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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.03 22:45:08 -
[1] - Quote
Just 1/4 the training requirements between factions.
E.g., maxing cap or navigation skills just to fly a single ship is a ludicrous idea. There's nothing interesting about the journey of maxing support skills, and cap is extremely limited on many fits without V skills, especially cruisers. Speed can be the factor between getting in and out of a fight or just not being able to catch the opponent.
There's not much to discuss. This is exclusively helpful for the game, without detriment to it.
Enjoy. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4728
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Posted - 2016.09.03 22:56:53 -
[2] - Quote
Hi Dror |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1125
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Posted - 2016.09.03 23:14:15 -
[3] - Quote
I've read the OP four times and I still don't have a ******* clue what he's asking for.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.03 23:16:34 -
[4] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:[Memeing]
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2697
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Posted - 2016.09.04 01:13:14 -
[5] - Quote
No. Faction-specific supports are an awful idea. Right now, maxing supports means you never have to touch that boring stuff again. You've arrived. That mountain is behind you. You're now free to cross-train.
Under this proposal, you have to do it all over again when you hop races.
The issue isn't time per se. The issue is a psychological barrier. Cutting it up into smaller chunks and requiring it in different intervals actually raises that barrier and discourages cross-training. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1400
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Posted - 2016.09.04 06:16:11 -
[6] - Quote
Attention everyone that is new in New Eden, everyone else knows this already:
The "basic" skill are not a "limit". Those skills will grant you an increase in any ships ability to perform. Everyone will need to or will have them trained.
We should just remove the que for new capsuleers so they are forced to watch their progression and stop complaining. I cannot hear it anymore.
When you fly a frigate for example and train "Navigation" from 0 to level 1, you will in just 10 minutes or less see that your frigate's sublight speed increased by 5%.
In case you are training "small hybrid turret" to level 3, you will see an increase in damage just because Aura just told you "skill training completed.".
The list continues.
You might get the impression, it was supposed to be like that, so that you get a general idea that training a skill is something beneficial, always.
It is. Maybe not always but it is. When you train battlecruiser for the first time, you will get an idea that the low ranked basic skills were nowhere near as bad (or long) to train as battlecruiser.
The basic skills are for all ships you can pilot as capsuleer. Some take longer to train. This will get you another idea that there might be an artificial barrier for flying these ships and you are correct. Those ships will have a lot of power. The power they have shalt not be taken lightly. You are not entitled or supposed to fly them very early.
Figuring EVE out will take a long time. EVE was created to keep you busy for more than 10 Earth time years.
CCP even managed to crew this up because new capsuleers are sad they cannot war with zee titans after watching the intro video.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26761
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Posted - 2016.09.04 09:51:46 -
[7] - Quote
In the rest of this series of "The Eve Files" we'll cover plex prices, the goonimati, ganking, warp speeds, afk cloakers, 0.1 iskers, CCP sucks and many more uninformed pants on heads insane reasons for the possible future demise of Eve.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1129
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Posted - 2016.09.04 11:52:04 -
[8] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Elenahina wrote:[Memeing]
You're still not making any sense.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
405
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Posted - 2016.09.05 02:03:55 -
[9] - Quote
There shouldn't be a journey of maxing support skills.
Leave that for Korean MMOs. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
707
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Posted - 2016.09.05 02:08:55 -
[10] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Elenahina wrote:[Memeing] Why are you trolling your own thread? I too desire to learn the meaning of your post. I recognise the individual words but I don't get what you're trying to convey. |
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Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.05 03:32:23 -
[11] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:No. Faction-specific supports are an awful idea. Right now, maxing supports means you never have to touch that boring stuff again. You've arrived. That mountain is behind you. You're now free to cross-train.
Under this proposal, you have to do it all over again when you hop races.
The issue isn't time per se. The issue is a psychological barrier. Cutting it up into smaller chunks and requiring it in different intervals actually raises that barrier and discourages cross-training. They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
405
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Posted - 2016.09.05 03:40:48 -
[12] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:No. Faction-specific supports are an awful idea. Right now, maxing supports means you never have to touch that boring stuff again. You've arrived. That mountain is behind you. You're now free to cross-train.
Under this proposal, you have to do it all over again when you hop races.
The issue isn't time per se. The issue is a psychological barrier. Cutting it up into smaller chunks and requiring it in different intervals actually raises that barrier and discourages cross-training. They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy. Explain to me like I'm five, how does having racial support skills ensure that fresh subs find joy? |
Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.05 04:57:49 -
[13] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:No. Faction-specific supports are an awful idea. Right now, maxing supports means you never have to touch that boring stuff again. You've arrived. That mountain is behind you. You're now free to cross-train.
Under this proposal, you have to do it all over again when you hop races.
The issue isn't time per se. The issue is a psychological barrier. Cutting it up into smaller chunks and requiring it in different intervals actually raises that barrier and discourages cross-training. They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy. Explain to me like I'm five, how does having racial support skills ensure that fresh subs find joy?
Zoltan Cole wrote:They're boring because they're ludicrous.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
406
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Posted - 2016.09.05 05:12:05 -
[14] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Rawketsled wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:No. Faction-specific supports are an awful idea. Right now, maxing supports means you never have to touch that boring stuff again. You've arrived. That mountain is behind you. You're now free to cross-train.
Under this proposal, you have to do it all over again when you hop races.
The issue isn't time per se. The issue is a psychological barrier. Cutting it up into smaller chunks and requiring it in different intervals actually raises that barrier and discourages cross-training. They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy. Explain to me like I'm five, how does having racial support skills ensure that fresh subs find joy? Zoltan Cole wrote:They're boring because they're ludicrous.
Explain like I'm five why they're ludicrous. |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
44
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Posted - 2016.09.05 05:17:53 -
[15] - Quote
So wait, OP wants me to have to train Engineering and CPU to five again for each race?
F that. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3003
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Posted - 2016.09.05 05:25:57 -
[16] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:So wait, OP wants me to have to train Engineering and CPU to five again for each race?
F that.
i would assume he wants the current skills split meaning you would already have them
tbh i'm indifferent to the idea
Citadel worm hole tax
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
87
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Posted - 2016.09.05 05:34:12 -
[17] - Quote
It's not such a bad idea. But it was here before and people burried it. Keeping total training time the same while splitting the skill into 4 way is a decent idea it essentially means you get maxed much sooner. AWU is 20 days? Imagine faction AWU with 5 days. Wow gamebreaking right? It's probably just going to make a mess but since CCP splits skills of their own will I guess it's not so bad.
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3005
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Posted - 2016.09.05 06:38:45 -
[18] - Quote
okay what about the skills that need these skills?
do you have a way for those to work? how are you going to keep their training time the same? can't just make them need all four of the race skills if you do that you will have players confused as to why they need gallente/amarr/mimatar PG to fly an onyx
tbh these skills do not take all that long to train
Citadel worm hole tax
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
87
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Posted - 2016.09.05 06:42:09 -
[19] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:okay what about the skills that need these skills?
do you have a way for those to work? how are you going to keep their training time the same? can't just make them need all four of the race skills if you do that you will have players confused as to why they need gallente/amarr/mimatar PG to fly an onyx
tbh these skills do not take all that long to train Factionalize ALL THE THINGS! There is faction strat cruiser let there be fac hic. And fac it all up. (ho ho a pun!)
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3005
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Posted - 2016.09.05 06:54:51 -
[20] - Quote
Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:okay what about the skills that need these skills?
do you have a way for those to work? how are you going to keep their training time the same? can't just make them need all four of the race skills if you do that you will have players confused as to why they need gallente/amarr/mimatar PG to fly an onyx
tbh these skills do not take all that long to train Factionalize ALL THE THINGS! There is faction strat cruiser let there be fac hic. And fac it all up. (ho ho a pun!)
but its not directly for the hic skill its for grav phy do we need a faction varriant of that tooo? would we now also need 4 triage siege and bastion mods??
besides the fact that all the T2 ships have one skill is a good thing and makes it feel a lot easier to get a new ship. like if i can fly a basi at level 5 its a lot more worth it to spend 25 days to get a guardian at level 5. if there was a faction logi skill i would need to spend 25 days to get guardian level one and then need a weak or so more training to get it to level 5. even though technecly overall i have spent less time training (assuming the racial t2 skills would just be a division of the main one) this way feels faster and more rewarding. It also feels more natural, i already understand the workings of a logistics craft (the logistics skill) so i just need to understand better how amarrian ship design differs from caldari (the t1 cruiser skill) and i should be able to handle it.
Citadel worm hole tax
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
87
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Posted - 2016.09.05 08:20:35 -
[21] - Quote
Dont know what the tell you honestly I was being semi-sarcastic, but just because the skill tree works as it is does not make it perfect. Grav physic 4 is not bad. It's lvl 5s that are primary concern of mine. And to certain degree it does make sense. But splitting the tree is indisputably a way for easier high end access. Easier high end access is definitelly a way to get someone to sub. How long they stay on sub is another issue. I would like t2 things split. Logi 5 is rather OP jump in ship efficiency while its impact varies across
But then logi v is not a "support" skill per se, capacitor management is of reasonable concern.
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3005
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Posted - 2016.09.05 08:55:34 -
[22] - Quote
what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills
Citadel worm hole tax
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
88
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Posted - 2016.09.05 11:35:59 -
[23] - Quote
Well it's a choice between compulsity and redundancy. Fact that skills become redundant without being compulsory lile electronic upgrades and emergy grid upgrades is not mine to solve. But having full pg in your faction boat should be handy. Yet pg or engineering skill or whatever is it called makes an adept for exception since the training multiplier is 1 already but yet could be further reduced. We could back the change up with skill prereq correction. Look at sensor strength compensation skills for instance cant see crowds wanting just one. Its essentialy the same a simple ship stat. Just because no one said hey, let's make it a prereq for something else should not be deciding factor. We could just split the research among factions. Making prereqs seem silly is status quo anyway. Still reduces training time. But that's just one of possible attitudes.
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.05 13:47:22 -
[24] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
821
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Posted - 2016.09.05 14:56:05 -
[25] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy.
How?
Bitters like me have these, and 5'd. Fly what you did before patch the ccp way....so bitters have all these 5'd day 1. Insert the we can't catch up quickly uproars here....1 step forward, 2 steps back here really.
Fresh meat comes in goes I want this new race now. WTH...I have to redo this all over again. This kind of eve's allure over other games. Rerolls at level 1, nothing carries over. I found it tiresome in time. WHy I liked eve. WU/AWU 5 suck balls I won't lie. But when its done, its done. Unless you roll cap alts...and that's a player decision to relive the pain lol.
Crosstrains are the weakness here. Fast to 1 race....annoying as hell to tack on new ones. More annoying than just being done.
Also pirate rebalance time....again. What support skills do they use for max ship stats?
Especially on the less cut and dry ships like nightmare and mach. Unlike gurista who heavily fall under caldari (fluff reasons, fatal and the rabbit stuff) other pirate races are all over. Nightmare is caldari and amarr. Whose cap skills take precedence? Amarr makes sense to me (controlling race of the primary weapon), someone will argue caldari. And we'd both be right lol. |
Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.05 15:18:01 -
[26] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy.
How? Bitters like me have these, and 5'd. Fly what you did before patch the ccp way....so bitters have all these 5'd day 1. Insert the we can't catch up quickly uproars here....1 step forward, 2 steps back here really. Fresh meat comes in goes I want this new race now. WTH...I have to redo this all over again. This kind of eve's allure over other games. Rerolls at level 1, nothing carries over. I found it tiresome in time. WHy I liked eve. WU/AWU 5 suck balls I won't lie. But when its done, its done. Unless you roll cap alts...and that's a player decision to relive the pain lol. Crosstrains are the weakness here. Fast to 1 race....annoying as hell to tack on new ones. More annoying than just being done. Also pirate rebalance time....again. What support skills do they use for max ship stats? Especially on the less cut and dry ships like nightmare and mach. Unlike gurista who heavily fall under caldari (fluff reasons, fatal and the rabbit stuff) other pirate races are all over. Nightmare is caldari and amarr. Whose cap skills take precedence? Amarr makes sense to me (controlling race of the primary weapon), someone will argue caldari. And we'd both be right lol. So that they experience ships with full stats before they unsub. The industry is ripe for skillful gameplay, based on knowledge, which an SP wall is nothing of. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
713
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Posted - 2016.09.05 15:27:56 -
[27] - Quote
I still don't have all V support stats. While I cannot deny my comrades' numbers are more often than not higher than mine, I too get to dish out my fair share of punishment- and to be entirely candid, I enjoy doing so with not-all-V ships and support skills.
Whoever told you you *need* everything to V to enjoy your game does not know how to have a good time my friend |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3007
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Posted - 2016.09.05 15:35:41 -
[28] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.
sigh.... train reading comprehension to at least level one please.
PG is the support skill in question I'm asking how grav physics would work as it needs that skill. understanding that try re-reading that dialog chain.
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zoltan Cole
All-Out White Stag Exit Bag
6
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Posted - 2016.09.05 15:42:46 -
[29] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8. sigh.... train reading comprehension to at least level one please. PG is the support skill in question I'm asking how grav physics would work as it needs that skill. understanding that try re-reading that dialog chain. If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3007
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Posted - 2016.09.05 16:55:03 -
[30] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8. sigh.... train reading comprehension to at least level one please. PG is the support skill in question I'm asking how grav physics would work as it needs that skill. understanding that try re-reading that dialog chain. If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings.
.... what????
how would you handle a situation like grav physics?
Citadel worm hole tax
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