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Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
20
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Posted - 2016.07.30 00:55:24 -
[1] - Quote
Much like my thread about Networked Sensor Arrays I am here to propose another change in EVE that will benefit everyone.
Decreasing Capital Ship Component parts down to 1.5 - 2k m3 each from 4k each.
Reason: To help stimulate the Capital ship market even more while also giving newer industrial players the opportunity to profit from helping with the production in cap ships without building everything.
As of right now in EVE there really isn't much incentive in building only capital parts as they are too heavy, sell very slow as most builders build their own parts and they must be moved to low sec which their aren't many ships that can move enough into low sec safely to make decent profit.
Furthermore with the new changes in EVE making Capital ships even more of a valued asset this change will provide a greater supply thus promoting more active usage.
Positives: Players will be able to build capitals by transporting ALL parts with greater ease but also at a greater risk.
Production of Capital ships will increase thus increasing destruction and module need completely stimulating not only the mineral market but also the Cap module market.
Capital Parts will become a viable option for players who can't build the ships or don't want to leave hi sec.
BAX Trading, Investing, and Third Party Services
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2655
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Posted - 2016.07.30 06:21:40 -
[2] - Quote
While reasonably in terms of the size: transporting firesales around null sec would be a lot easier.
However, I doubt that the market for capital components will be stimulated by this. Unless the market can provide these components a lot cheaper yourself and deliver to your place of need cheaper than what you can produce yourself, people who build capitals will not buy them and transport them because that would reduce the margin considerably and mean a lot more organizational effort for no added rewards/gains. Neither is going to happen because the serious big time capital builders have their personal mineral suppliers who already give them advantageous ore/mineral prices compared to Jita.
The size reduction would be welcomed, no doubt, if you want to move things around different production stations/arrays (arrays in particular in the future) in your system or the nearby area to minimize index explosion, but I do not see a significant market stimulation.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1345
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Posted - 2016.07.30 09:58:43 -
[3] - Quote
The one thing that would promote captials online would be to nerf some humans habits of collecting currency. It is very simple.
It goes,
tritanium: 1 isk pyertie: 2 isk isogen: 12 isk mexallon: 7 isk noxctium: 10 isk megacyte: 15isk morphite: 20 isk
Similar things will help with moon-poo. There you go, I just helped everyone in EVE.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2634
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Posted - 2016.07.30 11:30:42 -
[4] - Quote
Not supported.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
20
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Posted - 2016.07.30 11:45:03 -
[5] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:While reasonably in terms of the size: transporting firesales around null sec would be a lot easier.
However, I doubt that the market for capital components will be stimulated by this. Unless the market can provide these components a lot cheaper and deliver to your place of need still cheaper than what you can produce yourself, people who build capitals will not buy them and transport them because that would reduce the margin considerably and mean a lot more organizational effort for no added rewards/gains. Neither is going to happen because the serious big time capital builders have their personal mineral suppliers who already give them advantageous ore/mineral prices compared to Jita.
The size reduction would be welcomed, no doubt, if you want to move things around different production stations/arrays (arrays in particular in the future) in your system or the nearby area to minimize index explosion, but I do not see a significant market stimulation.
4k m3 to 1-2km3 wouldn't make a significant change in the market?
From your market expertise explain cap ship module drop from 4k m3 to 1k m3 and how that did not change the market.
I think you forget Low sec restricted Cap ship building on top of over sized cap modules makes it useless to build just the parts if you are a new player or just an industry player that moves stuff to high sec.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4588
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Posted - 2016.07.30 12:01:44 -
[6] - Quote
It won't do much to the market because people will not buy them, because it will remain cheaper for them to build the things themselves.
I build caps occasionally. I don't buy the components because it's cheaper to haul in the compressed ore and build them on site than it is to haul in the pre built components and build from them. Making the components smaller doesn't change this.
I'm not sure capital construction is a new player friendly activity anyway. |
Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
20
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Posted - 2016.07.30 14:22:57 -
[7] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:It won't do much to the market because people will not buy them, because it will remain cheaper for them to build the things themselves.
I build caps occasionally. I don't buy the components because it's cheaper to haul in the compressed ore and build them on site than it is to haul in the pre built components and build from them. Making the components smaller doesn't change this.
I'm not sure capital construction is a new player friendly activity anyway.
Explain cap module production and how its boomed to crazy levels now that they are 1k m3 instead of 4km3
BAX Trading, Investing, and Third Party Services
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4589
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Posted - 2016.07.30 14:47:48 -
[8] - Quote
That's completely irrelevant, since you build cap modules with regular minerals, not cap components.
The more of your supply chain you control, the cheaper your end product. Why would I pay a newbie 10mil for a component I can manufacture myself for 9? Or 8 if I have a deal with a friendly miner? |
Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
20
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Posted - 2016.07.30 15:30:55 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:That's completely irrelevant, since you build cap modules with regular minerals, not cap components.
The more of your supply chain you control, the cheaper your end product. Why would I pay a newbie 10mil for a component I can manufacture myself for 9? Or 8 if I have a deal with a friendly miner?
With this logic you must mine all your ore, compress it all and refine it all. If you don't then do not be a hypocrite :)
BAX Trading, Investing, and Third Party Services
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4589
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Posted - 2016.07.30 15:40:44 -
[10] - Quote
Again, that's completely irrelevant.
Why are you resorting to personal attacks? I am saying that nobody is going to buy the components, because it is cheaper to build them.
It is also cheaper to rat and use that ISK to buy minerals than it is to mine them yourself, unless you're running a dozen accounts. This is also covered in my previous post by simply tying up with a friendly miner and buying his stuff at a discount. You can also do amusing things with buy orders and/or citadels to get your ore cheap.
Why do you think that being able to fit eight or nine complete carriers worth of components in a freighter instead of one and a bit is a good idea? I'm going to go right ahead and assume this is the real reason for your idea. |
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Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
20
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Posted - 2016.07.30 16:13:56 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Again, that's completely irrelevant.
Why are you resorting to personal attacks? I am saying that nobody is going to buy the components, because it is cheaper to build them.
It is also cheaper to rat and use that ISK to buy minerals than it is to mine them yourself, unless you're running a dozen accounts. This is also covered in my previous post by simply tying up with a friendly miner and buying his stuff at a discount. You can also do amusing things with buy orders and/or citadels to get your ore cheap.
Why do you think that being able to fit eight or nine complete carriers worth of components in a freighter instead of one and a bit is a good idea? I'm going to go right ahead and assume this is the real reason for your idea.
I said nothing personal against you just trying to understand the reasoning. You made the statements:
Quote:It won't do much to the market because people will not buy them, because it will remain cheaper for them to build the things themselves.
I build caps occasionally. I don't buy the components because it's cheaper to haul in the compressed ore and build them on site than it is to haul in the pre built components and build from them. Making the components smaller doesn't change this.
I'm not sure capital construction is a new player friendly activity anyway.
Then stated...
Quote:Danika Princip wrote: That's completely irrelevant, since you build cap modules with regular minerals, not cap components.
The more of your supply chain you control, the cheaper your end product. Why would I pay a newbie 10mil for a component I can manufacture myself for 9? Or 8 if I have a deal with a friendly miner?
What I understand from both these quotes are: Build everything in house yet turn around and say depend on others ot help..
The idea that I presented allows for newer players to contribute to an industry that is completely cut off to them. Every type of industry in eve allows for new players to grow and develop except for capital ship production mainly due to the fact that the parts are TOO large to successfully move. People think it is just the cost that forces cap producers to build their Cap parts in house however this is not the case as moving the parts are 100x more tedious and difficult than moving the minerals. Smaller capital parts will stimulate more involvement meaning better market. I've seen this problem for many years now (Built 1000s of caps of all classes) and now that EVE is at the point where capital ships are very proactive it is an industry change that will work for the better.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2656
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Posted - 2016.07.30 17:52:55 -
[12] - Quote
Dai Kyoko wrote:I think you forget Low sec restricted Cap ship building on top of over sized cap modules makes it useless to build just the parts if you are a new player or just an industry player that moves stuff to high sec. The size reduction for capital modules changed something? I have not noticed anything worth mentioning.
That is because it is useless. No one in their right mind buys prebuilt capital ship components to build a capital ship because, A) it's too much work to import them to low sec (with or without your suggested size reduction), and B) the price you pay for them is more expensive than if you build the parts yourself. The reason why no one buys these components is only because they are bulky but because they are expensive. And to the already expensive components, you would need to add transportation cost as well. No one in their right mind is going to cut their profit margin just like that.
I do not see what the new player card have to do with capital production. New players have no business at all in this industry area.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
77
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Posted - 2016.08.02 02:45:49 -
[13] - Quote
Dai Kyoko wrote:Danika Princip wrote: I'm not sure capital construction is a new player friendly activity anyway.
Then stated... The idea that I presented allows for newer players to contribute to an industry that is completely cut off to them. Every type of industry in eve allows for new players to grow and develop except for capital ship production mainly due to the fact that the parts are TOO large to successfully move. People think it is just the cost that forces cap producers to build their Cap parts in house however this is not the case as moving the parts are 100x more tedious and difficult than moving the minerals. Smaller capital parts will stimulate more involvement meaning better market. I've seen this problem for many years now (Built 1000s of caps of all classes) and now that EVE is at the point where capital ships are very proactive it is an industry change that will work for the better.
I think you missed the part that I bolded, italicized and underlined above.
There seems to be a recent trend of thinking that all activities in EVE should be open to all players immediately. That is not how THIS game works. Other games may work that way but that does NOT mean this game has to work that way.
What is wrong with looking at something like capital bits construction and thinking, "Hey, I would like to do that." One then learns what it requires, makes a plan to get there then does it. THAT is and always has been EVE. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
77
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Posted - 2016.08.02 02:50:08 -
[14] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:The one thing that would promote captials online would be to nerf some humans habits of collecting currency. It is very simple.
It goes,
tritanium: 1 isk pyertie: 2 isk isogen: 12 isk mexallon: 7 isk noxctium: 10 isk megacyte: 15isk morphite: 20 isk
Similar things will help with moon-poo. There you go, I just helped everyone in EVE.
I'm hoping this is complete sarcasm. You do not really want price controls in EVE do you? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
941
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Posted - 2016.08.02 13:51:43 -
[15] - Quote
Dai Kyoko wrote:With this logic you must mine all your ore, compress it all and refine it all. If you don't then do not be a hypocrite :) I know four players where ALL of their game time is spent producing cap ships for their alliance pilots. ALL of them either mine the ore themselves OR they buy it from trusted sources. I times of great need they will buy components from other members of the alliance however NONE of them will or would buy components from players outside the alliance so there is nothing in your idea that would change that.
There is very little market for cap ship components and the size of each component has nothing to do with that. Transporting those components through hostile space was, is and always will be a major logistics problem and your idea does nothing to change that in a positive way. |
Cade Windstalker
525
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Posted - 2016.08.02 14:21:48 -
[16] - Quote
The main thing this would do is make it easier for capital ships to carry combat refits. Bad change IMO. |
Dai Kyoko
Battle-Axe
21
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Posted - 2016.08.02 15:36:06 -
[17] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Dai Kyoko wrote:With this logic you must mine all your ore, compress it all and refine it all. If you don't then do not be a hypocrite :) I know four players where ALL of their game time is spent producing cap ships for their alliance pilots. ALL of them either mine the ore themselves OR they buy it from trusted sources. I times of great need they will buy components from other members of the alliance however NONE of them will or would buy components from players outside the alliance so there is nothing in your idea that would change that. There is very little market for cap ship components and the size of each component has nothing to do with that. Transporting those components through hostile space was, is and always will be a major logistics problem and your idea does nothing to change that in a positive way.
Was that a serious statement?
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
943
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Posted - 2016.08.03 12:53:38 -
[18] - Quote
Dai Kyoko wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Dai Kyoko wrote:With this logic you must mine all your ore, compress it all and refine it all. If you don't then do not be a hypocrite :) I know four players where ALL of their game time is spent producing cap ships for their alliance pilots. ALL of them either mine the ore themselves OR they buy it from trusted sources. I times of great need they will buy components from other members of the alliance however NONE of them will or would buy components from players outside the alliance so there is nothing in your idea that would change that. There is very little market for cap ship components and the size of each component has nothing to do with that. Transporting those components through hostile space was, is and always will be a major logistics problem and your idea does nothing to change that in a positive way. Was that a serious statement? Yes it is a serious statement. Compared to other items on the market like ammo, t1 ships and the most popular PvP modules the cap ship market is extremely small. Looking around the area of low sec where my low sec character currently is there are ZERO as in not even one single cap ship component on the market, and yet I quickly counted hundreds of other items on the market including the useless things like bottles of wine and long stem roses, I even found a distressed damsel. Talking to all of the players I know that have characters in nul sec and worm holes yields essentially the same answer, no one uses the market they are all handled by contract or by simply trading the components while the recipient transfer the ISK into their wallets. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2638
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Posted - 2016.08.03 13:18:46 -
[19] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:The main thing this would do is make it easier for capital ships to carry combat refits. Bad change IMO.
This has nothing to do to with making it easier for capital ships to carry combat refits. You do not use Capital Ship components to refit a capital ship - you use them to build capital ships. Learn what people are talking about, then comment.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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afk phone
Repo Industries
34
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Posted - 2016.08.03 13:22:35 -
[20] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:The main thing this would do is make it easier for capital ships to carry combat refits. Bad change IMO. This has nothing to do to with making it easier for capital ships to carry combat refits. You do not use Capital Ship components to refit a capital ship - you use them to build capital ships. Learn what people are talking about, then comment.
+1 because you're normally nice. (feels good right??) |
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