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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2247
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Posted - 2016.08.18 12:28:39 -
[151] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
You can do what you want with the Hulk and Coveter as it can be used in that role, please go and fit pink fluffy dice on it if you want.. That is the role that CCP designated for it, it is CCP's problem that it is not fit for purpose. You want a fleet mining ship with options work with the Hulk and Coveter. It is that simple...
You have failed to back up anything you have said, you have failed to answer any question and your only argument is "CCP fit more tank for me". You are adding nothing to this topic.
I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship..
The Mackinaw and Retreiver need more tank, as does the Hulk and Coveter.
But if you want to play around with a fleet ship to give options then fire away with the Hulk and Coveter. If you want to fit them to be some sort of sensor boosting what not then go ahead.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17937
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Posted - 2016.08.18 12:39:57 -
[152] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship.
Im wanting to add abilities to the skiff. You are literally arguing against making it a better ship. All you are doing is at best showing you have no idea how basic game mechanics work and at worst deliberately shafting miners so you can continue to rial against ganking. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
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Posted - 2016.08.18 12:46:14 -
[153] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship.
Im wanting to add abilities to the skiff. You are literally arguing against making it a better ship. All you are doing is at best showing you have no idea how basic game mechanics work and at worst deliberately shafting miners so you can continue to rial against ganking.
Those other abilities are not desired, it is a solo tanky mining ship period. Your motives are to remove its base EHP, and you seek to obscure that by suggesting that the tanky solo mining ship should be redesigned to fit a fleet role.
Your ideas can be catered for by CCP playing with the Hulk and Coveter for that role, seems perfectly fine to me.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17940
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Posted - 2016.08.18 12:59:03 -
[154] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: Those other abilities are not desired
It already has the drone damage bonus, it already has the dronebay. I'm asking to add a few more slots, more CPU and powergrid and for it to tank like a HAC.
It will be the same ship for what you want it for only rather than have a huge base tank you have to fit one. |
Viktor Amarr
51
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:06:51 -
[155] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Ded Akara
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:11:35 -
[156] - Quote
So will the Mackinkaw see more use in hi-sec now that it has the best yield and is the best solo miner?
Skiff has 20% less yield on the base of it but if you factor in that a skiff can fit 3 yield modules in the lo slots and still have enough cpu to fit a strong T2 tank
Mackinkaw can still only fit two yield modules if you want to retain enough to cpu to fit any kind of tank. Like this the super tank yield fit Skiff only has 11% less yield than the Mackinkaw.
There's a serious imbalance in the CPU numbers of the barges. Either nerf Skiff CPU hard so it can't be yield fit and have a strong T2 tank or boost mackinkaw/hulk cpu so they can at least fit a half decent tank so they can survive 3 catalysts if properly fit.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17940
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:16:28 -
[157] - Quote
Ded Akara wrote:So will the Mackinkaw see more use in hi-sec now that it has the best yield and is the best solo miner?
Skiff has 20% less yield on the base of it but if you factor in that a skiff can fit 3 yield modules in the lo slots and still have enough cpu to fit a strong T2 tank
Mackinkaw can still only fit two yield modules if you want to retain enough to cpu to fit any kind of tank. Like this the super tank yield fit Skiff only has 11% less yield than the Mackinkaw.
There's a serious imbalance in the CPU numbers of the barges. Either nerf Skiff CPU hard so it can't be yield fit and have a strong T2 tank or boost mackinkaw/hulk cpu so they can at least fit a half decent tank so they can survive 3 catalysts if properly fit.
Skiff and proc will be the order of the day. As you said the other 4 barges have terrible problems with fittings. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:38:45 -
[158] - Quote
Viktor Amarr wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use. Thanks for clearing that up.
Am I supposed to be offended by that in some way?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
564
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:42:25 -
[159] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Viktor Amarr wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use. Thanks for clearing that up. Am I supposed to be offended by that in some way? Yes - any level of AFK-ness is inherently evil. EVE should be played like an FPS, where leaving the keyboard while playing harms your team and makes everyone hate you.
Now excuse me while I afk autopilot for the other side of EVE |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:45:30 -
[160] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: Those other abilities are not desired
It already has the drone damage bonus, it already has the dronebay. I'm asking to add a few more slots, more CPU and powergrid and for it to tank like a HAC. It will be the same ship for what you want it for only rather than have a huge base tank you have to fit one.
Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have that role bonuses and it should.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:08:26 -
[161] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have any role bonuses and it should.
All the hulk needs is the slots, cpu and PG to fit a hac like tank on it. Role bonus would be the 25% yield to mining lasers currently on the mack. Firepower is the skiffs job. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have any role bonuses and it should.
All the hulk needs is the slots, cpu and PG to fit a hac like tank on it. Role bonus would be the 25% yield to mining lasers currently on the mack. Firepower is the skiffs job.
The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:19:02 -
[163] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.
Wrong.
It has a place in the plan I have provided. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:24:24 -
[164] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.
Wrong. It has a place in the plan I have provided.
Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1866
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:29:56 -
[165] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Now under my plan you have a mixed fleet, the hulks are the dedicated miners, the macks are providing logi support and the skiffs are offering offensive support to fight off the attackers. Suddenly the mining fleet is not defenseless vs a small gang.
Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?
- drones need time to reach target - skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter? (Using command to drones to 'defend fleet member' only means fleet does not use the whole available DPS of skiffs)
- mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders? (Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)
- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:31:03 -
[166] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.
Explain how the skiff wont be for solo players or have a sizable tank. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:39:54 -
[167] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?
null but lets do highsec!
March rabbit wrote: - drones need time to reach target - skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?
Flight time is nill if you are next to eachother which a fleet would be doing. Sebo on the skiff make locking a target rather fast.
March rabbit wrote: - mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders? (Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)
As you said, small fleet you pre lock, large fleet you can fit a sebo. Due to the nature of shield reps they will land the second you lock.
March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:42:33 -
[168] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:baltec1 wrote: Now under my plan you have a mixed fleet, the hulks are the dedicated miners, the macks are providing logi support and the skiffs are offering offensive support to fight off the attackers. Suddenly the mining fleet is not defenseless vs a small gang.
Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we? - drones need time to reach target - skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter? (Using command to drones to 'defend fleet member' only means fleet does not use the whole available DPS of skiffs) - mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders? (Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets) - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Yeah, that is the obvious flaws in baltec1's suggestion which he just seemed to ignore.
What he wants is to go back to how it was before the buff to mining ships, so that miners are forced to fleet up or not log in.
Which is why he keeps talking about nerfing the base hp of skiffs, because if he can get that low enough then they can run around with a number of Kusion like fleets killing any solo miner with solo play.
Previously those people who tried to defend mining fleets were at a massive disadvantage and were set up to fail just as AG is set up to fail. All this suggestion is, is a ego boost for players like him using the mechanics to get joke kills, typical ganker bull shite.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:43:27 -
[169] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.
Explain how the skiff wont be for solo players or have a sizable tank.
You want to nerf its tank, simple as that.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:44:35 -
[170] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?
null but lets do highsec! March rabbit wrote: - drones need time to reach target - skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?
Flight time is nill if you are next to eachother which a fleet would be doing. Sebo on the skiff make locking a target rather fast. March rabbit wrote: - mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders? (Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)
As you said, small fleet you pre lock, large fleet you can fit a sebo. Due to the nature of shield reps they will land the second you lock. March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.
Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:45:28 -
[171] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.
By definition a one man corp is not a fleet. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:50:19 -
[172] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.
By definition a one man corp is not a fleet.
Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
238
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 14:55:17 -
[173] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:56:28 -
[174] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.
By definition a one man corp is not a fleet. Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite.
Only clueless noggin here is yourself. You have spent that last page ranting about being able to go solo and fit a tank to the skiff after repeatedly being shown nothing for you would change. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17944
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:58:33 -
[175] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever.
So don't be and idiot and get LE. This plan will give people options to defend themselves, not cure stupidity. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 15:10:28 -
[176] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.
By definition a one man corp is not a fleet. Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite. Only clueless noggin here is yourself. You have spent that last page ranting about not being able to go solo and fit a tank to the skiff after repeatedly being shown nothing for you would change.
Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part, that is what you directly asked for, because you want it so you can set up like the Kusions and be able to gank all mining ships with one player. That is a significant change and something I reject.
As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17944
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Posted - 2016.08.18 15:13:20 -
[177] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part
What part of adding more slots is hard to understand here? The only difference is you fit the tank rather than get it out of the box.
Dracvlad wrote: As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.
So don't be stupid. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
238
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 15:13:41 -
[178] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever. So don't be and idiot and get LE. This plan will give people options to defend themselves, not cure stupidity. Yep, put Procurers/Skiffs in your fleet, because according to you "they are now perfect mining escorts/defence boats for both fleet work and solo" but don't you dare to shoot back if attacked because that would give you a LE which in turn makes all your Mack-logis go suspect. That makes perfect sense.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
565
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Posted - 2016.08.18 15:14:56 -
[179] - Quote
Or just go suspect and kill whoever else attacks you too - always a fun option (though you would have to train combat skills I'm afraid)
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2256
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Posted - 2016.08.18 15:28:01 -
[180] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part
What part of adding more slots is hard to understand here? The only difference is you fit the tank rather than get it out of the box. Dracvlad wrote: As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.
So don't be stupid.
I add to that tank to get it higher than the base, I know exactly what I need to be able to tank to cover the likely special effort that some gankers would try on me. I have no faith in CCP adjusting this in any sensible way and expect that whatever they do will result in an overall lower EHP which is what you want.
Even the best players make mistake, you can ask VMG what happend to their logi when they attacked that first Medium Citadel in Perimeter. Miners have no clue in the main about such things, I am often explaining hisec mechanics to other players.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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