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Lugh Crow-Slave
3060
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Posted - 2016.09.10 07:23:43 -
[1] - Quote
I'm going to be honest i haven't talked this out much before hand.
With the prospect we can now bridge a mining fleet out to a field in ls or null sec opening up a new form of mining. the problem is the only options you have to get the ore back is to bridge the prospects to and from the belts or use a BR. do to the low cargo of a BR the amount you need per prospect makes it more profitable just to put that man power into HS hulks. Using the prospects to go back and forth is to slow as they need to wait out the fatigue again making that man power better spent mining in HS as that is simply more isk/hr particularly when you start to factor in the iso and ozone cost for either option. however an ore transport ship with as little as 30km3 ore hold would make these fleets viable.
basically i'm just sad that a more exciting option to mining is just not a good investment back on time spent. My corp still does it to break up the monotony but i think a ship like this would get more board miners out of HS even if its only for a few hrs
tl;dr Problem: when the prospect came out it inadvertently teased at a new form of game-play and while it is fun it is not profitable because not all the tools are there.
Solution: add in a Bridgeable ore hauler to make blops mining profitable.
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rivr Luzade
Viziam Amarr Empire
2725
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:00:35 -
[2] - Quote
I was about to suggest to put up a small POS with compression array, but they are going to go the way of the dodo soon. And Rorquals do not have the range of the BLOPS. And a Citadel just to compress ninja-mined ore is too bulky and time-intensive.
A small personal compression structure could be interesting, but it would potentially undermine the need for citadels, Rorquals on site and drilling/industry platforms. Guess I am out of arguments.
UI Improvement Collective
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:07:37 -
[3] - Quote
30k Covops hauler would be very overpowered because it has many uses other than hauling ore for a blops mining OP.
I don't mine so I don't pretend to have a solution. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3060
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:09:40 -
[4] - Quote
it would only have an ore hold and it does not need to have cov ops cloak just able to take a cov ops bridge so i'm not sure what else it would infringe on or break can you elaborate?
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
I misread the ore hold bit.
With that in mind it could revitalise more than just blops mining, it could help mining in low sec as well. Not a bad idea. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2680
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:32:36 -
[6] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:it would only have an ore hold and it does not need to have cov ops cloak just able to take a cov ops bridge so i'm not sure what else it would infringe on or break can you elaborate?
So, you would have a Kryos with the ability to use covert cynos that cannot fit a covert operations cloak? It seems like a very niche ship, but if there is a use for it, then by all means go for it.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:48:47 -
[7] - Quote
I don't think it really needs much more to be useful maybe a tractor bonus (keeping prospects far apart is a good idea with these ops for cloaky reasons)
BLOPS Hauler
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
984
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Posted - 2016.09.10 13:38:09 -
[8] - Quote
Not a fan of the tractor range bonus, the T2 tractor could cover a 40k diameter circle from a central point since the concern stated is keeping the prospects far enough apart to cloak I do not see any need for greater range. I would counter that with a bonus to tractor speed.
Overall I like the concept, it is not likely to get high sec miners out of high sec but I really do not care about that part, It would give the low and nul miners options other than going to high sec and that would not be a bad thing. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
824
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Posted - 2016.09.10 14:15:13 -
[9] - Quote
Would a balance caveat of a marked increase to mass be agreeable? I can see this idea and its looking like fleshed out it be nicet. Just needs some kind of "downside". So mass to make the blop work the bridge harder moving that mass seems reasonable to me. Would fall in line with them being bigger to carry more. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3072
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Posted - 2016.09.10 14:20:13 -
[10] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Would a balance caveat of a marked increase to mass be agreeable? I can see this idea and its looking like fleshed out it be nicet. Just needs some kind of "downside". So mass to make the blop work the bridge harder moving that mass seems reasonable to me. Would fall in line with them being bigger to carry more.
would depend if it gets too expensive that the mining doesn't cover it and if its agi gets to low that it still cant keep up with the rate the miners mine we will be right back where we started but in theory an added cost to bridge should not be an issue.
if that were the case it would need a small standard cargo hold to haul its own fuel other wise we are right back to needing the BR making the ship redundant
BLOPS Hauler
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
824
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Posted - 2016.09.10 14:42:50 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: would depend if it gets too expensive that the mining doesn't cover it and if its agi gets to low that it still cant keep up with the rate the miners mine we will be right back where we started(remember its not just belt to station. minimum its bridge, warp to station warp back to bridge, bridge and thats assuming your dumb enough to put one of the blops in the site.) but in theory an added cost to bridge should not be an issue.
if that were the case it would need a small standard cargo hold to haul its own fuel other wise we are right back to needing the BR making the ship redundant
Fair enough. I wasn't looking for oversized plated down brick tank of doom armour bs mass. Just a little to cover the added size and maybe some, but not too much, logistics headaches. You know, create the chance for oh crap miscalculated fuel, rush to get some and hope no roams swings by stuff. Kind of like when a carrier pilot didn't bring enough fuel. Makes the night fun for all sides sometimes. And not have it SSDD moving x ships, know the fuel needed since old hat, yawn, bridge up jump jump jump.
With this stuff going to empire and currently living their sure as hell don't want massive headaches becoming massive price spikes lol. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3072
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Posted - 2016.09.10 14:55:08 -
[12] - Quote
yeah higher than adv mass would not be a problem in that case and would make sense considering BRs already have reduced mass compared to recons and you could probably even go a bit over recon to around 21 where recons are 16-17 basicly a little over 2x a BR
BLOPS Hauler
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Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
412
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Posted - 2016.09.10 17:29:05 -
[13] - Quote
I would support this idea, its not like the other threads asking for haulers that do everything but specialized bays on a blockade runner, even as simple as an ore bay would be diverse, role specific and of course content and economic benefits accompany them as well.
My only question, and pardon me as i did just wake up and may have missed something is how to implement this idea. Would it be another ship entirely? Or perhaps just a slot that you fill with a certain module or subsystem that removes standard cargo in place of specialized cargo? And if option 2 how many specialized bays should be permitted?
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3072
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Posted - 2016.09.10 17:41:15 -
[14] - Quote
I would assume the easiest and cleanest way would just be a new ship... if t3s have taught us anything its that ccp can't balance modular ships. also with a modular bridge capable ship like this it would kind of make BRs pointless :/
BLOPS Hauler
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
164
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Posted - 2016.09.11 17:29:15 -
[15] - Quote
Another primae hull! \o/
Role bonus to jump fatigue for back and forths? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3080
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Posted - 2016.09.11 17:34:08 -
[16] - Quote
It would have to have the reduction or it would be unable to keep up with hauling. depending on the cargo hold it was given however it could probably work with the 75% reduction rather than 90%
BLOPS Hauler
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
460
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Posted - 2016.09.12 07:45:17 -
[17] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:it would only have an ore hold and it does not need to have cov ops cloak just able to take a cov ops bridge so i'm not sure what else it would infringe on or break can you elaborate? So, you would have a Kryos with the ability to use covert cynos that cannot fit a covert operations cloak? It seems like a very niche ship, but if there is a use for it, then by all means go for it. Isn't it the Miasmos that has the Ore Bay in the T1 Haulers?
Thus making this new ship logically a T2 version of the Miasmos? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3087
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Posted - 2016.09.12 09:23:54 -
[18] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:it would only have an ore hold and it does not need to have cov ops cloak just able to take a cov ops bridge so i'm not sure what else it would infringe on or break can you elaborate? So, you would have a Kryos with the ability to use covert cynos that cannot fit a covert operations cloak? It seems like a very niche ship, but if there is a use for it, then by all means go for it. Isn't it the Miasmos that has the Ore Bay in the T1 Haulers? Thus making this new ship logically a T2 version of the Miasmos?
could also be a t2 noc if we wanted to make it part of the ORE line
BLOPS Hauler
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1215
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Posted - 2016.09.12 11:13:57 -
[19] - Quote
I think you should be able to conduct covert ops mining operations in a large scale like you imagine. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3087
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Posted - 2016.09.12 11:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
well currently you can its just the cost and manpower make it less profitable than AFK in HS thats the issue i would like to see fixed
BLOPS Hauler
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2016.09.12 12:11:54 -
[21] - Quote
I agree, I really like the Prospect, but it really isn't worth it when you can make more money in Hi Sec with far less hassle or join an existing Null Sec group which then makes it pointless to use one due to its nature.
A BLOPs dedicated ore hauler would be nice but it would need at lease 60k capacity IMO, but I'm open to other suggestions.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3088
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Posted - 2016.09.12 12:22:53 -
[22] - Quote
I'm not opposed to it being 60. with my math 30 was just the minimum to start making profit over HS. i would like to hear from people who move ore from null if a 60k bridgeable ore hauler would be to powerful. or if anyone else can see that breaking something.
BLOPS Hauler
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
313
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Posted - 2016.09.12 16:16:29 -
[23] - Quote
I don't care if it's 30k or 60k, but let it carry gas or ore. I do extended (a few days to a week) gas mining runs and currently navigate with a DST as the hauler through WHs to get to nullsec gas, but having a BLOPs kind of hauler would make it much easier to convince more people to join me. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1092
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Posted - 2016.09.12 17:52:33 -
[24] - Quote
Make one for raw ore and one for refined products, and I'm sold. Make it slightly more profitable to refine the products at say a makeshift citadel or rented station before sending them back, and you build in a few more content seeds to this.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1851
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Posted - 2016.09.12 17:55:14 -
[25] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:I don't care if it's 30k or 60k, but let it carry gas or ore. I do extended (a few days to a week) gas mining runs and currently navigate with a DST as the hauler through WHs to get to nullsec gas, but having a BLOPs kind of hauler would make it much easier to convince more people to join me.
I believe ore holds count gas already (prospect and venture both have them)
Art of Explosions
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
313
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Posted - 2016.09.12 18:33:02 -
[26] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I believe ore holds count gas already (prospect and venture both have them)
Yeah, I assume the game considers gas as ore, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't left out. CCP has unintentionally missed things like that before |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2683
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Posted - 2016.09.12 18:45:20 -
[27] - Quote
Just make it so existing specialized T1 haulers can take Black Ops bridges.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2016.09.12 20:10:19 -
[28] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Just make it so existing specialized T1 haulers can take Black Ops bridges.
I'd rather have a new T2 Hauler than break the rule of only Cov Ops Cloaky things can use Covert Bridge. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
297
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Posted - 2016.09.12 21:04:42 -
[29] - Quote
It never hurts to have another ship in the inventory to choose from. |
Iain Cariaba
3202
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Posted - 2016.09.12 23:08:55 -
[30] - Quote
Welp, that did it. Sorry Lugh, but if Dryson thinks this is a good idea....
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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