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Seraphim Risen
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
92
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Posted - 2016.07.28 15:14:36 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to discuss our friendly DED overlord and what I see as favoritism. In before thread lock and delete. As a capsuleer, I realize freedom of expression is critical. However, two pilots above all others have proven they are willing to use lies, threats, and toxicity incessantly in threads about everything from baked goods to madlibs. And yet, if someone criticizes them, or suggests to others they avoid these two, it is "going too far". It is clear that our DED friend, Aux Aliette, really appreciates the two loudest instigators. It is inherently unfair to others that they are allowed to continue their loud disruptions while everyone else is gagged for the slightest mis-step.
I'd like a new moderator, one that is actually impartial, and for this one removed.
Never not badpost.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1269
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Posted - 2016.07.28 15:20:49 -
[2] - Quote
It's the first ban he has given out since he announced that he will brandish the banning prod. The two persons mentioned hasn't posted anything since the announcement (except that Kim post in the announcement thread). I say, wait and see. If the case repeats in the next week or month or so, we can then declare riot season.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8509
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Posted - 2016.07.28 15:43:35 -
[3] - Quote
Was it a ban? I'd assumed it was a thread closure and warning.
That said, hm.
On one hand, I understand the desire to be even-handed, and to allow pilots to suffer the reputational blowback from their interactions with others. I assume this is why almost two years of constant Kim derailments and harassment in my threads-- usually concerning IKAME, ARC, or anything we touch --has merited no intervention, even when Kim's closest associates are brought into play in a targeted fashion.
On the other hand, there have been back channel rumblings about how 'coordinated reporting campaigns will result in bans,' to paraphrase, presumably because of reports on Kim's actions.
And so here we have Aliette closing a thread resulting from reputational blowback, while also failing to act against repeated transgressions by Kim in the past. What's more, Kim's presence is such that even people who disagree with her strongly sometimes won't engage with her on these forums, because of how thoroughly she closes off conversation in a thread where she's engaged.
Aliette's lack of willingness to police the actions of Diana Kim has resulted in a chilling effect on this forum.
So-- I wonder. Has Aliette warned Kim to tone it down?
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Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
656
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Posted - 2016.07.28 15:46:03 -
[4] - Quote
It was a warning.
I have no problem with the application of the rule and the warning I received, however I do expect such rules to be applied evenly.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8511
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Posted - 2016.07.28 15:48:25 -
[5] - Quote
Time will tell.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
657
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:01:12 -
[6] - Quote
You know what? Now that I look at this, I realized that my post was a full 3 days before our DED moderator friend made his stately arrival. Now I know what the argument will be: the rules were on the book long before then. And you are right, they were!
So where is the ex post facto enforcement of these rules for the literal 2 years that Diana Kim has spent mercilessly harassing people in a much more vitriolic (and frankly less dashingly humorous) manner?
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8516
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:06:33 -
[7] - Quote
Mm. Let's see how this plays out. I can only assume that Kim was given a warning on her past behavior, hence her relative quiet these past several days.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Seraphim Risen
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
97
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:08:29 -
[8] - Quote
I can only assume I'll unjustly be warned and/or receive a ban from posting messages here for pointing out this unequal application of rules and bylaws.
Never not badpost.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1304
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:17:15 -
[9] - Quote
I don't think Jason's thread was that horrible considering what I have seen in the past that went on longer. Were warnings given out in the past to the two mentioned people? If not there should have been on many occasions. While I flat out agree that majority of what they said had no place I don't necessarily feel a flat out ban would be required (don't get me wrong they both have gone well above and beyond what should be seen as acceptable) but if they weren't warned, well, aside from common sense and the fact everyone told them to shut up how are they to know they are overstepping anything? Yes I know that should be enough to make them think. Yes I know it's extremely obvious. Feel free to criticize me for playing devil's advocate. It's not like I don't that a ban could and would be completely warranted. It seems he felt self moderation here had alot more of a sway than it actually had, can't blame the guy for expecting better from us all. How many people actually reported posts and such? I think in the last few years I've only reported one or two when I probably should have more. |
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
80
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:52:30 -
[10] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:You know what? Now that I look at this, I realized that my post was a full 3 days before our DED moderator friend made his stately arrival. Now I know what the argument will be: the rules were on the book long before then. And you are right, they were!
So where is the ex post facto enforcement of these rules for the literal 2 years that Diana Kim has spent mercilessly harassing people in a much more vitriolic (and frankly less dashingly humorous) manner? Plot twist Aux is Caldari and is censoring dissent of Kim's narrative |
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Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar Rote Kapelle
493
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:55:07 -
[11] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote: How many people actually reported posts and such? I think in the last few years I've only reported one or two when I probably should have more.
I have reported several posts in the past, but the lack of any sign of moderation happening and the continuation of reportable posts by the same people, I just grew tired at the fruitlessness of using the report tool as it seemed to have had no impact whatsoever.
We travel in the dark of the new moon,
A starry highway traced on the map of the sky
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
80
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:02:43 -
[12] - Quote
Steffanie Saissore wrote:Deitra Vess wrote: How many people actually reported posts and such? I think in the last few years I've only reported one or two when I probably should have more. I have reported several posts in the past, but the lack of any sign of moderation happening and the continuation of reportable posts by the same people, I just grew tired at the fruitlessness of using the report tool as it seemed to have had no impact whatsoever. Well I just started on June 1 YC118 the day after my contracts were terminated and haven't seen any particular posts that were reportable just certain toxic posters |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1304
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:13:24 -
[13] - Quote
Well, atleast somebody has been, things take time to actually work (admittedly it's taken way too long). From what I've seen Slayer, it hasn't exactly been a fury of activity in the last few months, it has been pretty bad in the past. |
Elanion
29
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:14:13 -
[14] - Quote
We get the forum we deserve. Considering we're capsules, the fact that a forum exists at all is remarkable.
RIP YC111-115 GÇó "The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."
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Ria Nieyli
45805
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:15:49 -
[15] - Quote
Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1304
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:20:42 -
[16] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves. Don't believe anyone was flat out banned, just warnings are finally flying and a thread was locked. |
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
662
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:49:17 -
[17] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves.
Actually, I think I've been rather fair about this. I broke the rules, I got a warning. Fine. Now give similar warnings for similar breaking of said rule.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2021
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:56:43 -
[18] - Quote
Fear not, my minion shall dispense justice fairly..... I think...... was he the one I dropped when making moderators? Meh, I'm sure that it will be fine.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
80
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Posted - 2016.07.28 17:59:20 -
[19] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Fear not, my minion shall dispense justice fairly..... I think...... was he the one I dropped when making moderators? Meh, I'm sure that it will be fine. 100% fine |
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution Evictus.
228
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Posted - 2016.07.28 18:26:16 -
[20] - Quote
The very fact that moderators should have to step in (even though Im all for it.) Is kind of an indictment of our own failures in self moderation.
While I typically only post here on occasion and usually reserve my time here to reading interesting topics (mostly Arc these days.) I can't help but notice many of the people in here complaining about consistency in moderation are also the people who practice the least amount of self moderation themselves.
Many of you here are guilty of being the primary agitators in egging "you know who" on either through surreptitious summoning acts by sprinkling in random insult towards her which you know will only draw her in to derail an entire threat, or by actively engaging with her when she fires off in whatever toxic hate-filled diatribe she chooses.
The sad fact is that we have the tools to deal with this problem ourselves but we don't. Either because we're happy to collect free brownie points of good will standing up against the archetypal villain of this drama, or simply because our fragile ego's are too weak to withstand a moronic blow from the village idiot.
You want to clean this place up?
Stop engaging with trolls. It takes responders to derail a thread. They can't do it alone.
Regards,
K. Amsel |
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Ria Nieyli
45806
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Posted - 2016.07.28 18:30:54 -
[21] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves. Actually, I think I've been rather fair about this. I broke the rules, I got a warning. Fine. Now give similar warnings for similar breaking of said rule.
QED
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
81
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Posted - 2016.07.28 18:35:40 -
[22] - Quote
Vizage wrote:The very fact that moderators should have to step in (even though Im all for it.) Is kind of an indictment of our own failures in self moderation.
While I typically only post here on occasion and usually reserve my time here to reading interesting topics (mostly Arc these days.) I can't help but notice many of the people in here complaining about consistency in moderation are also the people who practice the least amount of self moderation themselves.
Many of you here are guilty of being the primary agitators in egging "you know who" on either through surreptitious summoning acts by sprinkling in random insult towards her which you know will only draw her in to derail an entire threat, or by actively engaging with her when she fires off in whatever toxic hate-filled diatribe she chooses.
The sad fact is that we have the tools to deal with this problem ourselves but we don't. Either because we're happy to collect free brownie points of good will standing up against the archetypal villain of this drama, or simply because our fragile ego's are too weak to withstand a moronic blow from the village idiot.
You want to clean this place up?
Stop engaging with trolls. It takes responders to derail a thread. They can't do it alone.
Regards,
K. Amsel I admit that I have said some baiting posts toward her and I apologize to her for those posts |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
460
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Posted - 2016.07.28 19:00:02 -
[23] - Quote
I can agree with what Vizage says, a very well structured statement. Also, to my shame, I admit that I sort of contributed to this problem.
However, I come here every day for two things: to bring people information or to read some dumb or good jokes. Personally, I get enough toxicity in other places, I really don't want to see someone's insecurities here for a ****ing year. Many approaches were tried (and I don't really know why I cared about it so much), but nothing changed. Just my 0.2 ISK.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Doctor Gallento
Doctor Gallento - the Rock'n'Roll Clown
11
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Posted - 2016.07.28 19:16:12 -
[24] - Quote
You should donate some Crash as motivation and ISK for the costs to my organization and I'll think about making a song about this injustice. Together we can raise awareness. |
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
278
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Posted - 2016.07.28 20:03:37 -
[25] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves. Actually, I think I've been rather fair about this. I broke the rules, I got a warning. Fine. Now give similar warnings for similar breaking of said rule. Do you expect personal report from IGS Communications Director to whom he gave out warnings, really. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2021
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Posted - 2016.07.28 20:29:56 -
[26] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Who was banned?
Also, impartial moderation never seems fair when you're on the receiving end, as everyone is biased towards themselves. Actually, I think I've been rather fair about this. I broke the rules, I got a warning. Fine. Now give similar warnings for similar breaking of said rule. Do you expect personal report from IGS Communications Director to whom he gave out warnings, really. Only I get those. Never read them, no need to know any details beyond "problem identified and solved"
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Yarosara Ruil
496
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Posted - 2016.07.28 21:22:58 -
[27] - Quote
Here's an idea. Just hear this out!
Stop provoking Kim, stop taking advantage of her personality and stop taking it so personal that she hates all things Gallente. You will not convince her otherwise, and making it a personal quest to "prove her misconceptions wrong" just makes everyone else facepalm. Repeatedly.
If you stop taking things so seriously, she is a treat to talk and interact with. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2738
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Posted - 2016.07.28 21:46:19 -
[28] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Here's an idea. Just hear this out!
Stop provoking Kim, stop taking advantage of her personality and stop taking it so personal that she hates all things Gallente. You will not convince her otherwise, and making it a personal quest to "prove her misconceptions wrong" just makes everyone else facepalm. Repeatedly.
If you stop taking things so seriously, she is a treat to talk and interact with. Ma'am, I would be glad if someone actually tried to prove me something.
Unfortunately, most things I see from the trolls is their insults and lies about me (or about Caldari fallen soldiers).
And with these kind of people... I'll prefer them to not speak at all. At least until they learn how to speak politely and respectfully.
And what is more funny, some even stupid enough to blame me in turning threads into threads 'about myself', while it is them who start to speak about me, or discuss my person instead of my words.
Just look at this exact thread. First it was quite infamous gallentean, who mentioned my name, just in the first commend. Second goes a coward and liar, who is widely known for publically lying about me on multiple occasions. I am not really inclined to keep that going.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8523
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Posted - 2016.07.28 22:23:20 -
[29] - Quote
So-- it's all our fault, Ms. Ruil?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Yarosara Ruil
496
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Posted - 2016.07.28 22:36:03 -
[30] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:So-- it's all our fault, Ms. Ruil?
If the cap fits, wear it.
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