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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.12 23:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Esurnir on 12/03/2007 23:21:09 What happens in the future when one alliance/coalition has more than 6000 active battleship? I predict it will only be a few months at the most. It makes anything less than a battleship useless, since they can effectively wtfpawn every smaller ship with the right setup everytime, it is not tankable if you don't know what resist to use or they use, and with lag it is not possible to warp out in time to escape the sniper gang in many circumstances. With them being immune to small dps and having officer smartbombs to kill any interdictor bubbles and officer cap rechargers to regen insane amounts of cap, it is literally impossible to kill them alone in my noobship using "ingame" circumstances, they can and have only been killed by using out of game mechanics (mainly catching them as they log off).
In a year when there are 30 battleship, who will still be playing, if the only ships that can do anything other than sit in a POS are other battleship. My solution:
Make the battleship a fleet battle logistic juggernaut type ship. Give it + 500% to agility per level, +5% remote boost/repair amount, a scan range bonus, cruiser level scan resolution ect, give it maybe 10x the hp of a noobship, things along that line. Leave it immune to to lone cruiser gank, but not to plated frigate !!!!!1111eleventyone and give it an innate +8 or so WCS thing like blockade runners have. This way it is still as deadly as it was with 1400mm ART., but it needs to be in the middle of a fleet battle, instead of sitting at a POS. With 500% scan range it would have no problem remote repping ship, but instead of wiping them all out instantly it would just kill stuff one or two at a time very quickly, which also helps mitigate the advantage sniping gear has for laggy fights. With enough noobship at a gate and 30 bs, it is easy to blast a whole fleet before they have even loaded the grid, leaving no time to warp out of bubbles or even fire a shot back in defense. Swatting cruisers out of the sky faster than a muninn kills a frigate while shrugging off damage is how I envision the best ship in the game, not something that sits 200km off the gate, warping away 99% of the time. Obviously the numbers or bonuses are not balanced, I just made them up as a general idea.
Other possible is to create a module design to reduce the sensor strength and targeting range that we will call a "sensor dampener".
Oh and before you ask if I'm interested, WTB Clue ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Sadayiel
Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.12 23:22:00 -
[2]
there is already like 100-200 man battleship fleet... or do you mean titans? Every man know he's going to die, but no one believes that's going to happen |
mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.12 23:24:00 -
[3]
It's funny, but you miss the point.
cruiser beats frigate, battleship beats cruiser, Titan beats 100 battleships while not even being near the battle.
It's a much bigger step up than anything else in eve, and I don't really think it will be fun fighting an alliance with 10 titans (just a matter of time).
Fighting battleships with smaller ships because you can't afford a BS is fun (it's what most miss about the "old days", before BSs were common). Fighting lots of titans is hard, but never fun.
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Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.03.13 00:30:00 -
[4]
This thread kicks that other thread's ass. Well done sir, well done.
good game |
Snake Doctor
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.13 02:55:00 -
[5]
This thread shows me you don't fly command ships or assault frigates....
Any skilled pilot could own a bs with an af.
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DiuxDium
Loot Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 02:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Snake Doctor This thread shows me you don't fly command ships or assault frigates....
Any skilled pilot could own a bs with an af.
He's either being sarcastic\ironic, or ment titans.
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Jehovah Cooper
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.13 04:40:00 -
[7]
Its hardly fair when the OP wins the thread. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:00:00 -
[8]
its pretty common in MMOs for similar things to occur
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Zatch
Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:16:00 -
[9]
The discussion value here is extraordinary.
Esurnir is obviously being sarcastic (you guys actually read his post, right?) Even still, it isn't funny or particularly witty, sorry. =\ ----- MLCalc Creator HW2/EVE Mod Team Leader |
Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:27:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 13/03/2007 05:24:31 Sarcastic or not, the OP is correct.
Eve lacks something like the real life "torpedo bomber" and "submarine". Battleships rule everything, apart from the titan, they kick dreads and carriers around by numbers alone. Smaller ships can't really compete, apart from the meat shield/lag factor. No need to bother with destroyers when drones can do the job, no need to bother with cruisers because their DPS is poo and cant kill anything better than a BS can when you take a vanilla fitting.
We need torpedo bombers and submarines, dont dare mention stealth bombers, they are a ****ing joke. One on one smaller ships might have value do to fitting differences.. but in blob wars, which IS war, forget about it.
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Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 13/03/2007 05:37:13
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 13/03/2007 05:24:31 Sarcastic or not, the OP is correct.
Eve lacks something like the real life "torpedo bomber" and "submarine". Battleships rule everything, apart from the titan, they kick dreads and carriers around by numbers alone. Smaller ships can't really compete, apart from the meat shield/lag factor. No need to bother with destroyers when drones can do the job, no need to bother with cruisers because their DPS is poo and cant kill anything better than a BS can when you take a vanilla fitting.
We need torpedo bombers and submarines, dont dare mention stealth bombers, they are a ****ing joke. One on one smaller ships might have value do to fitting differences.. but in blob wars, which IS war, forget about it.
unless their opponents setup is a joke, a bs either loses or draws with the new tier2 battlecruisers, the only good thing about a bs in your average bs on smaller ship engagement (BS.vs.BC, BS.vs.HAC, BS.vs.Recon etc) is the fact you can use Large NOS/NEUTS, and thats basically it.
BS dont really have the teeth they used too.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:44:00 -
[12]
I'm not too experienced with fleet battles, nor all the ship types, hell, i stillhaven't jumped into a battleship 'cause i love my lil bird so much(fly a prophecy)....BUT...
Wouldn't a fleet of, say , 4-5 stealth bombers "own" the begeesus out of a battleship?
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Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 13/03/2007 06:08:29 Sarcasm or not, the Devs are aware of ze superblob coming, and I'm sure they'll do something about it happening.
Otherwise, yeah I dont think a 600man BS fleet is the end of all resistance cause it cant be countered.
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones I'm not too experienced with fleet battles, nor all the ship types, hell, i stillhaven't jumped into a battleship 'cause i love my lil bird so much(fly a prophecy)....BUT...
Wouldn't a fleet of, say , 4-5 stealth bombers "own" the begeesus out of a battleship?
Possibly, if the bombers are out of range of the BS's weapons, or if the target BS is a missile spammer. But a sniper BS which are extremely popular in fleets will pop a stealth bomber instantly. And their DPS isnt stellar.. AND a BS can warp out whenever he gets critically damaged.
And 4/5 isnt a fleet. :)
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Shismo
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:15:00 -
[15]
Id honestly rather die to 100 BS than 100 frigates. Battleships a battleship, frigates are just insults.
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Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Possibly, if the bombers are out of range of the BS's weapons, or if the target BS is a missile spammer. But a sniper BS which are extremely popular in fleets will pop a stealth bomber instantly. And their DPS isnt stellar.. AND a BS can warp out whenever he gets critically damaged.
And 4/5 isnt a fleet. :)
Heh, ofcourse meant the group of bombers as PART of the fleet
Like, "Oh there's another group of silly people, i'll just pop them with my big megapocalypsothron battleship. Ladidaa. Yes yes, warp me and web me, i don't care, i'm so husky and big and stuff! Poof! One down, oh what's this...blip...another blip...5 blips?! Missiles! Aah! Abort abort!"
And so on
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Countess NotFarOut2
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Posted - 2007.03.13 07:12:00 -
[17]
If we talk about BS, I don't see the problem. Technically, I would want to see a fleet of 600 BS not crashing the servers, but let's look at it tactically and strategically.
600 BS(or a hundred, 1000, does not matter) forming 1 invincible fleet. How do you beat it? Simply by denying an engagement. Such fleet flies into system A, nobody can stand against them. So leave system A for B. They go to system B, you leave for system C. System B is now undefended... But hey, the commander of this fleet is not crazy, he leaves part of his fleet as occupation force... You can see where this goes. A BLOB can only be at 1 place. If it divides itself to hold territory, soon it is not a BLOB anymore. This is nothing new, it's as old as organized warfare. Study human history and see numerous similiar situations.
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Katrina Coreli
Soar Angelic
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:00:00 -
[18]
Unless im very much mistaken this is taking the **** out of the OMG EVERYONE WILL FLY TITANS AND GAME WILL BRAKE threads.
Tip of the hat to the op
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Agricola Augusta
Minmatar Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:09:00 -
[19]
2 BCs will kill a BS. For most fun one Rook and one other Recon/HAC of your choice (Curse for me). One command ship would do, in fact there are many two ship combinations that easily outmatch a well fitted BS. Two well fit cruisers can waste a noob in a BS. ASCN had 3000 players, most could fly a BS, and they got owned. What makes you think someone else will fair better?
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Macs Nairegin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:11:00 -
[20]
i have battleship :D
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sorilin
Amarr Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:39:00 -
[21]
stfu n00bs i have killed a bs with an ibiz. ( that is not a joke ) bs are lame as they are... i dont see thewm as BATLLE ships but more of ummm ships that can easily be ****** up.
come on!
and no i dont have fraps of that bs kill.. but im sure the pilot can remember it so can hes ceo muahahaha... and yes the bs apoc pilot was afk at a gate.. but i still killed him with the ibiz sooo..
ANYONE can own a bs.. ceptors is enough. SADLY! I am the borg! |
Celeste Coeval
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: sorilin stfu n00bs i have killed a bs with an ibiz. ( that is not a joke ) bs are lame as they are... i dont see thewm as BATLLE ships but more of ummm ships that can easily be ****** up.
come on!
and no i dont have fraps of that bs kill.. but im sure the pilot can remember it so can hes ceo muahahaha... and yes the bs apoc pilot was afk at a gate.. but i still killed him with the ibiz sooo..
ANYONE can own a bs.. ceptors is enough. SADLY!
Parlez-vous anglais ?
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
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Crydawner
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Posted - 2007.03.13 08:55:00 -
[23]
I think they should take away all high slots on battles ships, and give them insane tanks, this way battles would last longer.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.13 09:14:00 -
[24]
I nominate this thread for best "attempt at hyperbole" thread.
Attempt really being the operative word here.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.03.13 09:53:00 -
[25]
Quality support fleet landing on enemy battleships = Dead Battleships.
Crappy t1 fitted support fleet landing on enemy battleships = dead support.
I dont see the problem here. Battleships need a quality support fleet to protect them as they snipe away. --
In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 13/03/2007 05:24:31 Sarcastic or not, the OP is correct.
Eve lacks something like the real life "torpedo bomber" and "submarine". Battleships rule everything, apart from the titan, they kick dreads and carriers around by numbers alone. Smaller ships can't really compete, apart from the meat shield/lag factor. No need to bother with destroyers when drones can do the job, no need to bother with cruisers because their DPS is poo and cant kill anything better than a BS can when you take a vanilla fitting.
We need torpedo bombers and submarines, dont dare mention stealth bombers, they are a ****ing joke. One on one smaller ships might have value do to fitting differences.. but in blob wars, which IS war, forget about it.
A Thana can tank 20 BS indefinetly, carriers with resistance boni can tank even more, and dreads top even that. Dreads supported by carriers are quite deadly... And a carrier group supported by inties, directing fire, while the carriers just rep each other are silly hard to kill... Killing these ships with BS requires huge numerical superiority and still is a bit risky. So I'd say, everything is quite balanced out. BS are the "mission ships" of a battle fleet, after all. Hence the term "battle ship". Good in battles, quite vulnerable alone. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Countess NotFarOut2 If we talk about BS, I don't see the problem. Technically, I would want to see a fleet of 600 BS not crashing the servers, but let's look at it tactically and strategically.
600 BS(or a hundred, 1000, does not matter) forming 1 invincible fleet. How do you beat it? Simply by denying an engagement. Such fleet flies into system A, nobody can stand against them. So leave system A for B. They go to system B, you leave for system C. System B is now undefended... But hey, the commander of this fleet is not crazy, he leaves part of his fleet as occupation force... You can see where this goes. A BLOB can only be at 1 place. If it divides itself to hold territory, soon it is not a BLOB anymore. This is nothing new, it's as old as organized warfare. Study human history and see numerous similiar situations.
Very true. Part of a succesfull strategy is denying the enemy of their own goals. If the enemy is looking to fight, evade until their numbers have dropped enough to a more comftable numbers etc:) Sun Tzu explains it best, though:) ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Tako Alvarez
Gallente Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Quality support fleet landing on enemy battleships = Dead Battleships.
Crappy t1 fitted support fleet landing on enemy battleships = dead support.
I dont see the problem here. Battleships need a quality support fleet to protect them as they snipe away.
I second that, there are other elements in the game which can make a difference in a fight. And that is true for fleet battles as well. Support is one of the most important things for any size of Battleship gang.
regards
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.03.13 10:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Countess NotFarOut2 If we talk about BS, I don't see the problem. Technically, I would want to see a fleet of 600 BS not crashing the servers, but let's look at it tactically and strategically.
600 BS(or a hundred, 1000, does not matter) forming 1 invincible fleet. How do you beat it? Simply by denying an engagement. Such fleet flies into system A, nobody can stand against them. So leave system A for B. They go to system B, you leave for system C. System B is now undefended... But hey, the commander of this fleet is not crazy, he leaves part of his fleet as occupation force... You can see where this goes. A BLOB can only be at 1 place. If it divides itself to hold territory, soon it is not a BLOB anymore. This is nothing new, it's as old as organized warfare. Study human history and see numerous similiar situations.
wrong. you dont flee, you get a few suicide cyno pilots (so at least one lives long enough) and a friendly titan nearby. problem solved. have fun shooting 600 pods :D
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Wulfstan
Caldari The Sweeney
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Posted - 2007.03.13 11:06:00 -
[30]
LOL. Well, I get it at least OP.
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