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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1886
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Posted - 2016.09.09 08:43:30 -
[61] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:March rabbit wrote:In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.
Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.
I don't see much problems here. In real life individuals can't disappear from the universe at will. Ask moskito where did it go when you put lights on....
Or you can try to follow somebody over the city.... Unless you have group of professionals you will lose him after 2-3 subway stations or markets..... And he does not need to 'disappear from the universe'. He just need to find some cover and you already lost him.
'hunters'.....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2470
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Posted - 2016.09.09 08:52:24 -
[62] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Toriessian wrote:March rabbit wrote:In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.
Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.
I don't see much problems here. Ironically 3/4 of the RL hunters I know use the "Jita" method of hunting. They sit in a shack 50 yards from a corn feeder and wait for deer to come by looking for a snack. Don't even get me started on cameras mounted on trees. (they're like scout alts lol) What do you want? EVE is real It's not that in EVE players are lazy. They come to the game already being lazy. Never been hunting have you? Have hunted a lot myself. If I see a big boar I know that boar is there the next day. It doesn't magically disappear. It leaves tracks and damage I can use to follow it. It's not in one of +7000 paddocks in the area. It's not alerted by a 100%accurate red star icon when I drive up in it's area.
EvE is nothing like actual hunting
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Valkin Mordirc
2476
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Posted - 2016.09.09 08:52:59 -
[63] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:People have habits you should study what they do and then use it against them. I know hunters who camp supers for weeks before getting the kill.
Just sounds like you want it on a silver platter without any actual effort
There is a major difference. You talking about a multi-billion dollar Super
to a sub-billion subcap
Saying that both should require equal amount of work to catch is ridiculous.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Valkin Mordirc
2476
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:00:19 -
[64] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DioKahn wrote:The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please. Hypothetically, you could choose to wardec corps you know something about, had some some scouting and research on and had a reason to dec other than farming.
Which we have said multiple times.
People's habits change when they get decced. Making weeks worth of intel work completely ******* useless once the dec drops.
You go to the park everyday yeah? Its part of your daily routine, And I come up and say, "HEY! In 24 hours IMMA DECK YAH IN THE SHNOZZE"
Are you seriously going to go the park the next day?
Also, Highsec corps do not consolidate in a certain systems. It's not a normal thing. They are scattered. So intel work in a dense area like highsec, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2470
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:02:30 -
[65] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:People have habits you should study what they do and then use it against them. I know hunters who camp supers for weeks before getting the kill.
Just sounds like you want it on a silver platter without any actual effort There is a major difference. You talking about a multi-billion dollar Super to a sub-billion subcap Saying that both should require equal amount of work to catch is ridiculous. I must say I never supported watch lists myself. The super thing was ******** as was the 100%free Intel for wardecs. Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.
The right way to have gone may have been skills and perhaps a module for covert ops ships so you could acquire Intel, or at the very minimum add (offline) or (online) to the agent query result.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Valkin Mordirc
2478
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:09:32 -
[66] - Quote
I completely agree with the watchlist changes.
What I disagree with has been the broad and unthinking stroke that ccp used to fix it.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17948
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
likewise, for the last six months we have been saying the same thing, which is pretty much
Infinity Ziona wrote:Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.
none of us mind doing work or pushing ourselves a bit further for the intell but not to the point of burn out. which is pretty much whats called for now. that or become a hub humping degenerate.
the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
this way i cant know where you are logged off unless i follow you there and watch you logoff i cant gather intell on you while you are not playing the game this does not scale well with larger groups its delayed there is no notification that you have logged on or off so it goes from a passive tool to an active one its a **** tone of busy work
=]|[=
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Infinity Ziona
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2471
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:32:40 -
[68] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:likewise, for the last six months we have been saying the same thing, which is pretty much Infinity Ziona wrote:Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.
none of us mind doing work or pushing ourselves a bit further for the intell but not to the point of burn out. which is pretty much whats called for now. that or become a hub humping degenerate. the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players. this way i cant know where you are logged off unless i follow you there and watch you logoff i cant gather intell on you while you are not playing the game this does not scale well with larger groups its delayed there is no notification that you have logged on or off so it goes from a passive tool to an active one its a **** tone of busy work That's pretty good yeah. There's a counter to it too. You simply ask your members to stay logged on during wars. Seems like a decent compromise.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:54:15 -
[69] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
124
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:58:29 -
[70] - Quote
New Item: Tracking Bug
Fits to a hidden rig slot
Fired from core probe launcher (non aggressive action if used with passive targeter, flags suspect if not used in tandem with module)
Attaches to target ship, Repackaging is the only way to remove the rig unless we have some sort of nanite thing to root them out.
Pings you when engines are active and lights up on the map
Cloaking and wormholes/new 0.0 spai arrays can obfuscate signal
Target can only detect the tracker rig if some scans their ship with a ship scanner, and only at point blank range.
Voila, new fun game mechanics, new indy stuff to build and lots of paranoid targets.
Limited range of operation, requires you to be in X lightyears to work, which keeps locator functionality.
Discuss |
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2016.09.09 10:25:58 -
[71] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:New Item: Tracking Bug
.... Discuss
Ship alarms should go off when I cruise by and I should hear static on in game music from time to time.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17949
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Posted - 2016.09.09 11:00:09 -
[72] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling. no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now.
ill sort it shortly though
=]|[=
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Morgan Agrivar
TriStar Market Solutions
486
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Posted - 2016.09.09 11:40:15 -
[73] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:oiukhp Muvila wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling. no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now. ill sort it shortly though He has my support. I would go back to highsec wardecs if they enact that.
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
561
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Posted - 2016.09.09 15:05:25 -
[74] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:oiukhp Muvila wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling. no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now. ill sort it shortly though Will keep an eye on it.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17954
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Posted - 2016.09.09 16:17:35 -
[75] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:oiukhp Muvila wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.
Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling. no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now. ill sort it shortly though Will keep an eye on it. Boop here we are.
Click me
=]|[=
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DioKahn
RedStar Inc. The Marmite Collective
0
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Posted - 2016.12.01 05:45:26 -
[76] - Quote
I get as much value from using this forum as I do from Youtube comments. Bye. |
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
138
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Posted - 2016.12.01 06:07:39 -
[77] - Quote
DioKahn wrote:I get as much value from using this forum as I do from Youtube comments. Bye. If people don't like your idea of "Please bring back my free intel" and you spit the dummy.
Maybe Merc work is not for you. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2986
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Posted - 2016.12.01 10:53:02 -
[78] - Quote
Forget even wardecs for a second. Much of Eve gameplay (and the most engaging of it in my opinion) is built upon continued interactions between the players, so it makes no sense for players to have no way to determine if their opponent is online.
Take killrights and bounties for instance in this hypothetical example. Say some player loses a hauler or exploration ship while in lowsec and is podded. They want vengeance and notice that the pirate has a significant bounty on them. They have this killright, so they decide to stalk them knowing that even in highsec, they can engage and kill them for some of that bounty and sweet revenge.
So they spend the next few hours studying killboards, come up with a fit they think will work, and rope their friends into being on standby to provide some sneaky remote reps when they give the call and then log off. The next day they log in and run a locator finding the target is 15 jumps away. They slog on over only to find the target not in local. The ask their friend to run another locator to see if target has moved, and wait around only to find out the target is still there in the station and this logged off. They say 'drat' and fly back home after wasting 45 minutes of their time. They try this again the next day after finding the target is in a different system deep in lowsec. They trudge on over and do another locate, only to find yet again, the target is not online. At this point they throw up their hands, say "**** it" and give up on their plans to get satisfaction and return to grinding exploration sites and doing PI.
This is not good game design CCP. We get that instant and free intel on people login was OP, but the current systems to locate other players to carry on your feud are now insufficient. It is not workable that hunting someone requires a massive manpower-intensive intel networks, or corporate infiltration just to know if your opponent is even vulnerable. It's like if you provided no information on the next vulnerable window of a citadel - how broken would that be? Sure, you'd still have people here (mostly carebear citadel owners) saying "get good" and telling you to go camp that citadel for 24/7 until you figure out when you can attack, but that is far too tedious to be practical.
Yes, I am aware there are non-official workarounds, but there really needs to be more, sanctioned ways to know when your targets are active. Whether that is a change to locator functionality, new tracking modules or items, or new structures in space, something needs to be done to let players find each other if you want players stories to still be told (or at least more interesting than "I flew to Jita and then I exploded"), especially by the small groups and solo players. They don't have to be free, they don't have to be instant, and they don't have to be invulnerable, but more needs to exist for hunters in a game where logging out means you are 100% invulnerable to attack.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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2Sonas1Cup
160
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Posted - 2016.12.01 10:58:58 -
[79] - Quote
OP has a point and all I see from people replies in this thread is salt.. a full load of it.
@op the whinning kids cry out too loud and CCP always does what they want instead of what's good for the game.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18428
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Posted - 2016.12.01 11:00:18 -
[80] - Quote
CCP just needs to change locator agents to return a "I'm sorry the target has gone to ground" or "we were unable to locate your target" if the target is offline. |
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
374
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Posted - 2016.12.01 11:29:38 -
[81] - Quote
imagine that, you actually have to do work now to get your kills. its not hard to find your enemy as they have specifics, it just takes a degree of intelligence and specialization that most in eve lack. Real world experience that I have, have caused corporations and alliances to topple with out me even firing a round, its not often I do it, only to those that make my list.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18428
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:23:51 -
[82] - Quote
Agondray wrote:imagine that, you actually have to do work now to get your kills. its not hard to find your enemy as they have specifics, it just takes a degree of intelligence and specialization that most in eve lack. Real world experience that I have, have caused corporations and alliances to topple with out me even firing a round, its not often I do it, only to those that make my list.
Go try it, you will find you end up spending almost all of your time chasing ghosts. This is why mercs are now mostly found in the trade hubs waiting for their targets to come to them. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46115
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:27:07 -
[83] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Real world experience that I have, have caused corporations and alliances to topple with out me even firing a round, its not often I do it, only to those that make my list. Name one.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8159
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:29:16 -
[84] - Quote
Agondray wrote:it just takes a degree of intelligence and specialization that most in eve lack.
Tell me, have you ever killed anything without help from CONCORD?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Salvos Rhoska
1616
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:40:05 -
[85] - Quote
Changes have increasingly reduced Merc Crops, as essentially "Corps for Hire" content providers, to simple piracy. Its blurred the lines between Mercs and Pirates, and reduced the common denominator to mass WDs and trade hub campingl
Mercs fulfill the three core qualities in my PVP vs PVE diagram in my sig, and introduce PVP outwards to affect all the peripheral PVE activities in fulfillment of their contracts. So, ofc, do Pirates, but Mercs are contracted for the specific ends of their services purchasers.
As basically "Corps for Hire", they should be considered central content creators that embody aggressive capitalist values of EVE, especially for non-combat corps to hire to explode/impair the operations of their competing corps when they dont have the expertise/firepower to do so themselves, to protect their own operations, additional expert firepower, or ofc just for good old settling of vendettas.
Pirates are indiscriminate, Mercs are hired. Pirates are a universal risk, Mercs are specific. Its sad this distinction is being lose between two very different kinds of content/service.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Hrist Harkonnen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:45:03 -
[86] - Quote
DioKahn wrote:The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.
So you have to work to get PVP now? Damn that must suck not having easy targets handed for you.
Try EVE Online for FREE with 250.000 extra skill points here!
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8159
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:46:34 -
[87] - Quote
Hrist Harkonnen wrote:DioKahn wrote:The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please. So you have to work to get PVP now? Damn that must suck not having easy targets handed for you.
Let us know when you've ever shot at anything ever, so we can take your opinion on finding targets seriously.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18428
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:58:29 -
[88] - Quote
Hrist Harkonnen wrote:DioKahn wrote:The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please. So you have to work to get PVP now? Damn that must suck not having easy targets handed for you.
I take it you enjoy hunting players not even online? |
Drunk Gatekeeper
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.01 13:18:50 -
[89] - Quote
Honestly, the entire war deck feature is dumb. Come out into null sec, jesus. If you want to kill miners that bad, at least go ahead and suicide kill them. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8159
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Posted - 2016.12.01 13:23:31 -
[90] - Quote
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:Honestly, the entire war deck feature is dumb. Come out into null sec, jesus. If you want to kill miners that bad, at least go ahead and suicide kill them.
Sorry, but even if you really are a nulseccer disguised as an NPC corp newbro, the elitist argument is not an argument against PVP in high sec, even if miners are the only targets, which they are not, so grow up.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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