow months...)
- Supercarriers show the least change and least increase over time on average but spike a lot at more or less random intervals.
- Titan use in terms of both kills and losses showed the biggest increase between Pre and Post Jump Fatigue. Again, hard to say if this is a result of the change or just a natural consequence of proliferation, but there's a pretty clear demarcation at around the time the JF change was made.
- Carriers also showed a noticeable spike in use metrics after the change, though there was also a drop off until around Citadel shortly after.
- Dreadnoughts show the least impact from the changes and the most steady increase in used over time, even going back to before 2011.
- Average efficiency barely changes before and after the change.
So, from this I think it's fairly safe to conclude that Jump Fatigue hasn't killed Capital warfare, or if it did then it came back as a Tank from Left 4 Dead.
That said, I'm not saying it couldn't be made less frustrating or a little more user friendly, but I don't think the answer is "remove Jump Fatigue/Range Nerfs" since that just makes the other one not really matter. |
TheVirus32
Trois Etoiles The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2016.07.27 08:19:10 -
[30] - Quote
I agree with OP, jump fatigue + range nerf is overkill whenever you need to move caps, and whenever you need to purchase a new cap somewhere outside of your immediate viscinity you end up thinking "there's no way I'm wasting half of my day off moving a nidh around", because yeah, 12 jumps at over 30 minutes of fatigue each is AIDS.
So now whenever one of us becomes prey to PL (made possible by your local Blue spa+»zGäó. Blue spa+»zGäó - for a lighter wallet) losing the ship isn't all that bad in comparison to HAVING TO FIND A NEW ONE despite caps being sold all over new eden o_o... It makes absolutely ZERO sense...
Ore compression to the rescue I guess --'... At least give us a 15LY cap-moving cap or something x) |
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