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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17934
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:34:36 -
[751] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire.
Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:37:20 -
[752] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire. Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
No, best option is to make wild ass claims about what people will do based on the most outlandish assumptions...then proclaim the game is dying, then post a hurf-blurf post about quitting because....well....because. Dammit!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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BarnacleBOY007
13. Enigma Project
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:37:24 -
[753] - Quote
Hi! So this is the first time I've posted on the forums...and I just resubbed both of my accounts.
To start off, I love this idea. I could count on my one hand the amount of RL friends that were willing to play EVE, the rest didn't even give it a chance because you had to Sub...this new F2P would allow them (many others to come to the game).
My concerns are (and I'm not sure if they have been mentioned or addressed yet): 1- How would the in game market be affected by this change? Has the actual effect been calculated? 2- Since the pricing of subbing an account is not going to change, does that mean the current price to PLEX an account will also be unchanged? 3- (This has been mentioned) Multiple Alpha accounts, or multiple accounts in general. I currently Multibox 2 accounts. Would the rules of this have to change with the new Clone States coming out?
Other than that, CCP you guys are doing a great job...keep it up. I'm really glad to be back in the game. I look forward to more information with regards to these changes in the near future :) |
Ares Splinter
Bank Of Zion The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:38:00 -
[754] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.
I would like to hear what you intend to trade skill to different factions? I have max skills in trade and do not think it's okay if I have to retrine my my skills again after I get a lot of wasted time on my skill as a trainer now .. I will not think is ok ..
is this a problem for us who have maxet out tradeskills?
Ares Splinter |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:47:15 -
[755] - Quote
Kitosa Hinoyosha wrote:Ok now eve jumps on the downwards spiral that all games go through on their way out the door...free to play...get ready for eve to be sold to a 3rd person company and CS to go in the toilet...but no seriously wtf ccp...this isnt going to bring in more players because its free...gankers and greifers are still a problem...and now you make it to where they can be even more anonymous...thanks for making it easier for them...and while your at it why not just let CODE run your entire Customer service department and you guys just retire...how about you actually fix whats wrong with new eden instead of giving up on us and hoping the word *free* will save us...it wont...a sad day in new eden history when that goes live... Agree 100%.
That's exactly the point and topic that CCP doesn't want to address which ISD / CCL has been locking and deleting for years now.
To pen a quote from Stan Lee - "Nuff said".
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Josef Djugashvilis
3451
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:48:40 -
[756] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire. Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
As a commercial company CCP have the right and indeed must do whatever it considers best to survive.
Eve is a past-time for me but it is the means by which company employees make a living for themselves and their families.
I accept that CCP are doing this to survive as a company but it is a future I choose not to be a part of.
When my sub expires in the middle of next year I shall have been a subscriber for a little over ten years, it seems as good a time as any to retire.
Malcanis, f2p is the harm.
This is not a signature.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
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Posted - 2016.09.01 06:56:46 -
[757] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.
As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result. Ill nutshell it for you... The good: 1) Allows current subs more flexibility with alts 2) Allows new players to experience eve without time constraints. 3) Provides subs with more targets. The bad: 1) Subs keep out a certain type of player many here will find undesirable. While people say well you can just avoid them, ignore them, etc... its like avoiding the white elephant in the room... lots of white elephants. At some point, it becomes easier to just stop playing. 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods. 3) I see alliances capitalizing on the free players and creating huge TIDI blobs of cheap fleets to take and hold space. 4) Free players really dont add a lot of value to the game but will suck up a massive amount of resources. 5) Welcome to The Market Chaos Era. This is going to have all kinds of weird effects on the market from a variety of angles. 6) No game that i have played that has started either A) in game advertising( despite you paying for it) or B) a free to play mode has done well after that point. At that point you are on a slippery slope and about to lose your footing. 7) Hi! im Roenok and i have 782 Alt Alpha Clone accounts! 8) You, CCP, claims that support will not be affected. But we know thats not true. There are only two paths support can take with this and both of them hurt sub players. The first is that we have to wait stupidly long for our tickets to make it through a constantly backlogged system because of all the Alpha scrubs filing support tickets for stupid stuff. The Second is that CCP hires more support staff. Guess who is paying for that support staff? Sub players. So we either get shittier service or we provide welfare support for free players. 9) Keeping in line with point #8, taking revenue to spend on more support staff for free players also takes money from CCP staff to develop the game. 10) F2P players are going to crowd sub players out of high sec. They are going to suck up most of the resources in high sec while contributing very little to game play. High sec subs are going to get tired of this and do one of two things. One, they are going to move to low sec or null... which is great. Or they are going to unsub and go play something else where they dont have pay to compete with thousands of free players. 11) We are going to have the same tolerance of free players as we do bots, afk miners/ratters, and other undesirables. We are going to try to kill them to make them go away until they become to frustrating to deal with and then we are going to go away. 12) Honestly we would rather you spend more time on making eve awesome and less time on generating revenue. We have bugs that havent been fixed for months. You guys are fixing things that arent broken ( module tieracide) while neglecting things that we hate ( Fozziesov, SBU sov, Pos bash Sov). We ask for the game to have more entertaining PVE and your answer to that is super rats that will WTFOWN you faster than a cap hot drop. Your answer to everything the last few years is to either nerf it or dumb it down. The only good thing ive seen in updates these last couple of years are ship rebalancing and possibly new structures but im still reserving judgement on those. Before you start trying to get new subs, try to keep the ones you got. You want an answer to the trial BS... here it is: 1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more. Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option. Ive been playing MMOs for 20 years. My first was a text based browser game on dial up. Ive player MMOs from EA, Blizzard, Atari, Trion Worlds, Big Point, Aeria, Kabam, Rockyou, Plarium, Machine Zone, and a host of other developers i cant remember atm, some of which have been defunct for years. And i can tell you from experience... going down this road is never good for the developer nor the paying customer. But dont take my word for it.... ill quote this post and " i told you so" in a couple of years. Agree 100%.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
37
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:08:09 -
[758] - Quote
You know, for a game whos community almost prides itself on the good old HTFU mentality... most people who are responding negatively to this are just whining that the game might change.
God forbid some of them might consider adapting to the change or even thinking about how they can profit from it, oh no, they are all like "i liked it the way it was before, and even though the changes arent in for another 2 months im gonna cry about it on the forums".
Honestly guys, get your **** together and wait for the feature to come out. This thread is best used to explain what you want to be changed about the current ideas CCP have proposed, and if you are constructive, they will look at your feedback and implement the necessary changes.
So get off the waaahmbulance and HTFU. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56279
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:17:33 -
[759] - Quote
IcewaterKat wrote:So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.
Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.
There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.
The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.
__TL;DR__
I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.
I'm disappointed.
Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.
Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online. Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Lhiara Longrifle
Les Mineurs Galactiques
2
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:19:27 -
[760] - Quote
hi there
i don't know if this as been anwser already but will adk anyway.
I read the page on clone state ... but did not see this question My step brother was a very old player ( subcribed 1 month after the game came out ) and had to stop playing due to lack of time playing and has about 300 M Sp to his character.
1) will he lose is SP because he no longer subscribe? 2) when a player unsbcribe but have a long list on his train queue ( 360 day Worth of skill to train) does the training stop ( pre clone state patch) 2a) after clone state patch will the training stop because he have omega state skill? 3) if he would to resubscribe will he be exactly the same as he left it ( isk, ship, implant) ?
pending on answer i may have more later on
later |
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Luscius Uta
Hek Squad What Squad
226
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:20:11 -
[761] - Quote
I used these forums previously to rant how a subscription-based model should be a thing of the past. These changes are good and I predict they will increase numbers of average logged in users significantly, although they will probably also raise PLEX prices since not everyone will need to have omega clone on all of their alts. Still, few things left me confused.
Why all races get Weapon disruption 3? I would rather want CPU and Power Grid Management 5 on an alpha clone since they are crucial fitting skills.
CCP Seagull said that alpha clones train skills at "slightly slower rate", yet one of the images in the blog shows 29 days of traning for Hull Upgrades V. That is not slightly slower but drastically slower. Having somewhere between 50% and 75% of the normal traning speed would be much more appropriate.
I noticed the lack of PI skills on alpha clones, does this means that all my colonies will stop producing resources once my clone goes into alpha state? If not, will I be able to use planetary launches and customs offices?
Similarly, will I be able to update my market orders if I have more market orders than allowed on an alpha clone? If yes, alpha clones might be popular for station traders who rarely undock and have little need to train new skills.
Personally, I would prefer more if alpha clones had no restriction on ships they can board and modules they can use, but could not train skills, could not place or update non-immediate market orders, could not start any industry jobs and planetary processes, basically nerfing most ways of passive income. Also putting a limit on how many alpha clones you can have logged in simultaneously might be in order. Nevertheless, this is still million times better than the current model where I couldn't log in the game at all or even post on this forum if my subscription ran out.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:21:57 -
[762] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:IcewaterKat wrote:So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.
Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.
There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.
The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.
__TL;DR__
I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.
I'm disappointed.
Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.
Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online. Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub. DMC
Has the price of a sub gone up? No. Has there been inflation? Yes? So the real cost of a subscription has gone down. An inflation adjusted subscription price is $19.55, stop whining like a bunch of pussies.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:24:47 -
[763] - Quote
I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. |
Servant Lord's
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:27:46 -
[764] - Quote
After reviewing the dev blog 3 times I think this isn't so bad like people make it out as. In worst case CCP could always remove this change and go back to the old model? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:30:29 -
[765] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information.
No.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:32:52 -
[766] - Quote
Servant Lord's wrote:After reviewing the dev blog 3 times I think this isn't so bad like people make it out as. In worst case CCP could always remove this change and go back to the old model?
Correct, notice that all the doom and gloomers are using examples that are very extreme (100 alt accounts to try and cash in on SP trading, 20 accounts of T1 logi, etc.). Basically, they have nothing serious so they are going for the bullshit and lots of it hoping something will stick. They might find something, but so far I don't see it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
186
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:36:22 -
[767] - Quote
I'm under the impression, that many people haven't read the list of skills. Even the max Level of the skills is limited so the impact will be low.
There are 2 aspects that may be bad: 1. using alpha fleet in Null/low. Well this is up to us PLAYERS!!! unable to handle the freedom CCP gives us which is a lot more then in every other game on the market. 2. Mining with alphas: Same as above
The problem are not the new players but the greed and absolute will to win no matter how damaging to the game by vet players. It is up to US!!!! players to think twice if we will stretch the borders till CCP nerfs us or if we will restrict ourself. The problem is with the Omega players using meta and ingame in any way possible to get the upper hand. Mostly we show the inability to use our freedom wisely so CCP has to step in rather then limiting ourself.
I like the idea, it might get a lot of new players into Eve. In the end it's just an expansion of the 21 day free trial. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:38:11 -
[768] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:You know, for a game whos community almost prides itself on the good old HTFU mentality... most people who are responding negatively to this are just whining that the game might change.
God forbid some of them might consider adapting to the change or even thinking about how they can profit from it, oh no, they are all like "i liked it the way it was before, and even though the changes arent in for another 2 months im gonna cry about it on the forums".
Honestly guys, get your **** together and wait for the feature to come out. This thread is best used to explain what you want to be changed about the current ideas CCP have proposed, and if you are constructive, they will look at your feedback and implement the necessary changes.
So get off the waaahmbulance and HTFU. - Hey, we made a huge pile of crap for ya! Do you like it?
- No.
- Oh, you're not constructive! Come and taste it!
- No. F@#k you.
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nVus Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:39:33 -
[769] - Quote
All they had to do was reduce the sub amount to like half of what it is today, and introduce multiple character simultaneously training on the same account at a scalable level on top of a standard sub.
So say you have a standard sub at about 8 bucks, adding another training queue to that sub cost another say 6 bucks more giving them a sub of 14 bucks and so on so on.
For example: Let's say that 1st account character training subscription gets its costs reduced to 8 bucks, adding additional character skill training to the existing subscription costs 6 more bucks. Bringing the total subscription fee too 14 bucks for 2x per client, it's still below it's current price and that of single PLEX price but also leaving room for one more character training. Adding another 6 bucks giving them a commitment of 20 bucks per client, and scale it by the length of the commitment plan 1 month 3x month 6x month and year, compounding discounts.
By expanding the choice of payment and giving that choice greater value. I feel would add much more value to the current payment and boost sales.
Keeping the above suggested idea of scale and value and bring it across the board of price per longer commitment like 3 month 6 month and yearly pricing and you've got an EVE everyone would be happy with.n++
PLEX features/pricing stay the same and still work well as it is for the casual and situational clients.
The price I just use as an example it could be any figure, my point is it's scales well. n++ |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:41:55 -
[770] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:I like the idea, it might get a lot of new players into Eve. That's why you're a miner.
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BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
38
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:43:15 -
[771] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote: - Hey, we made a huge pile of crap for ya! Do you like it?
- No.
- Oh, you're not constructive! Come and taste it!
- No. F@#k you.
https://media.giphy.com/media/4J7e5A0vQ7YwE/giphy.gif |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:45:12 -
[772] - Quote
Also claims of mineral prices crashing are highly over wrought as well. Sure it might happen, but considering that mineral prices and the economy were fine back when we had a peak of 50,000 players logged in, I doubt this is going to suddenly change. It might, but those predicting this have absolutely no evidence and are just resorting to absurd claims.
One of the key aspects of this is how many new players will there be as a result of this? 25,000 logged in? Great, we'll go back to where we were about 2-3 years ago. Will this mean economic catastrophe? Don't be so fecking absurd. Back in 2013 the average PCU was 48,000. The average PCU now? 20,000. So all the hystronics about T1 production, minerals and the like are just simply bullshit. Literally bullshit. Lies spewed by people who are ignorant and do not know what they are talking about.
With more players there will also be an increased demand for T1 modules and ships. Therefore, there will also be more demand for minerals. There will also likely be more ships destroyed meaning which is also good for ship, module and mineral demand.
Anyone who thinks more players in game is bad is a complete blinkered moron. The claims of catastrophe are also wildly exaggerated claims based on outlers and non-standard behavior as if it were the norm. Now, could this be bad? Sure it could. But I have yet to see a claim that is not based on histrionics and nonsense.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:45:28 -
[773] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:someshit.gif No.
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:46:58 -
[774] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No.
But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:48:46 -
[775] - Quote
So, ummm ... defensive FW Plexing alt army? What happened to consequences in highsec? Throwaway gank Thoraxes? Free Venture mining ops 24/7 everywhere?
I foresee problems here boys.
Question: Can these clones trade / jetisson stuff? |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:51:18 -
[776] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Anyone who thinks more players in game is bad is a complete blinkered moron. Oh, hello, Perfect World.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:51:23 -
[777] - Quote
Also....
Many of these concerns can be solved by simply limiting this F2P option or putting more limitatins on F2P. Put the Alpha clones to green or yellow for safety...fine (although I prefer yellow to give them some PvP options in HS). Limit the number of logins? Fine. Limit the number of logins with Omegas? Fine. Make sure they can't get in certain faction ships via loopholes, fine. These are details, IMO and nothing game breaking.
People who want to "stop this" need to come up with a game breaking problem. And a problem based on $3,000 initial outlay is not reasonable. Sure it might happen, and some players with stupid is ISK could do something weird like having 100 accounts to generate a pathetic amount of ISK after 12 months...whatever.
Come up with something truly game breaking that isn't breath-takingly stupid right out of the box. That is what would be helpful.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:52:11 -
[778] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No. But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates?
Sure, that appears to be an option.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:52:40 -
[779] - Quote
Just gave you one: FW DPlexing. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
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Posted - 2016.09.01 07:55:17 -
[780] - Quote
Oh, and another one: free throwaway thrashers instapopping small frigs and capsules. Where is the problem you ask? NO CONSEQUENCE. Biomass and be at it again in 3 hours tops. |
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