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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1881
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:10:49 -
[661] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Arrendis wrote: In small groups, you remove the force multipliers .... Yes, they've applied their boosts... once. If they can't apply them again, then you've reduced the effectiveness of the rest of the fleet with that one kill.
You reduce the effectiveness of the fleet two minutes from now. That's a really long time in the small group fights you're talking about.
Yes it is - which is why, as I said, it's a fluid determination. Can you hold them for two minutes? Can you nail the booster and then stay our of their way for two minutes? Will popping the booster cause them to withdraw so as not to risk that 2-minute timer?
Did you pop him immediately after he boosted, or 60-90 seconds after? That comes into play, too. |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
439
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 17:11:23 -
[662] - Quote
FearlessLittleToaster wrote: If the above is how the Rorq is going to work going forward they will become the toys of only the biggest and best organized blocs. As a Goon that would actually be kinda nice for me personally, but crushing thousands of other miners in smaller outfits would be horrible overall. There is no way a hundred man mining corp could use Rorquals if they lived within a couple BLOPS jumps of a halfway decent lowsec outfit, let alone PL or Goons.
Why is that a bad thing? Smaller groups get Porpoise and Orcas. Larger groups field *capital* boosters. This idea that the smallest mining group should have the best boosts because the current state of the game allows everyone to have zero risk boosts is silly. It is exactly the scenario being fixed by this change. Your boost capabilities scale with your size or your risk level.
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xXxNIMRODxXx
Crusader Brewery
36
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:17:30 -
[663] - Quote
My question:
Don't you think that ammoes for Comm. Bursts are a bit too much? Wouldn't it be better to just use scripts?
You're modifying a core mechanic, which includes also touching Mining Links, not only Combats, do you see it feasible for, say, an Orca, an industrialist, the necessity to -also- care every now and then to build ammoes just to provide a simple thing like Mining Links? I find it just another layer of stress added to the game, and not a valid or entertaining gameplay solution.
edit: one more general question: you are committing to get rid of AFK gameplay, which we all agree on, but why don't you also come up with something to fix the most detrimental effect still present nowadays: afk cloaky campers? |
Mark SilverStep
MATARSOC
0
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:18:25 -
[664] - Quote
Hi, As i can see some of the advantages in solo / small fleet pvp where there was no telling if passive boost/link was applied I am a bit worried - because it took me ff-ing ages to skill up for this boosting role. And nowhere I see or read if these skills will be covering the new system - does that mean i wasted millions of isk and time?
Further more - being a fairly new player - I allready have seen so manny changes, either little or big roll-outs, keeping me running in the dark trying to catch up in a game that allready need a lot of effort en time to learn all the mechanics.
Why all these changes? - leave it at it is for a couple of years - it's great ! Then nobody has to change his gameplay every time - and finaly get used to it and/or good in what he or she is doing - skiling for etc. without being just there - and WHAaa change again - start over.
Only change the feedback on a vessel that has passive boost/link applied to it (say in D-scan) so its opponent can see what is going on.
I see some numebers being given for the levels of boost - but what about their radius? field of effectiveness?
o7
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
141
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:24:29 -
[665] - Quote
I have no problems with getting rid of off grid boosts, but unless you're in a super alliance anyone with a rorq is going to be selling after this patch. The defensive mode on this is undesirable at best if you're in a medium to small alliance.
My thoughts on the biggest problems with the current was the rorq is.
If you're ganked you have no escape option, your only choice here is to be rescued. You are vulnerable for 5 minute periods of time and given how big this ship is it makes it VERY easy to combat scan down. This ship can be held down with a single point.
possible solutions each is its own option and not to be taken together as maybe to OP :P
Make it immune to Dscan like the combat recon ships (apply this to the Orca too) If they can not see it right away then that may give you a chance to power the core down and get away before they realise you are there.
Make it much harder to combat scan down.
Like the supers make it need more than just a point to pin the ship down (possibly by granting it warp core stab in built like the venture.
Also maybe give it a Capital MJD designed by ORE that takes say 3 scrams to shut it down. (only available for capital industrial ships)
My final option is to give it a Mega Burst tractor pulse. one time only (burns out)and pushes all ships and pods within a 30km range away to 100km.
All numbers can be changed ofc and are merely suggestions. Again i do not advocate all of these on the ship as would be mega OP :P
My personal choices would be adding warp core stabs and the MJD with the Dscan immunity. Thoughts? |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
12
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:28:31 -
[666] - Quote
Mark SilverStep wrote: Why all these changes? - leave it at it is for a couple of years - it's great ! Then nobody has to change his gameplay every time - and finaly get used to it and/or good in what he or she is doing - skiling for etc. without being just there - and WHAaa change again - start over.
EDIT: lol sth went wrong when posting >.>
thing is that these mechanics are in a place "couple of years" already
the warfare link system is for my knowledge AT LEAST 6 years old |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 17:34:54 -
[667] - Quote
Probably wont use the Orca as a in belt booster - so - How many ships need to be in a mining fleet before swapping out a Skiff for a Fleet booster becomes profitable? |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
606
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:44:09 -
[668] - Quote
Poking around with numbers a bit, an All V's Rorqual will have a range of 43.75km when not sieged. Using a T1 Core, that becomes 87.5km, while a T2 Core makes it 131.25km.
Would there be any consideration to increasing the Rorqual's Role Bonus from +50% range to +75% range? It would make the All V's range 51.2km when not sieged, 102.4km with a T1 Core, and 153.5km with a T2 Core.
When using a T2 core, it would put the max boost range to just a shade over what the minimum warp distance is, while being unsieged would make it a bit more viable in large belts to be able to use a Higgs and align to a safe. That will make it marginally less of a hassle to keep ships in range when they're spread out over belts.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Derth Ramir
Pod Liberation Authority
50
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:50:25 -
[669] - Quote
CCP do you have any comments about the drake navy Issue? It is currently the only battle-cruiser unable to use a warfare link without sacrificing a good portion of its DPS. A slight added damage hull bonus is all that would be needed to free up a high slot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/506byu/dear_ccp_drake_navy_is_excluded_from_link_changes/ Reddit thread showing player Support.
Fight The Blob.
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Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2016.08.30 17:57:58 -
[670] - Quote
The main problem that was seen by the community was the presence of off grid, cloaky T3 boosters.
Either remove the subsystem or put a limit to combat boosting to be on grid. Problem solved.
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and handcuffing Mining gameplay and decent on grid mechanics to this dead hooker. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6367
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:01:24 -
[671] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Poking around with numbers a bit, an All V's Rorqual will have a range of 43.75km when not sieged. Using a T1 Core, that becomes 87.5km, while a T2 Core makes it 131.25km.
Would there be any consideration to increasing the Rorqual's Role Bonus from +50% range to +75% range? It would make the All V's range 51.2km when not sieged, 102.4km with a T1 Core, and 153.5km with a T2 Core.
When using a T2 core, it would put the max boost range to just a shade over what the minimum warp distance is, while being unsieged would make it a bit more viable in large belts to be able to use a Higgs and align to a safe. That will make it marginally less of a hassle to keep ships in range when they're spread out over belts. Thanks for the math,
One would have hoped the range would have been at least as far as a Capital Tractor Beam |
Lonan O'Labhradha
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
11
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:03:05 -
[672] - Quote
Damocles Orindus wrote:The main problem that was seen by the community was the presence of off grid, cloaky T3 boosters.
Either remove the subsystem or put a limit to combat boosting to on grid. Problem solved.
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and handcuffing Mining gameplay and decent on grid mechanics to this dead hooker.
That's not the main problem. Booster content is garbage. Many people who like Command Ships are interested in the on-grid change. You don't need to couple the two problems and I think you've gotten a bit oversimplistic in suggesting everything has to be congruent content wise.
As I've said above, the Rorqual at present is not really a ship. It's basically just a manned tower module. CCP intends for it to be used as a ship. You're not going to escape that eventuality and you shouldn't be trying to. If you don't like it as a ship, might as well just ask for a mine-boosting structure which, I believe, they're working on anyway, so...
Rorqual will need a new role. As an on-grid booster, it could work provided it didn't have to siege--it would engage in content similar to ratting carriers today.
If siege is a requisite or intended form of activity then it needs a type of content suitable to sieging. Presently, the analog to siege content is ratting with Marauders in Deadspace Anomalies. Hidden Belts, in other words, is the new content type that sieged rorquals necessitates.
Don't think so small. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6367
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:08:21 -
[673] - Quote
X Mayce wrote:Please remove the industrial core from the game, or at least its "pinned down in space for 5 mins"
super defensive weapon all shiny and stuff, but that it is mandatory because this flippin slow giant has to wait out the timer is a joke.
Oh and that i manually have to press the boosts every 1-2 minutes? - seriously?
World of Warcraft Classic Paladin sends his greetings, please get a nice cloth dress for the rorqual *sarcasm* Please tell me you didn't just write that: activate module manually? Seriously?
OMFG. That would be grounds for me to self-destruct my Rorqual for basic insurance, or reprocess it. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4399
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:08:29 -
[674] - Quote
Fozzie,
I'm happy that links are getting wrecked, but I feel like the approach is very slightly off. I'm disappointed with the removal of the passive leadership skills - and make no mistake, you are removing them. Making the tier 1 leadership skills apply only to an active module is very much like making the RCU an active module and only making Engineering apply when it's activated. The tier 1 leadership skills - even with mindlinks - are fairly harmless, and I'd like to see them stick around. It would also give you the ability to create new skills for me to train if I still cared about links at all. As it stands, the arguments for reimbursement are actually pretty valid (because the skills no longer affect the same areas of the game).
I would also like to point out that armor/shield and maybe even info links are probably going to be fine. However, skirmish links are going to take a massive whack to the face. So much of their utility is based on tackle and movement that short range AOE is simply unworkable. What do you say to some long range targeted variants for links? Eh? Eh!
That said, I haven't used my link alts much and with this change I don't even have a pretense for keeping them active. I'll be shuffling my market alts around and closing them. Thanks for saving me $30/month! <3 <3
-Liang
Ed: Formatting failures. My keyboard sucks. Also, it wouldn't have been too much to ask for you to simply delete links altogether would it? Pretty please? :)
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems
173
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:14:16 -
[675] - Quote
Does the links auto repeat in such a way that the button doesn't need to be pressed every time? And if it doesn't auto repeat could you consider makeing the boost duration on mineing links greatly extended, so as not to overly inconvenience miners. Poor things, we already want them to risk more stuff in the belt the least we could do is to make sure that they don't have to check thier boosting alt more often than thier main.
I feel the base range could go up a bit to say 20km but it feels pretty nice being short. Command destroyers should have a bit more range.
As for getting the rorqual on site. The panic button will help some, but what you really need is to give more powerful Intel tools for industrialists. The map data outs them from across the game, descan outs them in system. Local also gives them up to passers by. If you want them to actually get out there you need to give them a way to hide from prying eyes. |
Lonan O'Labhradha
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
12
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:15:51 -
[676] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:Does the links auto repeat in such a way that the button doesn't need to be pressed every time? And if it doesn't auto repeat could you consider makeing the boost duration on mineing links greatly extended, so as not to overly inconvenience miners. Poor things, we already want them to risk more stuff in the belt the least we could do is to make sure that they don't have to check thier boosting alt more often than thier main...
Yes, they have ammo like guns and auto-repeat until out of ammo then go through reload. If you haven't read the Dev Blog, you should do so. That information is in there. |
Jalen Mynar
Kestrel Security Company
1
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:19:54 -
[677] - Quote
I dont get why indy boosts and combat boosts are being treated the same. A rorq gives its fleet members no combat advantage, aside from passive boosts. A combat booster gives his/her fleet a massive advantage.
I get ccp wants to lose off grid, but why treat them alike?
for the rorq, why not lose the indy core, have it apply full boosts with no 5 min lock down, but to all fleet members on grid. Having a rorq slowboating around a colossal belt, trying to keep everyone in range would just be downright frustrating.
There would be a level of risk, whether its a booster only or using mining fighters, as there is for those that rat in carriers. Its not like risking a handful of mining ships, its a fairly pricey ship to mere mortals like me.
As others have said, the 5 minute invul thing would just delay the inevitable.
I realise its early days for these nerfs, but why over complicate it. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6368
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:21:17 -
[678] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:Does the links auto repeat in such a way that the button doesn't need to be pressed every time? And if it doesn't auto repeat could you consider makeing the boost duration on mineing links greatly extended, so as not to overly inconvenience miners. Poor things, we already want them to risk more stuff in the belt the least we could do is to make sure that they don't have to check thier boosting alt more often than thier main.
I feel the base range could go up a bit to say 20km but it feels pretty nice being short. Command destroyers should have a bit more range.
As for getting the rorqual on site. The panic button will help some, but what you really need is to give more powerful Intel tools for industrialists. The map data outs them from across the game, descan outs them in system. Local also gives them up to passers by. If you want them to actually get out there you need to give them a way to hide from prying eyes. If I'm mining, hauling in cans, watching d-scan, intel channels, etc., I don't want to also have to remember to press a button for bacon repeatedly. Auto-cycle or bust.
Capital Tractor Beam I has a 200 km range, and the T2 is 240 km. Just saying.
"Oh look! There's an warp-able asteroid belt, and a Rorqual on d-scan. I wonder where the Rorqual is?"
"Oh look! There's an warp-able mining anomaly, and a Rorqual on d-scan. I wonder where the Rorqual is?"
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Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
116
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:24:08 -
[679] - Quote
Quote:Q: Why are the ranges so short? Shouldn't they cover an entire grid? A: We want to ensure that there is gameplay involved in piloting and positioning your burst ships, as well as counterplay in splitting up opposing fleets and separating them from their bonuses. We may adjust the ranges based on how playtesting goes, but ideally they should always be small enough that the ranges matter.
You are adjusting the range just for anchoring fleets. Please consider that smaller fleets piloting manually, interceptors going for tackle want boosts too. |
Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:28:27 -
[680] - Quote
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
That's not the main problem. Booster content is garbage. Many people who like Command Ships are interested in the on-grid change. You don't need to couple the two problems and I think you've gotten a bit oversimplistic in suggesting everything has to be congruent content wise.
As I've said above, the Rorqual at present is not really a ship. It's basically just a manned tower module. CCP intends for it to be used as a ship. You're not going to escape that eventuality and you shouldn't be trying to. If you don't like it as a ship, might as well just ask for a mine-boosting structure which, I believe, they're working on anyway, so...
Rorqual will need a new role. As an on-grid booster, it could work provided it didn't have to siege--it would engage in content similar to ratting carriers today.
If siege is a requisite or intended form of activity then it needs a type of content suitable to sieging. Presently, the analog to siege content is ratting with Marauders in Deadspace Anomalies. Hidden Belts, in other words, is a new content type that sieged rorquals points towards.
Don't think so small.
Absolutely it's the main problem. Suggesting we got here for any other reason than off-grid combat boosting neglects the bulk of the complaint over the past years being aimed at that single point.
Replacing the Rorqual booster with the Rorqual 5 minute loot pinata in a belt is not a valid option. It's stupid and anyone who doesn't fly one and thinks it's great is being a CCP fanboy apologist. As far as the structures, they're not here yet so it's not a replacement and thus a poor argument for going ahead with these ill thought out changes.
Rorquals do need new roles, but in addition to their current ones to encourage them to come out of their POS. Telling Rorq pilots they have to siege in the belts is the work of small gang trolls looking for shinier kill mails and it's disengenous.
The "olive branch" of the panic button is the work of people who don't mine and saying it gives the group time to form up and save a mining fleet completely overlooks the general disinterest, let alone ability for groups in null to form up in less than a couple minutes and fly across their region to save said screwed group.
It's not a solution.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
673
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:30:42 -
[681] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:On a nearly unrelated tangent:
Since we're going to remove skills that just let you have more numbers of people in a fleet, perhaps we could do a similar thing with other skills? Corp Management (number of members) for instance? Maybe even the Trade (buy/sell order limits) or contracting skills too?
They seem like such silly and arbitrary limits.
From personal experience: trading skills do matter. They don't at first, until you start importing goods in bulk from a tradehub to your local friendly nullsec station.
That's when you know what that skill is for ;-) |
Lonan O'Labhradha
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
12
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:31:09 -
[682] - Quote
Damocles Orindus wrote:... It's not a solution.
vOv Bitter vet is bitter and always right, of course. |
KhanidLady
White Knight Social Club Play Hard Pray Harder
21
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:38:16 -
[683] - Quote
Jalen Mynar wrote:I dont get why indy boosts and combat boosts are being treated the same. A rorq gives its fleet members no combat advantage, aside from passive boosts. A combat booster gives his/her fleet a massive advantage.
I get ccp wants to lose off grid, but why treat them alike?
for the rorq, why not lose the indy core, have it apply full boosts with no 5 min lock down, but to all fleet members on grid. Having a rorq slowboating around a colossal belt, trying to keep everyone in range would just be downright frustrating.
There would be a level of risk, whether its a booster only or using mining fighters, as there is for those that rat in carriers. Its not like risking a handful of mining ships, its a fairly pricey ship to mere mortals like me.
As others have said, the 5 minute invul thing would just delay the inevitable.
I realise its early days for these nerfs, but why over complicate it.
your rorqual has bonuses to shield links. personally i would stick some on it |
Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:39:10 -
[684] - Quote
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
vOv Bitter vet is bitter and always right, of course.
I know, it's almost like people with experience in a subset of game play in EVE would know more about how changes to the mechanics would affect said subset than some useless troll. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2930
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:44:23 -
[685] - Quote
I like that Rorquals are going on grid. I bet 90% of miners have never used the fighter mechanics and I hope they are pleasantly surprised. This could be a good first step toward making mining more engaging.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
164
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:46:54 -
[686] - Quote
My very concise thoughts on this controversial topic. Not well thought out!
Quote:Fleet boosting should represent a distinct and valuable support role that allows skilled players to shine
It still does! That is, it represents a value to those who know how to make the best use of it. To those who have not invested time and money to skill a character at a level that gives you a tactical and strategic advantage it is "unfair". It is distinct in that the character has a very important role as a force multiplier that " I use in a manner that benefits me". Not others! I have not invested the time and money in characters to be "fair and equitable" for others. In your rush to 'Socially Engineer" the sandbox and create "fairness and equitable outcomes", you have stepped on those who have created and maintained the very foundation that keeps Eve going. No CCP, you are not the foundation, you are just the geeks who write code. We are the ones who make it real.
About the stats... You gave us a patchwork of stats, new mechanics, etc. You also gave a blog schedule that will cover details. Really! One cannot begin to give you an honest and informed opinion when given bits and pieces of information that can only congeal into a quivering mass of opinionated crap.
Regardless of the outcomes that will undoubtedly be forced upon the players, we will adapt. CCP, your time to let "discretion be the better part of valor" has arrived. Choose wisely!
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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Jalen Mynar
Kestrel Security Company
2
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:48:26 -
[687] - Quote
KhanidLady wrote:Jalen Mynar wrote:I dont get why indy boosts and combat boosts are being treated the same. A rorq gives its fleet members no combat advantage, aside from passive boosts. A combat booster gives his/her fleet a massive advantage.
I get ccp wants to lose off grid, but why treat them alike?
for the rorq, why not lose the indy core, have it apply full boosts with no 5 min lock down, but to all fleet members on grid. Having a rorq slowboating around a colossal belt, trying to keep everyone in range would just be downright frustrating.
There would be a level of risk, whether its a booster only or using mining fighters, as there is for those that rat in carriers. Its not like risking a handful of mining ships, its a fairly pricey ship to mere mortals like me.
As others have said, the 5 minute invul thing would just delay the inevitable.
I realise its early days for these nerfs, but why over complicate it. your rorqual has bonuses to shield links. personally i would stick some on it
yes, but whats the point of a mining boost ship with combat links? |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE Another Really Stupid Enterprise
4
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:49:37 -
[688] - Quote
Thank you CCP for finally fixing broken off grid boosts. Especially fixing the even more broken mining boosts where people are able to stay safe inside a POS field. This was always violating Risk/Reward philosophy of Eve Online.... getting +xx% reward at a cost of _zero_ risk. Similar to the off grid combat boosts had not enough risk for the reward... (but at least it wasn't objectively 0.0 risk)
It's always fun to see (mostly industry) people whining when something totally broken in their favor gets balanced. Why can't you be at least honest and say: yes, it was broken in our favor and we're sad that it is gone soon but we're glad we could (ab)use it for several years now. My observation is that PVPers generally admit if something is broken in their favor (T3 cruisers/destroyers - don't know about new cap/fax changes) and wont rage as much if it finally gets balanced but just adapt after a short time. But maybe I'm biased there and they whine the same... Feel free convince me otherwise (with sources).
Also as mentioned above, you'll get another industry boosting ship. So you tell me it's unfair you have to risk a capital in a belt for the boosts? I've a proposal for you: don't f**ing commit a capital for its gain if you cannot defend it.... or be ok with the risk you're taking.
@incursions: so you're participating in another totally broken risk/reward (hisec incursions) mechanic of Eve Online and are still whining about changes slightly affecting-¦ you?
TL;DR: * risk free mining boosts always violated Risk/Reward philosophy of Eve Online - Hurray for being it fixed * off grid boosts also had not enough risk for its reward * please fix broken risk/reward (hi sec) incursions next
-¦ damn it, can any native speaker please tell me if 'affecting' is correct here? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1882
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:50:37 -
[689] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Please tell me you didn't just write that: activate module manually? Seriously?
OMFG. That would be grounds for me to self-destruct my Rorqual for basic insurance, or reprocess it.
That appears to be the likely result of a 'reactivation delay' rather than a 'cycle time'. Think of the MJD or Cloaks - they're the only modules I can think of right now with a 'reactivation delay'. They don't auto-cycle. |
KhanidLady
White Knight Social Club Play Hard Pray Harder
21
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:52:50 -
[690] - Quote
Jalen Mynar wrote:yes, but whats the point of a mining boost ship with combat links?
Most mining ships are shield tanked, with the exception of some bait hull tanked ones. The rorqual is shield tanked too. so if you want to have a self sustained group, which doesnt need yet another person on grid for shield links. I would stick the shield links on the rorqual and have it boost the defensive of the fleet.
couple that with a few of those mining ships which actually have drone dmg bonuses. that might work quite well to get rid of initial tackle.
Fozzie mentioned last fanfest the story of a miner who wiped a blackops fleet with his drones. ymmv.
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