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Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.07.28 05:48:08 -
[1] - Quote
If I want to do fast tackle to help out in PVP, are Polycarbon Engine Housing or HVO's better to put in my Condor's rigs? I want to eventually work into a Crow. Am I thinking the right way on this? Trying to understand the pvp game mechanics better.
Thanks! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4463
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Posted - 2016.07.28 09:19:13 -
[2] - Quote
Hi there,
both choices make sense for tackle.
As a Condor already warps fast, speed/agility rigs will often be the better choice.
Also consider tanking rigs, because suicide tackle is glorious but if you die too fast your selfless sacrifice could be vain.
Best adivce is to fit something reasonable, then go out and use it as much as you can. You'll understand by yourself how to tweak your fit based on the actual situations you'll find yourself in.
Happy pew pew
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
646
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Posted - 2016.07.30 14:41:41 -
[3] - Quote
As a rule of thumb, if you're flying suicide anything, you ought to carry some exotic dancers in your cargo. When they kill you, you always want them to slightly cringe when they look at the killmail.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1610
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Posted - 2016.07.30 17:23:17 -
[4] - Quote
people underestimate how important warp speed is when going for tackle, condor is agile enough and you won't gain any significant milestones by adding polycarbons. However landing on someone quicker than they might expect will net you kills that you probably wouldn't have had before. |
Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.07.30 20:02:11 -
[5] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:people underestimate how important warp speed is when going for tackle, condor is agile enough and you won't gain any significant milestones by adding polycarbons. However landing on someone quicker than they might expect will net you kills that you probably wouldn't have had before.
Thanks, so I should focus more on speed. Let the condors natural agility work itself.
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Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.07.31 00:19:48 -
[6] - Quote
I see MWD increases my signature radius. Does this mean guns can track me better and hit? AB will make me harder to hit, but slower to reach target and grab point. What's better? I'm thinking speed. |
Wanda Fayne
243
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Posted - 2016.07.31 12:44:16 -
[7] - Quote
The condor is usually a long-point ship with mwd, due to its speed. Condor will survive best against turret ships so you might consider a tracking disruptor to mitigate incoming damage. You would want to keep your orbit at around 20km and keep transversal up with your mwd. Do not get within scram/web range or you will be melted.
I would fit an explosive resist rig, Warrior drones will typically be used against you. Watch out for light missile boats and Tristans
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1346
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Posted - 2016.07.31 12:59:40 -
[8] - Quote
Astra Starshine wrote:I see MWD increases my signature radius. Does this mean guns can track me better and hit? AB will make me harder to hit, but slower to reach target and grab point. What's better? I'm thinking speed.
This is correct, a mwd will increase your signature radius. You can fit a Quad Lif 5mn mwd for somewhat lower signature radius increase. When you fly a Crow later, do the same.
More speed is usually a good idea but never fit an ab on a Condor until you have more experience in your approach and orbit tactic. Be very careful at the 30km distance mark since you have to consider your momentum speed can work against you.
Use rocket launchers against drones that want to make your job hard. While a Condor cannot do much damage, it will be enough to remove small drones from your tail.
At the speed your Condor will be moving even small turrets will have a hard time hitting you.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2016.07.31 14:24:02 -
[9] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
More speed is usually a good idea but never fit an ab on a Condor until you have more experience in your approach and orbit tactic. Be very careful at the 30km distance mark since you have to consider your momentum speed can work against you.
I watched some videos by E-University on transversal approaching targets, using a spiral technique. At what point does a person shut off the MWD and let momentum speed take over? Say your target is 100km away and I turn on my MWD to catch him. When I reach half the distance, I shut down MWD? |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1616
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Posted - 2016.07.31 15:09:35 -
[10] - Quote
there's no hard fast rule like that, everything depends on the situation. If he's 100km away and moving away from you at 2km/s and you shut down your mwd halfway you're just going to be left floundering.
To be honest most interceptors keep their mwd on since the speed/sig ratio is still good enough to evade most weaponry apart from small or rapid light missiles. |
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
442
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Posted - 2016.07.31 15:13:18 -
[11] - Quote
Astra Starshine wrote:elitatwo wrote:
More speed is usually a good idea but never fit an ab on a Condor until you have more experience in your approach and orbit tactic. Be very careful at the 30km distance mark since you have to consider your momentum speed can work against you.
I watched some videos by E-University on transversal approaching targets, using a spiral technique. At what point does a person shut off the MWD and let momentum speed take over? Say your target is 100km away and I turn on my MWD to catch him. When I reach half the distance, I shut down MWD?
If you just long point him you never shut it off. With a scram the second you scram him usually works. |
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
50
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Posted - 2016.07.31 15:13:58 -
[12] - Quote
That's only if the target is a battleship (or bigger) and not moving.... For smaller targets that try to kill you and/ or run away, you want to overheat to move faster past the wide arm of the spiral. |
Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2016.07.31 16:46:26 -
[13] - Quote
Thanks for all the advice here. I know its just a tackle, but I like to get as much info as possible so I do it right :) I decided to go with the HVO rigs to push my speed more. I'm sure once I start actually doing it in game, I will figure out what works and what gets me killed lol.
Oh and when going after missile boats, you just fly straight at them instead of the corkscrews towards turret ships?
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1347
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Posted - 2016.07.31 19:35:36 -
[14] - Quote
Astra Starshine wrote:Thanks for all the advice here. I know its just a tackle, but I like to get as much info as possible so I do it right :) I decided to go with the HVO rigs to push my speed more. I'm sure once I start actually doing it in game, I will figure out what works and what gets me killed lol.
Oh and when going after missile boats, you just fly straight at them instead of the corkscrews towards turret ships?
Yep exactly. Just press the orbit button and let the autopilot do the approach for you, unless you approach a Caracal, Cerberus, Kestrel, Orthrus, Garmur or talwar, you will be fine. The ships listed are on your no, no list.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1616
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Posted - 2016.07.31 19:53:51 -
[15] - Quote
Do not under any circumstance do what Elita just said.
Hitting orbit and letting the game pilot for you is a sure fire way to get yourself oneshot by whatever you're trying to tackle.
Missile ships are actually the one type of ship you CAN do this to as transversal velocity and tracking does not matter and only speed and sig come into play.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1347
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Posted - 2016.08.01 03:03:41 -
[16] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Do not under any circumstance do what Elita just said.
Hitting orbit and letting the game pilot for you is a sure fire way to get yourself oneshot by whatever you're trying to tackle.
Missile ships are actually the one type of ship you CAN do this to as transversal velocity and tracking does not matter and only speed and sig come into play.
Tsukino, did you even read the question?
The question was, if she can hit approach / orbit on a missile boat and the answer is yes for all missile boats but the ones I listed. It is no for any turret boat.
It is no longer funny being brighter than everyone else and I know, you hate me for it. Rest assured I do know what I am doing at all times. I also know a lot more stuff than everyone else.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1618
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Posted - 2016.08.01 15:17:37 -
[17] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Do not under any circumstance do what Elita just said.
Hitting orbit and letting the game pilot for you is a sure fire way to get yourself oneshot by whatever you're trying to tackle.
Missile ships are actually the one type of ship you CAN do this to as transversal velocity and tracking does not matter and only speed and sig come into play.
Tsukino, did you even read the question? The question was, if she can hit approach / orbit on a missile boat and the answer is yes for all missile boats but the ones I listed. It is no for any turret boat. It is no longer funny being brighter than everyone else and I know, you hate me for it. Rest assured I do know what I am doing at all times. I also know a lot more stuff than everyone else.
Can you even read your own writing?
"unless you approach a Caracal, Cerberus, Kestrel, Orthrus, Garmur or talwar, you will be fine."
Those ships are, wait for it, MISSILE based.
You're just confusing people at this point. |
Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2016.08.01 15:58:02 -
[18] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote: Can you even read your own writing?
"unless you approach a Caracal, Cerberus, Kestrel, Orthrus, Garmur or talwar, you will be fine."
Those ships are, wait for it, MISSILE based.
You're just confusing people at this point.
I think she meant that those ships could easily take me out, do not approach them? Perhaps I'm wrong.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1349
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Posted - 2016.08.01 17:53:24 -
[19] - Quote
Astra Starshine wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote: Can you even read your own writing?
"unless you approach a Caracal, Cerberus, Kestrel, Orthrus, Garmur or talwar, you will be fine."
Those ships are, wait for it, MISSILE based.
You're just confusing people at this point.
I think she meant that those ships could easily take me out, do not approach them? Perhaps I'm wrong.
That is exactly what I meant. Those will take you out before you reach long point range. You can however approach a claymore, typhoon, Damnation - with caution -, Sacrilege - with caution -, Golem - with caution and so on.
Basically every ship that is likely to use light missiles, you should stay away from.
Just don't approach a Raven with me at the helm.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 16:23:04 -
[20] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Astra Starshine wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote: Can you even read your own writing?
"unless you approach a Caracal, Cerberus, Kestrel, Orthrus, Garmur or talwar, you will be fine."
Those ships are, wait for it, MISSILE based.
You're just confusing people at this point.
I think she meant that those ships could easily take me out, do not approach them? Perhaps I'm wrong. That is exactly what I meant. Those will take you out before you reach long point range. You can however approach a claymore, typhoon, Damnation - with caution -, Sacrilege - with caution -, Golem - with caution and so on. Basically every ship that is likely to use light missiles, you should stay away from. Just don't approach a Raven with me at the helm.
So my high speed mitigates incoming damage from missiles, not really any transversal? If I read this right.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1621
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Posted - 2016.08.02 21:23:07 -
[21] - Quote
missiles only care about 3 things:
your sig radius your velocity your distance
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Paranoid Loyd
9337
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Posted - 2016.08.02 23:41:55 -
[22] - Quote
@ Elita & Suki
I consider you both to be good posters but your recent increase of bickering is degrading the quality of your posts.
You're both pretty and you're both smart, please stop bickering.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 04:05:11 -
[23] - Quote
Guns care about sig radius, angular velocity, and distance. Angular velocity comes from transversal velocity and distance. If you are facetanking or autopilot orbiting from far away from your target, transversal (and angular) velocity are near zero, so you die fast. Then there's the optimal range-falloff mechanic. If you're outside optimal, the falloff mechanic comes into play.
Missiles care about sig radius, your speed, and if you're in range. Light missiles care a lot less about sig radius and speed than heavier missiles, which is why you shouldn't mess with light missile spammers unless a friend has serious missile disruption.
You could always run dual prop mods if they fit: once you're in range, it will be a little tricker to snipe you with an active afterburner than MWD.
A signature :o
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
443
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Posted - 2016.08.03 04:45:27 -
[24] - Quote
Its either transversal and distannce or angular. Otherwise (as you stated yourself) you are repeating yourself. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1353
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Posted - 2016.08.03 07:08:19 -
[25] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:@ Elita & Suki
I consider you both to be good posters but your recent increase of bickering is degrading the quality of your posts.
You're both pretty and you're both smart, please stop bickering.
This is something I really do not want to do. And yes I know Tsukino is smart, so are you, there is no doubt in that. I am just really upset that all my observations are getting questioned all the time as of late.
When I tell you about something I have noticed very recent and even have all the logs to back it up, I am called a liar or giving bad advice. I did answer all questions asked by the letter. Sometimes the questions asked may need more information or they were not the questions they want an answer to.
However, I did answer the questions to the best of my knowledge and experience.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
443
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 02:15:48 -
[26] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:@ Elita & Suki
I consider you both to be good posters but your recent increase of bickering is degrading the quality of your posts.
You're both pretty and you're both smart, please stop bickering. This is something I really do not want to do. And yes I know Tsukino is smart, so are you, there is no doubt in that. I am just really upset that all my observations are getting questioned all the time as of late. When I tell you about something I have noticed very recent and even have all the logs to back it up, I am called a liar or giving bad advice. I did answer all questions asked by the letter. Sometimes the questions asked may need more information or they were not the questions they want an answer to. However, I did answer the questions to the best of my knowledge and experience.
Dont asnwer wrong or do it in a very misleading fashion then. |
Astra Starshine
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2016.08.04 02:48:26 -
[27] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:@ Elita & Suki
I consider you both to be good posters but your recent increase of bickering is degrading the quality of your posts.
You're both pretty and you're both smart, please stop bickering. This is something I really do not want to do. And yes I know Tsukino is smart, so are you, there is no doubt in that. I am just really upset that all my observations are getting questioned all the time as of late. When I tell you about something I have noticed very recent and even have all the logs to back it up, I am called a liar or giving bad advice. I did answer all questions asked by the letter. Sometimes the questions asked may need more information or they were not the questions they want an answer to. However, I did answer the questions to the best of my knowledge and experience.
I think you're awesome and helped me a lot with your answers. so thank you!
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May Arethusa
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
189
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Posted - 2016.08.05 04:13:10 -
[28] - Quote
While the Condor is a great starting point, the Crow is pretty awful as a fleet interceptor. Compared to the others, it is slower, less agile, and doesn't tank as well. It can also be a pain to fit. While it might serve as an introduction, you should train to use another as soon as possible. The Stiletto is much more versatile, can fit decent armour or shield tank, can be fit to insta-lock while maintaining that tank, and performs marginally better than the Crow. If missiles are your thing, the Malediction is substantially better than the Crow. The Ares is just a Malediction with turret slots.
As to your original question, they both have their uses. Hyperspacials are situationally useful, great for keeping up or outrunning small ships across short distances. Anything larger than your Condor will be warping and aligning slower than you, so it's neither here nor there, you're just increasing that gap. Fitting them might make you warp like an interceptor, but once you land on grid that benefit is lost and you're back to being a T1 frig. A T1 frig missing the speed and agility it needs to stay alive. Getting point is one thing, staying alive long enough for it to mean anything is another matter entirely. You should bear that in mind.
To clarify what others have said, missile boats will be problematic for your Condor. Specifically anything fitted with Rapid Lights. Similarly, drone boats can be an issue depending on if the pilot was smart enough to carry light drones or not. Solo Battleships will almost invariably have a heavy neut, which will leave you dead in the water even at the edge of your point range. Using the orbit button against brawling turret-based ships is fine after you've made your intial approach, and kiting turret-based ships once they've been scrammed. You are far from safe though, if your tranversal drops and they land a good hit, go back to manually piloting until they switch to an easier target. If you're the first on field or the only tackle, shoot their drones as these are your primary concern. If you have other tackle frigs with you, shooting drones is still a good idea, but you're free to pull range once you know someone else has point and kite the drones away from your fleet. Be aligned, and only warp when you need to.
There's like... a bunch of other stuff too, but that should get you started.
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