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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2288
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Posted - 2016.09.13 20:12:14 -
[31] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:The Drifters have so far only attacked your empire and people. They pose an existential threat to your people, not mine. However, if they begin aggressive operations in Matari space you can rest assured that I and others will deal with them.
Ms. Rella?
It's not just the Empire and State that are involved in this work. We've got independents and FDU, as well. We even get at least one from Ushra'Khan.
To see why, though, it's not really enough for us to just try to explain. Some things words and static images can't convey very well.
So-- come with us? Please?
The next ARC Drifter operation is on the 17th at 2000 hours UVT. Come with us; see the Hive, and the Nexus. If you still believe the Drifters are no threat, after, I won't have a lot more to say. But you ought to see.
Everyone should. |
Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2016.09.14 03:09:47 -
[32] - Quote
Just wanted to drop by to add my voice to the chorus of congrats to all pilots and support staff involved. Smashing good show! Definitely an example of bravery and skill. Kudos!
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6360
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 05:00:27 -
[33] - Quote
I mean, honestly it is pretty good money for the investment of time to boot.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Matar Ronin
1989
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Posted - 2016.10.04 16:03:44 -
[34] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:At approximately 00:00 hours, 118.09.08, an 8-ship SFRIM cruiser fleet (plus command ship-based warfare link support) under command of Evocatus Alizabeth set out for Ardishapur Prime. Our intention was a test run for purely offensive operations against Vigilant Tyrannos forces on their home territory using the "heavy weasel" doctrine in hopes of suppressing Drifter activity ahead of the impending coronation of Empress Catiz. We entered Drifter space through one of their manufactured wormholes, infiltrated the Sentinel Hive, and destroyed the Hikanta Tyrannos in the Hive chamber, suffering no losses.
On our return to the exit wormhole at approximately 01:00 hours, our support command ship pilot reported Vigilant Tyrannos battleships on the Ardishapur Prime side. Since the fleet had encountered no such warships aside from the Hikanta and the Drifters seemed to be moving slowly enough to pose a threat to our command ship, as it would decloak before they were likely to leave, the order was given to jump through and engage.
We engaged and destroyed the Drifters, and took what we could from the wrecks. However, as we prepared to depart, two additional Drifters arrived just as an attempted fleet warp failed. One of our three logistics craft, flown by FC, along with three of our five attack craft, warped out, while Drifters tackled and engaged the logistics vessel piloted by Neophyte Daisha Voluptia. The remaining attack ships, including Directrix Lunarisse Daphiti, tackled and tracking-disrupted the attacking Drifters while the third logistics vessel, flown by Adept Eternal Guardian, provided repair to Neophyte Voluptia, stabilizing her defenses until the Evocatus and the rest of our attack wing could return to the field. We then engaged and destroyed the Drifters.
During the fight, a wing of four Circadian Seekers appeared on the field and engaged us. Having dealt with the Drifters, we immediately turned our weapons on these, only to be almost immediately engaged by another two Drifters, which we destroyed, but which were immediately replaced by another two Drifters and a further four Seekers. These Drifters, also, fell, but once again, engaging the Seekers drew further Drifter reinforcements.
With our pilots tiring after nearly half an hour of continuous fighting, the Evocatus gave the order to engage and destroy all remaining Seekers before dealing with the Drifters. No additional Drifters appeared to protect or avenge the Seekers, and our fleet was able to destroy the final two Vigilant Tyrannos, loot the field, and withdraw.
SFRIM pilots involved:
Lord Ibrahim Tash-Murkon (DPS) Lord Lucas Raholan (DPS) Directrix Lunarisse Daphiti (DPS) Evocatus Alizabeth (FC) (logistics) Adept Eternal Guardian (logistics) Neophyte Daisha Voluptia (logistics) Legionarius Jennifer Starfall (DPS) Peregrinans Aria Jenneth (DPS)
Other pilots involved:
Taisia Zaytseva (warfare link support)
Hostile forces destroyed at Ardishapur Prime:
Vigilant Tyrannos battleships x10 Circadian Seekers x8
Losses suffered:
None. Quite impressive. Pilot Jenneth I recently tried a beta version of a ship fitting program called "Ghost" it will be available cluster wide next month. You might find it very useful in refining your fits prior to undocking.
Perhaps you could share, even if only by email the fits you have found to be most effective against Drifters. Our usual method to get zero losses is to avoid Vigilant Tyrannos battleships when their number exceeds five, it would be quite nice to blow them to debris instead of withdrawing.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8718
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Posted - 2016.10.04 16:40:13 -
[35] - Quote
Apologies for cutting in, but a few details. In the first place, the engagement was sequential; pairs of Drifters were constantly reinforcing the area, and so the battle, while strenuous, was centered around controlled engagement of those successive pairs.
The doctrine used was the 'Heavy Weasel' doctrine developed by Alizabeth, as described here; you may also wish to note the basic description of Influx doctrines here, which are capable of engaging up to a dozen Drifters simultaneously. Understandably, these are very general. Lastly, Alexander Priano presented before the Imperial assembly before the conclusion of the succession trials. While much of the information is speculative, you may find some details useful.
Now, quid pro quo. You seem to indicate you have a doctrine that may reliably, losslessly engage up to five Drifters. Even if it's in early development stages, do share? What sorts of ships do you use? Is skillwire implantation required? Is this under Hive system effects or in known space?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Alizabeth Vea
Hounds of Sarum
908
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:45:44 -
[36] - Quote
The full doctrine for Heavy Weasels can take on six Drifters pretty handily. If I could find them in squadron strength, I would give it a try. My question is where he's finding Drifters in groups over five.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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Persephone Alleile
Nocx Initiative Moist.
169
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:54:21 -
[37] - Quote
There's some high class wormhole systems where capsuleer activity has brought the attention of large groups of Drifters. I saw one C5 system patrolled by around 20 Drifter battleships. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
539
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:04:57 -
[38] - Quote
Persephone Alleile wrote:There's some high class wormhole systems where capsuleer activity has brought the attention of large groups of Drifters. I saw one C5 system patrolled by around 20 Drifter battleships. The ships in these patrols have different specifications from what we are used to see with Apollo and Artemis.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8719
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:06:04 -
[39] - Quote
It's theoretically possible to encounter a group of that size, if there are multiple unidentified wormholes in a system and the Drifters are given reason to interact as a single group. I'm not sure if they handle fleet command on a per-uiWH basis or a per-system basis.
Still, it's not common, hence my continued pointed curiosity about Matar Ronin's claims on doctrine and tactics.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Alizabeth Vea
Hounds of Sarum
911
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:03:36 -
[40] - Quote
Matar Ronin: I'll believe you have a Drifter killing method when I see more proof than just words on the IGS.
As for now, you're all bark and no bite.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2861
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:11:50 -
[41] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Matar Ronin: I'll believe you have a Drifter killing method when I see more proof than just words on the IGS.
As for now, you're all bark and no bite. I believe your assumption about him is absolutely correct, ma'am. The reason might be a banal CDS.
In any way, I also believe you to be the most experienced and efficient Drifter fighter. Your authority in questions regarding Drifter menace is indisputable.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Alizabeth Vea
Hounds of Sarum
913
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:20:45 -
[42] - Quote
Thank you, Kim-haani. However, I must also give credit to the pilots that have flown with me. They fought like lions.
If you could get along with Arrendis for a night, and assuming she could get along with you, I would happily take you on a fleet.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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Matar Ronin
2020
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Posted - 2016.10.04 23:42:16 -
[43] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Matar Ronin: I'll believe you have a Drifter killing method when I see more proof than just words on the IGS.
As for now, you're all bark and no bite. Perhaps you would be so kind as to reference what Drifter killing method you seem to infer I proposed on IGS.
I believe I simply offered my experience at a using new tool for fitting ships that I have tried in its beta state and thought it might be useful to other pilots who are going up against Drifters. Oh my how horrible of me.
Somehow my saying that an engagement that had no casualties when destroying multiple Drifters was impressive and a better option then withdrawing when numbers climb to five or above as we do, has been twisted into some claim of me being an ace Drifter killer. The jump from what I said and the reaction is a leap into the wildest imaginings possible.
I can not control the wild baseless imagination of other pilots. In fact it is all too common for pilots to jump to a conclusion, without fact number one, and then post an angry retort to whatever transgression that only ever existed in their mind.
Perhaps you might consider what has sparked your apparent anger? Could it be my constant trumpeting of my superior combat skills against capsuleers? But wait, I do not do that. I am an industrialist, in a small corp and very proud of it. Could it be my politics? I have put them aside for efforts regarding the Drifter threat, it seems like not everyone has been able to do so.
A careful review of my comments in regard to Drifters will reveal no actual barking or biting, unless the reviewer is predisposed to saying that against their political adversaries. Which really is of little surprise.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8722
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Posted - 2016.10.04 23:54:26 -
[44] - Quote
Mr. Ronin;
In brief, let me put my position as this: you have indicated that you are currently testing a lossless method of combating Drifters, to be revealed at some point at the future. You're asking for exact technical schematics of the method used by SFRIM in combat, an Amarr loyalist organization.
Either we all take you on faith, or we do as we're doing: ask you to put proof to words.
So, briefly said: you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
But in that order.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Matar Ronin
2021
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Posted - 2016.10.05 00:04:19 -
[45] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Ronin;
In brief, let me put my position as this: you have indicated that you are currently testing a lossless method of combating Drifters, to be revealed at some point at the future. You're asking for exact technical schematics of the method used by SFRIM in combat, an Amarr loyalist organization.
Either we all take you on faith, or we do as we're doing: ask you to put proof to words.
So, briefly said: you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
But in that order. Please post a copy of the claim you say "I" made regarding a loseless method of combating Drifters. I would find it illuminating.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2402
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Posted - 2016.10.05 00:41:26 -
[46] - Quote
Matar RoninPlease post a copy of the claim you say "I" made regarding a loseless method of combating Drifters. I would find it illuminating. [/quote wrote:
Ms. Priano might have interpreted this passage in that way:
[quote=Matar Ronin]Somehow my saying that an engagement that had no casualties when destroying multiple Drifters was impressive and a better option then withdrawing when numbers climb to five or above as we do [...]
Emphasis mine.
This could (as I, also, did until you seemed to indicate you hadn't meant to say such a thing) be taken to mean that you have a method of destroying four or fewer Drifters at once without losses. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2458
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:53:22 -
[47] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Matar Ronin: I'll believe you have a Drifter killing method when I see more proof than just words on the IGS.
As for now, you're all bark and no bite. Perhaps you would be so kind as to reference what Drifter killing method you seem to infer I proposed on IGS.
Matar Ronin wrote:Our usual method to get zero losses is to avoid Vigilant Tyrannos battleships when their number exceeds five, it would be quite nice to blow them to debris instead of withdrawing.
That implies you have a method for killing them when they are in numbers up to five. It may not have been your intent to imply it, but it does. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8722
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Posted - 2016.10.05 00:59:20 -
[48] - Quote
Mr. Ronin, please understand that I am not seeking to insult you. I am honestly interested in any combat methods you use. Even if they're imperfect, additional intelligence is useful. Please note, however, that your defensiveness when asked for further information does not put your claims in a positive light.
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Matar Ronin
2026
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Posted - 2016.10.05 01:14:34 -
[49] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Ronin, please understand that I am not seeking to insult you. I am honestly interested in any combat methods you use. Even if they're imperfect, additional intelligence is useful. Please note, however, that your defensiveness when asked for further information does not put your claims in a positive light.
No insult taken. I understand the mentality.
For me the fundamental difference is when I read someone had performed so well against a shared threat to the entire New Eden Cluster my initial reaction was to be impressed, tell them so, and inquire as to how exactly they did it.
Clearly that is not acceptable to you and many of your friends here.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8722
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Posted - 2016.10.05 01:20:50 -
[50] - Quote
And you'll find the public documentation in the links provided above.
Proprietary documentation was requested at the same time that you indicated you had a workable method as well, which is what spawned all this.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2291
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Posted - 2016.10.05 01:41:34 -
[51] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Ms. Rella?
It's not just the Empire and State that are involved in this work. We've got independents and FDU, as well. We even get at least one from Ushra'Khan.
To see why, though, it's not really enough for us to just try to explain. Some things words and static images can't convey very well.
So-- come with us? Please?
The next ARC Drifter operation is on the 17th at 2000 hours UVT. Come with us; see the Hive, and the Nexus. If you still believe the Drifters are no threat, after, I won't have a lot more to say. But you ought to see.
Everyone should.
Thanks for the invitation Pilot Jenneth but I can't trust that your imperial friends wouldn't attack me on sight due to Gradient's current status of fighting alongside the TLF or the attitudes of pilots like Kim, Vea or Tash-Murkon.
Maybe at some point in the future if you can gather more Gallentean or Matari pilots I'll join.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2461
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Posted - 2016.10.05 01:50:59 -
[52] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Vea
Maybe at some point in the future if you can gather more Gallentean or Matari pilots I'll join.
I fly with Alizabeth regularly. And I have for years. The efforts against the Drifters know no nationality. |
Alizabeth Vea
Hounds of Sarum
920
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 02:05:23 -
[53] - Quote
Firstly, ARC is not an Amarr organization. They are Caldari. ARC is happy to take anyone and is very good at teaching new pilots how to survive in Hives.
My group is more exclusive and based on who I know and wish to fly with. Right now I would not look to recruit you into it, but that might change in the future. I will say that I am looking for maximum effect against the Drifters and I am not too picky about how that is accomplished. If someone is killing Drifters, then we're friends for the day.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8722
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Posted - 2016.10.05 02:49:28 -
[54] - Quote
While IKAME is Caldari-aligned, ARC is not decisively so. TYRIN is a part of the ARC coalition, as is SFRIM and Signal Cartel. That said, we do stress remaining an open organization, accepting any capable pilot who will follow orders and wishes to contribute to the exploration of the Hive systems and other targets as they arise.
That said, as for Gallente and Matari pilots, Ms. Rella, Khaprice and Elmund Egivand have both flown with ARC. You will not be fired on by fleet mates. A bit of adventurous flying may be required to move from our staging point, but we're perfectly willing to assist in staging vessels. In other words, if you're willing to fight with us, we're willing to have you.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1627
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Posted - 2016.10.05 02:54:20 -
[55] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:While IKAME is Caldari-aligned, ARC is not decisively so. TYRIN is a part of the ARC coalition, as is SFRIM and Signal Cartel. That said, we do stress remaining an open organization, accepting any capable pilot who will follow orders and wishes to contribute to the exploration of the Hive systems and other targets as they arise.
That said, as for Gallente and Matari pilots, Ms. Rella, Khaprice and Elmund Egivand have both flown with ARC. You will not be fired on by fleet mates. A bit of adventurous flying may be required to move from our staging point, but we're perfectly willing to assist in staging vessels.
Just mind you. Staging ground is inside Amarr space so if your standings with them is -5, you can expect to be shot at by the Imperial Navy after a minute of floating around in their space. As such, do not undock until you received the instructions to and stay mobile until you get to lowsec, where the operations take place in.
Doctrine ships are all cruisers so this shouldn't present a problem.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
756
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Posted - 2016.10.05 18:52:41 -
[56] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Thanks for the invitation Pilot Jenneth but I can't trust that your imperial friends wouldn't attack me on sight due to Gradient's current status of fighting alongside the TLF or the attitudes of pilots like Kim, Vea or Tash-Murkon.
Maybe at some point in the future if you can gather more Gallentean or Matari pilots I'll join.
In the setting of anti-Drifter operations I count anybody in fleet, regardless of background or politics, as a respected ally. I would never act aggressively or even impolitely to a pilot while we were hunting. It is against ARC's policies, it is an unsanctioned act under SFRIM directives, it is antithetical to the goal of countering the Drifter menace, and, most importantly, it would be damned ungentalmanly.
My attitude on the subject is one I think shared universally by participants in these fleets.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Matar Ronin
2041
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Posted - 2016.10.05 19:30:54 -
[57] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:While IKAME is Caldari-aligned, ARC is not decisively so. TYRIN is a part of the ARC coalition, as is SFRIM and Signal Cartel. That said, we do stress remaining an open organization, accepting any capable pilot who will follow orders and wishes to contribute to the exploration of the Hive systems and other targets as they arise.
That said, as for Gallente and Matari pilots, Ms. Rella, Khaprice and Elmund Egivand have both flown with ARC. You will not be fired on by fleet mates. A bit of adventurous flying may be required to move from our staging point, but we're perfectly willing to assist in staging vessels. In other words, if you're willing to fight with us, we're willing to have you. I am a bit perplexed here pilot Priano. If I am willing to fight with you how could I effectively do that when you refuse to share fitting doctrine?
I think I see that pilot Vea has a separate group that uses perhaps a different secret private fitting doctrine but how would someone on the outside know that in advance?
As a CEO I have learned that sometimes institutional knowledge is confused with common knowledge. It is easy to think things we know clearly are known to everyone else, that is frequently and I must emphasis this, far too frequently not the case.
The inner workings of how ARC functions with it's supporters might be very clear to all those actively involved, but it is not so clear to people on the outside.
I post this not because I think you'd ever actually fly with me, but because the shared goal of making sure the Drifters do not one day overwhelm the New Eden Cluster is extremely vital.
Questions asked by outsiders should be answered when possible and not viewed as espionage without fact based reasons to classify them as so. Other pilots may have questions and now might not ask them or effectively join in the fight against Drifters because they are not a part of your popularity clique. I think that is not what you intend but it is a very real possible outcome.
Perhaps you might consider posting a policy statement about who can and who can't participate. What areas are for public access and what areas are not. Like fits as an example.
Sometimes when you state that all supporters will be welcomed people might believe you mean it only to find out there are some political points of view you find incompatible with your operations.
Quote:Ibrahim Tash-Murkon In the setting of anti-Drifter operations I count anybody in fleet, regardless of background or politics, as a respected ally. I doubt this pilot and I would agree on many things politically, but I would take him at his word on flying in fleet combat with him until he proved that I couldn't.
I think many people believe that is the current policy of ARC in terms of fleet participation, the fact that it is not should be made clear so others do not make the mistake of expecting a policy that does not officially exist.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8728
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Posted - 2016.10.05 19:44:26 -
[58] - Quote
Matar Ronin, for the longest time we had a great deal of success using Caracal/Scythe doctrines. While not lossless, it is economical.
That said, while you are grumbling about a clique, we're advertising a public fleet and inviting you to join us.
If public is too exclusive for you, even with an explicit and direct invitation, then there's nothing I can do to help.
And, to be honest, that's on you.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1406
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Posted - 2016.10.05 19:47:13 -
[59] - Quote
Ronin, the arc's doctrine fits are on their channels motd. It's basically a rapid light missile launcher caracal or a scythe (pretty sure, I grabbed a caracal for the next fleet in my operating time). |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8728
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 19:54:20 -
[60] - Quote
I'd thought to mention that, Deitra, but I think Matar Ronin is intent on being offended.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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