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Paddie Whack
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.08.23 06:27:29 -
[151] - Quote
Once again, NO |
Solecist Project
32331
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Posted - 2016.08.23 08:16:17 -
[152] - Quote
Hey, now I'm literally Hitler! It only took seven years until someone called me Hitler.
Fascinating!
But what's even more fascinating:
"FORCIBLY SUPPRESSING OPPOSITION, AND CRITICISM. EMPHASIZING AN AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM(LOYALTY TO THE GAME), AND RACISM(DUMB PEOPLE, ENTITLED, WHINY, IDIOTS, NON-QUALITY)"
The only ones who forcibly suppress criticism are carebears who spread their hate, as the forums prove. And as you prove. It's like calling everyone who is against hording masses of refugees as Nazi or racist. It shuts them up, because of the social issues connected with it.
Aggrressive nationalism. Do you even understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism?
Racism. That's a funny one. Again, there is nothing "racist" about opposing people who do the same **** you do ... ... like trying to stop any criticism by spreading hate in the shallow name of "good". You're not a good person! Have a friend read your posts out loud for you!
i can assure you that i am not literally hitler ... ... though at some point in 2012 i actually figured out how to pull that one off.
Wasn't my cup of tea, so i spread the idea in Hek local. ^_^
I really wished you'd realize how you are far more representing of what you "hate".
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Typos. the curse of mobility.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1874
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Posted - 2016.08.23 10:07:47 -
[153] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: People today don't realise how very ******* easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. I call that the trap of progress (progress in this case meaning as time has gone on, things have gotten cheaper and easier for people, which denies people a sense of 'context' when it comes to value).. When i was 9 years old (1983...where has the time gone) my parents decided (after some begging on my part) to let me go to the arcade at the mall down the street from our house by myself. Most games were a quarter and that was real money to me then, I made 10 bucks cutting a whole a yard front and back, but the ones that let you sit down were usually 50 cents. Star Wars was one of them.. I'd maybe get a whole 3 minutes of play for 50 cents before I'd invariably crash into a damn wall lol. The force was weak with my 9 year old butt. Fast forward 33 years and 50 cents gets me 1410 minutes of game time in EVE Online yet someone EVE is so terribly expensive people are having problems paying for it.. Maybe that's part of the problem when people talk about how 'expensive' EVE is, lack of context for younger people maybe? I wouldn't go that far tho. Today's arcade games ask for 1 EURO per round. And for these money you get 1 race in 'Need For Speed' or 1 round in Terminator. Couple minutes at max in any case.
So yeah....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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roberts dragon
The Scope Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2016.08.23 11:53:09 -
[154] - Quote
I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26656
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Posted - 2016.08.23 12:20:58 -
[155] - Quote
roberts dragon wrote:I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you
A 13 year old subscription game going free to play?
It's not hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:16:39 -
[156] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:SWTOR I fail to see how that caters to "entitlement". You can play the game for free, yes, but it is severely hindered by various things. Exactly. This is your precious 'industry standard', the abuse of customers. A few exceptions to this standard don't make it a good model, nor does it make it one that would suit EVE. You're also trying to apply 'industry standard' to a game that is nowhere near industry standard.
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. |
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:21:06 -
[157] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Hey, now I'm literally Hitler! It only took seven years until someone called me Hitler.
Fascinating!
But what's even more fascinating:
"FORCIBLY SUPPRESSING OPPOSITION, AND CRITICISM. EMPHASIZING AN AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM(LOYALTY TO THE GAME), AND RACISM(DUMB PEOPLE, ENTITLED, WHINY, IDIOTS, NON-QUALITY)"
The only ones who forcibly suppress criticism are carebears who spread their hate, as the forums prove. And as you prove. It's like calling everyone who is against hording masses of refugees as Nazi or racist. It shuts them up, because of the social issues connected with it.
Aggrressive nationalism. Do you even understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism?
Racism. That's a funny one. Again, there is nothing "racist" about opposing people who do the same **** you do ... ... like trying to stop any criticism by spreading hate in the shallow name of "good". You're not a good person! Have a friend read your posts out loud for you!
i can assure you that i am not literally hitler ... ... though at some point in 2012 i actually figured out how to pull that one off.
Wasn't my cup of tea, so i spread the idea in Hek local. ^_^
I really wished you'd realize how you are far more representing of what you "hate".
TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7780
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:26:31 -
[158] - Quote
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is.
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
62
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:37:16 -
[159] - Quote
A 13 year old subscription game going free to play?
It wouldn't be hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP.[/quote]
There is a paradox here.
If business was great and customers constantly stable, increasing or with predicted years of growth then there would be no need to rethink the business model. However, if through various reasons, the business model is showing that the future may not be stable and that the end is nigh, wouldn't that indicate that CCP needs to do something different, most likely on the more drastic side of the equation?
If something is dying and needs to adapt, telling it that if it changes it will die is a moot point. It's a bit of denial.
The gaming world today is vastly different than it was 13 years ago and the age of subs is clearly over...why kill eve if there is a chance to change its direction through a modified business model?
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:58:06 -
[160] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. |
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7781
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Posted - 2016.08.23 14:01:56 -
[161] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:If business was great and customers constantly stable, increasing or with predicted years of growth then there would be no need to rethink the business model. However, if through various reasons, the business model is showing that the future may not be stable and that the end is nigh, wouldn't that indicate that CCP needs to do something different, most likely on the more drastic side of the equation?
You make an excellent point, but not the one you think you've made.
If EVE goes F2P or not, it won't be up to anyone on this forum. All of these 'arguments' are useless without the data to show one way or the other the health of the game now, and what effect changing to an F2P model would have. Only CCP have that info, but anyone that's been here for more than a few minutes and understands well enough the core nature of EVE online knows that F2P would damage the game at its most fundamental level, that of its mechanics. Much of the game would have to change to implement the model, and how much would that cost? Did CCP just invest as much as they did in server upgrades because the company/game is unhealthy?
Of course they didn't. Here's the other problem.
F2P models rely on a very small number of people paying lots of money to keep the game afloat, aka 'whales'. Anyone that takes the game seriously enough now to be one such whale is going to bail if the game goes F2P though, so the game will have to attract new ones, which means getting new people with an actual interest and passion for EVE Online to play if CCP wants to turn some modicum of a profit. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who play f2p games are extremely casual and fleeting. With the old guard gone, CCP are going to have a lot more work to do to attract said whales, than if they'd just paid more attention to people who have a real passion for this game and didn't do some of the stupid **** they've done in the first place to chase them off.
As noted above, CCP are still investing a lot of money in this game, and despite making some rather dumb moves, they haven't really done anything to EVE that looks like an act of desperation yet. They're nowhere near even considering an F2P model, but when they do, you can bet your bottom dollar that EVE will indeed be on its final legs.
F2P doesn't save games. In order to successfully implement a free to play model, you have to design the game itself with that model in mind. Or have a really popular IP on the box, like Star Wars (seriously, SWTOR only survived because it's star wars and we all know it. I quite enjoy it myself, but even I won't deny it's tacky and cheap implimentation and presentation throughout most of it).
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Jack AmarrX
IMPERIAL EAGLE
17
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Posted - 2016.08.23 14:12:11 -
[162] - Quote
I think if EVE does go FTP (I don't think it should, but it's worth considering at least) the F2P version should be the base game, as it exists now.
Limiting the people paying for free in any way (restricting them to hi-sec for example, or not letting them join corps) will be bad for the game as it will promote styles of game play that EVE is not necessarily well suited to (solo missioning/mining) and lots of players (though not all) will get bored and drop off rather quickly. F2P has to retain players.
It's also hard to introduce paid for expansions, because every expansion in EVE normally adds depth, rather than brand new content that you can gate for paying customers only. You could argue that citadels could be gated, only being able to construct them if you are a paying customer, but then subscribers could accept ISK to set them up, circumventing this issue. You could stop free accounts from docking with them, but as Outposts and POS's bow out, that will make it very hard for free players to play in nulsec or wormholes. Gating update content is thus too impractical to consider, IMO.
So where would the money come from?
SKINS and Apparel could be a good source. Skins would need it's pricing changed, focusing on quantity, and apparel will need to be accompanied by more meaningful WiS, but both offer a source of income for CCP that does not affect the game in any way.
Buying Aurum and ISK might also be good. Aurum should be sold in packages on the market. Similar to the PLEX market. You buy Aurum for real world money, and you can either sell it to another player at a rate dictated by the market, or exchange it for skins and apparel. This adds a way for players to buy ISK with real world currency.
A third option, Subscribers, could be added. Perhaps once a month they are given a load of Aurum, some skill injectors and some limited edition skins, corp logos on ships, and other goodies. As long as the monthly payout is more than the individual worth of the items in real world currency, there will be a market for it.
The subscribers could also have access to the only gated content I can see working, and that's Capital ships. Dreds, Carriers, Super carriers, Titans, Freighters and Jump Freighters, as well as the Orca and Roqual could be quite easily locked to free accounts.
So in EVE real world currency would buy you - Skill Injectors, ISK, Skins, Apparel and everything included under the subscriber rewards scheme, as well as access to capital ships.
Now some of you might argue that buying SP and ISK with real world currency is P2W. I think that's incorrect. The most important resource in EVE is the actual experience of the pilot. ISK and SP are important resources, but only to a relatively finite degree, and disadvantages in either can be easily overcome with our friend N+1. 10 pilots with 10mil SP will always beat one pilot with 100 mil SP.
The only way EVE could become P2W is if they add modules, weapons and ammo that provide a huge advantage and little draw back to fitting them. I doubt they ever would.
Anyway just my 2 cents. As I said I think the subscriber model is best, CCP just need to focus on getting old players to return, and new players to stay.
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Solecist Project
32342
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Posted - 2016.08.23 14:17:35 -
[163] - Quote
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. This is perfect. You read things with bias and don't recognize that you have bias ... ... and no matter what anyone would say ... ... you are stuck in your belief.
Then you pull a Hitler and talk about oppression ... ... not realizing that the only one here who tries to oppress discussion is you: By whoring cheaply via "youmad" and "hemad" and grabbing attention ... ... distracting and driving away those who want to talk about the topic.
And people actually waste time talking to you...
You prove my points about certain people with your very own behaviour ... ... so please keep going.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Typos. the curse of mobility.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7783
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Posted - 2016.08.23 14:18:54 -
[164] - Quote
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears.
I guess I'll have to keep this line on a clipboard somewhere specifically for replying to you.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
I even wrote a whole post elaborating on Sol's point, and you ignored that too. Well done. You have successfully exceeeded the point that I thought was the limit of human ignorance. /GolfClap
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.23 14:51:18 -
[165] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. This is perfect. You read things with bias and don't recognize that you have bias ... ... and no matter what anyone would say ... ... you are stuck in your belief. Then you pull a Hitler and talk about oppression ... ... not realizing that the only one here who tries to oppress discussion is you: By whoring cheaply via "youmad" and "hemad" and grabbing attention ... ... distracting and driving away those who want to talk about the topic. And people actually waste time talking to you... You prove my points about certain people with your very own behaviour ... ... so please keep going.
lol. Defining Fascism and then describing your actions as sort of mirroring that sort of thing doesn't make me Hitler. Nice try. Then you are going on about how I'm proving your point about certain "non-quality" people. (I injected that part, because we shouldn't forget that you started the whole people quality control thing here in this thread.) To justify your own terrible behavior on the forums. Gotcha. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
304
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 14:59:44 -
[166] - Quote
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
64
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Posted - 2016.08.23 15:25:03 -
[167] - Quote
I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
305
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Posted - 2016.08.23 15:32:52 -
[168] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness....
One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8622
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 16:26:01 -
[169] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Caco De'mon wrote:I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server.
Re-affirming the forum software is shite.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3450
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 16:27:17 -
[170] - Quote
NO, not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
This is not a signature.
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
64
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:49:14 -
[171] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Caco De'mon wrote:I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server.
I did what you do here for FOCUS and suggest you push for better software as Doc is right, whatever runs this forum is pretty horrible...
(thanks for answering though)
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Solecist Project
32351
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Posted - 2016.08.23 19:51:39 -
[172] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:Caco De'mon wrote:I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server. I did what you do here for FOCUS and suggest you push for better software as Doc is right, whatever runs this forum is pretty horrible... (thanks for answering though) They are considering Disquss as new forum, iirc. A dev mentioned it some time ago..
Which reminds me of an idea for an additional forum which I had. A truly gigantic subforum that has no equals and would be worthy of EVE ONLINE.
Also... I kind of like you.
You seem smart, though you (still/so far) lack the desire to seek out ... ... the fundamental parts ... ... that actually make up the things you try to build logical constructs for.
Most likely because you haven't realized their existence yet. ^_^
And now I may have helped you realizing, because I pointed out their existence ... ... and deliberately sent your brain on a journey towards understanding the thinking process itself.
...
That's 10 bucks, super discount for you.
:)
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Radical Posture
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:38:47 -
[173] - Quote
Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector. |
roberts dragon
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 09:45:23 -
[174] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:roberts dragon wrote:I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you
A 13 year old subscription game going free to play? It wouldn't be hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP.
if you look at what happened with the elder scrolls online I was beta tester they told us never go free to play and look at it now no subs , as I have said business is business they would get wads more players and would I think earn more cash that would get new/more content .
so long term it be better to move forward and do free to play with limited options like they do in runescape to name 1 and micro transactions also do what the gambling sites do in eve sell isk plex on ebay .
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3416
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Posted - 2016.08.26 10:11:32 -
[175] - Quote
Radical Posture wrote:Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector.
so just free cyno alts and scouts everywhere?
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
147
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 10:17:27 -
[176] - Quote
TBH, a typical F2P mmo these days has "premium" subscription costing - what a surprise - around what P2P mmos used to. And the whole game is structured in a way, that playing without it is somewhere between completely pointless and highly frustrating.
EvE is not that far away from that. TBH main difference is that our "premium" sub is still mandatory, and the cash shop is relatively clean (with extractors being none the less a touchy subject).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Reinhardt Kreiss
2
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Posted - 2016.08.26 10:25:45 -
[177] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Radical Posture wrote:Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector. so just free cyno alts and scouts everywhere?
I'm always amazed at how terrible people are at understanding the implications of (their own) ideas. The game would be full of maxed out miners, haulers, traders, mission runners and whatnot. None of them paying one single cent. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3451
|
Posted - 2016.08.26 11:15:27 -
[178] - Quote
If Eve ever became p2w - f2p or any variation thereof, I would not threaten to quit, I would simply allow my sub to expire and take early retirement.
CCP has, as have many game companies, made foolish decisions (loot spew was an example) but I do not believe that they would be that foolish unless the game was dying anyway, in which case my quitting would only be my getting off a sinking ship.
PS, I just avert my eyes when cash for skills is mentioned.
This is not a signature.
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
73
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:49:22 -
[179] - Quote
Quote:If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. - Valkin Mordirc
Quote:I like Eve as a sub game and if it went to F2P, the chances of me quitting are extremely likely. - Roenok Baalnorn
Quote:If Eve ever became p2w - f2p or any variation thereof, I would not threaten to quit, I would simply allow my sub to expire and take early retirement. - Josef Djugashvilis
Ciao!
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
342
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:12:50 -
[180] - Quote
Since CCP has opened an official thread on this topic, I will close this thread so the discussion can move over there,
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491738&find=unread
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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