Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
7 Gate
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 01:56:28 -
[1] - Quote
hello iam planning to start fcing and iam wondering what ship / doctrine would you appropriate for 7 / 10 player with relatively low sp and isk i have been thinking of destroyer or t1 cruiser with maybe some maulus what ship do you think i should use ? Brawl kiting sniping ? I have eft corax and talwar i have a nice 1100 alpha with t1 missile launcher but the dps is bad and i dont think it could alpha any ship with only 10 of them So what do you think i should use for have the best chance of getting kill ? Training t2 weapon and having 1 or 2 week of skill needed for ship is not a problem just nothing much Thank |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
884
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 02:20:45 -
[2] - Quote
Talwars are pretty awesome, but they require a surprisingly high-end skillset to really get the most from them.
Longbow Cormorants are also a good, long range sniper choice, but generally you'd want more than ~10 of them.
10MN AB, web/scram, hulltanked, 75mm rail Algos can be very nasty once you get a hold of something and have a solid ~15-20km engagement envelope.
None of these are particularly expensive, so try 'em all out and see which one works for you and your gang. With good warp-ins and careful selection of targets, you can get some good kills with any of these.
Good luck, have fun, die gloriously in a fire.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1663
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 03:34:02 -
[3] - Quote
could do the good ol' thrasher gang and even slip some T1 frig logi. |
7 Gate
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 04:01:12 -
[4] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Talwars are pretty awesome, but they require a surprisingly high-end skillset to really get the most from them.
Longbow Cormorants are also a good, long range sniper choice, but generally you'd want more than ~10 of them.
10MN AB, web/scram, hulltanked, 75mm rail Algos can be very nasty once you get a hold of something and have a solid ~15-20km engagement envelope.
None of these are particularly expensive, so try 'em all out and see which one works for you and your gang. With good warp-ins and careful selection of targets, you can get some good kills with any of these.
Good luck, have fun, die gloriously in a fire.
Thank for you're reply yes actually i was trying to get into missile launcher because the meta 4 isnt so bad compared to the t2 so it would save some skilling time for other things but missile launcher doesnt seem so effective at that scale atleast the meta one
It was what i was thinking no enough dps for breaking something with cormorant but i think i will still try this
It seem like a very interesting concept you mean a fit like this http://imgur.com/a/0s9Mx ? With a mix of half scrambler half disruptor and maybe some ewar in the mid ? If i understand well the doctrine concept is to kite brawler at 20 km and brawl kiter close range what should i engage or not engage ? And you suggest maybe some logi or ewar frig with or better max out the number of algos ? |
7 Gate
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 04:14:22 -
[5] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:could do the good ol' thrasher gang and even slip some T1 frig logi.
Seem good you mean brawling thrasher ? Shield or armor tanked ? |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1266
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 05:52:18 -
[6] - Quote
The best way to learn is just get out there. Your 7 to 10 guys may not all be able to fly the same ships, so ask them to take the ship they are best in. These are known as 'kitchen sink fleets' and sometimes they work quite well. When you find a ship that works well most of the time, ask them to train towards that ship. Then create a doctrine etc. etc.
You're going to lose ships, but you'll also find out who can man up for that, and who will cry like a little girl. Your crew is just as important as the ships. What you are really working towards, is a good crew. |
7 Gate
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 06:07:17 -
[7] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:The best way to learn is just get out there. Your 7 to 10 guys may not all be able to fly the same ships, so ask them to take the ship they are best in. These are known as 'kitchen sink fleets' and sometimes they work quite well. When you find a ship that works well most of the time, ask them to train towards that ship. Then create a doctrine etc. etc.
You're going to lose ships, but you'll also find out who can man up for that, and who will cry like a little girl. Your crew is just as important as the ships. What you are really working towards, is a good crew.
I want to fight everytime i can and i dont plan to have full skill for start roaming but doing kitchen sink with unexperienced and low sp player will probably only result in blobbing someone or getting easily killed i just want to maximize chance of winning fight and doing interesting fight |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1370
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 08:41:16 -
[8] - Quote
That is a very wide reaching question for a ship and modules section. The warfare and tactics section which was intended for those questions - which ended up being the whine-section for faction warfare kids.
Anyhow, when you do command your troops, I would suggest you ask them what they can fly first and not to ditch a boat they have never seen on them.
Say your troops are flying Caldari most of the time, you can then go ahead and "build" your gang around those. If you "force" them to fly a Coercer instead, you will lead your troops into a minefield.
Now with your Caldari gang, you choose a ship that suits your (and only yours!!) style of flying preference.
For this example, I will take my all-time favorite beginner ship - the Moa. And my style of flying is kitey for arguments sake.
The first thing you want to do is to ask yourself what weapons would be best to use in your case. To keep is simple I define, there are only short- and long-range guns.
Here is your first order of business, you decide on the guns to use and for kiting and long(er) range projection are railguns.
Having decided on your guns is paramount, since it influences your fit.
(by the way, I chose kiting because it causes more tears and rage wherever you go)
So your Moa is now set on railguns and to not complicate things too much, you want to have a shield buffer fit. This will keep you mobile and the Moa is very forgiving with the resistance bonus.
Your first order of business is done.
Your second order of business is communication.
You need tell your mates that only the fleet commander talks and everyone else is quiet unless spoken to. This will take a little getting used to because you have the bucket load of responsibility on your shoulders and not only are you in charge, you do not want to fail your mates.
Before you undock and decide where to go, talk to your mates and listen to them and if you feel you are not quite in sync yet, go to an asteroid belt and practice a little.
Use the "duel" thing to make controlled duals between each of your gang mates. That way everyone of your mates gets to familiarize themselves to the ships they will be flying and how to kite.
When your mates tell you, they are good to go, you can go out and lead.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
886
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 10:31:19 -
[9] - Quote
7 Gate wrote:It seem like a very interesting concept you mean a fit like this http://imgur.com/a/0s9Mx ? With a mix of half scrambler half disruptor and maybe some ewar in the mid ? If i understand well the doctrine concept is to kite brawler at 20 km and brawl kiter close range what should i engage or not engage ? And you suggest maybe some logi or ewar frig with or better max out the number of algos ?
i honestly wouldn't bother with T2 rigs in the beginning, T1 are fine and will help keep costs down.
The object is to blast away at just inside scram range, but your overall engagement range is nicely larger allowing for some flexibility when trying to spread tackle on multiple targets.
Fitting a couple with long points isn't a bad idea, maybe also fit those ships with tracking or guidance disruptors? if you fit meta web/scram (and maybe drop a DDA II for a bulkhead) you should also be able to squeeze a small Neut into the utility highslot, which will really broaden the potential target list.
Being hulltanked, I wouldn't bother with Logi. A couple of Crucifiers, Sentinels, Dragoons or Griffins (neuts/ewar), Maulus Navy, Fleet Firetail or other tackle boat or Vigil Navy (webs/paints) would certainly be a bit of a boon. 10 of those Algos landing together is going to seriously wreck most lone subcaps day. If you have the numbers, go wild on the support fleet. Personally, I would want to bring a probing CovOps frigate along before a dedicated EWAR boat.
Good luck! I love the Algos myself, I reckon it's one of the best looking ships in the game.
(NOTE: Using the 10MN AB means you'll turn and maneuver like an aircraft carrier. Get used to pulsing your prop mod when you need to make radical course corrections.)
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1666
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 17:16:32 -
[10] - Quote
[Thrasher, arty gang]
Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S [Empty High slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I
This is a low-sp effective fit.
You're each alphaing around 1000 damage per shot so this will make real short work of anything cruiser and smaller |
|
Valkin Mordirc
2418
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 17:56:30 -
[11] - Quote
[Thrasher, Unnamed loadout] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Agnel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S 250mm Light 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel EMP S [Small Energy Neutralizer II]
Small Transverse Bulkhead I Small Transverse Bulkhead I Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Here's a Hulltanked version of Tsukino fit as well. Little less PwG heavy, and get a web and Neut. But You lose about 1k worth of tank.
EDIT: Don't use Arch Angel, I misclicked when I made the fit, is Rep Fleet.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17908
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 18:10:41 -
[12] - Quote
7 Gate wrote:hello iam planning to start fcing and iam wondering what ship / doctrine would you appropriate for 7 / 10 player with relatively low sp and isk i have been thinking of destroyer or t1 cruiser with maybe some maulus what ship do you think i should use ? Brawl kiting sniping ? I have eft corax and talwar i have a nice 1100 alpha with t1 missile launcher but the dps is bad and i dont think it could alpha any ship with only 10 of them So what do you think i should use for have the best chance of getting kill ? Training t2 weapon and having 1 or 2 week of skill needed for ship is not a problem just nothing much Thank
How low SP is "low SP"? Sub 1m or sub 5m?
Are your 7-10 guys willing to accept a skillplan from you?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.20 23:18:23 -
[13] - Quote
Protip: On such small gangs, don't go for a "doctrine". Agree on a type of tank, a type of propmod, a size of ships and go. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
377
|
Posted - 2016.08.21 21:06:29 -
[14] - Quote
I disagree with Autism here. With small gangs, you cannot afford much in the way of snowflakes. The FC really needs fairly consistent things like engagement range. Especially in a world where alpha damage is so important. Ships of relatively similar speed, range, etc are important. T3D's are a solid choice. A tackler or two, some basic logi, and DPS enough to overcome local or logi reps. T3D's are nice because of their versatility and ability to punch above their weight. With such a small gang, chances are you will only have a handful of DPS boats. Links can also be a big force multiplier for small gangs. Kiting doctrines are nice because it lets the FC do the flying for the most part (the rest of the fleet 'anchors' on the FC) while letting the fleet concentrate on applying DPS and Reps as needed.
|
Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
9
|
Posted - 2016.08.21 23:01:41 -
[15] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:I disagree with Autism here. With small gangs, you cannot afford much in the way of snowflakes. The FC really needs fairly consistent things like engagement range. Especially in a world where alpha damage is so important. Ships of relatively similar speed, range, etc are important. T3D's are a solid choice. A tackler or two, some basic logi, and DPS enough to overcome local or logi reps. T3D's are nice because of their versatility and ability to punch above their weight. With such a small gang, chances are you will only have a handful of DPS boats. Links can also be a big force multiplier for small gangs. Kiting doctrines are nice because it lets the FC do the flying for the most part (the rest of the fleet 'anchors' on the FC) while letting the fleet concentrate on applying DPS and Reps as needed.
Your post is a nice collection of everything that's wrong with EVE. :p
- "Fly doctrine, cause you have to fly the same ships!" - Mindsets
- T3Ds
- Brining Logi on small gangs: Nothing says "we're risk averse" more than this.
- Links
- Anchoring, let the FC do the job
Except for T3Ds, and sometimes even for T3Ds, this is all valid points when you fly fleets of size 50+, and are fighting over some space important objectives. For a small gang flying around, this is everything you can make wrong. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1372
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 10:36:33 -
[16] - Quote
Autism Intensifies wrote:...Except for T3Ds, and sometimes even for T3Ds, this is all valid points when you fly fleets of size 50+, and are fighting over some space important objectives. For a small gang flying around, this is everything you can make wrong.
Shush dammit, he is supposed to learn by experience. This is ships and modules, not warfare and tactics.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Viktor Amarr
97
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 11:18:52 -
[17] - Quote
What you choose to use fully depends on where you want to be fighting and what you will generally run into in that area, so it's very difficult to list "a fit".
You group doesn't necessarily have to have the same ship types as long as they have the same strategy, no point in having half your ships apply damage at 30km while the other half can only do so at 10km. So if you don't want to "boss around" your newbies forcing them to fly a single ship type (let them find their own niche and fun) then just make sure they have similar strategies, speed and tank type.
Apart from that, using turret ships forces them and you to understand and apply active piloting to make the guns works properly, it's very easy to mess up a fight simply by moving too much, too little or doing it in the wrong direction or being at the wrong range. Drone setups can be tricky as well, they require extra management and if you have to leave the scene in a pinch you WILL leave behind 50% of your drone dps, if not more. It's just going to happen.
That is why missile setups work so well. They have range, decent dps and don't rely on piloting to perform. So destroyer wise that would the the Talwar or perhaps the Corax but again, perhaps you want them to find their own play and ship styles.
Apart from that you need to understand that just having "dps" isn't enough, you will want a scout and there's always ppl who enjoy "ranged support", put them in an ECM frigate for instance. |
Valkin Mordirc
2422
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 06:03:34 -
[18] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:I disagree with Autism here. With small gangs, you cannot afford much in the way of snowflakes. The FC really needs fairly consistent things like engagement range. Especially in a world where alpha damage is so important. Ships of relatively similar speed, range, etc are important. T3D's are a solid choice. A tackler or two, some basic logi, and DPS enough to overcome local or logi reps. T3D's are nice because of their versatility and ability to punch above their weight. With such a small gang, chances are you will only have a handful of DPS boats. Links can also be a big force multiplier for small gangs. Kiting doctrines are nice because it lets the FC do the flying for the most part (the rest of the fleet 'anchors' on the FC) while letting the fleet concentrate on applying DPS and Reps as needed.
This is literally cancer.
He's asking for low SP, so links are basically out of the question.
T3D's are meta tryhard.
Also if you really want to go meta try hard. It better to go,
Oracle, Orthrus Orthrus Sviple Keres Scimi Crow
Or something overly chessure like that.
Also people who need an anchor in small gang are bad.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
887
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 07:16:12 -
[19] - Quote
Autism Intensifies wrote:Protip: On such small gangs, don't go for a "doctrine". Agree on a type of tank, a type of propmod, a size of ships and go.
this is pretty good advice. i'd also consider the basic variants of kite/snipe vs brawl.
that said, a uniform fleet-fit that all your newbros can get into fairly quickly is a nice thing to have and can lead to some fun fights.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1682
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 14:58:06 -
[20] - Quote
I used to be along the line of thought that people should have the freedom to choose their own ship etc and just fit it to the parameters you give.
Experience has taught me this almost never works, people like having something given to them and the fun (mostly) comes from flying the ship and killing things rather than attempting to theorycraft their own.
Obviously this isn't true for everyone but I've seen newbie fleets have a lot more success when a fit is sent out instead of just asking to bring "something kitey that can hit out to 20km" |
|
Tung Yoggi
Null Sect
137
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 15:14:03 -
[21] - Quote
Seconding Tsukino on this; kitchen sink is horrific, know that you can bring "******" ships and yet have synergies and consistency.
Also it's better to have a consistent engagement range and DPS type rather than a rainbow of weird weapon systems that turn a focused fire into a spaghetti laser show.
Try RLML caracals, a tackler, and possibly some cheap ewar (celestis / bellicose). A doctrine is better for an aspiring FC, as well as for a bunch of guys with various levels of game mechs knowledge. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
377
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 15:50:25 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah, we wouldn't want to be effective or anything.
Fleet composition? Forget that...better to run kitchen sinks and die repeatedly. Rather than say, form a fleet of co-operative and effective ships each performing their own roles. Why would anyone want to specialize in a role and explore deeper gameplay or tactics when you can just spam whatever failfit modules you slap on? Makes perfect sense.
You can tell these people are not FC's and would fail if they tried. Much like any real military, an FC often counts on knowing his own force's capabilities. This is why real military units do not rely on people bringing their own personal gear to war. You are issued identical gear, that performs similarly and works within the confines of given tactics.
Ship speed, engagement ranges, time to warp, etc are all important for an FC to know so he can know what to engage and what not to. It drives the on field tactics needed to succeed. Anyone can fly around in a kitchen sink fleet and die miserably. Just ask anyone in the failed Live Event a couple years ago where huge numbers of high sec pilots flying in run-what-ya-brung fleets died to a handful of well organized and effective null sec fleets.
Logi..you know, a specific fleet role with entire ship classes for it...better to ignore that and just die in a fire. Or....a specific and critical fleet role that is often the difference between victory and defeat. Much beloved by fleet members and usually primary for the enemy to shoot. Engagement range and speed similar to the main body are critical here. You are no good to your main body if your ship can't keep up with them and you are out of rep range. EWAR..force multiplier that can easily allow small gangs to punch above their weight, or often times simply escape a bad situation. Turning the tables on a smug enemy fleet is one of life's great joys. T3's....versatility. Gee, who would want that in a small gang? The ability to take on larger fleets with solid tanking, fight as either brawlers with tank, or kiters with speed...or counter either..yeah, just terrible.
Or, just fly around failfit and un-coordinated and wonder why your PvP experience is losing constantly.
The OP is right for trying to be GOOD at this game. Working with other people, flying in a fleet designed to be more than just the sum of it's parts. That's why in a short amount of time his KB will be far better than the pack of scrublords telling him to ignore game mechanics, fleet synergy, and useful tactics. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1267
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 05:31:19 -
[23] - Quote
All kitchen sinks don't die repeatedly. That's a load of crap. A competent group of pilots, in ships they fly well, can be just as effective as a doctrine fleet. You can still bring Logi, E-war, recons and what have you to do those jobs, but it's NOT a requirement to have fun. Most kitchen sink fleets fly till they die. They take any and all fights, and they don't run away so they can preserve a kill board ratio. It's a different mindset.
The problem with doctrines, is they make the fleet members feel like sheeple. Train this! Fly this! Fit like this! Shut up on comms! It's not all that much fun for most people. The reason it works, is an FC can herd his sheep easier, but it doesn't necessarily make them better pilots. It ruins the game for many of them.
Every new FC is going to lose fights. Most won't be good until they fly in a hundred or more fights. Experienced fighters is what turns fights. Get your guys out there shooting and flying. 10 experienced pilots will beat 15 sheeple every day.
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1686
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 06:09:58 -
[24] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:A competent group of pilots, in ships they fly well, can be just as effective as a doctrine fleet.
we are talking about a bunch of new players, not Chessur and his gang. |
Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 12:31:53 -
[25] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:RavenPaine wrote:A competent group of pilots, in ships they fly well, can be just as effective as a doctrine fleet. we are talking about a bunch of new players, not Chessur and his gang.
Guess how the elite pvp guys learned to fly good.
Hint: Not by flying a Doctrine Caracal pressing F1 on broadcasted targets, orbitting their Anchor at 2500. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1688
|
Posted - 2016.08.24 15:09:50 -
[26] - Quote
elite pvpers had to start from somewhere too.
Being in a small dessy gang in no way relegates you to being an F1 monkey just because you're all flying the same fit. This might be the way you fly in the first few fleets because there's just no way to deal with the information overload other than to hand some of the job to someone else (like anchoring).
Even the elite in gangs they use a lot of fleet pvp mechanics that you see in large scale blob warfare like broadcasting targets.
You're just delusional if you think that everyone just started out as some pvp prodigy with no such training at all. Some people do solo only (like Fintarue) but it shows very clearly whenever he streams himself in a fleet that he's nowhere near as comfortable as someone like Chessur who regularly flies micro-gang |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2184
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 16:08:11 -
[27] - Quote
I've pvp'd doctrineless my whole eve career. I don't think I've done all that bad. A player flying a ship that he likes to fly and fies well will always be better than the same pilot flying some doctrine ship he was shoehorned into and doesn't enjoy flying.
That being said....
Kitchen sink is relative. Here's how it works in my corp:
1. Be it pve or pvp fits, we're all in corp together and spend a lot of time discussing our fits and everyone elses. They get worked and reworked almost constantly. The good fits get passed around and maybe saved in corp fittings and the bad ones get helped until they can make muster.
2. We have no doctrines, but we do have a general requirements for each fleet we go with. An example of that would be that if we call for an armor fleet w/ no logi then cap stability needs to be considered for the fit you're bringing. If an armor fleet is called and you bring a curse then cap stability is still important (oneiros logi) or not as important (guardians that can hand out some cap as needed). Knowing the difference and knowing that you have to speak up and let the logi pilots and the FC both know you're in a cap fragile curse fit before you head out to fight are both important.
3. Our pilots need to understand what each kitchen sink requires. Again, armor or shield, logi supported or not. We may even ask for local rep ships and not even care about shield or armor with the understanding that each man on that particular fight is responsible for his own survival.
If you look closely at who is saying what some things will become evident. Executive Outcomes is a big fat poorly staffed sov null outfit. The don't have the luxury of allowing all X-thousand of their members discuss fits - one reason being their sheer numbers - 500 guys can't talk about a caracal fit at the same time. Small gang groups lean toward the kitchen sink for reasons I've mentioned above.
So, the first fitting choice you have is what type of fleets you want to fly in. You make that choice at the corp join window, not the fitting window. If you want to be told what to train, be handed a ship, told where to warp, when to warp, who to anchor up on, who to shoot, when to reload and much much more - then Executive Outcomes (or any other such very large outfit) is the place for you. If you want to do small gang and hot drop shenanigans and the occasional large scale fight, there are some pretty awesome LS corps I can send you towards. If you want to shoot defenseless noobs on the Jita undock, there is a this for that also. Big picture, who you join has the most influence on what and how you fly. That's the first choice.
Once that decision is in the rear view mirror and you settle in with your mates, then all this discussion applies. AND the group you're flying with will dictate if you end up F1ing caracals at max tidi while elite pilots wait to see if the aeon they attacked 15 minutes ago died or warped off or whatever or if you're in an equally boring brick t3 armor gang with 6 guardians, 2 link boats and 6 jamgus supporting you or you're flying in a nirvana kitchen sink fleet that fits together but allows for personally creativity and style.
In conclusion. Listen to these boobs as a source of input and assign your own value amounts to what they say. Just because some know it all stooge has been in a SOV null F1 monkey fleet his whole life doesn't mean that's the correct way to fly in all cases. Eve gives you room to find and perfect your own sense of style and elite pvp.
Do you think 2 sliepnirs, 1 cerb, 3 cyclones, 1 malediction, 1 drake and a bifrost is a kitchen sink fleet? In some cases it is and in others it isn't. Not all brains are big enough to realize that.
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1698
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 16:14:50 -
[28] - Quote
in almost all cases, if opposing fleets have pilots of equal skill level in terms of piloting and sp, the fleet who has a cohesive and well thought out doctrine will win.
Take rooks and kings in their prime for example, winning fights outnumbered sometimes well over 2:1, do they fly kitchen sink? Hell no |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
130
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 16:19:41 -
[29] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:In conclusion. Listen to these boobs as a source of input...
i've woken up at this last words! may be worth to copypasta them at the start of your post
jk
good suggestion btw! |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2185
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 16:43:38 -
[30] - Quote
7 Gate wrote:hello iam planning to start fcing and iam wondering what ship / doctrine would you appropriate for 7 / 10 player with relatively low sp and isk i have been thinking of destroyer or t1 cruiser with maybe some maulus what ship do you think i should use ? Brawl kiting sniping ? I have eft corax and talwar i have a nice 1100 alpha with t1 missile launcher but the dps is bad and i dont think it could alpha any ship with only 10 of them So what do you think i should use for have the best chance of getting kill ? Training t2 weapon and having 1 or 2 week of skill needed for ship is not a problem just nothing much Thank
Based on your supplied details:
You're on the right track with cruisers and destroyers. Looks like you're OK with filtering through the gobs and gobs of Eve 'good ideas' that are available.
The part where you are considering 1100 volley damage X10 giving you 11000 worth of bang is kind of fuzzy math. If you're using rails/blasters and I'm in an assault frigate w/ 95% resists to kin/therm damage you have to take 2 zeros off your fleet volley damage and dial it down to 110. If I'm moving your tracking goes down (a good bit if you don't have the support skills) and your alpha goes down even more. If you're moving too then transversal might be horrible and your group may combine for 50 damage.
If you're in a blaster thorax fleet and I'm orbiting you at 20km - you'll only be doing drone damage to me as blaster won't reach. If you're rail fit I may move in under your guns to minimize damage.
My point? The truth of EFT numbers vary from some to greatly in the face of combat. So do the volley and dps numbers. They are indicators and don't actually reflect reality.
My real fitting advice to guys just starting out. Consider getting in with an established group that does the kind of pvp you want to do. Act like a sponge and just absorb all they have to offer. If you guys are determined to go it alone and work all that stuff out on your own - great!!, but understand that you'll lose ships and keep your focus on learning and getting better and not on winning and losing. Celebrate the wins, but keep the focus on what did and didn't work. Point out who did what right and wrong and keep going. When groups pvp to win only, then it gets pretty unfun pretty quickly.
Keep your expectations realistic. Winning a fight may mean you took down one opposing Cerberus AND got all your pods back home safely. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |