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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2261
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:45:28 -
[211] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Its a mining ship not a HAC n a fleet battle, bluntly that level of tank enables multi boxer solo gankers to kill every single mining ship no matter the tank.. From my perspective that is too low.
Using your logic even the veldnought can be killed. They have more than enough tank. Dracvlad wrote: And the 2 to 3 cycles, wow you really hate solo miners don't you.
So fit cargo expanders.
I am talking about Catalysts used by the Kusions as a base line, what the hell relevance does a dreadnought in hisec have to this?
And reduce its tank even further, yeah you will be happy.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17945
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:48:08 -
[212] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:i had thought of the cruiser thing.... give them the speed /agility / signature radius of a cruiser or HAC
but these ships are technicaly battlecruiser sized (mak has a signature rateing of 250, hulk is 200,... vs say a cerberus 195 or cyclone and hurricane both at 250), they also got almost as much volumn as the battlecruisers
they shoudl all have the speed / agility /signature radius ... and tank of battlecruisers
They are larger due to being industrial but the base is cruiser line hence the original stats. I would leave their mobility/agility/signature as is for now.
Gunrunner1775 wrote: then give 1 yield bonus, 1 gets cargo bonus, and 1 gets "offensive" bonus with drones
I would say that leaves with the same issues we currently have with mining ships. Ganking is a minor issue, the real problem comes with what happens outside of highsec. That's why I went with a logi specialisation for the mack and retriever so the mining fleet can hold its ground better. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17945
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:53:23 -
[213] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I am talking about Catalysts used by the Kusions as a base line, what the hell relevance does a dreadnought in hisec have to this?
Anything can be ganked with enough bodies, the amount it will take to kill an overheating skiff with the tank of a HAC is rather high.
Dracvlad wrote: And reduce its tank even further, yeah you will be happy.
If you are entering structure you are dead anyway. |
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
81
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 18:05:16 -
[214] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Ganking is a minor issue, the real problem comes with what happens outside of highsec. That's why I went with a logi specialisation for the mack and retriever so the mining fleet can hold its ground better.
ganking is the only issue realy... its ganking that lead to this imballance to begin with....
ive mined in wormholes, ive mined in nullsec, this imballance in type of ships used in mining has nothing to do with null sec or wormhole mining... in null/wh i would mine in a skiff if rest of my mates were not online, then we would form a small fleet and shift to hulks, and have 1 or 2 ships on combat air patrol provideing security ect
haveing a protective ship in fleet does not work in high sec due to the nature of criminal flags ect.... the protector can not do anything at all until the aggressor has suspect or criminal flag, and by that time, its too late... the advantage rests totaly in the hands of the aggressor... the only defense a miner has in high sec, is eyes on local and maximum tank possible
this is not the case of the ishtar were everyone was flying it, so nurf it and then people will fly other things
nurfing the tank on the skiff will not solve the problem,
lets hypotheticaly consider that they do nurf the tank on the skiff.. to the point were its significantly easier to gank.... what do you think the miners are going to do??? also, consider the bigger picture of the in game economy if such were to happen. how will this alter the nature of the game..... this is not a small ballance change your talking,
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Viktor Amarr
53
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Posted - 2016.08.18 18:16:00 -
[215] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
That is a too low a tank, set to be within a Kusion, I knew that was what you were after, pretty damn obvious...
If its enough for HACs when fighting several hundred people its enough for you vs highsec gankers. Its a mining ship not a HAC in a fleet battle, bluntly that level of tank enables multi boxer solo gankers to kill every single mining ship no matter the tank.. From my perspective that is too low. And the 2 to 3 cycles, wow you really hate solo miners don't you.
No just non-effort afk ones. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17946
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Posted - 2016.08.18 18:36:39 -
[216] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
ganking is the only issue realy... its ganking that lead to this imballance to begin with....
You would think that looking at the forums but in reality more are killed outside of highsec than in it. If we then add in barges that die to wars too then the numbers ganked are tiny.
Whining about ganking might have brought about the changes but the problem with the ships is, as always, much wider than just a niche group in highsec.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
566
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 18:43:05 -
[217] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Gunrunner1775 wrote:ganking is the only issue realy... its ganking that lead to this imballance to begin with.... You would think that looking at the forums but in reality more are killed outside of highsec than in it. If we then add in barges that die to wars too then the numbers ganked are tiny. Whining about ganking might have brought about the changes but the problem with the ships is, as always, much wider than just a niche group in highsec. Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand...
Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance...
Just saying... |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17946
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 18:49:13 -
[218] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand... Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance... Just saying...
Just because they ***** less doesn't mean they don't see the ships as pathetic. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
566
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 18:51:12 -
[219] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand... Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance... Just saying... Just because they ***** less doesn't mean they don't see the ships as pathetic. It doesn't mean they *do* see the ships as pathetic either...
edit: Indeed the roaming/camping skiff/procurer combat fleets would seem to indicate that they do *not* consider current mining ships to be too weak - rather they are fun ships to kill people with.
Also the truly weak ships are good for *BAIT* - and they will hate you if you take that away from them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17946
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:16:22 -
[220] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand... Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance... Just saying... Just because they ***** less doesn't mean they don't see the ships as pathetic. It doesn't mean they *do* see the ships as pathetic either... edit: Indeed the roaming/camping skiff/procurer combat fleets would seem to indicate that they do *not* consider current mining ships to be too weak - rather they are fun ships to kill people with. Also the truly weak ships are good for *BAIT* - and they will hate you if you take that away from them.
You're seriously defending the covetor? |
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
569
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:35:58 -
[221] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You're seriously defending the covetor? Outside of high-sec miners generally rely on separate combat ships to kill rats and defend them, so I don't see any particular problem with it there...
edit: And given your alliance you of all people should appreciate the value of good, tantalizing bait - even if you have to put the cyno on a separate cloaky ship |
Ded Akara
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 22:21:11 -
[222] - Quote
PLEASE PLEASE give the Hulk/Mackinkaw extra CPU or we're going to continue seeing 90% of miners in Skiffs. Skiff is the only barge that can fit max yield whilst having CPU free to fit a tank.
Mackinkaw + Hulk with 3 yields mods has no free CPU to fit tank mods. Even with just 2 yield mods they still struggle to fit much with such little CPU to use.
How is it right that a max yield Skiff with 3 yield mods can easily fit a full T2 tank, but a Mackinkaw or Hulk that has sacrificed one yield mod, (just 2 yield mod fitted) will struggle to fit tank modules? |
Solecist Project
32207
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 00:36:32 -
[223] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:Quote:
DEV BLOG
Ship Balancing: Mining Barges
2012-08-03 18:10 |By CCP Tallest
The goal here is to allow players to choose a barge that fits their specific play style rather than lead them on a journey from the worst barge to the best one. GÇó The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals. GÇó The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock. GÇó The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.
GÇó The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.looks like its doing its job AFK is literally by definition not a playstyle.
You can not use this as argument. Players would be perfectly safe in hulks and covetors with just a bit knowledge. The amount of attention one has to spend equals watching one properly set-up overview-tab in the background. They'd be prealigned and ready to warp.
As there is a cheap and easy solution to safely go for max yield setups, even with multiple accounts at once, it makes no sense to balance around people who don't want to play. They should be balanced just like every other ship.
Even a cheetah can kill someone without dieing first...
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
62
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 01:28:30 -
[224] - Quote
Maybe it would be productive to add new modules that enhance strip miners for mid slots. Sort of like tracking computers, but for strip miners, or drone navigation computers that give a very large bonus to mining drone speed. Nerf the base range of strip miners a bit maybe to force players into a trade-off for using them. Same with ore holds, maybe reduce them a bit and add rigs that increase only ore hold to give players a meaningful choice between tank and optimal mining. Hell, you could even add a secondary function to survey scanners. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
327
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 01:53:20 -
[225] - Quote
Local tank best tank. They don't get into weapons range, and they do 0 DPS.
The problem with mining isn't suicide gankers or buffer. It's that the best way to make money mining in hisec is so mind-numbingly boring and non-interactive, you can watch movies while the ice miners cycle and not lose any efficiency (ice doesn't require so much babysitting). Yaaaaaaawn. Still, that's a token activity you can halfway pay attention to while you plot and scheme your conquest of everywhere, so it shouldn't be ripped out entirely. It just shouldn't be the most efficient way to do it.
Diving wormholes for gas, not so much. Death is almost always a few inattentive seconds away, but the payout is way better if you find a good site and now how not to die to sleepers or other players.
If there were shiny ore sites which required probing with a venture/T2 version and some manual piloting, that would change the equation significantly. People who actively flew their mining ships would be able to make more with an actively flown Prospect than a half-asleep Skiff. It would be still better if this site required a good hacker to get into (teamwork!)-and, like some wormhole sites, de-spawned if everyone left after it was opened, so no hacking and flying back to get a mining ship unless you've got someone you can leave in the site for a minute.
A signature :o
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
633
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 06:13:27 -
[226] - Quote
I don't think I'm too happy with the kinds of barges the way they are now. They could easily be made into one hull with fitting options- for example using a Procurer as a baseline model. On that I have to agree with Baltec. There is of course the issue that, as someone else pointed out, there are no useful midslot modules that affect mining, and an expanded cargohold does not expand the orehold. These are however technicalities that can be worked out.
Now, adding such fitting options would of course obsolete the current lineup. Why? Because there is in fact only one relevant bonus a mining ship can receive: a yield bonus. And also because all three of them are roughly equivalent to two cruisers (or half a battlecruiser) -- it's not like one of them is a nimble destroyer-like miner and the other's a battlecruiser-style command ship miner. All three of them happen to be in the heavy-cruiser-almost-BC ballpark.
I am happy with the distinction between ninja mining frigates and barges; but rather than having a three-of-the-same lineup, perhaps we should repurpose one to be an armed platform which also happens to mine (some). The latter could be achieved by giving it a massive bonus to mining drones, freeing up (unbonused?) highslots with turret / launcher hardpoints to slap anything you like on there. More like a generic SOCT cruiser with an orehold than anything else, really.
As for the third one, I have some ideas but they feel like I'm trying to "invent" something just because there are three.
I doubt however CCP is going to do something outrageous like adding some combat capability to transports or barges. The tears would flood the old continent. Already some are flipping a gasket when a ship that costs two cruisers has a heavy cruiser's tank with a frigate's DPS.
Yet there it is: roll the current lineup into 1 model, and give us a Combat miner please. |
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
85
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 07:12:07 -
[227] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
AFK is literally by definition not a playstyle.
You can not use this as argument. Players would be perfectly safe in hulks and covetors with just a bit knowledge. The amount of attention one has to spend equals watching one properly set-up overview-tab in the background. They'd be prealigned and ready to warp.
As there is a cheap and easy solution to safely go for max yield setups, even with multiple accounts at once, it makes no sense to balance around people who don't want to play. They should be balanced just like every other ship.
Even a cheetah can kill someone without dieing first...
apparently you have not done any mineing in quite some time
AFK mining does not realy exist except for 1 exception, that would possibly be the makinaw doing ice mining
anyone that can pilot a hulk/mak/skiff.. is fairly maxed out in mining speed
hulks chew thru rocks so fast. you are constantly dragging and dropping in to the orca (or can).. you are constantly targeting new rocks .... you can not even get up and go to the restroom because the ore bay would be full befor you reach the restroom door.. its non stop clicking, Skiffs are almost like that.. takes a bit longer to fill them up, but again, your constantly clicking on new roids, clicking the survey module to scan..
the makinaw is realy the only one that could even be considered AFK mining, and only if mining ice at that
hell, you can AFK mine in the frigates easier then you can the exhumers, they take significantly longer to fill up due to slow rate of mining |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2268
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 07:50:56 -
[228] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
AFK is literally by definition not a playstyle.
You can not use this as argument. Players would be perfectly safe in hulks and covetors with just a bit knowledge. The amount of attention one has to spend equals watching one properly set-up overview-tab in the background. They'd be prealigned and ready to warp.
As there is a cheap and easy solution to safely go for max yield setups, even with multiple accounts at once, it makes no sense to balance around people who don't want to play. They should be balanced just like every other ship.
Even a cheetah can kill someone without dieing first...
apparently you have not done any mineing in quite some time AFK mining does not realy exist except for 1 exception, that would possibly be the makinaw doing ice mining anyone that can pilot a hulk/mak/skiff.. is fairly maxed out in mining speed hulks chew thru rocks so fast. you are constantly dragging and dropping in to the orca (or can).. you are constantly targeting new rocks .... you can not even get up and go to the restroom because the ore bay would be full befor you reach the restroom door.. its non stop clicking, Skiffs are almost like that.. takes a bit longer to fill them up, but again, your constantly clicking on new roids, clicking the survey module to scan.. the makinaw is realy the only one that could even be considered AFK mining, and only if mining ice at that hell, you can AFK mine in the frigates easier then you can the exhumers, they take significantly longer to fill up due to slow rate of mining
That is exactly what I thought, I mean most rocks I go after in my Skiff last for one and a half cycles, when you hear them say AFK mining you snigger at them with a knowing smile at their level of failness. As I fit for tank I don't even have a survey scanner on which is why I like the two strip miners, less wasted cycles...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2268
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 07:57:10 -
[229] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I don't think I'm too happy with the kinds of barges the way they are now. They could easily be made into one hull with fitting options- for example using a Procurer as a baseline model. On that I have to agree with Baltec. There is of course the issue that, as someone else pointed out, there are no useful midslot modules that affect mining, and an expanded cargohold does not expand the orehold. These are however technicalities that can be worked out.
Now, adding such fitting options would of course obsolete the current lineup. Why? Because there is in fact only one relevant bonus a mining ship can receive: a yield bonus. And also because all three of them are roughly equivalent to two cruisers (or half a battlecruiser) -- it's not like one of them is a nimble destroyer-like miner and the other's a battlecruiser-style command ship miner. All three of them happen to be in the heavy-cruiser-almost-BC ballpark.
I am happy with the distinction between ninja mining frigates and barges; but rather than having a three-of-the-same lineup, perhaps we should repurpose one to be an armed platform which also happens to mine (some). The latter could be achieved by giving it a massive bonus to mining drones, freeing up (unbonused?) highslots with turret / launcher hardpoints to slap anything you like on there. More like a generic SOCT cruiser with an orehold than anything else, really.
As for the third one, I have some ideas but they feel like I'm trying to "invent" something just because there are three.
I doubt however CCP is going to do something outrageous like adding some combat capability to transports or barges. The tears would flood the old continent. Already some are flipping a gasket when a ship that costs two cruisers has a heavy cruiser's tank with a frigate's DPS.
Yet there it is: roll the current lineup into 1 model, and give us a Combat miner please.
You should go looke at mine and Ralph's earlier exchange in this thread in terms of a combat miner.
The issue here is that the gankers hate the skiff because they cannot up their game enough to kill it unless someone fits it totally for yield, they want to be in the situation to be able to destroy every mining ship with the capabilities they have.
That is why baltec1 said 80k to 90k effective hitpoints, which is what they can put in the field without special effort. So take it from my perspective, I have to have a truly special effort on low SP skill points as an AG to gank a freighter wreck, while they want all barges set so they don't have to make a special effort. This is why I keep saying the balance is out of kilter.
My objective in all of this is to continue to have a mining ship that is a stretch goal, if CCP fails to understand that as an act of balance then there is truly no hope for them.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
176
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 08:28:53 -
[230] - Quote
Generally CCP should take another route. Exhumers cost as much as T1 Battleships so give them the slots like a battleship and the fitting resources (CPU, grid, cap, high slots). 2 Slots that are open for strip miners and then go on. In High some Ewar will be beneficial because it might keep the group of gankers long enough at bay for Concord to blap them. In low and Null you would go for a fighting fitting to stop the rats and some overconfident gankers. The difference would be in the mining bonus or the tank/offensive boni. Mining is boring because it is all passive. Think about a mining expedition in Low with a lot of skiffs. That should show small groups of gankers their pod and let them search for easier prey. |
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1870
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 09:22:06 -
[231] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - drones need time to reach target - skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?
Flight time is nill if you are next to eachother which a fleet would be doing. Sebo on the skiff make locking a target rather fast. March rabbit wrote: - mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders? (Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)
As you said, small fleet you pre lock, large fleet you can fit a sebo. Due to the nature of shield reps they will land the second you lock. Okey. So machs and skiffs should have place in middle slots group for sebos. Not sure if they have it now so i guess this is detail which needs to be kept in mind.
baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. LE is a relation between 2 players, not between player and corporation/alliance/fleet.
Not sure how being in the same corp/alliance/fleet helps here.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Solecist Project
32209
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 09:23:23 -
[232] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:apparently you have not done any mineing in quite some time
AFK mining does not realy exist except for 1 exception, that would possibly be the makinaw doing ice mining
anyone that can pilot a hulk/mak/skiff.. is fairly maxed out in mining speed
hulks chew thru rocks so fast. you are constantly dragging and dropping in to the orca (or can).. you are constantly targeting new rocks .... you can not even get up and go to the restroom because the ore bay would be full befor you reach the restroom door.. its non stop clicking, Skiffs are almost like that.. takes a bit longer to fill them up, but again, your constantly clicking on new roids, clicking the survey module to scan..
the makinaw is realy the only one that could even be considered AFK mining, and only if mining ice at that
hell, you can AFK mine in the frigates easier then you can the exhumers, they take significantly longer to fill up due to slow rate of mining Are you really serious or are you just really bad at attempting to kid yourself? The vast majority mines afk in a skiff, for obvious reasons, so there's no reason to include the hulk in this.
The skiff is the afk mining machine. Engage laser. Set alarm. Alt+tab or stand up and leave.
AFK is not a playstyle and that drivel of yours has absolutely nothing to do with it, by definition, because people don't go afk in ships that get filled too fast.
Try harder, seriously.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1870
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 09:28:58 -
[233] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:baltec1 wrote:March rabbit wrote: - providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.
Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing. That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever. So don't be and idiot and get LE. This plan will give people options to defend themselves, not cure stupidity. Well... That's the new way of combating suicide gankers
before: tank your mining ship and mine safely after: make dedicated fleet composition, be aware all the time, get into suspect status and deal with all these bored high-sec 'pvpers' with pimped ships, OGB and neutral logistics?
One thing can be said for sure: it WILL BE more interesting Not sure if there will be ONE such fleet which survived first full mining session tho.....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2269
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 10:46:01 -
[234] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Holy **** why even participate in this. You shouldn't support Drac's delusion that what he thinks matters to anyone but himself, but that is exactly what you pretty much do. I can't be the only one who notices, so wtf is going on? If any of you took this topic seriously, you'd be posting it where it matters. Instead you waste your time with someone who has no say in the matter ... ... constantly BEHAVES like he has any say on the matter ... ... and you play right into his delusions. I'll just go make that thread in F&I myself if you don't. Even Infinity Ziona has some up now and they're horrible!
Why so mad?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Solecist Project
32212
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Posted - 2016.08.19 10:59:04 -
[235] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Holy **** why even participate in this. You shouldn't support Drac's delusion that what he thinks matters to anyone but himself, but that is exactly what you pretty much do. I can't be the only one who notices, so wtf is going on? If any of you took this topic seriously, you'd be posting it where it matters. Instead you waste your time with someone who has no say in the matter ... ... constantly BEHAVES like he has any say on the matter ... ... and you play right into his delusions. I'll just go make that thread in F&I myself if you don't. Even Infinity Ziona has some up now and they're horrible! Why so mad? I could have asked you the same several pages ago, hypocrite, but i'm not such a child like you are.
Unlike you i don't get off of weak manipulation attempts and amuse myself when people actually care about the topic. Unlike you, who is so smug and arrogant, he's even believing that his word counts for anything.
I give you that, you keep the easy prey busy and ruin it for everyone else ... ... but your cold predicting of them makes you yourself just as predictable!
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2269
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 11:27:49 -
[236] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Holy **** why even participate in this. You shouldn't support Drac's delusion that what he thinks matters to anyone but himself, but that is exactly what you pretty much do. I can't be the only one who notices, so wtf is going on? If any of you took this topic seriously, you'd be posting it where it matters. Instead you waste your time with someone who has no say in the matter ... ... constantly BEHAVES like he has any say on the matter ... ... and you play right into his delusions. I'll just go make that thread in F&I myself if you don't. Even Infinity Ziona has some up now and they're horrible! Why so mad? I could have asked you the same several pages ago, hypocrite, but i'm not such a child like you are. Unlike you i don't get off of weak manipulation attempts and amuse myself when people actually care about the topic. Unlike you, who is so smug and arrogant, he's even believing that his word counts for anything. I give you that, you keep the easy prey busy and ruin it for everyone else ... ... but your cold predicting of them makes you yourself just as predictable!
Weak manipulation, I am putting forth a point of view, it is different to yours, grow up and deal with the fact that people have different opinions.
I don't want it so it to be easy to kill the hard prey, I want the gankers have to work for it not swan around blasting everything like they did before the previous balance pass...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17950
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Posted - 2016.08.19 16:26:04 -
[237] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Well... That's the new way of combating suicide gankers before: tank your mining ship and mine safely after: make dedicated fleet composition, be aware all the time, get into suspect status and deal with all these bored high-sec 'pvpers' with pimped ships, OGB and neutral logistics? One thing can be said for sure: it WILL BE more interesting Not sure if there will be ONE such fleet which survived first full mining session tho.....
I have killed those pirates with worse fleet setups in the past.
You could of course just fit a tanky hulk with some higgs and align to a safe. Or go with an AB skiff.
Out in null the fleet setup will be great especially when combined with the new Rorqual. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17950
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Posted - 2016.08.19 16:31:06 -
[238] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:[
So what we are talking about is reducing the tank of the Skiff so they can be ganked, the key thing is that at this moment Kusion has to use all his toons to kill one or get friends, so now we drop down to 7. Why does it have to be made so damn easy? That is my question every time!
So you are saying all t2 cruisers and most battlecruisers have too little tank? Because all of them can be killed by the same number of catalysts. Add a few more cats and you are killing battleships and pvp t3 cruisers. Escalate more and you can wipe out a dreadnought.
What you want is for CCP to make you safe rather than have the tools to do it for yourself, thats not good game balance. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
633
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Posted - 2016.08.19 16:36:47 -
[239] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: So you are saying all t2 cruisers and most battlecruisers have too little tank? Because all of them can be killed by the same number of catalysts. Add a few more cats and you are killing battleships and pvp t3 cruisers. Escalate more and you can wipe out a dreadnought.
Q: Then why don't you? A1: Because they shoot back. A2: Because they don't loiter in predictable locations: you have to probe them or tackle them quickly when they pass by. A3: Because of gate/stationguns. A4: Because of :reasons:
Which one is it?
Whether through fitting options or straight built into the hull, that tank is essential. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17950
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Posted - 2016.08.19 16:50:03 -
[240] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:baltec1 wrote: So you are saying all t2 cruisers and most battlecruisers have too little tank? Because all of them can be killed by the same number of catalysts. Add a few more cats and you are killing battleships and pvp t3 cruisers. Escalate more and you can wipe out a dreadnought.
Q: Then why don't you? A1: Because they shoot back. A2: Because they don't loiter in predictable locations: you have to probe them or tackle them quickly when they pass by. A3: Because of gate/stationguns. A4: Because of :reasons: Which one is it? Whether through fitting options or straight built into the hull, that tank is essential.
There is nothing to gain from trying to gank unprofitable combat ships.
80-90k with t2 gear is tank enough.
Lets not forget that the skiff has an offensive bonus that gives it the same firepower as a pilgrim or curse. Again, ganking only makes up a small part of the total barges killed, the barge rebalance should be based entire around your misguided obsessive hate of gankers. It should be based on what is best for these ships throughout EVE. |
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