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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
113
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Posted - 2016.08.22 13:44:47 -
[31] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:I cannot disagree with you at all. Rorqual mining might be a really good thing. And many of us in Null have the resources and player base to fill out a support fleet to use it properly. Many who don't have that level of support will moth-ball the things. So I still stand by my conjecture that Rorquals will be used less often.
I may be completely wrong. Only the next year will give the answers.
I agree they will be used less often. Even if the changes are "ideal" and rorqs are viable to use in belts, some players will still stop using rorqs. Some rorqs have always just been AFK in a POS all day long for larger mining groups to use. Some rorq pilots don't have any semblance of skills necessary to fly one where it may come under fire. Some people will just be afraid of losing one.
But I'd like to hope that for the people who do use rorqs wisely, they will be better off than they are now with it sitting behind a POS shield. Consider a solo miner with like 4-8 accounts. He probably has a rorq, 3-6 pilots in skiffs, and 0-1 pilots acting as a hauler. Suddenly his rorq: is in a belt providing boosts that are relatively better than what the average miner in null has since not everyone uses rorqs anymore, is in a belt getting its own yield of maybe 50m/hr with new super mining drones, is providing on-the-spot compression so that no hauler (or no warping in and out of the belt) is necessary anymore, is providing RR support so that hulks are a more attractive option instead of skiffs.
Sure, that rorq WILL die eventually. But after insurance, especially in a quiet area of null (which there are a lot of) or in an alliance where a fleet will happily form for some content that might save the rorq sometimes, it won't take very many hours of operation for that rorq to more than pay for itself. Anything after that point is gravy, more isk made than if the pilot had been using a BC or orca for boosts and not lost his booster... but missed out on the advantages the rorq has. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2234
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 18:14:18 -
[32] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:
Good Lord... it's not about the Gila. It's about the increased risk to to mining fleets, and the lower yield now that Rorquals will not be used nearly as often. Yes, mineral prices are going to go up and therefore so will ship prices. Domi cost is 200Mil now, 400-500M by January as an example.
Oh, wow. That triggered some sympathetic embarrassment.
About 2/3s of the cost of a domi hull is in Trit, Pyerite and Mexallon, predominantly sourced in high sec. The yields for these are unlikely to be impacted in any way.
Good luck with your prediction that null mineral values will quadruple. They wouldn't do that if you removed boosts entirely.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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JG Wentworth
877 Cache Now Shadow of xXDEATHXx
19
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Posted - 2016.08.22 18:25:39 -
[33] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Sure, that rorq WILL die eventually. But after insurance, especially in a quiet area of null (which there are a lot of) or in an alliance where a fleet will happily form for some content that might save the rorq sometimes, it won't take very many hours of operation for that rorq to more than pay for itself. Anything after that point is gravy, more isk made than if the pilot had been using a BC or orca for boosts and not lost his booster... but missed out on the advantages the rorq has.
I does not matter how quiet a nulsec region is when thera holes allow for the projection of overwhelming force to anywhere in the game. Once VOLTA (and friends) knows that you are sieging an roqual in x system, they will check that system whenever they get a hole in your region, (or nearby). I've seen them burn 25 jumps to tackle and kill ratting carriers (who are not immobilized for 5 minutes)
Once your system has several rorqual losses on zkillboard (especially in quiet regions where there are not very many targets), even roaming gangs will farm your rorquals. Also elite pvpers will put cloaky alts in your system and drop bombers on your rorqual. |
Hauler Haulington
Harvesters Of Massive Ores Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.08.22 18:52:54 -
[34] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Sheeth Athonille wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Just wait till mineral prices skyrocket, and the Gila goes from being 200m / hull to 600m / hull. Do you all honestly think ship prices aren't going to skyrocket due to mineral prices going up severly? I can't wait until all the minerals I am building up sky rocket in price up to the new normal of double or triple the price. You don't think it will happen then wait and see. Judging by your apparent knowledge of industry and pirate hulls, I think I might skip on your assessment. As for OP, I definitely agree that the most logical choice would be to simply remove the immobility. As was said, no other boosting ship has this handicap, so why should the rorq? It's just a ship name as an example. If mineral prices skyrocket in price, then so do ship prices. Stop reading everything for face value and just get the concept. If mineral prices were to skyrocket (exceedingly unlikely to happen due to this change, btw), more people will mine minerals, bringing the mineral price back in line.
If this was the real world you could assume that. But since this is a game, if something becomes too annoying to do, people will just quit the game altogether.
This is just another change that makes living in nullsec more annoying. It is bad enough we have dread spawns now in all the mining anomalies, we don't need more tedious nonsense. How about they fix all the bugs in the game instead and all the lag too?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2237
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:04:36 -
[35] - Quote
Hauler Haulington wrote:
If this was the real world you could assume that. But since this is a game, if something becomes too annoying to do, people will just quit the game altogether.
These complaints are growing rather insipid, now. Clearly you are not familiar with the things people will put themselves through in pursuit of more IPH. Furthermore, we're not talking about any change in the fundamental "annoyingness" of mining - just the yield.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6347
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:50:59 -
[36] - Quote
The Rorqual is getting a new skin.
Given the past record [ORE skin], don't expect further changes for another year or two.
[CCP Fozzie has stated November.] |
Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
84
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Posted - 2016.08.24 11:06:29 -
[37] - Quote
Is this guy whining about Rorqual being bad or V0lta being too good? ;) |
Lord Mudeki
The Cuckoo Collective Dot Dot Dot
0
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Posted - 2016.08.30 00:14:20 -
[38] - Quote
Sheeth Athonille wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Just wait till mineral prices skyrocket, and the Gila goes from being 200m / hull to 600m / hull. Do you all honestly think ship prices aren't going to skyrocket due to mineral prices going up severly? I can't wait until all the minerals I am building up sky rocket in price up to the new normal of double or triple the price. You don't think it will happen then wait and see. Judging by your apparent knowledge of industry and pirate hulls, I think I might skip on your assessment. As for OP, I definitely agree that the most logical choice would be to simply remove the immobility. As was said, no other boosting ship has this handicap, so why should the rorq?
Besides giving the added boosts over the Orca the Industrial Core was used in conjunction with Ore Blueprints that were needed to compress ore in the Rorqual, but with the changes that made compression instant in Citadels and pos compression arrays they removed those blueprints but still the indy core was needed to be active to compress ore in the rorqual. I have not seen anything about rorqual compression still having or being removed, I would say it would need to stay especially if they want people to put them in the belts. Which I really don't see happening even if it still does do compressions. |
Axe Coldon
64
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:14:52 -
[39] - Quote
47 6f 64 wrote:Build another one. If you are in null sec and your corp can't afford to replace a rorqual every few weeks, you are doing it wrong. The point of the game isn't to make stuff so that it never dies.
I call BS! A small corp doesn't mine enough to be replacing their rorqual all the time. Plus once the enemy figures out you are deploying them in system and can't defend, they will be there every day.
This change is a disaster for rorquals. This whole future of nothing is safe is bad. What made Eve great is somethings are sort of safe, and some are not.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17965
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 15:27:04 -
[40] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:How to: Unfuck the Rorqual.
Step 1: Remove mining boosts all together. Add the yield mining ships were getting through mining boosts to the hulls / stripminers / whatever, so they all still make the same yield.
This seems unneccesary; there's a perfectly good commandship that is especially devoted to providing mining boosts as it is.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Alex Pendaho
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.09.15 04:03:39 -
[41] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Sheeth Athonille wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Just wait till mineral prices skyrocket, and the Gila goes from being 200m / hull to 600m / hull. Do you all honestly think ship prices aren't going to skyrocket due to mineral prices going up severly? I can't wait until all the minerals I am building up sky rocket in price up to the new normal of double or triple the price. You don't think it will happen then wait and see. Judging by your apparent knowledge of industry and pirate hulls, I think I might skip on your assessment. As for OP, I definitely agree that the most logical choice would be to simply remove the immobility. As was said, no other boosting ship has this handicap, so why should the rorq? It's just a ship name as an example. If mineral prices skyrocket in price, then so do ship prices. Stop reading everything for face value and just get the concept. If mineral prices were to skyrocket (exceedingly unlikely to happen due to this change, btw), more people will mine minerals, bringing the mineral price back in line.
Not exactly... Miners are special kind of people, they don't mind being bored out of their minds. If ore prices doubled, we wouldnt see double the people mining..
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18028
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 07:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
JG Wentworth wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:Sure, that rorq WILL die eventually. But after insurance, especially in a quiet area of null (which there are a lot of) or in an alliance where a fleet will happily form for some content that might save the rorq sometimes, it won't take very many hours of operation for that rorq to more than pay for itself. Anything after that point is gravy, more isk made than if the pilot had been using a BC or orca for boosts and not lost his booster... but missed out on the advantages the rorq has. I does not matter how quiet a nulsec region is when thera holes allow for the projection of overwhelming force to anywhere in the game. Once VOLTA (and friends) knows that you are sieging an roqual in x system, they will check that system whenever they get a hole in your region, (or nearby). I've seen them burn 25 jumps to tackle and kill ratting carriers (who are not immobilized for 5 minutes) Once your system has several rorqual losses on zkillboard (especially in quiet regions where there are not very many targets), even roaming gangs will farm your rorquals. Also elite pvpers will put cloaky alts in your system and drop bombers on your rorqual.
If only there were some way of finding and eliminating these holes.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
27
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Posted - 2016.09.15 16:18:52 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:JG Wentworth wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:Sure, that rorq WILL die eventually. But after insurance, especially in a quiet area of null (which there are a lot of) or in an alliance where a fleet will happily form for some content that might save the rorq sometimes, it won't take very many hours of operation for that rorq to more than pay for itself. Anything after that point is gravy, more isk made than if the pilot had been using a BC or orca for boosts and not lost his booster... but missed out on the advantages the rorq has. I does not matter how quiet a nulsec region is when thera holes allow for the projection of overwhelming force to anywhere in the game. Once VOLTA (and friends) knows that you are sieging an roqual in x system, they will check that system whenever they get a hole in your region, (or nearby). I've seen them burn 25 jumps to tackle and kill ratting carriers (who are not immobilized for 5 minutes) Once your system has several rorqual losses on zkillboard (especially in quiet regions where there are not very many targets), even roaming gangs will farm your rorquals. Also elite pvpers will put cloaky alts in your system and drop bombers on your rorqual. If only there were some way of finding and eliminating these holes.
when you mention this first thing that came to my mind qould be scannign wh down and jumping with heavy ship back and forth to overload it....
you risk being stuck on the inside though |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18065
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 04:27:04 -
[44] - Quote
Alex Pendaho wrote:
Not exactly... Miners are special kind of people, they don't mind being bored out of their minds. If ore prices doubled, we wouldnt see double the people mining..
People picked up ice mining during the mining interdictions when the ice price skyrocketed. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
480
|
Posted - 2016.09.25 06:17:46 -
[45] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but cannot command ships also provide mining boost?
Sure probably not as awesome as a Roc but I would think going down to a cheaper cost hull would be less of an issue when full security is not available. |
Arianne Kass
Garoun Long-Term Capital Management
5
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Posted - 2016.09.25 08:59:34 -
[46] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but cannot command ships also provide mining boost?
Sure probably not as awesome as a Roc but I would think going down to a cheaper cost hull would be less of an issue when full security is not available.
The normal command ships and strategic cruisers are not bonused for mining boosts, but there will be a new mining command ship for this very purpose. The dev blog on the new boosts gives some details, but mostly everyone is still waiting for another dev post containing the ship details. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18122
|
Posted - 2016.09.27 07:56:33 -
[47] - Quote
So apparently the Rorq will give a higher mining boost (+5%/level) than any other ship even while unseiged, or you can opt for an even greater bonus while seiged if you want to risk it. And it'll also be able to mine at whatever rate these alleged "Heavy Mining Drones" allow; presumably those drones will also not require seige mode.
So all you've got to do is align to POS/Citadel at 2/3 speed and keep an eye on local. Cap ships instawarp as well as anything else.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 01:48:19 -
[48] - Quote
Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18130
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 16:54:43 -
[49] - Quote
Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity.
Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6422
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 17:36:19 -
[50] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead. |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2367
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 18:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead.
True today, but under the new model, the rorqual actually boosts more than the orca even while unsieged, so not necessarily true, then. Plus, those capital mining drones, and at least the potential to rescue a fleet.
For a given fleet of barges, over a given period of time, you would have to consider:
-The earning delta while rorqual boosted Vs. orca boosted. -The expected frequency of loss of the booster, times the replacement cost . -The expected frequency of loss of barges, times the replacement cost. -Earning from cap mining drones against replacement cost of cap mining drones abandoned in panic-warps.
While the gap is certainly wider while fit, but current market prices and zkill insurance estimates are:
Orca: Price: 723M Platinum cost: 220.3M Platinum Payout: 734.4M
So the replacement cost of the hull is only about 209M, provided it blows up at least every 90 days.
Rorqual: Price: 2.2B (cheapest I see right now) Platinum cost: 665M Platinum payout: 2.215B
So a replacement cost of about 650M, again, provided it pops at least every 90 days.
Again, while the difference in replacement cost will certainly go up with fittings, that's not a huge span to bridge, especially when you consider that the rorqual COULD potentially reduce the cost of lost hulls from the remainder of the fleet with its PANIC button. Save a single hulk and you've essentially made up the difference in the hull replacement.
I don't think it's outside the realm of reason at all to think that there are people who will fill in the remaining variables and decide that the rorqual works better for them.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Mai Hantaka
Dangerous Dutch Carebears Apocalypse Now.
10
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Posted - 2016.09.28 19:33:27 -
[52] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote: True today, but under the new model, the rorqual actually boosts more than the orca even while unsieged, so not necessarily true, then. Plus, those capital mining drones, and at least the potential to rescue a fleet.
For a given fleet of barges, over a given period of time, you would have to consider:
-The earning delta while rorqual boosted Vs. orca boosted. -The expected frequency of loss of the booster, times the replacement cost . -The expected frequency of loss of barges, times the replacement cost. -Earning from cap mining drones against replacement cost of cap mining drones abandoned in panic-warps.
Hardest to quantify is the loss in mining time due to your Rorqual attracting additional cloaky campers and roaming hotdroppers to your area.
Warping out is easy enough (I expect an increased demand in capital Higgs Anchor rigs so Rorquals can stay aligned), the most dangerous time is when warping back to the belt. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18130
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 20:56:57 -
[53] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead.
IIRC, the unseiged Rorq will still give better boosts (+5%/level) than the Orca (+4%/lvl). With the additional benefit of being able to do some mining in its own right via whatever output the "heavy mining drones" yield.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2379
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Posted - 2016.09.29 17:49:38 -
[54] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead. IIRC, the unseiged Rorq will still give better boosts (+5%/level) than the Orca (+4%/lvl). With the additional benefit of being able to do some mining in its own right via whatever output the "heavy mining drones" yield.
It's actually 5%/lvl Vs. 3%/lvl for the Orca, unless something has changed since the devblog.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6425
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 23:59:21 -
[55] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead. True today, but under the new model, the rorqual actually boosts more than the orca even while unsieged, so not necessarily true, then. Plus, those capital mining drones, and at least the potential to rescue a fleet. It is a 3% difference between an unsieged Rorqual and an Orca.
Even CCP Fozzie has said a Rorqual in a belt is silly, and the proposed changes do nothing to change that. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
29
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Posted - 2016.09.30 18:04:16 -
[56] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis wrote:Raindeth wrote:Only way I see this possibly ok is if Rorquals get infinite point and bubble immunity. Don't be ridiculous. An aligned Rorq can instantly warp, it's at no greater or even less risk than the mining barges. ... unless the Industrial Core is active, which is the only reason an Orca wouldn't be boosting instead. True today, but under the new model, the rorqual actually boosts more than the orca even while unsieged, so not necessarily true, then. Plus, those capital mining drones, and at least the potential to rescue a fleet. It is a 3% difference between an unsieged Rorqual and an Orca. Even CCP Fozzie has said a Rorqual in a belt is silly, and the proposed changes do nothing to change that.
from the very same quote:
"So the goal here will be to make a ship that is the kind of thing you want to put into a belt, with extremely strong defensive bonuses, and the ability to not only protect itself but its friends, and the ability to provide also a strong benefit to your mining fleet. Get these things out where they're in a bit of some danger, but also where that danger is manageable, where it is actually sane to put them into that danger." |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6425
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 10:02:40 -
[57] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:from the very same quote:
"So the goal here will be to make a ship that is the kind of thing you want to put into a belt, with extremely strong defensive bonuses, and the ability to not only protect itself but its friends, and the ability to provide also a strong benefit to your mining fleet. Get these things out where they're in a bit of some danger, but also where that danger is manageable, where it is actually sane to put them into that danger." To quote myself, "... and the proposed changes do nothing to change that." |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
105
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Posted - 2016.10.01 16:21:35 -
[58] - Quote
Everyone needs to remember that they want to make the game more entertaining by having miners put their capital ships out to be destroyed. They have hardly any defense and this is why miners have always been attacked. The nature of people is to pick on the weakest and in general these are the weakest ships in eve. The changes are coming and no amount of whining will change it. In case everyone has not missed it, the Dev team could give a rats ass what the opinions of the players are, its that simple.
So there are really two choices, adapt or find something else to do. For us that having been doing mining or industry for years, we will adapt. The cheap command ship and the cheap T1 mining ships will be the way to go. I have made plenty of money over the years and wouldn't mind seeing mineral prices climb, which they should.
After 10+ years of eve, it is simply my paperweight that I enjoy doing fleets on the weekends. There are always other ways of making money and it might be nice to shelve my other accounts for awhile, we will see how they make it. A suggestion for me is to simply increase all the mining ships defensive capabilities to a certain extent. Couple of easy suggestions.
A: Increase drone damage on the mining barges / exhumers, rorqual and orca B: Allow the rorqual to deploy 10 drones at once, at least give it a chance to swat what is holding it down. C: Give it a quicker align time
These still would not get me to put any capital ship in a belt, but hell it would be nice to at least have a fighting chance to swat whatever scrub has you locked down. At the end of the day all miners need to remember that you capital will get blown up and your alliance or corp will not be happy with you losing things like this in the belt. In the end if you want to continue to do mining, you will simply have to adapt with the times and go with the small command ship. The rest of the arguments on this are fruitless.
Eve has always been a game that makes you change with the times or find a different game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18134
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 17:08:03 -
[59] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:from the very same quote:
"So the goal here will be to make a ship that is the kind of thing you want to put into a belt, with extremely strong defensive bonuses, and the ability to not only protect itself but its friends, and the ability to provide also a strong benefit to your mining fleet. Get these things out where they're in a bit of some danger, but also where that danger is manageable, where it is actually sane to put them into that danger." To quote myself, "... and the proposed changes do nothing to change that."
To quote yourself talking about changes being discussed over 2 years ago.
IMO much depends on these mining fighters, and of course whatever functions the Industrial Core can provide. If the Rorqual can mine about as much as an Exhumer while providing markedly better bonuses even while unseiged, then putting it in a belt will not only be a worthwhile, but a no-brainer; none of those things precude being aligned.
I agree a further 1.25x increase on the mining bonuses seems a bit thin on it's own to justify seiging, but if the Rorqual can also do on-site compression and maybe increased production from the fighters too, then yeah people will absolutely do it. 0.0 is risky, but the risks of 0.0 are subject to mitigation. Wormholes aren't indetectible, gates can be bubbled, interceptors can be killed. The unspoken subtext here seems to be not that the Rorqual won't be worth putting into anoms (who belt mines?) but that people will have to put a little effort into that mitigation.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
105
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Posted - 2016.10.01 17:21:03 -
[60] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:from the very same quote:
"So the goal here will be to make a ship that is the kind of thing you want to put into a belt, with extremely strong defensive bonuses, and the ability to not only protect itself but its friends, and the ability to provide also a strong benefit to your mining fleet. Get these things out where they're in a bit of some danger, but also where that danger is manageable, where it is actually sane to put them into that danger." To quote myself, "... and the proposed changes do nothing to change that." To quote yourself talking about changes being discussed over 2 years ago. IMO much depends on these mining fighters, and of course whatever functions the Industrial Core can provide. If the Rorqual can mine about as much as an Exhumer while providing markedly better bonuses even while unseiged, then putting it in a belt will not only be a worthwhile, but a no-brainer; none of those things precude being aligned. I agree a further 1.25x increase on the mining bonuses seems a bit thin on it's own to justify seiging, but if the Rorqual can also do on-site compression and maybe increased production from the fighters too, then yeah people will absolutely do it. 0.0 is risky, but the risks of 0.0 are subject to mitigation. Wormholes aren't indetectible, gates can be bubbled, interceptors can be killed. The unspoken subtext here seems to be not that the Rorqual won't be worth putting into anoms (who belt mines?) but that people will have to put a little effort into that mitigation.
I disagree here most alliances will not tolerate you lose that ship and rest assured you will. It is just too big and juicy of a kill to pass up, plus it really can not defend itself. I mean honestly, if it had some defensive capabilities like a carrier you might be able to defend. I small gang can take one out with relative ease, or even one T3 cruiser. It is what it is, the team has always been at odds with the player base that plays the game. I always adapt to their changes and already sold my rorqual and will sell the orcas
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