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Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2016.09.04 18:09:21 -
[151] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:All things considered, I'm relatively less concerned about returning players worrying about pay to win. With them I'm concerned that they won't be able to evac null sec where they live or undock their mission BS to make more money, and the conversion bid will be unsuccessful. It's the new players that really concern me - people who have an established understanding of the term free to play. People who are going to realize that it doesn't matter how well they train or how well the fly or how many years they've played when their clone is so limited that they fundamentally cannot ever be competitive. The game won't be pay to play from that perspective. It's pay to win.
Or just pay to play better. Pay to play the whole game instead of just part of it.
No win is guaranteed.
Warlord Balrog wrote:MCT ---Can you MCT toon #2, while #1 stays alpha state? Meh...weird.
Invitations --- Allowed in alpha state?
I would think you'd need to have a sub or have used a PLEX to activate MCT on a 2nd toon on the same acct. An alpha acct = all 3 toons are alpha. An omega acct = all 3 toons are omega (and only 1 trains at a time unless MCT is active).
Not sure what you mean by invitations...? Invitations to a duel? To a fleet? To a channel? to a Private Message/Chat? |
Warlord Balrog
303rd X-SOLDIER
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 18:23:39 -
[152] - Quote
Sylvia Kildare wrote: Not sure what you mean by invitations...? Invitations to a duel? To a fleet? To a channel? to a Private Message/Chat?
Recruit a Friend |
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
116
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 18:40:50 -
[153] - Quote
Warlord Balrog wrote:Alpha state + Omega state --- Way back when, you couldn't login a trial and paid account at the same time, this should be true of clone states. IMHO, free station trade comes to mind as far as abuse.
Trade hub spam --- I hate filters and restrictions as much as the next gamer, but if alphas roam free we're looking at a disaster. Also, too many alphas 'blockading' login queues, preventing jumps into trade hubs, and even bottlenecking un-reinforced nodes [no DDoS plz] are a few things I would like to bring up before I make peace with this feature.
Character Bazaar --- Should it be allowed for an alpha? If I cannot afford to sub all of my accounts, should I be given a chance to sell one I'm barely using while being an alpha to support the others?
MCT ---Can you MCT toon #2, while #1 stays alpha state? Meh...weird.
Marketing --- An alpha as a trade alt could be trouble. Especially if they haven't invested in the game like Omegas; veteran or not. Perhaps limit number of items/contracts posted. For example 3 contracts at a time, 1 billion ISK per week or 1000 items (IE: 50 ships + 450 fuel blocks + 500 guns) for trade at once to prevent alphas to substantial incomes to support paid 'master' accounts. It will help shift them to other aspects of the game as well, such as missions, mining, PvE and PvP--as they cannot finance from idle gameplay. Another option could be gifting/overpricing restrictions to prevent the same abuse; aka hard limit per month transfered and no buying that 1 trit for 5 billion ISK. (I quit eve! 1 billion isk for 1 trit -- ha ha ha)
Invitations --- Allowed in alpha state?
Special gifts --- Reduced set of gifts for F2P consumers. Not only to avoid multiple freebie accounts, but to not cheapen paid customers' precious "thank yous"
Passive time-based fun --- R&D, PI, blueprint goodies, *new* industrial buildings that will replace moon mining. Maybe pause blueprint research...?
Anchoring --- Madness! Should it be blocked entirely? I say nay, but without having a substantial investment, limit number of anchored objects...please?
Balance --- Alpha is a terrific idea, perhaps a structured invitation reward system where they can gain extra ...say... ISK or LP (Think ESS-based system) as they progress through EVE's rich storyline. Promotions through ranks, rewards, and graduation being a free month of Omega state to see what they could be interested in! This will slightly mimic the style of system you have with The Scope's campaign and SoE's guilty pleasure. - Unique Alpha achievement system could be such: # Earn 2500 unused SP per new alpha that plays for a month (Towards Omega skills later in your EVE career) # Stay active with a corp sponser for at least a month and choose a 5 run cruiser, 20 run weapon, and 100 run ammo BPC set * Sponsers are a list of noob friendly teaching corps with tied interests for the capsuleer, such as: EVE-Uni, RvB, EVE Scouts and Pandemic Horde to name a few. # Train all skills to cap and receive a racial skin pack (automatically activated) or unique for new alpha state pilot graduates; 'the proud pod' skin...is that engraved with 'I Survived my first months of EVE'?
Alphas enthuasism ---Most alphas will be new or "How do EVE again?" players, where's their cookie? Something to say thank you for returning/trying the best MMO, but unique for alphas. 10% off first month sub? Nah. Some free skillbooks? Boooorrriiinnggg. I'm out of ideas, but I feel this should be addressed, even if declined.
And as for the 'sending in the alpha clones' problem, I have a few ideas: #1 - Temporary google authenticator key token restriction ---Your first month you cannot login without the token -- This will prevent me say, making 10 alphas to ......alpha the competition in FW. I realize this will hurt massive lemmings to jump into EVE, but it as far as I know, you cannot register for massive 'source keys'. On a side note, this may also bring more people into the game after learning about security for their new account. #2 - EVE App! Seriously, who doesn't have a cellphone or a friend with one? The app releases a key for an alpha clone, for you or a friend. Limit three or something per IEMI. #3 - Financial tie --- This one makes me cringe, however, by linking a card to an account it will definately help prevent one person from owning 'too many' accounts. #4 - Social media --- Not exactly sure how to limit this, as I know some people with many...MANY facebook accounts, perhaps someone smarter than I can think of something :) I'll just be the conduit to spark an idea.
+ 2 cents worth in words; -5 cents for editing while exhausted With those restrictions CCP is for sure not going to get a large new player base.
EVE is not a game for the massively online fearful, be calm.
As far as login jams that is a problem CCP would like to have, a large bustling growing player base. Let's give the new blood a chance, give them an unlimited time taste of EVE with reasonable minimal limitations so they can want to pay for the rest to grow their game play.
With the way prices have gone up some older accounts may come back as Alpha sell some stuff they have in hangars and plex back to Omega at least temporarily. Do you think that is a bad thing also?
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Shaddn Arakh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.09.04 18:47:42 -
[154] - Quote
Invite system for alpha clones
Aim: avoid creating thousands of throwaway alphas and scale the f2p aspect via the positive feedback loop.
Make Alphas invite-only, gift the invites to them for completing some objectives (Opportunities or in-game time spent) so that the more involved Alphas can invite buddies. Build on top of existing buddy system so that they can gain rewards. This will prevent flooding Eve with junk "trial-alphas" in November and December and attract more engaged players. |
Keno Skir
824
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 18:49:18 -
[155] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that.
No mate, idiots talk about alcohol and other narcotics as if they are somehow different.
I'm kinda looking forward to the clusterf*ck that's coming. That follow up release basically said "We've heard the two things you guys really care about, and we'd like to be extremely evasive and talk around the subjects a bit without really saying anything. You're all welcome."
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Dread Red
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 19:02:52 -
[156] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that. No mate, idiots talk about alcohol and other narcotics as if they are somehow different. I'm kinda looking forward to the clusterf*ck that's coming. That follow up release basically said "We've heard the two things you guys really care about, and we'd like to be extremely evasive and talk around the subjects a bit without really saying anything. You're all welcome." Add to that to answer the concerns about Alphas ganking miners the follow up links to an article on reddit written by a "goon" talking about the need for more then 70 T1 dessies to take down a freighter thus we have nothing to worry about. CCP is still catering to the goons and the suicide gankers no matter what the facts say or concerns brought forth by members.
I look forward to the Alphas coming, perhaps it will finally wake up the industrialists to the fact CCP just wants us as targets, even targets for free accounts while we pay.
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Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
116
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 19:15:25 -
[157] - Quote
Will Alpha accounts get the Holiday gifts CCP distributes?
The good will from that would go a long way with new players and remind returners of the stuff that comes along with participation.
If we are positive this has a chance to be successful. We will need to keep CCP honest and tell them about exploits and abuses in a rapid fashion.
If we all pay attention and for once CCP listens this could be a really big win for their business and our pleasure. |
The Leopardess
Viziam Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 21:24:34 -
[158] - Quote
High sec is already pretty unsafe for null people with the stupid merc wars I don't know anyone who would want to stay in highsec and torture themselves like that. Any corp over 10 members gets annihilated. |
Circumstantial Evidence
356
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 00:01:35 -
[159] - Quote
I think these comments fit this latest in a line of big changes to how EVE is played (thinking of skill trading,) and as a response to doom-sayers on most any topic. Ars Technica // Petr Opaskar wrote:GÇ£ No one ever gets the future right,GÇ¥ cosmologist Lawrence Krauss tells Herzog. We never got our flying cars and MoonbasesGÇöwe got the World Wide Web instead. The future is daunting because itGÇÖs something we havenGÇÖt thought of yet. ItGÇÖs not going to be a utopian interplanetary society of jetpacks, but itGÇÖs not going to be The Hunger Games either. Even someone who says GÇ£weGÇÖre all going to hell in a handbasket!GÇ¥ is trying to put the future into a tidy little box. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2340
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 05:46:40 -
[160] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that. No mate, idiots talk about alcohol and other narcotics as if they are somehow different. I'm kinda looking forward to the clusterf*ck that's coming. That follow up release basically said "We've heard the two things you guys really care about, and we'd like to be extremely evasive and talk around the subjects a bit without really saying anything. You're all welcome."
You are rather off topic mate and here is the reply I gave to yet another low life who replied with the same sort of thing in a Star Citizen organisation, you smoke pot or take a drug to get high, there are people who drink to get drunk, that is the same as what you just said, people like me drink a glass of wine to compliment a fine meal, that you are a barbarian who has no idea of the finer things in life is your issue not mine. Yes they are different, if people have the wit to treat them differently...
That said your next paragraph actually made sense because the key issues that people raised were actually ignored in this follow up. Yes it will be a cluster feck, I will be logging on in November to chat to mates every so often, but that is all I will be doing, I will not be undocking.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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DeuceMan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 10:22:42 -
[161] - Quote
I feel the rights to have and use blueprints needs to remain with us "subscribers".
While I offer no complaints if one of my fellow subscribers "rolls into town" and offers a better price on goods, and takes a share of the profits, free to play folks should not be allowed to do the same. Some of us smaller corporations have invested time and money to obtain our list of blueprints for our industry efforts. This should be kept as a "privelidge" of subscribers, else some subscribers could feel "penalized".
Keeping ownership and use of blueprints to subscribers would provide the free players a logical consequence for not subscribing. Put simply, if they want to play a free character they will need to purchase their ships and equipment from a subscribing player (on the market). This would not greatly impede their "industrial careers" as they would still be free to station trade and buy and sell goods and transport said goods. They just would not be able to make them for themselves.
I think this might also help the free players more carefully consider what they are doing with their ships. They may think twice about "ganking a miner" if they know that their ability to procure replacement gear hinges on the player market (rather then their own ability to make their own gear).
Lastly, keeping blueprint ownership and use to subscribers may likely produce a new in game industry. Where free to play characters can "contract out to" subscribed players to manufacture needed goods. This will also likely change the dynamic of some corporations as joining free players may "depend" on the corporations subscribed players for gear. They furnish the mined materials, in return they get their requested gear.
I realise I'm just one man, and this is one man's opinion. I simply hope that my argument is logical.
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Keno Skir
833
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:46:18 -
[162] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that. No mate, idiots talk about alcohol and other narcotics as if they are somehow different. I'm kinda looking forward to the clusterf*ck that's coming. That follow up release basically said "We've heard the two things you guys really care about, and we'd like to be extremely evasive and talk around the subjects a bit without really saying anything. You're all welcome." You are rather off topic mate and here is the reply I gave to yet another low life who replied with the same sort of thing in a Star Citizen organisation, you smoke pot or take a drug to get high, there are people who drink to get drunk, that is the same as what you just said, people like me drink a glass of wine to compliment a fine meal, that you are a barbarian who has no idea of the finer things in life is your issue not mine. Yes they are different, if people have the wit to treat them differently... That said your next paragraph actually made sense because the key issues that people raised were actually ignored in this follow up. Yes it will be a cluster feck, I will be logging on in November to chat to mates every so often, but that is all I will be doing, I will not be undocking.
And what about the beer is that to compliment a fine kebab?
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
111
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:35:19 -
[163] - Quote
I am still not convinced this is what the game needs.
It feels like a complete screw over to loyal customers who paid their dues, you should really be focussing on those players rather than bastardising the system. You are making a lot of investment in this without really knowing it will work. Just what exactly are you trying to achieve with this? If you are trying to attract new players this is proven in many industries to be the wrong focus because of the cost. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2341
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 14:58:55 -
[164] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I drink a moderate amount of wine and beer, never touch drugs, only idiots do that. No mate, idiots talk about alcohol and other narcotics as if they are somehow different. I'm kinda looking forward to the clusterf*ck that's coming. That follow up release basically said "We've heard the two things you guys really care about, and we'd like to be extremely evasive and talk around the subjects a bit without really saying anything. You're all welcome." You are rather off topic mate and here is the reply I gave to yet another low life who replied with the same sort of thing in a Star Citizen organisation, you smoke pot or take a drug to get high, there are people who drink to get drunk, that is the same as what you just said, people like me drink a glass of wine to compliment a fine meal, that you are a barbarian who has no idea of the finer things in life is your issue not mine. Yes they are different, if people have the wit to treat them differently... That said your next paragraph actually made sense because the key issues that people raised were actually ignored in this follow up. Yes it will be a cluster feck, I will be logging on in November to chat to mates every so often, but that is all I will be doing, I will not be undocking. And what about the beer is that to compliment a fine kebab?
With hot chili sauce, of course...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Old Man Sam
Fishy Old Men in Space
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 20:48:20 -
[165] - Quote
I think I have created a solution for Alpha clone hoards mining in highsec, through a several step plan.
1.Remove the venture from Alpha clones. Now I know this sounds like blasphemy since mining is usually the first thing a new player does, but hear me out. Back when I started this game the logistics frigates had a mining bonus. If we give that bonus back, new players can mine at about 1/3rd the efficiency that a venture can (before logi frigate bonus), but with 1/10th the cargo hold thus requiring active mining, or jet cans. It also makes sense since Alpha's can only fly their race, and ore vessels are at best their own race, and and worst Gallente. (Which would be very unfair). Gives people a reason to upgrade to an Omega clone.
2.New highsec relic and data sites, called novice or some other cool name (doesnGÇÖt really matter). These sites will spawn only in highsec, and will be gated unlike other relic and data sites. The only ships that can enter are T1 frigates and below, perfect for new players. They should have the same or fractionally better loot tables than current highsec relic and data sites (which is trash anyway) but maybe have a few really rare drops that make it not worth for a veteran player to grind through in crappy T1 exploration frigates, but good enough for a new player to get lucky and get a bit of money.
3.Push new players into exploration instead of mining. Its more active, and generally more interesting than mining, and impossible to automate through botting.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
742
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 07:08:31 -
[166] - Quote
So Alpha scrubs won't even be able to use small T2 guns? That sounds totally useless then. I think they should be able to use T2 guns of small and possibly medium size. And I say that as someone who will probably never play as an Alpha. As long as I play this game, my accounts will always be paid with money as they have been the past ~7 years. But people with T1 guns can never be competitive in pvp, the one thing that will hook up most people for a serious career in EVE. A player with limited experience trying pvp in T1 fits will most likely fail, and then fail again, and then give up. Allowing small but decently fitted ships is much more likely to give them experiences of success, making them want to play more and also get the bigger and more advanced ships.
I don't think many more people will engage in suicide ganking than before, the limiting resource is time. I'm not interested in ganking and most other players also aren't. Making it easier for me does not make it more likely that I'll do it. Those who are into ganking are already doing it.
So I don't see a huge influx of new actual players who start ganking. But I guess there is the danger that the active gankers that are already out there will be able to do much more damage more easily. So you should limit the number of alpha accounts per actual player... to one. And disallow rapid account recycling. If someone is as dedicated to EVE that they want multiple accounts, they should pay or plex. Alpha gameplay should be for newbies, casuals and returning players who aren't sure yet. With the limitations, playing as an Alpha will not be a tolerable long-term situation for any serious player anyway.
The easiest way to limit accounts would be requiring credit card info. But that would leave some groups of players out in the cold: Minors and many people from third-world countries or in general poor or financially troubled people that don't have a credit card and, being poor, would be the likeliest users of Alpha gameplay. So it would be preferable to find another way players can reliably authenticate themselves.
.
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Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
54
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 12:47:15 -
[167] - Quote
Related Devblog wrote:Probably the clearest point to emerge so far has been a request to limit simultaneous log on for Alphas. The concern here is obviously justified as swarms of free alts could potentially have any number of negative effects on the game. That said, thereGÇÖs significant complexity here, especially on the technical side. We are exploring options to address this and also consulting our security and customer support team. If trial limitation works on 1-per-computer, why can't you include the Alpha account state in this restriction as well? Were are these technical difficulties located? I doubt this is an isssue with reworking the data to not rely on a boolean variable (subscription 0 / 1), because Alphas are by definition not subscribed. I'm still curious as to why it supposedly won't work and where the technical difficulties are behind it. I'm not saying you're incompetent, and neither do I say I have a better solution. This is me searching to understand the given circumstances.
The other big question here is; What prevents you from agreeing that more than one Alpha account running simultaneously is bad and you're working hard to get this limitation going? We have 1 trial on a computer ONLY for good reasons. Why are you not saying the same about Alphas? What made you think running more than one Alpha (or running one Alpha beside many Omegas) is a good idea? Because if you thought it was a bad idea, then you clearly would have said "1 Alpha only" flat out the door.
It's this beating around the bush that has me concerned more than anything else.
Limiting Alphas to 1 per computer only is alleviating almost every issue brought to concern. Why are you not giving us the feeling and assuredness to be making this THE end goal? Instead I read you're "exploring options" as if the prevention of simultaneous Alpha logins could not be established and thus needs to be scrapped. This is the feeling I'm getting. This is the feeling many others get. This causes all this ruckus. One simply confirmation of you will bring the sigh of relief we ask for.
With the 1-per-computer limitation, Alpha accounts become just as much an "issue" as Trial accounts are. And to the fearmongers; tell me where the masses of illegally multiboxing Trial account Gank and mining fleets are? Yeah I thought so. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1820
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 12:55:43 -
[168] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote: The other big question here is; What prevents you from agreeing that more than one Alpha account running simultaneously is bad and you're working hard to get this limitation going? We have 1 trial on a computer ONLY for good reasons. Why are you not saying the same about Alphas? What made you think running more than one Alpha (or running one Alpha beside many Omegas) is a good idea? Because if you thought it was a bad idea, then you clearly would have said "1 Alpha only" flat out the door.
Because it is too easy to avoid this restriction. There are many ways. :) |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
54
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 13:07:11 -
[169] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Because it is too easy to avoid this restriction. There are many ways. :) You missed the point. It's about if it is against the "rules" or not. Not making a rule based on "oh well the community will break it anyway" is laughably stupid, and if you base your entire argument on it, you're not putting yourself into the best of light either.
Saying there are ways doesn't mean these way are also always successful to work, since CCP has the legal right to scan our computer for hardware and software solutions which are circumventing these rules. If you think VMs and VPNs help you stay invisible and make the servers think you are all logging in from different locations, you're naive. The multi-input from ISboxer was banned for a reason too, and successfully so.
If those ways you talk about are so handy-dandy available, then why are we not seeing swarms of trial account with Ventures swirling through rocks and suicide Catalysts tickling down ships? Really, I think you're talking out your backside. Not every "what-if" is a notion worth contemplating to all it's extent. |
Warlord Balrog
303rd X-SOLDIER
4
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Posted - 2016.09.06 13:33:31 -
[170] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:If trial limitation works on 1-per-computer, why can't you include the Alpha account state in this restriction as well? Were are these technical difficulties located? I doubt this is an isssue with reworking the data to not rely on a boolean variable (subscription 0 / 1), because Alphas are by definition not subscribed. I'm still curious as to why it supposedly won't work and where the technical difficulties are behind it. I'm not saying you're incompetent, and neither do I say I have a better solution. This is me searching to understand the given circumstances.
The other big question here is; What prevents you from agreeing that more than one Alpha account running simultaneously is bad and you're working hard to get this limitation going? We have 1 trial on a computer ONLY for good reasons. Why are you not saying the same about Alphas? What made you think running more than one Alpha (or running one Alpha beside many Omegas) is a good idea? Because if you thought it was a bad idea, then you clearly would have said "1 Alpha only" flat out the door.
It's this beating around the bush that has me concerned more than anything else.
Limiting Alphas to 1 per computer only is alleviating almost every issue brought to concern. Why are you not giving us the feeling and assuredness to be making this THE end goal? Instead I read you're "exploring options" as if the prevention of simultaneous Alpha logins could not be established and thus needs to be scrapped. This is the feeling I'm getting. This is the feeling many others get. This causes all this ruckus. One simply confirmation of you will bring the sigh of relief we ask for.
With the 1-per-computer limitation, Alpha accounts become just as much an "issue" as Trial accounts are. And to the fearmongers; tell me where the masses of illegally multiboxing Trial account Gank and mining fleets are? Yeah I thought so.
Trial limitations can be circumvented a number of ways, none of which I will list. And by making alphas work like trials you will be preventing most of the player base that cannot afford subs occasionally the joy of the game. Will that make people pay? Doubtful. Will that make more people give up on the game? Probably. Will it improve the game? It'll will make abuse slightly more annoying, yes, but doubtful in many aspects.
Running alphas and omegas from the same user prevents the alphas from socializing. One could simply pay for one account (in a marauder for example) running level 4s with their alphas sitting in station safely gaining LP and ISK from the kills the marauder is doing. In the same token, alphas won't be able to run with major alliances. So your newbros won't be able to play with you, only other newbros... who will teach them? The person with a laptop googling "how to eve" every 5 minutes when a new 'event' occurs.
The only limitation alphas should have as far as any of these concerns is preventing someone from making 40 toons that are completely free and ruining someone who has less than five accounts' day. For example, a solo mission runner in a shiny ship getting alpha ganked out of his mission by FREE players. Another fine example is a small multiboxing group (Compact players as I like to call them) that are out mining could also have their day ruined. Many other examples should come to mind now, and this is detriment to EVE's existance if they are not addressed. |
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Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
54
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Posted - 2016.09.06 14:02:15 -
[171] - Quote
Warlord Balrog wrote:1) Trial limitations can be circumvented a number of ways, none of which I will list. And by making alphas work like trials you will be preventing most of the player base that cannot afford subs occasionally the joy of the game.
2) Running alphas and omegas from the same user prevents the alphas from socializing. One could simply pay for one account (in a marauder for example) running level 4s with their alphas sitting in station safely gaining LP and ISK from the kills the marauder is doing. In the same token, alphas won't be able to run with major alliances. So your newbros won't be able to play with you, only other newbros... who will teach them? The person with a laptop googling "how to eve" every 5 minutes when a new 'event' occurs.
3) The only limitation alphas should have as far as any of these concerns is preventing someone from making 40 toons that are completely free and ruining someone who has less than five accounts' day. 1) I never said they should replace Trials. CCP themselves said they'll be reworking Trials, so a Trial =/= Alpha. I only said Alphas should have the same login limitation which Trials have. To date someone yet has to point out to me a gross abuse of Trial accounts seen in the game which puts Eve to a detriment.
2) I'm not sure I understand what you say, because it looks like you're contradicting with your own point 1. Why shouldn't alphas be able to socialize when limited to 1 Alpha per computer? That would mean Trials cannot socialize either, and those are currently time limited, whereas Alphas are not. As to who will teach them... is this a serious question? It will just work the same as with Trial accounts. Trial account players still are taught by others how to play the game. Forgive me, what are you trying to say again? I'm really at a loss here.
3) Which is exactly why I said limit Alphas to 1 login per computer. And which contradicts with your very own point 1, because as you said yourself "can be circumvented in a number of ways". If you so firmly believe CCP is outwitted by laymen's tech left and right, why even bother? I still see it as a staggering hyperbole. Which is probably good, so it can rain more permabans later, including the subscribed accounts related to the machine where the abuse took place. |
Kilo Kodiak
Discoverings Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:00:04 -
[172] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Kilo Kodiak wrote:I have a simple question ///
P I?
Plante interaction as a alfa clone?
if you have like 5 million skill points in P I and it was showing to other player can mine why can not the do P I ? stop doing anything. read the dev blog. there is a list of skills that are available to alpha clones. thats what they can use. PI is not on that list.
why do you limit yourself????
why will you allow others to limit you more than you are now?
current the system allow trail account to P >I> which is mining.. should we cut that away?
ccp place the design and the codes... but we are EVE.. we should learn and tell them what we want and not.
EVE is us. |
Grodd2
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:38:06 -
[173] - Quote
As the condition in High sec is now, there is so much competition for resources that there is little good mining opportunities for a great portion of every day. If there is an influx of new players with mining goals, it will make the situation even worse. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3047
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 21:08:19 -
[174] - Quote
So long as multiple log ins are possible this is going to hurt
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
3047
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 21:09:57 -
[175] - Quote
Kilo Kodiak wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:Kilo Kodiak wrote:I have a simple question ///
P I?
Plante interaction as a alfa clone?
if you have like 5 million skill points in P I and it was showing to other player can mine why can not the do P I ? stop doing anything. read the dev blog. there is a list of skills that are available to alpha clones. thats what they can use. PI is not on that list. why do you limit yourself???? why will you allow others to limit you more than you are now? current the system allow trail account to P >I> which is mining.. should we cut that away? ccp place the design and the codes... but we are EVE.. we should learn and tell them what we want and not. EVE is us.
Because you can make a lot more with 100 free pi alts than 100 level 4 venture alts and with a lot less effort
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3561
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 22:17:54 -
[176] - Quote
Grodd2 wrote:As the condition in High sec is now, there is so much competition for resources that there is little good mining opportunities for a great portion of every day. If there is an influx of new players with mining goals, it will make the situation even worse. Like or dislike alpha clones this statement of yours is totally incorrect. Just go a couple of jumps away from Jita and you will find untouched belts just before downtime. Go outside Caldari space and you will find buckets of ore. And refining it makes it quite easy to move. It may not be 'ideal' but it's there and easy to access, and still perfectly good. |
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 11:51:14 -
[177] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:First page again \o/
Oh, and great stuff. I do hope this will help to rejuvenate the playerbase. Wish it had happend sooner, but i still love this idea.
rejuvenate? lol
I'm more curious about the increase in potential isk selling spammers this may bring. |
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
66
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 14:42:24 -
[178] - Quote
Apologies in advance if this has already been covered by another post, and sorry I didn't have time to read the full thread.
Does creation of one of these Alpha clone accounts require the customer to hand over a credit card number? Or is it just an email address required?
If it is the latter, is CCP ready for the massive increase in EULA breaking behaviour and "hacking" that is going to occur?
If you need a reference: I recommend you study the original Planetside, which removed the credit card info as a requirement to creating free accounts circa 2006 I believe it was, leading to a great influx of players *and* causing the game to be so full of EULA violations that eventually legitimate players were starting to be forced out.
Just make sure you've done the cost-benefit analysis here CCP, the strain on your GM/Security teams is going to increase like never before if you don't tie these accounts to credit cards. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1820
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:06:07 -
[179] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:Apologies in advance if this has already been covered by another post, and sorry I didn't have time to read the full thread.
Does creation of one of these Alpha clone accounts require the customer to hand over a credit card number? Or is it just an email address required?
If it is the latter, is CCP ready for the massive increase in EULA breaking behaviour and "hacking" that is going to occur?
If you need a reference: I recommend you study the original Planetside, which removed the credit card info as a requirement to creating free accounts circa 2006 I believe it was, leading to a great influx of players *and* causing the game to be so full of EULA violations that eventually legitimate players were starting to be forced out.
Just make sure you've done the cost-benefit analysis here CCP, the strain on your GM/Security teams is going to increase like never before if you don't tie these accounts to credit cards.
I have around 40 accounts, and non of them has ever been subscribed by real cash, PLEX only. Cause I have bougth game trading cards (in past) and converted them to 2 PLEX...
If you are violating the EULA, CCP is going to ban ALL your accounts. |
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
66
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 17:15:29 -
[180] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Belinda HwaFang wrote:Apologies in advance if this has already been covered by another post, and sorry I didn't have time to read the full thread.
Does creation of one of these Alpha clone accounts require the customer to hand over a credit card number? Or is it just an email address required?
If it is the latter, is CCP ready for the massive increase in EULA breaking behaviour and "hacking" that is going to occur?
If you need a reference: I recommend you study the original Planetside, which removed the credit card info as a requirement to creating free accounts circa 2006 I believe it was, leading to a great influx of players *and* causing the game to be so full of EULA violations that eventually legitimate players were starting to be forced out.
Just make sure you've done the cost-benefit analysis here CCP, the strain on your GM/Security teams is going to increase like never before if you don't tie these accounts to credit cards. I have around 40 accounts, and non of them has ever been subscribed by real cash, PLEX only. Cause I have bougth game trading cards (in past) and converted them to 2 PLEX... If you are violating the EULA, CCP is going to ban ALL your accounts.
That is assuming they know the superset of all your accounts, past and future. Yes, they can IP block you, but IP addresses aren't an authenticated address, so those with the knowhow/cash to use a subscription hacking service will be fine.
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