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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1083
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Posted - 2016.09.07 17:31:17 -
[31] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:I don't understand why most people think that i'm writing this post, coz i've been dropped. I'm warried about cyno, coz people getting dropped and if not leaving eve, then they just quit flying solo or small scale. and we meet fleets in space rarely. Yes my butt is hurt about that. I'd like to fly in space full of pilots and ships that making content, but instead i see only some known camp systems where people don't even chase me further when i move next systems. so right. i think that cyno is a part of things that make eve boring. i don't suggest to kill a cyno system. but make role ships that can use it without penalties i wrote above. thats all. somebody say that solo or small scale pvpers are not that type of players who deserve attention of devs. but this is a type of players who make a daily content in eve. big fights do not happen every day, so think about it once again.
The people who think high sec ganking is un-balanced are people who haven't given it much thought or played it from the other side.
The same exact thing is true here. Obey a few simple rules and you dramatically decrease the odds of being cyno'ed on.
A)Do not get scrammed, fly nano.
B)Bring ECM
D)Do not take obvious bait.
E)Fly things that plainly aren't worth the drop.
F)Counter-Drop. If you do not have the resources/SP/ISK, there are plenty of people who do. EvE is a social game, and there are plenty of people hungry for KMs that you can work with and befriend.
Cynos provide a way to really dumpster gate camps and break their otherwise perfect intel, where this would not be possible otherwise. This partially applies to nullsec too, where intel is already hilariously strong and eliminates all risk.
You could not change cyno mechanics unless you changed local mechanics. WHs don't need cynos, but they also do not have free, perfect, 100% reliable intel at no effort cost.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3043
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Posted - 2016.09.07 18:05:45 -
[32] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:
D)Do not take obvious bait.
Quote:
D)Do not take obvious bait.
Quote:
D)Do not take obvious bait.
Quote:
D)Do not take obvious bait.
^
the amount of ppl who rage when the attack a proc with no miner and we drop on them
Citadel worm hole tax
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5203
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Posted - 2016.09.07 20:57:50 -
[33] - Quote
FT Cold wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:How are they unbalanced? If you don't want to be hot dropped but down a jammer Don't be a demagogue, there are wider implications to this module than protecting a ratting system from hot drops. Think for one second before you write and imagine that EVE existed to this point without cynos, and in the next patch they're going to be introduced. How do you think they'd be received?
You can't even be arsed to write down why you think cynos are "broken".
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5203
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Posted - 2016.09.07 20:59:30 -
[34] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:I don't understand why most people think that i'm writing this post, coz i've been dropped. I'm warried about cyno, coz people getting dropped and if not leaving eve, then they just quit flying solo or small scale.
Oh shut up. I am so sick and tired of BadsGäó using the declining player numbers to promote their own agenda.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
35
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Posted - 2016.09.07 21:09:32 -
[35] - Quote
i see lots of people raging about cyno nerf idea. probably the lovers of cyno warfare |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1083
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Posted - 2016.09.07 21:25:22 -
[36] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:i see lots of people raging about cyno nerf idea. probably the lovers of cyno warfare
Cynos are horrible gameplay. I say that as a person who has lit their fair share of them.
The only thing worse than cynos is local. One mandates the others existence.
Stop worrying and love the Hotdrop.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
823
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Posted - 2016.09.07 22:59:15 -
[37] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:lol the guy thinks an MMO should be balanced around solo and one built around rewarding working with others no less i just look at ONLINE stats for eve and see it dropping down. people quit playing eve so, you can think whatever you want but one day you'll face the problem that nothing to think about, coz only player in this game will be you and your friend sitting in titan. both.. in one. lol and all you'll be able to drop is an NPC in asteroid belt
That, if we give the other threads some credit, is empire bears leaving because of mean gankers. Empire gankers don't have cyno drops. Drops in 0.0 and sometimes low sec part of the package tour out there.
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FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
83
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Posted - 2016.09.07 23:16:50 -
[38] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Teddy KGB wrote:i see lots of people raging about cyno nerf idea. probably the lovers of cyno warfare Cynos are horrible gameplay. I say that as a person who has lit their fair share of them. The only thing worse than cynos is local. One mandates the others existence. Stop worrying and love the Hotdrop.
This guy gets it. You get a gold star friendo. |
Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
35
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Posted - 2016.09.08 00:12:36 -
[39] - Quote
people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
409
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Posted - 2016.09.08 02:07:19 -
[40] - Quote
FT Cold wrote:The cyno is never going to be balanced. It's a broken mechanic that can never be fixed and no amount of jump or spool up timers will help. The solution would have been to never implement jump drives for anything other than jump freighters, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back. CCP doesn't have the grapes to make any more changes to it or related mechanics so you'd better get used to it. I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.
How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know. |
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1085
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Posted - 2016.09.08 05:55:59 -
[41] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere.
Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest.
There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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GROUND XERO
Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem.
4
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Posted - 2016.09.08 07:17:54 -
[42] - Quote
Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working! Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can-¦t bring that on a roam :_)! |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3049
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Posted - 2016.09.08 11:06:33 -
[43] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote: I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.
How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.
this is what it looks like from the end of the person getting dropped... this is not how setting up a drop works
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3049
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Posted - 2016.09.08 11:07:48 -
[44] - Quote
GROUND XERO wrote:Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working! Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can-¦t bring that on a roam :_)!
so like a cyno jammer.... that any ship can carry... yeah be great if we could get one of them
oh right silly me for some reason you can't bring that on a roam
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1085
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Posted - 2016.09.08 14:26:29 -
[45] - Quote
GROUND XERO wrote:Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working! Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can-¦t bring that on a roam :_)!
Poitot, save us.
Do you not realize this would actually break the game? This idea comes up every so often. It would become a game of who can cyno in first and use the anti-cyno ray before the other guy. I.E. wait till I get my caps/blops on you, then prevent you from lighting, removing entirely the threat of a counter-drop. It may not seem like they did it well, but the Cyno Inhibitor deployable is actually well designed because of the delay in anchoring - if there was no delay, one could drop the house on you, immediately anchor it, and you could never, ever counter drop my fleet.
I listed several counters to cynos a few posts back. I feel as if you actually played the game from the cyno-er and not the cyno-ee point of view, you would quite quickly realize they are not an I-win button, and that they are quite frankly the only thing that prevents the total stagnation of content due to how oppressively reliable local is.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
40
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Posted - 2016.09.08 19:38:29 -
[46] - Quote
i still cannot understand what are you talking about. nobody suggested to kill a cyno system in EVE. I say it is time to re-lay ability of instant cyno to a special ships with a special role bonus, but let other ships still use a cyno for their regular tasks like jump freighter or any other cap moving.
As i sayed let it be combat force recon ships like^ Lachesis Curse Huggin Rook |
Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
40
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Posted - 2016.09.08 19:46:52 -
[47] - Quote
And don't tell me about that amazing planning and preparations of a drop operation. Regular situation looks like this% - Home local - 100 - Carebear spot gang of 1-3 ships - Carebear fit a cyno - 1 minute of gathering on a titan 5-10 ships + carrier scooping its fighters in sanctum - point, cyno up, enjoy |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1088
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Posted - 2016.09.08 20:08:04 -
[48] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:And don't tell me about that amazing planning and preparations of a drop operation. Regular situation looks like this% - Home local - 100 - Carebear spot gang of 1-3 ships - Carebear fit a cyno - 1 minute of gathering on a titan 5-10 ships + carrier scooping its fighters in sanctum - point, cyno up, enjoy
Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.
I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
40
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Posted - 2016.09.08 21:36:48 -
[49] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.
I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.
So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3051
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Posted - 2016.09.08 22:48:02 -
[50] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:
Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.
I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.
So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what?
just one example of a way to avoid it.
another is to learn to check kbs to see if someone is likely to cyno
Citadel worm hole tax
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Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
42
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Posted - 2016.09.08 23:18:18 -
[51] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: just one example of a way to avoid it.
another is to learn to check kbs to see if someone is likely to cyno
i always like to see people with 12% dangerous factor on kb teaching me how to play eve. but ok, let's say i don't know how to use kbs and now under your strict guidance i finally learned how to use it. now tell me please how it will increase the number of people in eve and pilots in space? |
Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
42
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Posted - 2016.09.08 23:37:59 -
[52] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Teddy KGB wrote:people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere. Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest. There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor. Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1091
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Posted - 2016.09.09 00:49:39 -
[53] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:
Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.
I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.
So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what?
Absolutely not, but for many reasons, if you are going to hunt in deep sov where people have drops ready to go for home defense, as well as other non-jumpy defenders, nano gangs give you the best chance of making it out alive as well as finding things before they can get safe. Different tools, different fleets, for different types of space.
When blopsing sov, same deal applies; light stuff that is hard to catch but can catch other stuff easily . Stratios and bombers do the job just fine, and are harder to catch than big slow blops BS.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1091
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Posted - 2016.09.09 00:54:57 -
[54] - Quote
Teddy KGB wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Teddy KGB wrote:people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere. Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest. There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor. Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy
Yeah, roaming in battleship is terrible, because battleships can't really...roam. There's your problem. If you want to fly a battleship and find a fight, you have to stick to very populated areas at the right time of day. The warp speed is far more detrimental to BS seeing play than cynos.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Teddy KGB
Crushing Power of Gallente
42
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Posted - 2016.09.09 01:17:06 -
[55] - Quote
Quote:Rarity of any ship is a problem. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
731
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Posted - 2016.09.09 01:33:23 -
[56] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:FT Cold wrote:The cyno is never going to be balanced. It's a broken mechanic that can never be fixed and no amount of jump or spool up timers will help. The solution would have been to never implement jump drives for anything other than jump freighters, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back. CCP doesn't have the grapes to make any more changes to it or related mechanics so you'd better get used to it. I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic. How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know. Just introduce a sensor recalibration like we have for cloaks. Still not sure how cynos have escaped a balance pass yet. Don't get me wrong I like cynos, but instant teleportation and the ability to lock and attack straight after is clearly not great game design.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
84
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Posted - 2016.09.09 01:52:09 -
[57] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote: I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.
How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.
Get rid of local in null, introduce delayed local to lowsec, and give black ops battleships a covops cloak. Reduce their build cost by 50% to offset the increased risk they face by having to traverse gates. From there you could go a few routes. Buff their stats greatly, give them the 'cannot receive remote assistance' attribute, and focus them around active tanks to keep them from scaling out of control for fleets. Alternatively, keep their stats low and give the nestor a covops cloak and let the cloaky fleet become a thing. Buff capital warp speed to 1.8 au/sec and shave 10-15% off their align times. That's how you do it. |
FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
84
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Posted - 2016.09.09 01:57:26 -
[58] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Teddy KGB wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Teddy KGB wrote:people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere. Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest. There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor. Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy Yeah, roaming in battleship is terrible, because battleships can't really...roam. There's your problem. If you want to fly a battleship and find a fight, you have to stick to very populated areas at the right time of day. The warp speed is far more detrimental to BS seeing play than cynos.
You can't cover much ground, but battleships do attract plenty of attention, which isn't always a bad thing. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
409
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Posted - 2016.09.09 04:24:36 -
[59] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Rawketsled wrote:FT Cold wrote:The cyno is never going to be balanced. It's a broken mechanic that can never be fixed and no amount of jump or spool up timers will help. The solution would have been to never implement jump drives for anything other than jump freighters, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back. CCP doesn't have the grapes to make any more changes to it or related mechanics so you'd better get used to it. I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic. How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know. Just introduce a sensor recalibration like we have for cloaks. Still not sure how cynos have escaped a balance pass yet. Don't get me wrong I like cynos, but instant teleportation and the ability to lock and attack straight after is clearly not great game design. It's still boring two-click-teleportation. Now you've just added a mandatory step of wait and don't do anything fun.
Brain Fart Idea: Give people a way to configure two aspects of the jump: the precision (like what happens with wormholes), and the speed (instant, or with some magic interplanetary traveltime) and scale Fatigue accordingly. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3052
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Posted - 2016.09.09 05:09:43 -
[60] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote: It's still boring two-click-teleportation.
again you have never been a part of one of these gangs have you?
besides people who regularly drop are good.... they are the easiest ones to bait out and get shiny loot from
Citadel worm hole tax
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