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Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1
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Posted - 2016.08.18 11:24:18 -
[1] - Quote
Been thinking about these new capital rats. Was investigating what it might take to solo them. Figured they would scale up a bit from battleship rats and based off of the stuff I've read they scale way way up! And this got me thinking, if these new rats need a small coordinated fleet to take down, a nice feature, why are the battleship rats so weak? Why does it take approximately 350 DPS to down them? Why not make a huge re balance on rats and make them more formidable? Make it so if you want to be in 1.0 mining belts, ya, they wont do much, but in 0.5 you might actually need a T2 tank + T2 drones to handle them well (right now you need 1 T1 drone with zero tank upgrades/mods and your fine). Low sec (not that anyone does it), you might actually get pushed out of a belt if your got a Retriever with T2 tank/drones. Procurer should be just fine for any Low Sec rat. And Null sec ratting, for the most part you should need a T2 Mining Barge. In Null a Hulk should be the go to ship for solo mining. And it should still not be able to 'handle' all the rats. This rat difficulty proposal would make mining a little more challenging and disrupt afk mining activities quite a bit.
You could still afk mine in High Sec, you just need a tougher set up.
Stronger rats should equal better rewards. I'll leave that for CCP to figure out but overall rat income would improve.
This will also bring back Belt ratting as a legitimate activity that would be worth doing. Imagine a battleship rat that you could not kill with just a frigate? Imagine that BS rats would be worth hunting with larger ships. Still would be ideal to use a scout for speed, find a rat BS, then have to come back with something bigger to handle it. In fact, I hope that the difficulty of these rats puts it more or less on par with needing something closer to a PVP fit but definitely in the solo-able range. I'm thinking assault/pirate cruiser in Null, T1 in Low, however, it should not be necessary to have BS in low if the respected cruisers and BC are doing that job. Hunting BS rats should not be very plausible for new bros. Right now a 1M SP toon could easily fit a variety of different kinds of ships and kill. They should require similar SP requirements that meet that of doing missioning and anomalies. The 1 to 5 odd rats that spawn in a belt should be on part (with something closer to a PVP fit) as doing a whole pocket of rats in an anomaly/mission.
These Rats should be harder then mission rats in other words and we should have to fit and have the skills to do them. But be balanced that mining barges can deal with them in respects to the Security space they are in.
And while I'm on the subject: If you have positive standings with the rats empire THEY WONT ATTACK YOU. So it still plausible for a way to safely mine in respects to whom your friends and foes are. Why not have that way with gate rats too?
T3 immune to remote reps.
Remove Insurance from game.
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Belt/Gate Rats need to be formidable/threatening/rewarding to kill.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
951
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Posted - 2016.08.18 14:40:27 -
[2] - Quote
Bobman Smith wrote:Make it so if you want to be in 1.0 mining belts, ya, they wont do much, but in 0.5 you might actually need a T2 tank + T2 drones to handle them well (right now you need 1 T1 drone with zero tank upgrades/mods and your fine). Another lousy idea brought to you by your local veteran player. I was mining in a 0.5 system within minutes of starting the game, yet for all practical purposes this idea would have made that impossible. In the high sec ore belts the number and strength of the rats needs to be limited so that new players flying new player ships / fits have at least a chance to fight off the rats and stay in the belt mining. If you make it so that a T2 tank AND T2 drones are needed to survive or fight off the rats that would not be possible.
Moving out of the ore belts and into the rest of what EvE has to offer. In high sec I am more of the mind set that we leave things as they are. Yes much of the high sec content is stupidly easy for the vets and yet there is a lot of it that can easily overpower the newer players who stumble into it with out knowing what they are upo against. And in the end this the way it should be, easy stuff for those in their first few days in the game and tougher stuff that needs more time and more ISK to be able to handle.
Low, nul and worm holes are an entirely different set of circumstances. Part of me says that at least some of it needs to stay as is so those lower SP players with smaller wallet balances have something they can handle. But I see no reason that the rats should not be more difficult at the upper ends of the content since this would better match up to the increasing capabilities of the ships we vets fly. Level 5 mission are one example, they were intended for small groups and back a number of years the capabilities of the ships was lower and it was rare for one person to run level 5's solo in a sub-cap, now people running them solo in sub-caps is a common everyday occurrence. |
Zoltan Lazar
258
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Posted - 2016.08.18 17:22:03 -
[3] - Quote
As much as I abhor miners, I think making it too difficult to tank in HS is bad. LS/null/WH definitely, make them harder. But HS shouldn't have significant difficulty for newer players unless they seek it out. (that said, they should reduce income from HS mining relative to LS/null/Wh even more) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56122
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Posted - 2016.08.18 22:16:58 -
[4] - Quote
That would be a very big job for Dev's to re-program all belt rats, definitely a lot more trouble than what it's worth, especially when there's lots of other things in game that needs to be fixed.
I find it strange how some people say they want NPC's to be PvP yet can't be arsed to actually engage in PvP with real players.
Belt rats have already been nerfed too much, from reduced loot drops to diminished spawn mechanics. They definitely don't need to be made more difficult. Currently belt ratting is not a big game play activity. Increased loot drops and more spawns would generate more player activity with that content.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1
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Posted - 2016.08.18 22:44:23 -
[5] - Quote
Ya, I agree more or less with what your both saying. HS should not be to unforgiving for new players. Eve is hard enough on them as it its. Increasing the difficulty to mine in low/null/wh is where I'm getting at but with that said, that added risk should be more profitable. This should increase the logistical demands of living in low/null/wh. Want to mine? Better get a good mining ship. If appropriately skilled and flown in its respected true sec location a tanky mining barge should handle most of the rats. But it should take your attention. I don't think any mining barge should survive a fight with a rat BS gang. You should have to warp out and come back with a strong ship to take them out. But this new 'thing' should be lucrative to be worth doing.
Without spending a **** ton of time crunching hardcore numbers, here is what I would propose:
HS: F/D Low: C/BC Null: B/Caps WH: vary it up depending on the class
But keep it as a gang, a Rat BS should be accompanied with a point/web rat. There should be a little bit of a small fleet composition to this idea. It should be respectably challenge for its Security status.
Give what is the current rat meta aprox 5 times its 'power' and thus 5 times its bounties payments. A single rat fig should be equivalent to 5 of its respected anomaly rats in 'power'.
As for new players wanting to mine in 0.5 space, maybe they wont have the SP to handle all of the rat combos. Maybe they might have to consider having their mission ship near by to handle the tough nuts. Or they will have to drop down to a 0.4 or 0.3 space till they have the SP. It really does not take that long to get T2 light drones and T2 shield tank. These are important skills to get and they will feel incentivized to train them. Eve is all about purposeful progression. Even in HS this progression should be apparent.
T3 immune to remote reps.
Remove Insurance from game.
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Belt/Gate Rats need to be formidable/threatening/rewarding to kill.
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Woobie Wookie
Dirty Nudest Girl Ego Buster Corp
1
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Posted - 2016.08.19 11:21:28 -
[6] - Quote
I second what Bobman's saying. DeMichael Crimson, your right, it would be some work for the devs. But would it not be worth it in a way? An upgrade that 'modernizes' the rats to a higher standard then what they are so they are worth having in the game other then a minor tank test to prevent the worse fit ships from afking in space where they should not be? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56130
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Posted - 2016.08.19 20:12:40 -
[7] - Quote
NPC rats already have unlimited cap, excessive targeting range and never run out of munitions. Not to mention powerful EWAR and multiple propulsion effects.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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