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Scath Bererund
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
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Posted - 2016.09.11 13:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bit of a click bait title but hear me out...
I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.
Started to wonder why. Thinking back to my first encounter with a suicide ganker i was a newbie fresh into my first barge. A covertor. Solo jetcan minimg in a 0.5 system. Needless to say the cat melted my barge. After having a convo with the ganker i was told about how profitable covs are to gankers. And how i should alter my play style to make myself "not worth the effort"
So after that incident i had a much better idea of skills needed, ships to fly and so on. I bought a proc. Tanked the thing as best o could and went back to mining never bothered by gankers again.
One small problem. The soft targets (hulk and cov) need constant micro management. The proc just sits there until it fills up. Meaning i either tabbed out or went afk.
Thats what seems to have happened in highsec. No one flies the busy ships because they weak and the stronger ships need little to no micro management. So as a result miners arnt at there keyboards. The dont start convos in local. They dont form a comunity. To me this seems wrong.
The way i see it there are 2 possable solutions CCP and CODE
1: ccp needs to a bit of a swap with the barges. The tanky bricks should be micro management heavy and the tinfoil ships more "afk ish" this might keep people at thier keyboards and interacting with each other.
2: CODE right now code targets the paper barges. And who can blame them? Easy money. If code where to make a point of killing procs and skiffs (yeah i know how many ships that would take) and leave the hulks and covs alone it might kickstart a comunity in highsec.
Any thoughts anyone? |
Serene Repose
2973
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 14:01:11 -
[2] - Quote
If "pirating" were treated like a hefty crime with hefty penalties like hefty fines that took a majority of the pirates ISK if the pirate wished to continue to consort with law abiding citizens....
If pirates couldn't dock, or use jump gates in any system the sovereignty of the offended faction until said crime was adjudicated....
THEN, the REAL pirates who're rebels against society, and too cool to live amongst the conditioned respondents would be doin' the piratin', and the jackasses doing blindlingly repetitive "play" 'cause they are weird people with two-dimensional thinking and need to be led along by the hand into more dynamic activities using the game EVE and not just some WoW, GANK THE NOOB traditionalist....being allowed to play WoW in EVE....
AFK mining is done with scripts. If CCP wanted to ban scripts, and make the ineffectual, the could. They haven't. They have their reasons why...which have nothing to do with us. SO...afk play is a dead discussion before it gets out the gate. It could very well be a way CCP lets us pretend we're actually discussing the game on the forum.
None of this is rocket science requiring convoluted engineering. It just takes a couple of tweaks of variables in the code.
Presto!
(Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm....")
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Diablo Ex
Lineark
252
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Posted - 2016.09.11 14:02:17 -
[3] - Quote
It amazes me to no end that a percentile of the population insist upon forcing others to change how they want to play a sandbox game.
Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
35
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Posted - 2016.09.11 14:24:33 -
[4] - Quote
I too, grr CODE instead of staying on topic.
@OP, Since people are going to gravitate to AFK mining no matter what the changes are, you won't get the intended outcome. We have the prospect and endurance for people that don't want to afk, and yet they don't even show up in the list of top mining ships. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
141
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Posted - 2016.09.11 14:59:03 -
[5] - Quote
Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game. This happens not only with mineta but null ratters and missions runners and all that. I always say this, but people who do 'play at keyboard' do high end PVE with bling stuff and have pretty good income and less loss in much more dangerous spaces, like those that PVE in WH or do null escalations and such. My exhumers use minimal tank when I do mine sometimes, because I don't do afk. I've been ganked in a mining ship only once in past seven years, and that was because I went afk in high sec, and I've done lots of mining in low/null/wh. So yes, going afk in highsec is actually more dangerous than mining in WH if you pay attention.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2016.09.11 15:51:18 -
[6] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game......
I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times.
Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding.
Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out
I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with.
I realize all of this comes from the notion that you shouldn't be able to make isk without direct interaction from the game, but seriously, get over it, buy some plex. You have to be making something like a buck fiffy an hr to make it worth your time to mine in game versus buying plex from time to time.
How much time someone else is paying attention to this game is one of the most childish things to be worried about. And trying to punish people for needing to leave the game for a few to do something in their daily life is just, well it shows how much of a life some don't have frankly.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26789
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Posted - 2016.09.11 16:01:12 -
[7] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Toobo wrote:Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game...... I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times. Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding. Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with. I realize all of this comes from the notion that you shouldn't be able to make isk without direct interaction from the game, but seriously, get over it, buy some plex. You have to be making something like a buck fiffy an hr to make it worth your time to mine in game versus buying plex from time to time. How much time someone else is paying attention to this game is one of the most childish things to be worried about. And trying to punish people for needing to leave the game for a few to do something in their daily life is just, well it shows how much of a life some don't have frankly. It's a PvP game, would you go AFK in any other PvP game and expect to be left alone?
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17994
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 16:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Toobo wrote:Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game...... I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times. Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding. Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up.
Click me
=]|[=
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Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
414
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Posted - 2016.09.11 16:37:48 -
[9] - Quote
i am however very concerned Ralph that you have a cat and what sounds like a Honeybadger living in the same house, won't someone think of the children?
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2469
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Posted - 2016.09.11 16:42:23 -
[10] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes ... why are you being redundant, though?
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
A wise man sums up EvE
Smoke me a Kipper...
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
310
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Posted - 2016.09.11 16:56:06 -
[11] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times.
Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding.
Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out
I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with.
I realize all of this comes from the notion that you shouldn't be able to make isk without direct interaction from the game, but seriously, get over it, buy some plex. You have to be making something like a buck fiffy an hr to make it worth your time to mine in game versus buying plex from time to time.
How much time someone else is paying attention to this game is one of the most childish things to be worried about. And trying to punish people for needing to leave the game for a few to do something in their daily life is just, well it shows how much of a life some don't have frankly.
We all have lives, you condescending walnut. That's fine if you play that way, just don't whine when you lose ships. Slap a cloak on your ship and cloak up when you want a snack. It takes literally 5 seconds |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26792
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Posted - 2016.09.11 17:27:37 -
[12] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes That's no way to talk about the wife
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1210
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 17:33:24 -
[13] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Toobo wrote:Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game...... I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times. Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding. Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with. I realize all of this comes from the notion that you shouldn't be able to make isk without direct interaction from the game, but seriously, get over it, buy some plex. You have to be making something like a buck fiffy an hr to make it worth your time to mine in game versus buying plex from time to time. How much time someone else is paying attention to this game is one of the most childish things to be worried about. And trying to punish people for needing to leave the game for a few to do something in their daily life is just, well it shows how much of a life some don't have frankly. Well. I do all that, which you do not consider worth doing. This is an mmo after all. I don't have kids, but I have other relatives that require looking after every now and then. As strange as this may sound in anonymous internet times, to me this is still nothing less than a question of behaviour.
This may come from my background as a semi hardcore progress raider back before I left WoW for EVE, because I couldn't afford three or more contiguous hours of playtime any more.
So yes I do have a life. You still won't find me sitting afk out there. And it doesn't matter, what I'm actually doing in that moment.
I maybe won't respond within those 5-10 seconds CODE promotes and which I find somewhat ridiculous. But out in space, you usually will get a response from me within a reasonable timeframe of a couple of minutes.
Now tell me, is that an ass-hat attitude, if I expect from other players something that's not too far off in an mmo sandbox game?
Remove insurance.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1210
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 17:43:35 -
[14] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:Any thoughts anyone? People have done, what CCP (and CODE ) expected them to do: Choose the right tool for the job they want done.
Yes, maybe barges can do with another revamp sometime. But I'd rather see CCP concentrate there resources on more important or pressing matters at the moment. Overall barges are still fine and the concepts are working mostly.
Remove insurance.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8710
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 17:44:17 -
[15] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote: Any thoughts anyone?
Doc hopes if dogs ever take over the world and they choose a king, they don't just go by size, because there are probably some Chihuahuas out there with some good ideas.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1210
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:10:12 -
[16] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Scath Bererund wrote: Any thoughts anyone?
Doc hopes if dogs ever take over the world and they choose a king, they don't just go by size, because there are probably some bad-ass Chihuahuas out there with some good ideas. /fixed
Remove insurance.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2360
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:19:20 -
[17] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:Bit of a click bait title but hear me out...
I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.
Started to wonder why. Thinking back to my first encounter with a suicide ganker i was a newbie fresh into my first barge. A covertor. Solo jetcan minimg in a 0.5 system. Needless to say the cat melted my barge. After having a convo with the ganker i was told about how profitable covs are to gankers. And how i should alter my play style to make myself "not worth the effort"
So after that incident i had a much better idea of skills needed, ships to fly and so on. I bought a proc. Tanked the thing as best i could and went back to mining never bothered by gankers again.
One small problem. The soft targets (hulk and cov) need constant micro management. The proc just sits there until it fills up. Meaning i either tabbed out or went afk.
Thats what seems to have happened in highsec. No one flies the busy ships because they weak and the stronger ships need little to no micro management. So as a result miners arnt at thier keyboards. The dont start convos in local. They dont form a comunity. To me this seems wrong.
The way i see it there are 2 possable solutions CCP and CODE
1: ccp needs to a bit of a swap with the barges. The tanky bricks should be micro management heavy and the tinfoil ships more "afk ish" this might keep people at thier keyboards and interacting with each other.
2: CODE right now code targets the paper barges. And who can blame them? Easy money. If code where to make a point of killing procs and skiffs (yeah i know how many ships that would take) and leave the hulks and covs alone it might kickstart a comunity in highsec.
Any thoughts anyone?
Suggest you go and look outside of the forge and systems with ice belts then you will see a lot more of the other mining ships, CCP detailed the usage of mining ships and it is no where like what you say it is. Sorry mate, you are way off base...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
555
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:33:56 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes .. .
If you need to go afk, dock up.
Does your wife know you talk about her in this fashion?
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8710
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:36:30 -
[19] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes .. .
If you need to go afk, dock up. Does your wife know you talk about her in this fashion?
What do you think caused the hissing and clawing?
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Elite Harvester
Elite Harvesters
79
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Posted - 2016.09.11 18:51:32 -
[20] - Quote
The Code has ways of dealing with those who jump into a Procurer or Skiff and believe themselves to be above The Law.
For instance I haven't met a mining barge yet that I couldn't bump out of range of an asteroid.
Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how you can help save Highsec.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
245
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 19:33:23 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up.
Well, this kinda depends on the situation though. If I am in warp flying through Innia or any other of those big ass systems, and I would wait for the warp to end and dock up while my son is trying to climb up on something high, I am pretty sure my wife would kill me :D. So just wanted to say it is not always possible to dock up first. I on the other hand also don't complain if someone kills me in game during that time... because it is just pixels.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1211
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Posted - 2016.09.11 19:58:18 -
[22] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up.
Well, this kinda depends on the situation though. If I am in warp flying through Innia or any other of those big ass systems, and I would wait for the warp to end and dock up while my son is trying to climb up on something high, I am pretty sure my wife would kill me :D. So just wanted to say it is not always possible to dock up first. I on the other hand also don't complain if someone kills me in game during that time... because it is just pixels. Of course there are emergencies. If I can't dock up and know I'll be away for more than just a couple of minutes I usually simply gtfo of what I'm doing and kill the client. In a pvp encounter it's bad luck obviously, stuff lost and an e-mail afterwards.
Remove insurance.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
141
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 21:49:57 -
[23] - Quote
Lol that was ridiculous. I too have family and had in game losses because I had to urgently leave the PC to look after something/someone. And yes if you are unlucky you could lose your ship in those moments But like others said, if that happens don't complain about the game.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
458
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 22:38:52 -
[24] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:Bit of a click bait title but hear me out...
I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.
Started to wonder why. Thinking back to my first encounter with a suicide ganker i was a newbie fresh into my first barge. A covertor. Solo jetcan minimg in a 0.5 system. Needless to say the cat melted my barge. After having a convo with the ganker i was told about how profitable covs are to gankers. And how i should alter my play style to make myself "not worth the effort"
So after that incident i had a much better idea of skills needed, ships to fly and so on. I bought a proc. Tanked the thing as best i could and went back to mining never bothered by gankers again.
One small problem. The soft targets (hulk and cov) need constant micro management. The proc just sits there until it fills up. Meaning i either tabbed out or went afk.
Thats what seems to have happened in highsec. No one flies the busy ships because they weak and the stronger ships need little to no micro management. So as a result miners arnt at thier keyboards. The dont start convos in local. They dont form a comunity. To me this seems wrong.
The way i see it there are 2 possable solutions CCP and CODE
1: ccp needs to a bit of a swap with the barges. The tanky bricks should be micro management heavy and the tinfoil ships more "afk ish" this might keep people at thier keyboards and interacting with each other.
2: CODE right now code targets the paper barges. And who can blame them? Easy money. If code where to make a point of killing procs and skiffs (yeah i know how many ships that would take) and leave the hulks and covs alone it might kickstart a comunity in highsec.
Any thoughts anyone?
This has to be a test alliance joke thread right?
Why would test care if high sec come together for a pow wow?
Listen I'm the biggest carebear of all carebears, I work with other in high sec when they want, do I wish I could have a wingman to do things with, sure, but everybody is doing the game their way, what they feel like doing,, do you really feel like mining with me, I think you wouldn't enjoy that?
If you want people with you then leave test and make your own corp that offers mining as it's main thing, then offer newbies and others incentives to join, get team speak, free bpc's, etc.
Building something takes effort, it takes work, many people don't have the time to keep a corp running very well with everything that needs to be done.
If you are serious about forming communities then there's nothing to stop you, you need to set goals, have plans, and think long term, you need to lead, you need to help those in your corp with their goals and aspersions, until then you don't have any right to try and nerf others because your not getting what you crave.
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
458
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Posted - 2016.09.11 23:29:25 -
[25] - Quote
Also so I will participate, what are you doing now...for me I'm listening to Snoop dogg, gin and juice, rolling down the street smoking indo..... |
Commander Spurty
1641
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 23:32:36 -
[26] - Quote
Can highsec product Capital ships?
Phew, no .. all good. Carry on with your absolutely pointless crusade to save something that's fine.
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
458
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 00:01:07 -
[27] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Can highsec product Capital ships?
Phew, no .. all good. Carry on with your absolutely pointless crusade to save something that's fine.
I wanted to build T-2 ships....trained the skills and invested millions in skill books....like Zoidberg I went ahhhhh, as I realized I need moon goo. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
459
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 00:39:18 -
[28] - Quote
See, OP hasn't even answered me...AFK perhaps?
I'm participating, right now I am listening to the doors while I mine...need to build a Rokh, unless someone wants to donate one to me so I can go exploring with my new shiny, just now the computer said 'the asteroid is defeated'
FILL THAT CARGO BOY. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4654
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 01:10:22 -
[29] - Quote
'I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.' Crom! Let eplain you Lucy. The people miner gankers shoot are the miner noobs who don't know anything about that bean-counting shite you're talking about. If they did, they'd be experienced in the game enough to not set up a tasty code gank op!
Start the bubble machine!
-Lawrence Welk
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
141
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Posted - 2016.09.12 01:52:45 -
[30] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote: 'asteroid is defeated'
Love it. CCP should change to this.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
460
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Posted - 2016.09.12 02:49:37 -
[31] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:'I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.'
Crom! If those miners are sophisticated enough to do that, they've been in the game long enough to know about code. Not a good target for a solo code warrior, or an undock gang. Miners too smart, too many variables, too much FacPo, not enough time. Besides, sitting around on your thumbs on an alt with no action and alt+tab gets old.
But the price remains high for the HULK....humm. |
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7849
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Posted - 2016.09.12 07:28:04 -
[32] - Quote
When I do bother mining, I mostly remain silent in local, but the reason I do that is because I have no interest in having a conversation with most of the people that play this game. Making mining need more management (see tedious) will simply make it even less worthwhile to mine that in already is. It's already so low income that unless your running a one man fleet it's not worth doing, why make it worse by giving you umpteen million button clicks to accomplish?
Serene Repose wrote:AFK mining is done with scripts.) Lol, no it isn't.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7851
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Posted - 2016.09.12 07:45:39 -
[33] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up. That's good for you, but why should that mean the game should go out of it's way to prevent people going AFK? If you go AFK you run the risk of getting blown up. Most people accept this risk and take the necessary precautions. What the OP wants is mechanics changes so going AFK is punished without the need for other players intervention.
Elite Harvester wrote:For instance I haven't met a mining barge yet that I couldn't bump out of range of an asteroid. I've met many a bumper that's given up on bumping after a few minutes of a futile attempt against a large multibox fleet. The main thing is don't say anything and don't seem to be reacting. Bumping is insanely boring, bumping and getting no response tends to put people off pretty quick.
Toobo wrote:I don't think anyone's complaining here about going on those 'emergency afk' and coming back to find that they lost a ship. But the notion that you can/should be able to go afk and CONTINUE MAKING ISK while afk is pretty sh*t. So should moon harvesters, PI facilities, market orders and manufacturing queues all halt when people are AFK or out of the game? Many activities allow income while AFK, mining is one of the lowest income ones and takes special consideration to do even marginally safely, bearing in mind that an AFK skiff with max skills can only make around 3 million isk (taking about 6 and a half minutes with boosts) before requiring input.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2361
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:58:10 -
[34] - Quote
I had one try to bump my Skiffs and failed continuously then he went back to hassling a Russian players Orca.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
142
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Posted - 2016.09.12 08:08:02 -
[35] - Quote
Lucas, I did not say passive/AFK isk is bad, all I'm saying is that it comes with the risk. You can AFK mine now too, and it's not 'wrong' in any sense, but it is 'rightly so' that there is risk of being ganked by not paying attention.
Out of other things you listed, PI is the only one that's pretty risk free, so that could be looked into. But PI requires moving stuff to hubs to sell, and it's usually during the transportation that risk is present, even more so considering that more profitable PI harvesting is done in less secure space. You could point at PI factories in high sec, but that requires a lot more micromanagement than PI harvesting.
Regarding things like moon mining and trading being passive ISK, both come with great risk. If you set up huge order and go afk for few months you cannoy react to sudden market changes and can suffer heavy loss. For moon mining, taking control of and protecting profitable moons are no easy task - at least in a sense that it will usually require team effort.
As I said, you can afk mine or rat or whatever all you want, the game allows for it. But my point was that afk mining AND wishig for less risk doesn't fly as an argument.
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
312
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 08:09:12 -
[36] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:Any thoughts anyone? Instead of reworking barges, CCP should rework mining itself. Make it more intellegent, more challenging, and make it to take more attention - not just boring AFK-switch-lasers-AFK thing.
This idea was on forums for literally years - to add some kind of "mini-games" for miners as it was made with exploration sites. To cracking asteroids to shards, to put some more and less rich parts in it, to add some unpredictable events during mining cycle, like dropping alloys (similar to those you may find in rogue drones sites) and mining out DAMN-F@#KEN-SLEEPERS!!!11 from asteroid.
That may make mining interesting and unsuitable for AFK and bots.
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 08:35:06 -
[37] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:oiukhp Muvila wrote:Toobo wrote:Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game...... I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times. Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding. Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with. I realize all of this comes from the notion that you shouldn't be able to make isk without direct interaction from the game, but seriously, get over it, buy some plex. You have to be making something like a buck fiffy an hr to make it worth your time to mine in game versus buying plex from time to time. How much time someone else is paying attention to this game is one of the most childish things to be worried about. And trying to punish people for needing to leave the game for a few to do something in their daily life is just, well it shows how much of a life some don't have frankly. It's a PvP game, would you go AFK in any other PvP game and expect to be left alone?
I said nothing about expecting to be left alone.
The game should not try to punish me for taking the risk of going AFK. If a player wants to try and punish me, that is part of this game. The game mechanics should have nothing to do with it.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18004
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Posted - 2016.09.12 08:37:12 -
[38] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up. That's good for you, but why should that mean the game should go out of it's way to prevent people going AFK? If you go AFK you run the risk of getting blown up. Most people accept this risk and take the necessary precautions. What the OP wants is mechanics changes so going AFK is punished without the need for other players intervention. yeah i know, i dont actually care about this toppic whatsoever, its just a platform for a oneliner wife joke for me
Click me
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45063
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 09:07:51 -
[39] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:sero Hita wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: I do and I have two kids, a small wild animal that hisses at me tries to claw at my eyes and a cat .
If you need to go afk, dock up.
Well, this kinda depends on the situation though. If I am in warp flying through Innia or any other of those big ass systems, and I would wait for the warp to end and dock up while my son is trying to climb up on something high, I am pretty sure my wife would kill me :D. So just wanted to say it is not always possible to dock up first. I on the other hand also don't complain if someone kills me in game during that time... because it is just pixels. Of course there are emergencies. If I can't dock up and know I'll be away for more than just a couple of minutes I usually simply gtfo of what I'm doing and kill the client. In a pvp encounter it's bad luck obviously, stuff lost and an e-mail afterwards. I have a Corp mate who usually goes AFK about 4 hours into our Friday night roams. By then he's had enough drink to fall asleep.
One time he went AFK while we were setting up for a fight in Eve-Uni's nullsec campus home. We were sitting on gate and he just went AFK. Only thing was it was a bit early. We tried bumping him off grid (as we always did when grids were small) but a fleet of Russians jumped in and proceeded to kill and pod him during the fight. Turns out he wasn't asleep. He'd got up for a few seconds to get a drink and ended up having sex with his wife.
He was quite fine with the loss. SRP didn't cover it. We decided that without photographic proof there was no way SRP could apply.
He still just goes AFK.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7852
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 09:43:25 -
[40] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Lucas, I did not say passive/AFK isk is bad, all I'm saying is that it comes with the risk. You can AFK mine now too, and it's not 'wrong' in any sense, but it is 'rightly so' that there is risk of being ganked by not paying attention. You kinda did, you in fact said "the notion that you can/should be able to go afk and CONTINUE MAKING ISK while afk is pretty sh*t."
Toobo wrote:Out of other things you listed, PI is the only one that's pretty risk free, so that could be looked into. But PI requires moving stuff to hubs to sell, and it's usually during the transportation that risk is present, even more so considering that more profitable PI harvesting is done in less secure space. You could point at PI factories in high sec, but that requires a lot more micromanagement than PI harvesting. All of them are as mechanically risk free as AFK mining, since they all only have player intervention. In fact mining is technically more risky, since if an incursion rat shows up next to an AFK miner in highsec he stand a good chance of losing his ship in time since their dps will generally beat their passive regen.
Toobo wrote:Regarding things like moon mining and trading being passive ISK, both come with great risk. If you set up huge order and go afk for few months you cannoy react to sudden market changes and can suffer heavy loss. For moon mining, taking control of and protecting profitable moons are no easy task - at least in a sense that it will usually require team effort. Yes, but the difference is that you can go AFK for a few months and you can earn for that entire time. A boosted skiff can go AFK for 6 and a half minutes (earning around 3 million isk), at which point he stops making isk AFK. He also can still be ganked. Additionally if you do it right and consider the possible risks, you can set up long term market orders that are low risk and low loss if all goes wrong. Hell, you can set up 0.01 isk buy orders and make bank with basically no risk.
Toobo wrote:As I said, you can afk mine or rat or whatever all you want, the game allows for it. But my point was that afk mining AND wishig for less risk doesn't fly as an argument. But that's not what this thread is about. People aren't saying "oh hey we want less risk", the thread is that people are mitigating as much of their risk as possible, by flying the right ships, fitting them right and afking in the right locations, and the OP is suggest it to be mechanically more difficult to AFK them for the very short periods of time they can make ISK while AFK.
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Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
142
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 09:57:13 -
[41] - Quote
Lucas, I think we're onto different things here. I was making my comments based on "oiukhp Muvila"'s comments, the following bits,
oiukhp Muvila wrote: Toobo wrote: Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game......
I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times.
Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding.
Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with.
---
It seemed to me like a big whining about being exposed to danger when going AFK. :p
And of course most of the risk come from player interventions - that is the 'mechanic' I'm talking about. I don't see how non-player intervention mechanic to AFK activities are even a concern or a topic.
If I read the thread wrong - my bad.
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aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 09:57:44 -
[42] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:Bit of a click bait title but hear me out...
I recently had a wander around highsec and noticed where once there where fleets of hulks and covs there are now only procs and skiffs. Even when supported by an orca the hulk is pretty much extinct.
Started to wonder why. Thinking back to my first encounter with a suicide ganker i was a newbie fresh into my first barge. A covertor. Solo jetcan minimg in a 0.5 system. Needless to say the cat melted my barge. After having a convo with the ganker i was told about how profitable covs are to gankers. And how i should alter my play style to make myself "not worth the effort"
So after that incident i had a much better idea of skills needed, ships to fly and so on. I bought a proc. Tanked the thing as best i could and went back to mining never bothered by gankers again.
One small problem. The soft targets (hulk and cov) need constant micro management. The proc just sits there until it fills up. Meaning i either tabbed out or went afk.
Thats what seems to have happened in highsec. No one flies the busy ships because they weak and the stronger ships need little to no micro management. So as a result miners arnt at thier keyboards. The dont start convos in local. They dont form a comunity. To me this seems wrong.
The way i see it there are 2 possable solutions CCP and CODE
1: ccp needs to a bit of a swap with the barges. The tanky bricks should be micro management heavy and the tinfoil ships more "afk ish" this might keep people at thier keyboards and interacting with each other.
2: CODE right now code targets the paper barges. And who can blame them? Easy money. If code where to make a point of killing procs and skiffs (yeah i know how many ships that would take) and leave the hulks and covs alone it might kickstart a comunity in highsec.
Any thoughts anyone?
code alt detected.. shouldn't you be in null anyway ? why do you care about HS.. oh wait, you posted with the wrong alt.
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7852
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 10:12:08 -
[43] - Quote
Toobo wrote:It seemed to me like a big whining about being exposed to danger when going AFK. :p Sure, but if you read what his post is responding to, it's against the notion that AFKers should be mechanically punished for going AFK in space. He doesn't want to make it so going AFK runs no risk, he just doesn't want it so that the risk is so high that docking up is the only reasonable option.
Toobo wrote:And of course most of the risk come from player interventions - that is the 'mechanic' I'm talking about. I don't see how non-player intervention mechanic to AFK activities are even a concern or a topic. That's one of the OPs suggestions, that mining should be more tedious in that it requires more input to pick a tankier ship so an AFK player ceases to make isk or has a higher risk of being ganked.
Toobo wrote:If I read the thread wrong - my bad. I think you read it right, just not all of it
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 10:14:31 -
[44] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Lucas, I think we're onto different things here. I was making my comments based on "oiukhp Muvila"'s comments, the following bits,
oiukhp Muvila wrote: Toobo wrote: Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game......
I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times.
Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding.
Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with.
---
It seemed to me like a big whining about being exposed to danger when going AFK. :p
And of course most of the risk come from player interventions - that is the 'mechanic' I'm talking about. I don't see how non-player intervention mechanic to AFK activities are even a concern or a topic.
If I read the thread wrong - my bad.
Yeah, I wasn't complaining about the dangers of going afk, not even close. Players should punish those who are away from keyboards, not game mechanics designed to prevent or punish it.
The attitude that the game should somehow punish players for going afk is just silly.
Players, yeah sure, that is the risk you take by leaving your ship in space while you go do something, like mow the lawn.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
143
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 10:16:52 -
[45] - Quote
Lol fair enough Lucas I get you now. Come to think about it some miners indeed have been asking for more interactive mining. Making it more 'tedious' is probably not what miners want, but something more engaging. But usually everything becomes tedious after a while when it becomes a routine :p
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
143
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 10:18:20 -
[46] - Quote
Oiukhp, ok I understand you now and that I can agree with. The 'dangers' should come from player interactions, not some forced periodical clickfest.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
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Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2361
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 10:58:50 -
[47] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Toobo wrote:Lucas, I think we're onto different things here. I was making my comments based on "oiukhp Muvila"'s comments, the following bits,
oiukhp Muvila wrote: Toobo wrote: Problem is not the ship, but people going AFK or not paying enough attention to the game......
I think this attitude is what makes much of this community such ass-hats at times.
Some people actually have lives and this notion that if you are logged in and in space you cannot leave the KB and should be somehow punished if you dare to is simply astounding.
Get a life: I'm not going to dock ever time I need to take a crap. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to talk to my kids in a different room. I'm not going to dock ever time I want a snack. I'm not going to dock ever time I need to let the dog out I'm not going to dock ever time for what ever just so others can feel at ease that every character is in game and ready to be interacted with.
---
It seemed to me like a big whining about being exposed to danger when going AFK. :p
And of course most of the risk come from player interventions - that is the 'mechanic' I'm talking about. I don't see how non-player intervention mechanic to AFK activities are even a concern or a topic.
If I read the thread wrong - my bad.
Yeah, I wasn't complaining about the dangers of going afk, not even close. Players should punish those who are away from keyboards, not game mechanics designed to prevent or punish it. The attitude that the game should somehow punish players for going afk is just silly. Players, yeah sure, that is the risk you take by leaving your ship in space while you go do something, like mow the lawn.
Perhaps you should post that in the AFK cloaky camping thread in features and ideas....
The thing that most miners wanted is extra yield for doing something additional while mining, however this then gets interesting if you have to watch local, keep clicking D-scan and controlling what roids you mine when aligned. In affect all this rubbish about AFK mining is rather silly because the only mining you can do AFK is ice mining and ice systems are heavily patrolled by CODE, so the only ships to use are Skiffs and Procurers which is a circular argument if ever there was one...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 12:01:32 -
[48] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: ....Perhaps you should post that in the AFK cloaky camping thread in features and ideas....
...
AFK Cloaky is a totally different issue than what is being discussed here. You are neither making money or gathering intel when you are AFK and cloaked.
The fact that it annoys the locals is why it is done. They don't truly know if you are AFK or not.
It is a form of Psy Ops in the game that counters the perfect intel device known as local and there is nothing wrong with it.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2361
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 12:05:39 -
[49] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Dracvlad wrote: ....Perhaps you should post that in the AFK cloaky camping thread in features and ideas....
...
AFK Cloaky is a totally different issue than what is being discussed here. You are neither making money or gathering intel when you are AFK and cloaked. The fact that it annoys the locals is why it is done. They don't truly know if you are AFK or not. It is a form of Psy Ops in the game that counters the perfect intel device known as local and there is nothing wrong with it.
This is what you said:
Quote:Players, yeah sure, that is the risk you take by leaving your ship in space while you go do something, like mow the lawn.
Sleeping and working are also AFK or does it only apply when mining because they are miners or something naff like that.
So either you believe it is wrong to leave your ship in space or you don't, which one is it?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
361
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 12:17:49 -
[50] - Quote
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
Thread Closed.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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