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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
978
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Posted - 2016.09.11 00:56:52 -
[211] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:You're trying to convince us that it's somehow logical that an empty freighter should not be as safe flying around solo in high sec as, say, a Battleship. Answering the question, as it's a loaded one, forces me to agree to that premise. I don't agree wit that premise as it's silly, it's factually the case in game atm but silly nonetheless. No I'm not trying to convince anyone of that. I don't agree with that.
There are examples every single day, every hour, of Freighters successfully flying solo and that is perfectly fine.
I'm saying that if you are looking for increased safety (reduced risk) by making things more convenient for haulers and less convenient for gankers, then I don't currently see the need for this ship versus the perfect counter that is already available.
So far, all you have done is continue to say I'm saying something I am not. I'm focused on the change in risk and the benefits of one solution over this proposal.
You have offered no logical counter to the use of a webbing alt and just continue to dismiss what I have written for some made up load of BS.
If people want to fly solo in highsec, that is perfectly fine. It happens all the time quite effectively.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2681
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Posted - 2016.09.11 00:56:54 -
[212] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:[quote=Shae Tadaruwa]
As long as empty freighters and JF get ganked for lulz there is something inherently wrong with the cost equation of ganking,
Why isn't it reasonable for people to kill empty Freighters and Jump Freighters?
I kill ships all the time in this game without worrying about what they will drop or what they are worth - the whole point of this game is to kill space ships.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
752
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Posted - 2016.09.11 00:59:44 -
[213] - Quote
.... I have no answer for you Shae. But I'll tell you what I think anyway.
That second toon you need, the one that allegedly provides 100% safety... for one it assumes my computer can handle that (which it can't), secondly it assumed I have a spare bil each month to keep it running (which I also don't), but most importantly, I don't believe it offers the degree of safety you claim it does.
I've shot enough DSTs to know how easy it is to catch one (in nullsec you can even grab the blockade runners, thanks to bubbles), it's perfectly possible to decloak and lock a target in under 10 sec.
Secondly, if they were so safe people would be flying their freighters through lowsec, which they don't because obviously, 100% safety isn't what it used to be.
Assuming you're right, a freighter is the better option: it moves 800k m3 at 1 AU/sec whereas dualboxing DSTs would only get up to 140k m3 at 1.2 AU/sec (including a second roundtrip a to b, back to a, back to b). With two characters, a JF is even better!
The problem I have, is (1) assuming people NEED two characters. For a capital ship, which usually requires a cyno, this is valid. For a subcap it isn't. Since I was asking for a subcap-sized ship, I guess we agree on that one. (2) refuting the idea of a faster hauler with less cargospace because of ganking rubs me the wrong way.
Why, you ask? Because I barely ever see a gank! If only 1% (if that) of the highsec population absolutely insists to kill whatever regardless of profit, it's not exactly mainstream. Sure, there's a lot of talk about it but it never happens except for the same old systems, every day. Red frog autopilots all the time with triple cargoexpanders, and hardly ever lose a ship.
So here we are: because a tiny portion of the playerbase makes a lot of noise, I "have to" fly something slow and bulky. Why exactly? Carrying half the cargo and moving at twice the warpspeed does not invalidate your ability to gank it; yet in the end we can't have such a thing because of :reasons:.
The major timesink is not the aligning, it's the warptunnel. The second account may (or may not) provide additional safety but since this is also the case for a Full Freighter, where's the problem? A vexor also works better with an exeq behind it but I don't hear people yelling "when flying your vexor through highsec, have a scout / have an exeq" ... nor is the case with a DST or blockade runner.
How much should one person be able to move on one account? Trick question. Less than a freighter for sure. Half? 400k at 1 AU/sec? (200k at 2 AU/sec -- which is incidentally what I was asking for ) ... I don't think subcaps *should* be dualboxed. As long as the new ship doesn't step on a freighter's toes, it should be fine.
I'm sorry I can't be more precise but that's my line of thinking. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
19
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Posted - 2016.09.11 00:59:48 -
[214] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:[quote=Shae Tadaruwa]
As long as empty freighters and JF get ganked for lulz there is something inherently wrong with the cost equation of ganking, Why isn't it reasonable for people to kill empty Freighters and Jump Freighters? I kill ships all the time in this game without worrying about what they will drop or what they are worth - the whole point of this game is to kill space ships.
Suiciding in high sec? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3074
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:08:53 -
[215] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:also the scorp and widow are not flown even remotely the same And why is that?
wait really?
you try jamming something at 120k in a widow.... or getting an ecm burst to reliably effect an arazu in a scorp
BLOPS Hauler
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Iain Cariaba
3194
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:15:32 -
[216] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:That brings with it, certain risks. The second that flying around in an empty fit BS in HS is as dangerous as flying around in a Freighter you have a point. Until then, you don't. News flash, it is. Ok, go fly an unfitted Raven through Uedama 20 times, now do the same with an unfitted Freighter. If you know how to fly the ship properly, flying an unfit freighter is safer than flying an unfit battleship. Hell, I flew a freighter for years before CCP even made it possible to put a fitting on it.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3075
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:18:51 -
[217] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote: The real question is: at what point should it make sense to gank an empty freighter? The answer is that it shouldn't, an empty (or basic fit) ship shouldn't be a low cost risk free gank. If the target made it personal or the module/cargo value is high enough then it should make sense to gank.
it should always make sense to kill anything and everything should that be the gameplay you are after
its not risk free it only looks that way to people who fly unprepared
monetary gain is not the only incentive
BLOPS Hauler
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Iain Cariaba
3194
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:21:51 -
[218] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:.... The problem I have, is (1) assuming people NEED two characters. Or you could try this radical thing called "asking for help." Last time I was in a highsec corp, I could easily get a couple corpmates to scout and web for me, simply to provide them a break from the tedium of missions. Alts are used when I can't get an actual human to provide assistance.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
19
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:21:54 -
[219] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:That brings with it, certain risks. The second that flying around in an empty fit BS in HS is as dangerous as flying around in a Freighter you have a point. Until then, you don't. News flash, it is. Ok, go fly an unfitted Raven through Uedama 20 times, now do the same with an unfitted Freighter. If you know how to fly the ship properly, flying an unfit freighter is safer than flying an unfit battleship. Hell, I flew a freighter for years before CCP even made it possible to put a fitting on it.
You're evading the point. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3075
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:25:23 -
[220] - Quote
pretty sure back when i used to gank we targeted common mission running BBs like ravens more than freighters do to the higher chance of blue green and purple... and no we did not waist time scanning an empty BB was just as likely to get shot as a full officer fit
BLOPS Hauler
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
978
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:26:30 -
[221] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:.... I have no answer for you Shae. But I'll tell you what I think anyway.
That second toon you need, the one that allegedly provides 100% safety... for one it assumes my computer can handle that (which it can't), secondly it assumed I have a spare bil each month to keep it running (which I also don't), but most importantly, I don't believe it offers the degree of safety you claim it does.
It certainly requires a second character and the most convenient is an alt. It isn't the only solution (eg. working with other players), but those other solutions have their own downsides (eg. Hauling scheduling is determined by 2 players if they have to work together, rather than one working alone and trust).
On the computer issue I agree. Not everyone's computer will handle 2 clients running together. I'm not sure that is something that should affect what ships get added to the game unless it's going to affect everyone. It might be, I'm just not sure at the moment if that is something CCP should design around.
I think it would be hard for CCP to design to a lowest common denominator computer system and still be able to deliver a modern gaming experience, so I lean towards them designing for modern systems, but happy to change my mind.
[quote[I've shot enough DSTs to know how easy it is to catch one (in nullsec you can even grab the blockade runners, thanks to bubbles), it's perfectly possible to decloak and lock a target in under 10 sec.[/quote] I have lost DSTs and Blockade runners in nullsec. In the end, they were used for my convenience and/or I didn't scout ahead since it's so easy to go solo in a DST or BR, so I paid the price for my own mistakes.
**** happens and yes BRs in particular can be caught easily on gate. A hic and an interceptor working together have uncloaked me several times even if I use the MWD/cloak trick to try to move in an odd direction quickly.
Quote:Secondly, if they were so safe people would be flying their freighters through lowsec, which they don't because obviously, 100% safety isn't what it used to be. I'm not so sure. Undocking and warping takes a long time because webbing only works when the ship starts from a neat stationary position.
If Freighters go into lowsec or nullsec, they'd be sitting ducks every time they undock because that happens at velocity, requiring time to align to warp.
Using an instaundock can increase safety, however even clicking behind the Freighter as it drops out of warp (to really slow it quickly) takes longer than the time to combat probe and warp.
So using them in lowsec has big issues.
Quote:The problem I have, is (1) assuming people NEED two characters. For a capital ship, which usually requires a cyno, this is valid. For a subcap it isn't. Since I was asking for a subcap-sized ship, I guess we agree on that one. (2) refuting the idea of a faster hauler with less cargospace because of ganking rubs me the wrong way. I can agree on that. The OP has focussed a bit on the ganking aspect, so it's what I've focused on.
If it's for a different reason where there is a gap in ships available, then that would be a different issue.
Quote:The major timesink is not the aligning, it's the warptunnel. The second account may (or may not) provide additional safety but since this is also the case for a Full Freighter, where's the problem? A vexor also works better with an exeq behind it but I don't hear people yelling "when flying your vexor through highsec, have a scout / have an exeq" ... nor is the case with a DST or blockade runner. How much should one person be able to move on one account? Trick question. Less than a freighter for sure. Half? 400k at 1 AU/sec? (200k at 2 AU/sec -- which is incidentally what I was asking for ) ... I don't think subcaps *should* be dualboxed. As long as the new ship doesn't step on a freighter's toes, it should be fine. I'm sorry I can't be more precise but that's my line of thinking. Yes, the major time sink is definitely the warp. Even using a webbing alt that takes a 1 minute aggression timer with everytime webs are used, the webbing alt warps and jumps to the next system just as the Freighter arrives at gate, about 90% of the time.
I don't see a problem in terms of the warp aspect. It's not in warp where the Freighters are vulnerable. It's when aligning. The webbing alt reduces that align time to 2-3 ticks of the server from the moment of decloak. The warp is the tedious part.
On examples of other ships, the most relevant example would be mining barges and exhumers, which as subcaps are regularly ganked and in that case, there is a lot of advice available to avoid being ganked. So I suspect, if the same happended with Vexors (or any other ship), advice would soon appear. They aren't a big target, so no priority to give advice for.
On the last paragraph, I agree. If there is a reason that isn't tied into reduced gank risk (which is what the OP has focused on), then I'm all ears.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3076
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:28:06 -
[222] - Quote
also i don't think you have given a valid reason why a single player should be able on his own to fend against 19+
BLOPS Hauler
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3565
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:29:33 -
[223] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote: Or you could try this radical thing called "asking for help." Last time I was in a highsec corp, I could easily get a couple corpmates to scout and web for me, simply to provide them a break from the tedium of missions. Alts are used when I can't get an actual human to provide assistance.
The same way null sec alliances just 'LOVE' to do freighter escort convoys instead of using Jump Freighters right.... and all long to return to the good old days with no jumps and long escort days constantly..... Lets be real here, you are not going to get real people to give up their time on the scale of freighters moving.
Freighters (& other industrials) should be fittable as per other ships of their class, just with bonuses towards hauling, not fighting. And that includes some weapon slots. Who cares if that means some niche fits will actually be combat viable, that's a good thing, not a bad thing. And would mean that we could make concord response take a couple of minutes (Note, should be replaced with 'Death ray' before this to avoid massive spawn issues), which means there is time for player skill to actually impact on a gank, as well as other bystanders having meaningful time to do things. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
978
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 01:31:55 -
[224] - Quote
Just go and sign this petition a guy made today after losing 60 million:
https://www.change.org/p/eve-online-anti-gankers-anti-ganking-petition-to-ccp
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3076
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Posted - 2016.09.11 01:39:59 -
[225] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote: Or you could try this radical thing called "asking for help." Last time I was in a highsec corp, I could easily get a couple corpmates to scout and web for me, simply to provide them a break from the tedium of missions. Alts are used when I can't get an actual human to provide assistance.
The same way null sec alliances just 'LOVE' to do freighter escort convoys instead of using Jump Freighters right.... and all long to return to the good old days with no jumps and long escort days constantly..... Lets be real here, you are not going to get real people to give up their time on the scale of freighters moving.
yet i have gotten people to spend time moving freighters... so "being real" people are and i have given up time on the scale of freighter moving.
as for the null thing you can't really compare a freighter in null can get blapped before the first rep has time to land and webs wont save you from bubbles
BLOPS Hauler
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
752
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:08:45 -
[226] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:also i don't think you have given a valid reason why a single player should be able on his own to fend against 19+ Why should I give a valid reason for a point you dragged out in the first place? You tell me why you think this should be so, cause I for one don't think it should.
Simple truth is it can't fend against even 1 opponent; it has no guns. You can throw 278 ships at it and lose them all- as soon as you engage you lose your ship. Whether you blow it up or not. With the numbers I gave you wouldn't even need 19 to gank it. You also failed to detail the nature of said ships. Taloses? Vexors? Thrashers? Eventually, it'll come down to how much ISK you're willing to throw at it and then maybe you can start working on an argument towards the point you long to make.
Is 19 a magical balance number? Would 12 be okay? Why not 42? Are you perhaps entitled to blow stuff up-- and how long should I align to give your guys ample time to take point because god forbid I might be too fast for your 800mm scanres?
..... I don't know what you want me to say. You want to gank. I get it. Now stick some numbers to it-- how much is "balanced" in your opinion? |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1811
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:11:02 -
[227] - Quote
Throughout all of this, still nobody has given a practical situation where this would he used instead of any of the solutions we have now...... |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3076
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:20:17 -
[228] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:also i don't think you have given a valid reason why a single player should be able on his own to fend against 19+ Why should I give a valid reason for a point you dragged out in the first place? You tell me why you think this should be so, cause I for one don't think it should. Simple truth is it can't fend against even 1 opponent; it has no guns. You can throw 278 ships at it and lose them all- as soon as you engage you lose your ship. Whether you blow it up or not. With the numbers I gave you wouldn't even need 19 to gank it. You also failed to detail the nature of said ships. Taloses? Vexors? Thrashers? Eventually, it'll come down to how much ISK you're willing to throw at it and then maybe you can start working on an argument towards the point you long to make. Is 19 a magical balance number? Would 12 be okay? Why not 42? Are you perhaps entitled to blow stuff up-- and how long should I align to give your guys ample time to take point because god forbid I might be too fast for your 800mm scanres? ..... I don't know what you want me to say. You want to gank. I get it. Now stick some numbers to it-- how much is "balanced" in your opinion?
that was in response to him saying it was unreasonable that 19 2 mill desis could kill a freighter
BLOPS Hauler
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2681
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:21:07 -
[229] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:[quote=Shae Tadaruwa]
As long as empty freighters and JF get ganked for lulz there is something inherently wrong with the cost equation of ganking, Why isn't it reasonable for people to kill empty Freighters and Jump Freighters? I kill ships all the time in this game without worrying about what they will drop or what they are worth - the whole point of this game is to kill space ships. Suiciding in high sec?
No, I have never suicided in high security space. I think I might have three kills in high security space in 9.5 years playing this game - all of them involving people who declared war on my corporation. I have killed a few thousand people over the years though - across this character and my various alts - and the return on investment for the kill never even occurred to me. This game is about causing losses to other players - that's why people kill 7B ISK ships piloted by unknown people - it's a loss to someone else. Turning a profit has nothing to do with it.
So once again, why isn't it reasonable for people to kill empty Freighters and Jump Freighters?
This afternoon, we were waiting for a fleet to leave and this hapless Orca pilot jumped into PF-346 from Orvolle. He's been playing almost four years. He should have known better, but he warped to FD-MLJ and jumped into our gate camp. I helped tackle him with one of my characters and then we killed him. It was nothing personal. He just happened to be in an Orca and we could kill him. We jumped out of our Machariels and got into smaller stuff and hurried over to finish him off. The whole time we were shooting him, we were hoping that he was glorious cyno bait. He wasn't. He was just a hapless dude who today was not very good at Eve and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
What is the difference between killing a hapless Orca pilot in FD-MLJ and killing a hapless Orca pilot in Uedama?
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Faylee Freir
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
302
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:22:20 -
[230] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:also i don't think you have given a valid reason why a single player should be able on his own to fend against 19+ Why should I give a valid reason for a point you dragged out in the first place? You tell me why you think this should be so, cause I for one don't think it should. Simple truth is it can't fend against even 1 opponent; it has no guns. You can throw 278 ships at it and lose them all- as soon as you engage you lose your ship. Whether you blow it up or not. With the numbers I gave you wouldn't even need 19 to gank it. You also failed to detail the nature of said ships. Taloses? Vexors? Thrashers? Eventually, it'll come down to how much ISK you're willing to throw at it and then maybe you can start working on an argument towards the point you long to make. Is 19 a magical balance number? Would 12 be okay? Why not 42? Are you perhaps entitled to blow stuff up-- and how long should I align to give your guys ample time to take point because god forbid I might be too fast for your 800mm scanres? ..... I don't know what you want me to say. You want to gank. I get it. Now stick some numbers to it-- how much is "balanced" in your opinion? Everything is gankable. The numbers required are only a reflection of how much alpha the ships have that youre using. Gankers dont sit on gates waiting to lock you up while you align, so Im not sure what youre getting at there.
I think its funny that the op has ignored every single one of my posts and instead moves on with, "you still havent given me any proof against this". The fact is that with implants and the proper fit, a freighter do the job perfectly. So what you have a little wasted space? Fit your ship according to the task at hand and use your resources available and you will find that you wont get ganked because you are hard to catch.
I will say it again and get ignored.. Youre just being lazy. Tell us the truth, what kind of implants do you use? I wanna see screenshots.
HTFU
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3076
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:22:50 -
[231] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Throughout all of this, still nobody has given a practical situation where this would he used instead of any of the solutions we have now......
... if you didn't have enough cargo to fill a freighter were to cheap to use a jf and to stubborn to use an orca
BLOPS Hauler
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Iain Cariaba
3195
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:33:57 -
[232] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:also i don't think you have given a valid reason why a single player should be able on his own to fend against 19+ Why should I give a valid reason for a point you dragged out in the first place? You tell me why you think this should be so, cause I for one don't think it should. Simple truth is it can't fend against even 1 opponent; it has no guns. You can throw 278 ships at it and lose them all- as soon as you engage you lose your ship. Whether you blow it up or not. With the numbers I gave you wouldn't even need 19 to gank it. You also failed to detail the nature of said ships. Taloses? Vexors? Thrashers? Eventually, it'll come down to how much ISK you're willing to throw at it and then maybe you can start working on an argument towards the point you long to make. Is 19 a magical balance number? Would 12 be okay? Why not 42? Are you perhaps entitled to blow stuff up-- and how long should I align to give your guys ample time to take point because god forbid I might be too fast for your 800mm scanres? ..... I don't know what you want me to say. You want to gank. I get it. Now stick some numbers to it-- how much is "balanced" in your opinion? If you were even .00001% as organized as the various highsec ganking groups, you and your hauling buddies would have near 100% safety in highsec.
Why do you need a new ship when you apparently cannot even use the ones already provided?
Another news flash, the high end content of EvE is not intended to be solo'd. Whether or not you choose to believe it, when you use the largest craft available for whatever purpose, you're into the high end content area.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Faylee Freir
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
302
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:40:05 -
[233] - Quote
This must be another stealth nerf ganking plz thread because it isnt making much sense.
Also having more than one account is almost required in many areas of eve. How many super or titan pilots do you know that only have 1 account? What about carrier pilots? Rorqual pilots (those exist????)? So why is you flying your capital class hauling vehicle any different? Sure you dont require a cyno like the others listed or even like a JF pilot does, but literally all you need are a proper fit, some implants, and an alt in a vigil fleet issue or something of that nature. Its not that its a bar of entry for anyone wanting to play eve, but its been this way forever...
You either make friends that can help you or you go the self-sufficient route and have alts. Can we lock this thread? Smells bad in here.
HTFU
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3077
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:42:01 -
[234] - Quote
i would like to point out its not just capitals that need support all larger ships do
BLOPS Hauler
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Faylee Freir
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
302
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:50:44 -
[235] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:i would like to point out again its not just capitals that need support all larger ships do I agree. I was just making a point since freighters and jump freighters ARE capital ships.
HTFU
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3078
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Posted - 2016.09.11 02:59:41 -
[236] - Quote
Faylee Freir wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:i would like to point out again its not just capitals that need support all larger ships do I agree. I was just making a point since freighters and jump freighters ARE capital ships.
Oh no haven't you heard there is now an EHP minimum before you become capital
BLOPS Hauler
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7236
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Posted - 2016.09.11 03:08:10 -
[237] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules2. Be respectful toward others at all times.The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others. 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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