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Nominix
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:24:05 -
[1] - Quote
As long as I can remember people have been asking for a true PVE environment in EVE and always it has been flatly rejected. The reasons for it could fill a book and have caused countless arguments across the forums for many years.
Well - maybe now its time to start looking at a PVE environment. PVP across all games, not just EVE, - the interest for it is simply waning. Quite a number of games are seeing drastic and dramatic declines in PVP populations and certainly EVE has also seen such declines. Since EVE's heyday it has lost nearly half of its active playerbase. I used to log in at peak times to see well over 50k players.....be very lucky to see 30k at peak anymore. Thats a huge decline. So maybe its finally time to take a good look at a PVE environment for EVE.
Disclaimer - This is a high level conceptual discussion of what PVE integration might look like. It will be short on details purposely.
Some rules
A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment. It should allow for all aspects of EVE online to be available to everyone regardless of SP - PVP being the only exception.
Now how would it be possible to integrate PVE into EVE without adversely affecting PVP?
My answer --------- make the areas of PVE only " temporary and competitive".
Imagine an American football field. If the first 10 yards represents Eve as it is right now, this very moment, then allow exploration out to the 50 yard line. From the 10 to the 50 yard line is open to everyone and there is no pvp. players are free to explore, setup bases, build infrastructure, discover new races, discover new techs and do all that Eve has to offer without pvp interference.
Now lets say, just as an example, we have 1000 players that rush in and start running missions for different factions within this space. And lets say that those 1000 players are running missions between the 10 and 20 yardlines. Some will be running for "Unsecure" factions and some will be running for "Secure" factions.
A score will be kept between the Secure and Unsecure factions and given x amount of time a check will be made. Whichever side has the highest score will push the security of this section of space in a direction. Example - Unsecure has a higher score when the check is made so the security of the space drops from "No PVP" to High sec. If unsecure manages to later on again keep a better score then the security is further pushed down to low sec. Now if Secure has a better score on the next check it will push the security back to highsec.
Now lets say, as another example, if you want to get all those goodies from all that conflict free space back to market you have to get into the inzone so you can "score" and get all your goods on the market.This means your going to need safe routes to get inside the 10 yardline and into whatever market you want to sell to. So itll be the mission runners that keep the lanes open and safe or closed and full of hostile activity. It doesnt have to be limited to mission running, being creative one can imagine a number of things that could affect the score of each side allowing everyone to participate in a way they enjoy and are comfortable with.
If you have this competitiveness going on in several areas with chokepoints then you can bring in pve players to a "type" of pvp, one in which they are comfortable with and can realistically be expected to participate in.
Something along these lines would allow for pve integration and a pve pilot project to be implemented without really disturbing the community. One can inject any number of rules and restrictions to keep things from getting out of hand and still have an incubator and test area to see what a real pve environment would look like. The big thing is that the number of players would skyrocket benefiting everyone.
Its time for PVE integration.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4742
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:42:20 -
[2] - Quote
Nominix wrote: Some rules
A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment. It should allow for all aspects of EVE online to be available to everyone regardless of SP - PVP being the only exception.
These three statements are completely contradictory to one another.
The game you are asking for is not eve, not even close. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:43:15 -
[3] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:-.- Personally, I'd like to see a little bit of Dev support for this thread..
A 'harrumph' or two would be nice. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
543
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:48:45 -
[4] - Quote
Don't mind me, I'm just leaving this reply here while I grab my popcorn to enjoy the ****storm that will be this thread. |
Nominix
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:58:32 -
[5] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nominix wrote: Some rules
A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment. It should allow for all aspects of EVE online to be available to everyone regardless of SP - PVP being the only exception.
These three statements are completely contradictory to one another. The game you are asking for is not eve, not even close.
Nah, its easily done. Im not asking for a game, its integration, picking up players CCP would otherwise looose. Its about increasing the playerbase while minimizing disturbance to the current community and allowing for a style of play that has been blacklisted for many years.
While those statements may sound contradictory, they are far from it. One just has to be a bit creative. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26777
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Posted - 2016.09.08 19:10:18 -
[6] - Quote
Nominix wrote:A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment.
Test server.
Most of the proceeds of PvE eventually end up on the market, which is very much a PvP environment. A safe environment for PvE would lead to PvE being incessantly farmed for profit via the market.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2282
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Posted - 2016.09.08 19:18:01 -
[7] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Don't mind me, I'm just leaving this reply here while I grab my popcorn to enjoy the ****storm that will be this thread.
I don't know, will it?
Some posts are just so pointlessly awful that it's hard to do much more than roll your eyes at them. This is one of those posts.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Nominix
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.09.08 19:25:17 -
[8] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Nominix wrote:A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment.
Most of the proceeds of PvE eventually end up on the market, which is very much a PvP environment. A safe environment for PvE would lead to PvE being incessantly farmed for profit via the market..
Yep it very well might. Its the biggest issue I see with integration. So safeguards would need to be implemented to preserve the economy. In my mind there are a number of ways to approach it and put those safeguards in place, but ultimately it would be up to the devs to decide what the best way to do this would be.
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
108
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Posted - 2016.09.08 20:17:34 -
[9] - Quote
The only way to completely segregate a PvE environment from affecting PvP is to have it make no ISK.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Paranoid Loyd
9543
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Posted - 2016.09.08 20:19:40 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, let's completely obliterate the economy!
There is a test server if you want to PVE in a bubble.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Dullahan Solo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2016.09.08 20:33:30 -
[11] - Quote
Christ, this again? |
Dullahan Solo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2016.09.08 20:47:12 -
[12] - Quote
Nominix wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Nominix wrote:A pve environment cannot or should not interfere with the current PVP environment. A pve environment should provide areas of space that are free from pvp as well as griefing and general harrasment.
Most of the proceeds of PvE eventually end up on the market, which is very much a PvP environment. A safe environment for PvE would lead to PvE being incessantly farmed for profit via the market.. Yep it very well might. Its the biggest issue I see with integration. So safeguards would need to be implemented to preserve the economy. In my mind there are a number of ways to approach it and put those safeguards in place, but ultimately it would be up to the devs to decide what the best way to do this would be.
You maybe wanna give a couple examples? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3508
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Posted - 2016.09.08 22:44:20 -
[13] - Quote
'pvp across all games is waning'
Lol Wat?
If you want to play in your own little world play on the test server. You certainly seem to live in your own world.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3052
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Posted - 2016.09.09 05:20:34 -
[14] - Quote
i always like the "pvp is killing eve, I have no real evidence but trust me" argument... it couldn't have anything to do with being a sub based mmo in an age when people don't want another bill
Citadel worm hole tax
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FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
682
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Posted - 2016.09.09 06:43:38 -
[15] - Quote
This cannot end wel...
I shouldnt light a spark...
But it would be funny...
GO
BACK
TO
WOW!!!
Well, i almost didnt do it... |
Bubba Freedom
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2016.09.09 06:55:58 -
[16] - Quote
If the issue keeps being posted, there's an issue. Instead of telling those of us that are advocating for this to go back to our own world, come out of yours and look around. |
Josh Sharvas
Antisocial.
0
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Posted - 2016.09.09 08:36:40 -
[17] - Quote
I'm sort of in the opposite camp. Eve doesn't have enough PvP, and that's a problem.
What I mean by this exactly is control. I hate that there is such vast amounts of territory that cannot be claimed. And that the "safeness" aspect also feels like it severely impacts on the potential dynamics of the game.
Not that I have the answers though.
But... If players could become mission agents. If players could run stations (Maybe Citadels take over?) and somehow influence their own system security status. If players could "hire" or run concorde somehow. (So big corps/alliances become factions unto themselves). If more players felt a part of the territory and resource wars and actively seeking corporate/alliance protection.
I feel the unyielding NPC aspects of the game actually have a negative effect on Eve's true potential. And the PvE environment must be completely influenced by PvP interaction. That is true integration and that would make the game more immersive for me.
I could be wrong, this is just what is running through my mind lately. |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2016.09.09 09:26:37 -
[18] - Quote
Personally I think it would be a huge impact on PvE if the Cosmos missions were easier to access. Because this is how I did my Cosmos missions and given the in game information available about them, I think the usual method is quite similar: - flying around randomly in space - finding a strange beacon and going there - interacting with the random character, who was giving me the mission without any warning that the simple interaction will result in a short-timed mission - opening the Wiki to see who this character is - after a few minutes of searching figuring out where to start the Cosmos chain
Seriously guys, am I the only one who wants to play this game without having the Wiki constantly open because vital game play information (like the starting point of the mission chain here) can't be figured out without periodically suspending the game to google around? |
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
91
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Posted - 2016.09.09 10:18:37 -
[19] - Quote
I dunno. It's just that the point to eve kinda was and is so that nobody is safe. I can agree it's limiting and menacing however the excitement is part of the game. It makes it exciting. If you run semi-bling mission runner probably nobody is going to care. So why make it pve only? Did you make someone angry at you so much that you need to change the game?
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
384
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Posted - 2016.09.09 10:23:44 -
[20] - Quote
Should CCP invest millions of dollars to build a theme park in the middle of their sandbox? Complete with "levels" so new players aren't interacting with experienced players? I don't think so. In Eve players and their interactions are the game - we are the content. There are plenty of PvE theme parks on the market for those who want that playstyle but there is only 1 Eve. It isn't for everybody but those of us who like it, like it a lot - I am speaking as an industrialist, my combat PvP interactions are as prey but less risk would mean less reward. I accept that.
In Eve we are interacting with other players whether we know it or not. Competition sets the price of the ore we mine and the mission loot we collect. Pirates affect the price of shipping. Destruction creates demand for the stuff we make.
Eve doesn't have a problem attracting new players. CCP Ghost told us a half million people tried this game last year. We collectively - not just CCP - need to do a better job of encouraging them to stay.
That said, PvE needs and is getting a revamp. CCP have been testing new AI over the past year or so with drifters, seekers and burners. They are experimenting with new formats. This will come together over time to create a more engaging experience but the AI will never be as engaging as a human opponent. |
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Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
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Posted - 2016.09.09 11:26:40 -
[21] - Quote
Bubba Freedom wrote:If the issue keeps being posted, there's an issue. Instead of telling those of us that are advocating for this to go back to our own world, come out of yours and look around. So if I go on to the forums of another MMO that I play, one that isn't as PvP focused, and along with my considerable number of guild mates keep starting threads demanding that the devs implement more PvP mechanics and full loot etc then that developer should change their game to suit my wants?
Get out.
I am Ralph's junk DNA.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3509
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Posted - 2016.09.09 12:55:26 -
[22] - Quote
Bubba Freedom wrote:If the issue keeps being posted, there's an issue. Instead of telling those of us that are advocating for this to go back to our own world, come out of yours and look around.
No it doesnt. It just means there are a lot of pompous arses out there who mistake their privilege to play the game as entitlement to dictate to devs that the game be transformed to suit their personal whim, and arguing with out right lies and dip-**** logic no less.
To hell with the fact that there are already games out there for these players that want their hand held already. To hell with the fact that thousands of other players enjoy this game as is. To hell with the fact you super-bears can get exactly what you want from the test server.
The core principle of eve is that its a full time pvp sandbox. Don't like it? Why the **** are you even here then?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3055
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Posted - 2016.09.09 13:50:31 -
[23] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:To hell with the fact you super-bears can get exactly what you want from the test server.
Holy **** you're right what the hell are they complaining about?
Also I think I'm in love with "super-bear"
Citadel worm hole tax
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
983
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Posted - 2016.09.09 14:16:29 -
[24] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Most of the proceeds of PvE eventually end up on the market, which is very much a PvP environment. A safe environment for PvE would lead to PvE being incessantly farmed for profit via the market. PvE is incessantly farmed for profits now and in all areas of space so how would the OP idea change this? |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
390
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Posted - 2016.09.09 15:22:23 -
[25] - Quote
Bubba Freedom wrote:If the issue keeps being posted, there's an issue. Instead of telling those of us that are advocating for this to go back to our own world, come out of yours and look around. I did. Without people trying to kill you(r character), this world falls flat.
A signature :o
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26780
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Posted - 2016.09.09 15:46:39 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Most of the proceeds of PvE eventually end up on the market, which is very much a PvP environment. A safe environment for PvE would lead to PvE being incessantly farmed for profit via the market. PvE is incessantly farmed for profits now and in all areas of space so how would the OP idea change this? Yes, PvE is being incessantly farmed for profit but at the moment there is always an element of risk associated with garnering those profits, that risk being that someone may come along and frak up your day while you're doing it; what the OP wants is to be able to garner that profit without any risk at all.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
824
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Posted - 2016.09.10 01:50:58 -
[27] - Quote
OP...this game is marketed and known for its open box pvp aspect. Unless by chance it picked up the one person who has never gamed in their life and they chose eve as their truly first game....or the rest lived lived under a very big rock, the pvp aspect is known.
Even my coworker more into console side knows this. Which is funny, I have tried to convert him. But he says eve is too cold. The punchline being he is one of those cherry picking cheap shot killers in the dark zones of the division loved so much in that game. He says this game too cold...I go wtf, really?
Rest. OP here is below os he basic build for a a nice quiet night of pve.
Tengu. Talon implants Sig Amp (II or sentient) SEBO (II or sentient) Dissolution Sequencer (skill level 5) Gravimetric sensors skill 5 AB NOT MWD props
Mix and match these to get a really low sig radius/sig strength ratio. At lowest levels you will not be found without a max skill CO, sisters gear, and virtue implants. Reduces probing in sites/ds by a huge amount really. Run d-scans and you can literally see the probes inch to you as they try, really hard, to get the 100 %lock. Put another way....barring bad luck and they drop right on top of first time out you will get ample time to gtfo out safe up if you want to.
This will work with other t3's...but they tend to pale to tengu (in empire, then can do better in wh's effect depending). Also avoid proteus in a drone setup. Avoid drones completely in fact. In the good old days of un-probable this was how you tried to find un-probable ships...the drone MWD sig bloom.
But but I mine whine. You all choose a method of isk making that requires no skill to find you. CBA to d-scan or probe gankers just have to go down the list of belts 1 by 1.... Where as even a BS in a mission pocket needs a prober to find. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1018
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Posted - 2016.09.11 03:18:15 -
[28] - Quote
Dullahan Solo wrote:Christ, this again?
Cannot even begin to fathom the number of times I've said this on a nearly daily basis coming here.
OP is literally asking for a different game.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Tragot Gomndor
Khanid's Damnation
85
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Posted - 2016.09.11 07:39:32 -
[29] - Quote
Well the reasons why numbers are declining are simple.
Eve is over 10 yrs old Automated multiboxing has been killed New people not staying
We or CCP cant change point 1 and 2. We can only try to change point 3.
Peoples will never stay because of PVE in this game. Its dull, its boring, and even in dangerous regions its only "hammer the dscan untill you warp to safety". Fleet PVE? Its just shoot tag 1 to 9 till everything is dead. Being able to STAY and fight back the PVP intruders are maybe the ONLY thing that adds some fun to PVE in eve.
Yes, PVE needs a maaaaassive overhaul, to make it anything fun. But not by instancing it.
NONONONONONO
TO
CAPS IN HIGHSEC
NO
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Captain Campion
Captain Campion Corporation 1
27
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Posted - 2016.09.11 11:31:03 -
[30] - Quote
Totally agree - the older I get, the less I care about PVP. Sometimes after a day of work I just want to carebear in peace. |
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