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Therese Law
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Posted - 2007.03.12 05:34:00 -
[1]
Hi
I have tryed trading many times, but never got it to work and i never got a nice profit frome it.
I recently started a gain with about 100mil in my hand. I went to Jita to set up a bunch of buy orders, about 80mil on 10 buy orders. The profit per unit was all frome 10% to 100% on the modules. Some is very popular and it is extreamly hard to be on the top of the buy order all the time and some modules is a bit less active when it comes to the 0.1 isk war.
But i just need to ask one thing. I set my orders to be a few jumps out of the system to cover a small area atleast. But i never ever get anything on them... I know ppl making a fortune on things like this, but what am i doing wrong all the time.
It seems like i am vasting alot of time doing this if i always go minus in my wallet.
Either way i feel that i will soon give up if i dont get some new tips on how to get it working and start my career as a trader. Would love if somone offerd some personal tips in a convo or just letting me shoot questions when i have them.
Thanks Therese
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.12 05:44:00 -
[2]
Maybe someone will give an in depth answer, or link to one of the many guides out there, but I'll give a few pointers.
-Move out of hub systems. Hubs are great for buying equipment cheap, but the actual money will be made from moving the goods. (there are exceptions to everything, but 100m isn't enough for toying with a hub's market)
-always keep a lookout for opportunity, lots of trading ideas just kinda pop into your mind randomly, at least from my experience.
-Alts are an important tool. Plant them in other systems you want to trade in, and look for differences in prices between them.
-Think out of the box, the less people doing what you are doing, the less you will have to "micromanage".
-I know 1 thing, my POS fuel costs more and more in Jita every week, maybe there is some isk to be made there? (not my type of trading)
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Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.12 06:06:00 -
[3]
Originally by: mechtech Maybe someone will give an in depth answer, or link to one of the many guides out there, but I'll give a few pointers.
-always keep a lookout for opportunity, lots of trading ideas just kinda pop into your mind randomly, at least from my experience.
-Alts are an important tool. Plant them in other systems you want to trade in, and look for differences in prices between them.
-Think out of the box, the less people doing what you are doing, the less you will have to "micromanage".
-I know 1 thing, my POS fuel costs more and more in Jita every week, maybe there is some isk to be made there? (not my type of trading)
Thanks for your answer. I hope noone link me to any of the guides out there... I have already searched and read tons of text. But maybe something i missed...
So if i understod this right a idea is to acquire the stuff outside the big hubs and then maybe sell them in hubs. You said that there is exceptions but my 100m wont be enough to cut it. What would more isk allow me to do, like 1bil. More buy orders, bigger orders... But still the same principle?
Well i will keep my buy orders up for a few days more and hope ill get a few hits on them so i atleast dont go minus before i cancel them all to start off again with a new set of ideas and thoughts.
Hopefully some more nice answers will come up here aswell.
Thanks
--
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.12 09:38:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Therese Law Hi
I have tryed trading many times, but never got it to work and i never got a nice profit frome it.
I recently started a gain with about 100mil in my hand. I went to Jita to set up a bunch of buy orders, about 80mil on 10 buy orders. The profit per unit was all frome 10% to 100% on the modules. Some is very popular and it is extreamly hard to be on the top of the buy order all the time and some modules is a bit less active when it comes to the 0.1 isk war.
But i just need to ask one thing. I set my orders to be a few jumps out of the system to cover a small area atleast. But i never ever get anything on them... I know ppl making a fortune on things like this, but what am i doing wrong all the time.
It seems like i am vasting alot of time doing this if i always go minus in my wallet.
Either way i feel that i will soon give up if i dont get some new tips on how to get it working and start my career as a trader. Would love if somone offerd some personal tips in a convo or just letting me shoot questions when i have them.
Thanks Therese
It seems that your buy orders are being beaten by other buy orders? Also check market history. Maybe your items have too low turnover... also check if there are min prices in history matching your buy price (its nice to be top buy order at 1M, but when no one ever sells under 4M, than your buy order is pretty much useless).
With item that has regulary minimum price in history matching your price and turnover at least 10 units per day, you should be getting some items from your buy orders. If you are not, it seems that other traders are just offering more.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.12 11:26:00 -
[5]
Yes my orders are being beated by others all the time. I sit hours and just update my orders with 0.1 isk to be on the top as mutch as posseble. But always somone els is doing the same thing and is beating me with 0.1 isk.
I do check price history. First i hade a rule that atleast 20 items per day needed to be sold, but almost all orders i have is over 100 per day in volyme. I do look at the min price also, i make sure that the min price is around the price group for atleast every 3th day so i know that things are being sold to buy orders at my price range.
Quote: (its nice to be top buy order at 1M, but when no one ever sells under 4M, than your buy order is pretty much useless).
Agreed, and i think that i am avoiding something like that!
Quote: With item that has regulary minimum price in history matching your price and turnover at least 10 units per day, you should be getting some items from your buy orders. If you are not, it seems that other traders are just offering more.
This is why i post here. My buy orders are on the top (not all of them becouse of the intens 0.1 isk war). I am the one with highest price on several items on the buy orders. I do check the price history both minimum sold colum and also the volume colum to make sure the item is used and also to se that my price is accepted by others the last 10 days.
So where am i doing wrong? Am I just so unlucky that nothing happens and all my buy orders just sit there?
I really want to be a trader, it is fun i know it is. I enjoy the work around it but i feel it is so pointless when nothing happends and start to get a bad feeling about it.
--
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.12 11:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Robacz on 12/03/2007 11:42:13
Originally by: Therese Law
This is why i post here. My buy orders are on the top (not all of them becouse of the intens 0.1 isk war). I am the one with highest price on several items on the buy orders. I do check the price history both minimum sold colum and also the volume colum to make sure the item is used and also to se that my price is accepted by others the last 10 days.
So where am i doing wrong? Am I just so unlucky that nothing happens and all my buy orders just sit there?
It seems so. If you are doing everything you said, then you are not doing anything wrong. You are probably just unlucky, or other traders lucky.
Anyway, trading is not about 0.01 ISK wars. You should find another less camped item. You can't win against someone who is sitting at front of his screen and updating orders 23/7. For beginner traders, I recommend to avoid Jita. This is hardest market in Eve with highest number of market campers. Of course it has also nice turnovers, but you can make giant profits in smaller hubs too.
Look on your map and find better place to start your career. Don't let campers turn your trading experience into endless 0.01 update war. For example: Amarr, Tush-Murkon Prime, Agil, Kanuoka (and the other hub in The Citadel, forgot name), Nonni, Stacmon, Aunia, Gelfiven... even Oursulaert or Rens is much better than Jita (by number of 23/7 camped items).
You could also win with higher price. Many campers will give up if you raise your buy order by larger sum few times in a row, but of course it means lower profit for you and higher risk of getting in loss in case of some price fluctuation.
So my advice is - find another system.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.12 11:59:00 -
[7]
One more thing. If you want to stay on Jita, then consider Region wide buy orders. If other traders use 3-5 jumps ones, you don't have to compete with them with Region wide order. If they buy for 3M at 3 jumps, you can buy at 2.5M at region wide and then pay 500k to courier to bring your stuff to Jita.
Many ppl are lazy and will sell even for very low prices if they don't want to travel X jumps from their distant home. Don't be afraid about courier contracts, they are very popular and if your reward is reasonable, they will be made in few hours, even lowsec ones (as long as your cargo is not too big).
For example for 5M item, you need to pay only like 250k to move it to hub.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.12 15:08:00 -
[8]
I am very glad that i made this post. I have learned a few things and i now feel that i will have a chance to be trader.
I know i am a bit unpatient at some thngs and want to se a result in no time. Glad to se that my thoughts and how i do it is not all to wrong, it is just a bit of unluck i guess.
I will follow the main advice in this thread and change hub. But first i need to atleast get a few hits on the buy orders i have up so i dont go minus on them when i am canceling them all. If i manage to go just 0.0001 isk + after canceling them i will actually ad 100mil to my next step to be able to have even more things up and hopefully get a few more result.
Just one question tho... about taxes and broker feeŠs. Is it 0.8% on everything it i do on the market? Set buy/sell order Chang buy/sell order Every item i sell/buy ?? and more ??
Thanks
My god! The market section of this forum is the only place where ppl are nice and dont flame a thread where a noob need some help. I really love the honesty and kindnes in ppl that are trying to help out as they do. --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Redbad
Minmatar Be Inspired Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.12 15:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Therese Law I am very glad that i made this post. I have learned a few things and i now feel that i will have a chance to be trader.
I know i am a bit unpatient at some thngs and want to se a result in no time. Glad to se that my thoughts and how i do it is not all to wrong, it is just a bit of unluck i guess.
I will follow the main advice in this thread and change hub. But first i need to atleast get a few hits on the buy orders i have up so i dont go minus on them when i am canceling them all. If i manage to go just 0.0001 isk + after canceling them i will actually ad 100mil to my next step to be able to have even more things up and hopefully get a few more result.
Just one question tho... about taxes and broker feeŠs. Is it 0.8% on everything it i do on the market? Set buy/sell order Chang buy/sell order Every item i sell/buy ?? and more ??
Thanks
My god! The market section of this forum is the only place where ppl are nice and dont flame a thread where a noob need some help. I really love the honesty and kindnes in ppl that are trying to help out as they do.
You can work up some skills that will reduce transaction costs and tax: - Broker Relations, every lvl 5% reduction in settingup costs of a market order; - Accounting, every lvl reduces transactiontax by 10%;
Get some skills in these skills soon, it'll be worth in the long run.
Have fun trading.
join us today! |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.12 16:30:00 -
[10]
I will only add:
- you will pay TAX only if you sell something - you will pay BROKER FEE everytime you setup a market order, no matter if it was successful or not
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
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Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.12 20:42:00 -
[11]
Just to let you guys know how it goes (if you even want to know)
Well anyway, i did create a new char to use for trading and i did put in another 100mil on it to get me starting. I placed the char in a smaller trading/mission hub and then i used all my isk on a 15 buy orders.
I did...
1. check how many sell orders, if there was more than 10 it was positiv. 2. check how many buy orders, if there was under 10 it was positiv. 3. check price history and the colum named "LOW". I tok the lowest sell order price and looked how many orders in price history that was under that number. If there where atleast every 3th day it was positiv 4. check price history and the colum named "VOLUME". If the volume was higher than 50 eatch day it was positiv. 5. if all above was positive i decided to set up a buy order with the amount of 10-20 and with the goal to be the highest (top) buyer in the region.
SO DID I DO THIS RIGHT???
So fare it has only gone a few hours so i dont expect anything jet. But in 24 hours i really want something to start happening. Otherwhise i must have made something wrong i guess. I have talked to others ingame and the only answer i got is that i seems to be a bit unlucky
Would love to still get some thoughts on this PLEASE --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
GPszith
Gallente Gypsy Productions
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Posted - 2007.03.13 01:30:00 -
[12]
My advice:
1. research 2. research 3. research 4. try some things out 5. research
I dont mean research bpos or t2 research. I mean research and learn to understand the market. If you read posts closely people give away little secrets all the time. You just gotta read em closely and think about the market. It's a slow learning process because its complex but if it was easy everyone would do it. (That is, either its a slow learning process or I am a slow learner) -------------------------------------------------- -GPszith
wtb a sig |
CmdrThor
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Posted - 2007.03.13 04:50:00 -
[13]
When looking at the market history, make sure you sort by date in descending order. By default it's the other way around and you can run into some problems if you based your buy/sell orders on market history from 2005.
I know I almost got burned that way, when my PC crashed once and all the EVE settings got lost.
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Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:26:00 -
[14]
emptyness (spelling)
well i have done so mutch. read and tryed, research and tryed.
it sucks when you hear other just set up a buy order and earn millions of isk in no time.
read so mutch, but it seems like i am not fit for this. i cant se any hidden secreats and tips in the text...
i guess i should go back to mining --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
GPszith
Gallente Gypsy Productions
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:08:00 -
[15]
naw it takes time. You can make millions but i bet the people making millions either havea natural talent or a lot of experience.
You can do it..just start small and learn.
-------------------------------------------------- -GPszith
wtb a sig |
Leia Corrino
Essence Shipyards Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Therese Law emptyness (spelling)
well i have done so mutch. read and tryed, research and tryed.
it sucks when you hear other just set up a buy order and earn millions of isk in no time.
read so mutch, but it seems like i am not fit for this. i cant se any hidden secreats and tips in the text...
i guess i should go back to mining
It seems you did everything right, still no success? If you want, you can evemail me your location and some of your buy orders, I will look in it and tell you if I can see anything wrong... besides of that I am not sure how to help you - as I said it seems you are doing everything right.
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:47:00 -
[17]
^^ that was me
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
TheBlueMonkey
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: TheBlueMonkey on 13/03/2007 10:19:27 Find an item that's not on sale with in 5 jumps of a system then sell that item in the system for an above average amount. (eg if the average price is 5K-6K you can probably sell it for 7K-8K)
People are lazey, if they can pay extra and not travel for 5 min in each direction, they will.
As a trader, rely on this.
Blue prints are also king, if there's a complete shortage of an item in a sector then get the blueprint and produce like crazey.
The trick is to find a hole in the market and plug it. Try to avoid market wars too, if everyones selling an item then it's probably not the item you want to be selling.
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Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:39:00 -
[19]
i will contact you Leia Corrino/Gobacz, it is always nice to have someone to talk about live when a question pops up. IŠll prepear some screenshots of my orders to show you what i have been doing.
Thanks --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Slanty McGarglefist
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Posted - 2007.03.13 19:14:00 -
[20]
Stop raising your prices by .01 ISK, you'll never get any sleep since people will simply raise it by another .01. Raise it by more and it could ward off potential competition if it appears you are in for the long haul.
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.13 20:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 13/03/2007 20:56:02 S*** I just wrote a massive reply that was going to change your life and closed the tab my mistake . C'est la vie.
EDIT: I will say you are doing everything right. In fact you have taught me a few things even though you have only just started trading - especially disecting the price history in order to see whether it is worth putting out a buy order for an item.
Also the post just above about plugging a hole is great. Must do that.
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Mademoiselle Anna
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Posted - 2007.03.13 21:11:00 -
[22]
My experience so far has been that what makes your profits larger is having more capital. I usually cycle 4-5 billion in buy orders in Jita. With less capital, my income would be rather small. Then again, I'm not doing anything particularry inventive, just very simple trading.
I'd like to add one thing: experience of the game. Experience in different areas of the game may help you to plan ahead and consider what items are more or less in demand, where there might be a demand and what pilots generally use. For example, experience might tell you that Motsu is one of the most crowded systems agent runners use - perhaps you could set up some buy orders there for the mods most commonly drop from Caldari missions? Also, you might want to go to Agil and Torrinos (stations near often used entrypoints into 0.0 space) and see if there might be a demand for some items there (or if something might be sold there often).
Anyhow, good luck with your endeavours. :)
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.13 22:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mademoiselle Anna For example, experience might tell you that Motsu is one of the most crowded systems agent runners use - perhaps you could set up some buy orders there for the mods most commonly drop from Caldari missions?
I thought about this but I asked someone who runs missions in that very region and he said and I quote: "Loot dropped from missions could be pretty much any tech I/named module." Not much to go on there :P.
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Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.14 05:07:00 -
[24]
sent you a mail Leia Corrino --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.14 07:00:00 -
[25]
what price margin do you want to make it worth putting isk and time into a module. probably depending on the speed the module is used, selld and buyed... but how do u think? --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.14 10:52:00 -
[26]
Mail replied. As I said in email, I wasnt looking on margin but on sum. I always wanted to make at least 1M on each item, later I moved my requiremend to 3M. You can make nice margins on cheaper items too, but its too much work. Its better to sell 5 items with 2M profit than to bother with 100 items with 100k profit.
At the beginning, look at items with price tag 3-15M. Then move higher.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Therese Law
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.14 14:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Robacz Mail replied. As I said in email, I wasnt looking on margin but on sum. I always wanted to make at least 1M on each item, later I moved my requiremend to 3M. You can make nice margins on cheaper items too, but its too much work. Its better to sell 5 items with 2M profit than to bother with 100 items with 100k profit.
At the beginning, look at items with price tag 3-15M. Then move higher.
A question here... When you write that you want to make atleast 1m on each item do you mean a profit per module or the hole order?
it it is hard to find a item with a profit that is give a 2m profit with just a few items...
Maybe i dont understand the profit % correct. a t1 ammo can give a 10% margin and with the right amount i can earn a high profit. but a t2 module can give me same profit with less amount in my buy order. but the t1 ammo is cheaper and more used than the t2 module is probably. so the profit could be better if the t1 ammo trade goes faster than the t2 module is. but that is ofc depending on the amount of time i want to put into it. --
Ofc i am an alt of a shy alliance leader. |
Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.14 15:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Therese Law When you write that you want to make atleast 1m on each item do you mean a profit per module or the hole order?
That would be per module, I'm pretty sure.
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.14 17:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Therese Law
A question here... When you write that you want to make atleast 1m on each item do you mean a profit per module or the hole order?
it it is hard to find a item with a profit that is give a 2m profit with just a few items...
Maybe i dont understand the profit % correct. a t1 ammo can give a 10% margin and with the right amount i can earn a high profit. but a t2 module can give me same profit with less amount in my buy order. but the t1 ammo is cheaper and more used than the t2 module is probably. so the profit could be better if the t1 ammo trade goes faster than the t2 module is. but that is ofc depending on the amount of time i want to put into it.
Per item. I always traded only items which are worth several million ISK at least, it makes your life easier.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
gazarsgo
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.03.14 18:39:00 -
[30]
100mil is a little short. i have about a billion isk worth on the market, split relatively evenly between buys and sells. i skim out some of my profits to pay for whatever else i'm doing.
your best bet for some quick cashflow is to find a high volume item with a decent margin and undercut -- squeeze the spread (the difference between the buy and the sell orders, your gross profit margin). this reduces the isk you'll make, sure, but it also discourages competition and it's always better to make a quick buck than to let some mods gather dust hoping for an overly-optimistic profit. Even if you are selling into a competitor buying you out to mark it up -- you've got your isk freed up, they don't.
if you are only in the market for a handful of mods, you are going to lose out in .01 isk wars. the other competitors likely have their hands on a LOT greater variety of orders up, so they can afford not to have the best buy/sell on one mod as long as they have the high on another.
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