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Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2016.09.10 21:16:27 -
[1] - Quote
...End of CONCORD.
...and by meaningful I mean player impactful; not profitable. CCP gave up on a profitable bounty system when it established the 20% payout schedule. There is probably no way at all to do a profitable bounty system because of player workaround. However, the spirit of EvE is to have player impact control the course of the game and that is attainable.
A common question in the EvE forums history is, "Who are the good guys?" There is a visceral desire to fill the role of 'Good Guy' but there is no discernably explicit role in the game for those people. Some niches certainly, but nothing as deliberately designed as miner, scout, repair, etc. Law enforcement should be a thing too.
1) To make bounty meaningful give it a physical reality. Let bounty represent a time in jail. CONCORD jail specifically. All CONCORD NPC stations will function as jails. The amount of time is determined by a unit time multiplied by the base 10 logarithm of a criminal's bounty. The exact unit is explained below. When the time expires the bounty is wiped clean and the player may undock in a freshly supplied rookie ship (unless the criminal has a ship already available in that station). No one collects the bounty. It's disappearance functions as an ISK drain.
To make jail time meaningful a player in jail cannot interact with any aspect of the game. No chats, no cargo bay, no industry, no fitting screen, no market, no contracts, no ship hangar, no journal, no anything. The only thing they can do is spin their pod in its hangar. Most damaging though, they also will not experience any skill training. While the jail timer is counting down the skill training que is paused*.
The unit multiplier for how long a criminal remains in jail will depend on whether or not CONCORD police drones are abolished from the game. If police drones remain in the game the multiplier will be only one hour. Abolish CONCORD and the unit should be one day. For example: log10 of 23,456,789 ISK bounty = 7.37, multiplied by the unit time no CONCORD = 7.37 times 1 day = 7.37 days CONCORD remains = 7.37 times 1 hour = 7.37 hours
None of this affects player earned payouts for ship destruction. Such payouts will continue as always. Jail time will be calculated from the bounty amount remaining at the moment of incarceration.
Now, how to get criminals into jail.
2)Usually people want some kind of God ship for a police vessel; much as CONCORD drones are presently constituted. This is obviously impossible. But this ship should have at least some special abilities.
First and foremost will be the ability to forcefully dock a criminal's pod in a special docking 'capture' bay on the ship and deactivate any self-destruct that may be in progress. Without this ability there can be no jailing of criminals and no law enforcement role in the game. Consider this 'capture' bay a role bonus.
Another possible role bonus. Special CONCORD/Jove technology that allows a police ship to resolve both a target and the target's Jovian tech pod when locking on. When a player locks onto a criminal's ship, the completion of the lock timer will result in 2 visible targets appearing on the players HUD; one the ship, the other the pod inside the ship. The mere fact of a lock on to the criminal's pod doesn't mean being able to affect that pod in any way. To seize the pod you still have to destroy the ship surrounding it first. But you get a head start on locking it down. This ability will be extremely controversial and most likely not even considered for adoption.
Using the SoCT Gnosis as a model the police ship will probably have omni-resists for shield, armor, and structure. Due to the need for a dedicated pod docking bay the ship will probably have drastically less structure than any other ships of its size class. Less armor too but not as bad a shrinkage as structure. This suggests a shield tanked ship.
The ship will probably have strong Sensor Strength and a large Scan Resolution for its class. Maybe it could have warp jamming and/or electronic warfare and/or Nos/Neut bonuses.
Warp speed for police ships will probably be one class better than the ship's class. A destroyer would have a frigate's warp value; a cruiser would have a destroyer's warp value; a battleship would have a battlecruisers warp value; etc., etc. Skill bonuses may also apply.
I have no opinion on the rest of the ship's attributes. Fitting experts please speak up.
Only one class of police ship(a cruiser) should be necessary (much like the SoCT only have one ship) but pirate faction ships come in three classes and there are many ORE ships. Most likely players will want a variety of police ships so the pirate model should be followed. A frigate, a cruiser, and a battleship.
Pirate ships are trained into via dual faction skills. It's not obvious which faction skills to combine for police ships so let them have their own single skill(much as ORE ships have their own skills), called Police Ship Skill, and require the Advanced Spaceship Command as a prerequisite for that skill.
Police Frigate = Adv.Spaceship Comm Lv1, Police Ship Skill Lv1 Police Cruiser = Adv.Spaceship Comm Lv3, Police Ship Skill Lv4 Police Battleship = Adv.Spaceship Comm Lv4, Police Ship Skill Lv5
The Police Ship Skill will have a training time multiplier of x12.
cont... |
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2016.09.10 21:16:49 -
[2] - Quote
Bonuses for the skill: 4%(5%?) bonus to Scan Resolution per Lv. 1% bonus to System Security for all Police Ships per Lv. -Police ships have the ability to raise the system security of the system they are in for themselves and any other police ships also in the system. -this bonus is multiplicatively stackable with all other police ships in the system. ONLY police ships benefit from this skill and the bonus is system wide. -to transmit and receive this bonus a capsuleer must be in their police ship, must be in space, and must not be inside a force field. -this bonus is applicable to all Empire Space systems.
Alternatively the bonus to System Security could apply to every single ship in a system: law enforcement ships, normal capsuleers, criminals, and CONCORD(assuming CONCORD is not abolished). I imagine this will be too controversial to even consider.
5%(10%?) bonus to Warp Speed per Lv.
The Police Ship Skill will connect the player to a special CONCORD chat for law enforcement. Lv2 skill connects players to CONCORD chat in system. Lv3 skill connects players to CONCORD chat in constellation. Lv4 skill connects players to CONCORD chat in region. Lv5 skill connects players to CONCORD chat for all Empire Space. -the same rules apply to this bonus as apply to the System Security bonus. -this chat will relay crime related system messages(for the relevant spatial area) to the law enforcement pilot. Bookmarks will also generate in the Expedition tab of the Journal as they are in ratting Escalations.
Even if they have the Police Ship Skill trained, in order to board a Police Ship, whether in a hangar or in space, with their pod, a capsuleer MUST have a true CONCORD Security Standing of +10.0. +5.0 simply isn't high enough. Being law enforcement must be a commitment.
Police Ships must obey all CrimeWatch Safety rules (Green/Yellow/Red) that any other ship would have to obey. Any relevant violation of CrimeWatch rules will cost them SecStat and their pod will instantly be involuntarily ejected from their Police ship.
When a capsuleer has captured a criminal pod with their ship they will acquire an amalgam of the PvP Flag timer and the Weapons Flag timer. They will not be able to log off the game at all nor dock anywhere except a CONCORD NPC station, any CONCORD station will do, so long as they have a criminal pod on board. They will still be able to use Jump Gates so they can travel to a CONCORD station if one is not in their system when they acquire the flag. If they are in space when daily server downtime occurs, the pod(s) they are holding in their capture bay will automatically be ejected into space.
If a capsuleer's ship is destroyed while holding a criminal pod in the capture bay, the pod will eject into space as normal.
When a capsuleer docks at a CONCORD station with a criminal pod(s) they will be automatically relieved of the pod(s) to CONCORD's custody.
Frigates will have space in their pod capture bay for a single pod. Cruisers will have space for two pods. Battleships will have space for three pods.
Only criminals that have a bounty can be captured. The police ship AI will simply refuse to dock the pod of a criminal that has no bounty.
To prevent the exploit of having police ships hover outside a CONCORD NPC station with a known criminal, waiting for them to leave after the jail timer counts down, so they can slap a bounty on him and then capture him, only players with an active kill right should be able to apply bounty to criminals.
*This idea was conceived of before skill point trading was added to the game. Skill point trading effectively destroys the only real threat CONCORD jail possesses. |
Iain Cariaba
3193
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Posted - 2016.09.10 21:52:07 -
[3] - Quote
First off, locking players out of being able to play the game is an abysmally bad idea. I devote either game time or cash to play EvE, and if CCP were to implement something that made me unable to do anything, for however long, I'd find somewhere else to play. I'm pretty certain a great majority of the playerbase would do the same.
Second, if you don't think this absurdity you call an idea wouldn't be utterly abused, you're delusional. If I took part in highsec wars, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to drop 25 mil bounties on every single member of an enemy corp, and have a fleet of my corpmates alts standing by to lock their entire response fleet up just as their POS comes out of reinforce or their citadel becomes vulnerable. Boom, instant win because I can simply out spend them.
I didn't bother reading the second wall of text you posts, as the gaping holes large enough to toss a planet through make it irrelevant.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4754
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Posted - 2016.09.10 22:01:09 -
[4] - Quote
OP, you are insane. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3074
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Posted - 2016.09.11 00:48:49 -
[5] - Quote
Dornier Pfeil wrote:There is probably no way at all to do a profitable bounty system because of player workaround.
turn it into a contract where you can set player/corps/alliance/public and the minimum value of a km to be eligible
boom
BLOPS Hauler
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Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
412
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Posted - 2016.09.11 05:12:27 -
[6] - Quote
I kid you not i saw another space jail for gankers thread in C&P probably 4 years ago and i never thought it would return again in its glory.
Ill give you the same answer i gave him:
No
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
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Iain Cariaba
3195
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Posted - 2016.09.11 07:47:42 -
[7] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:I kid you not i saw another space jail for gankers thread in C&P probably 4 years ago and i never thought it would return again in its glory.
Ill give you the same answer i gave him:
No The concept of jailing gankers is like herpes. It flares up from time to time, but never really goes away.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45058
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Posted - 2016.09.11 07:55:54 -
[8] - Quote
The absolute worst penalty when playing a game is to say - you can't play the game.
Not great game design in my view.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
985
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Posted - 2016.09.11 14:34:51 -
[9] - Quote
NO, bad idea is a bad idea and yours is bad like all the rest because you refuse to address the single biggest problem with the current bounty system. So what is that single biggest problem with bounties? Well that would be this crazy notion that any character can place a bounty on any other character at any time and for any reason or no reason at all. Remove this silly idea from the game and tie the ability to place a bounty to a criminal act in game and instantly you could build a workable bounty system.
Oh and good luck with getting this silly thing removed from the game, the vast majority of the players would rather have a totally useless system than see it go away in favor of something that would actually give bounties and bounty hunting meaning in this game. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4759
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:45:57 -
[10] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:NO, bad idea is a bad idea and yours is bad like all the rest because you refuse to address the single biggest problem with the current bounty system. So what is that single biggest problem with bounties? Well that would be this crazy notion that any character can place a bounty on any other character at any time and for any reason or no reason at all. Remove this silly idea from the game and tie the ability to place a bounty to a criminal act in game and instantly you could build a workable bounty system.
Oh and good luck with getting this silly thing removed from the game, the vast majority of the players would rather have a totally useless system than see it go away in favor of something that would actually give bounties and bounty hunting meaning in this game.
Why do you not want me to be able to put a bounty on your for your posting? How is that the biggest issue with the bounty system? |
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Iain Cariaba
3195
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Posted - 2016.09.11 19:16:58 -
[11] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:NO, bad idea is a bad idea and yours is bad like all the rest because you refuse to address the single biggest problem with the current bounty system. So what is that single biggest problem with bounties? Well that would be this crazy notion that any character can place a bounty on any other character at any time and for any reason or no reason at all. Remove this silly idea from the game and tie the ability to place a bounty to a criminal act in game and instantly you could build a workable bounty system.
Oh and good luck with getting this silly thing removed from the game, the vast majority of the players would rather have a totally useless system than see it go away in favor of something that would actually give bounties and bounty hunting meaning in this game. In a game about doing what you want for whatever reason you wish, how is it a bad thing to be able to put a bounty on someone for whatever reason you wish?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2016.09.12 20:51:11 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:OP, you are insane.
This about sums it up. I have a different word in mind but... TOS.
Imagine World War Bee, with MBC sticking billion isk bounties on anyone that fights them and gate camps collecting pods.
All the content that happened would have been over in a fraction of the time. WWB would have been nothing more than a bunch of people forced to blueball each other.
No thanks. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2304
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Posted - 2016.09.12 21:13:26 -
[13] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:First off, locking players out of being able to play the game is an abysmally bad idea.
Really, forum content guidelines make it impossible to really do justice to how irretrievably stupid this idea is.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
989
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Posted - 2016.09.13 14:01:31 -
[14] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: Why do you not want me to be able to put a bounty on your for your posting? How is that the biggest issue with the bounty system?
Iain Cariaba wrote:In a game about doing what you want for whatever reason you wish, how is it a bad thing to be able to put a bounty on someone for whatever reason you wish? First I want to thank both of you for making my point about most of the current player base and their desire to keep a worthless system in place, rather than replace it with something that has the potential to add to the actual ships in space play the game aspect of EvE.
Why do I want to remove your useless right to bounty anyone at anytime and for any reason? First I do not see it as "removing" your right to bounty, I see it as a logical restriction placed on your right to bounty in exchange for a system that has a realistic chance of adding to the player created content aspect of EvE that you both champion. |
General Vachot
The Vendunari End of Life
27
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Posted - 2016.09.15 04:13:17 -
[15] - Quote
OK so yeah wow OP - no words for that idea. However was giving some thought to the concept of making bounty hunting a real job again and something fun to do in eve for those few who want to play "the good guys" role.
What about making bounties like proper contracts such that if you want t place a bounty on anyone you take a contract out on them at the nearest bounty office. By accepting the contract it triggers a kill right for you as the hunter. The contract then disappears from the list of available.
Then to make player work around harder use corpses generated from podding the character as a loot drop rather than isk payment direct. Then you have to grab the "bounty corpse" which is not the same as a normal corpse dropped when you have no bounty on you. This adds an element of loot grab.
Then you get paid when you drop off the corpse at a bounty office. Makes corpses worth something and potentially valuable loot. If you steal one then you can trade it for say 20% the bounty - so its not unlike the current payout.
A way to prevent no effort exploit by self destruct or getting a mate to pod you is by no bounty appearing on your toon until the contract has been accepted by a bounty hunter. This alone would reduce the ability of anyone other than the most organised groups to 100% exploit all the time since you would have to be watching the bounty contracts all the time and catch all the contracts yourself. Not impossible but requires effort which is a fair payment - bad guys still need a way to be bad too.
Also it means that you have multiple contracts for the very naughty people which makes it harder to work around than one bounty pot that keeps stacking.
Contracts would have no expiry period and could be onsold or cancelled at a cost to the hunter. Maybe limit the number of contracts someone can have active at a time too.
I know its not water tight but maybe something along these lines could rejuvenate bounty hunting?
You could add flavour by adding a bounty collected amount on peoples heads that has how much bounty you have collected :) as a hunter.
Flame away
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