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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:07:00 -
[1]
I've been kinda busy past couple of weeks but just took a look at those patch notes and went.... ah so eve's turned into one of those games where they nerf everything the majority doesn't like.
Pitty eve used to be such a good game.
It would be nice if CCP took the time to justify their reasons for various nerfs rather than just restate the constant whines that have occurred on the forums, where CCP itself has said the forums only represent a minority of the players in eve yet CCP seems to be doing everything the forums whines about.
As such im instigating the lets nerf autopilot campaign. We don't really need autopilots anymore universe isn't that big and everyones got warp to zero now, So basicly its just making carebears lives easier to get around empire.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Roue
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:11:00 -
[2]
No way. Autopilot gets me a good 25% of my targets.
If you remove autopilot then people won't have the option to be lazy and AP around empire when they have a war dec. This is my opinion not that of privateer corp, alliance, its member corps, affiliates, minions, pet animals, ex girlfriends, former roommates, 3rd grade gym teachers, late relatives, ontime relatives, |
Dez Affinity
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:11:00 -
[3]
If you're referring to nanobattleships then shame on you for not noticing tht they are overpowered. WIthout a Huginn or two or some luck on the other players part you will never kill a nanophoon, simply because they don't ever need to come in web range and even if they do they will get out of scram range quite easily. Also known as an invincible ship tbh.
Things that are overpowered should not be nerfed? Right.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dez Affinity If you're referring to nanobattleships then shame on you for not noticing tht they are overpowered. WIthout a Huginn or two or some luck on the other players part you will never kill a nanophoon, simply because they don't ever need to come in web range and even if they do they will get out of scram range quite easily. Also known as an invincible ship tbh.
Things that are overpowered should not be nerfed? Right.
Nano ships were a problem I clearly admit that, not saying they weren't but the point is look at how ccp's tackled things. First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that. Nerfing isn't always the way, nano is now basicly a worthless module in anyway shape or form. A better way would have been to reduce the nano's effectiveness based on the size of the ship it was mounted on using a scaled percentage increase to velocity. Not exactly a challenging solution, but on ships where current situation is impossible due to nano's it would the module would be come near useless while on ships where it was perfectly fine such as smaller ships it would remain ok.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Dez Affinity
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Nano ships were a problem I clearly admit that, not saying they weren't but the point is look at how ccp's tackled things. First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that. Nerfing isn't always the way, nano is now basicly a worthless module in anyway shape or form. A better way would have been to reduce the nano's effectiveness based on the size of the ship it was mounted on using a scaled percentage increase to velocity. Not exactly a challenging solution, but on ships where current situation is impossible due to nano's it would the module would be come near useless while on ships where it was perfectly fine such as smaller ships it would remain ok.
Well WCS were just practically the same as nano's except less difficult to use and less effective. They needed some sort of nerfing, as soon as a guy started losing in PvP he would simply leave. You can't tell me that that is a fair tactic? I can't really say much about how the new nerfs have effected the modules because I honestly haven't looked at the changes in any detail. Nerfs happen in every game and it's just simply rebalancing the game. It needs to happen.
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Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ToxicFire As such im instigating the lets nerf autopilot campaign. We don't really need autopilots anymore universe isn't that big and everyones got warp to zero now, So basicly its just making carebears lives easier to get around empire.
wtf. I am in Aramachi. I want to go to Allamotte to get a ship. So what the hell, let's force me to sit infront of my computer for an hour clicking mindlessly, all the way there in a shuttle and all the way back in whatever.
What is your problem with carebears, or anyone, getting around Eve easier?
Oh, and don't whine about whiners. It makes you look like a whiner. ---
Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dez Affinity
Originally by: ToxicFire
Nano ships were a problem I clearly admit that, not saying they weren't but the point is look at how ccp's tackled things. First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that. Nerfing isn't always the way, nano is now basicly a worthless module in anyway shape or form. A better way would have been to reduce the nano's effectiveness based on the size of the ship it was mounted on using a scaled percentage increase to velocity. Not exactly a challenging solution, but on ships where current situation is impossible due to nano's it would the module would be come near useless while on ships where it was perfectly fine such as smaller ships it would remain ok.
Well WCS were just practically the same as nano's except less difficult to use and less effective. They needed some sort of nerfing, as soon as a guy started losing in PvP he would simply leave. You can't tell me that that is a fair tactic? I can't really say much about how the new nerfs have effected the modules because I honestly haven't looked at the changes in any detail. Nerfs happen in every game and it's just simply rebalancing the game. It needs to happen.
How wrong you are, Things get nerfed because there over powered. Your just bitter because u probably spent a lot og ISK on not being killed in your nano overpowered state.
Times change
cry me a river.
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:59:00 -
[8]
What's wrong with the autopilot now? Even before WTZ a frig+MWD could approach the gate and jump in less than five seconds (probably less than two), so that sure is a bad argument.
"In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio |
St Dragon
NexGen Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.18 16:59:00 -
[9]
I dont use the autopilot anymore i just set a destination and then use the warp to 0 thing. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Ksea Vholdor
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Nano ships were a problem I clearly admit that, not saying they weren't but the point is look at how ccp's tackled things. First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that. Nerfing isn't always the way, nano is now basicly a worthless module in anyway shape or form. A better way would have been to reduce the nano's effectiveness based on the size of the ship it was mounted on using a scaled percentage increase to velocity. Not exactly a challenging solution, but on ships where current situation is impossible due to nano's it would the module would be come near useless while on ships where it was perfectly fine such as smaller ships it would remain ok.
You have a point concerning nanos. As for WCS, do you know how irritating is to chase Vagabond that is roaming in your turf for 2 week, loose countless tackler ships and newer be able to catch him. Newer did the math, but my idea was to make it with CPU, PWG, or maybe/even CAP drawback. That way you would prevent PVP fitted ships to be able to fitt properly with WCS on. Drawback we have now somehow is hard to explain technologically, at least to me.
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Snake Doctor
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:22:00 -
[11]
The devblogs explain it all. In great detail...
Your mom goes to college... |
Redpants
Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:27:00 -
[12]
Are you kidding? And here I thought you were making good sense about the tonnage of *****ing on this forum about everything in this game, and how the very small percentage of the population in the form of forum dwellers wants to turn this game into something else. CCP has nothing else to go on since those who think the game is fine aren't going to come here and make a post about it.
And then you go in a riduculous direction with this autopilot bit. And if your intent was sarcastic irony it's not coming through well. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red." |
Dez Affinity
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Dez Affinity
Originally by: ToxicFire
Nano ships were a problem I clearly admit that, not saying they weren't but the point is look at how ccp's tackled things. First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that. Nerfing isn't always the way, nano is now basicly a worthless module in anyway shape or form. A better way would have been to reduce the nano's effectiveness based on the size of the ship it was mounted on using a scaled percentage increase to velocity. Not exactly a challenging solution, but on ships where current situation is impossible due to nano's it would the module would be come near useless while on ships where it was perfectly fine such as smaller ships it would remain ok.
Well WCS were just practically the same as nano's except less difficult to use and less effective. They needed some sort of nerfing, as soon as a guy started losing in PvP he would simply leave. You can't tell me that that is a fair tactic? I can't really say much about how the new nerfs have effected the modules because I honestly haven't looked at the changes in any detail. Nerfs happen in every game and it's just simply rebalancing the game. It needs to happen.
How wrong you are, Things get nerfed because there over powered. Your just bitter because u probably spent a lot og ISK on not being killed in your nano overpowered state.
Times change
cry me a river.
Did you mean to quote me or did you just think "I KNOW I'LL TROLL MINDLESSLY" because seriously, if you even bothered to read my post you would realise that I SAID it was overpowered, you would also realise that I thought it should be nerfed and you would realise you owe me an apology for being stupid.
I have never flown a nanobattleship and never intend to.
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Snake Doctor
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:34:00 -
[14]
Oh people do come to the forums to praise eve, but the threads necro QUICKLY in favor of "Umpteenth post about something 'wrong' with the game" by (Dude who didn't read the dev blogs)"
Your mom goes to college... |
Joebarchuck
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Posted - 2007.03.18 17:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ToxicFire I've been kinda busy past couple of weeks but just took a look at those patch notes and went.... ah so eve's turned into one of those games where they nerf everything the majority doesn't like.
Pitty eve used to be such a good game.
It would be nice if CCP took the time to justify their reasons for various nerfs rather than just restate the constant whines that have occurred on the forums, where CCP itself has said the forums only represent a minority of the players in eve yet CCP seems to be doing everything the forums whines about.
As such im instigating the lets nerf autopilot campaign. We don't really need autopilots anymore universe isn't that big and everyones got warp to zero now, So basicly its just making carebears lives easier to get around empire.
Insane is the OP, I do pve and pvp with 2 different ships, I do not have a jump clone in my pvp region so I go for 35 jumps on autopilot where I use the time to check contracts, market data, and my research jobs + on top of it, this autopilot gives me a good percentage of my kills.
So before saying stupid things, please think...
I say let the 0km jumping autopilot live...
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari GETCO
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Snake Doctor The devblogs explain it all. In great detail...
Snake is right. But for the OP who missed it:
It's not so much that CCP is playing "leapfrog" with all of the PvPers out there, but that they are tyring to keep the game realistic in the face of people who are trying to push that envelope. Nanofibers were an odd module to begin with; they reduced inertia and gave a fixed bonus to speed. Inertial Stabalizers reduced mass and inertia. This didn't make sense and the devs knew it. The fix being deployed will change this accordingly. Nanofibers were not supposed to turn battleships into interceptors. It's ridicelous looking and wasn't part of their vision of the game.
In accordiance with the idea that EVE is a high-stakes game where things are at risk, WCSs were a cheap way to avoid that. The idea was that when players entered battle, they put themselves at risk to do so. WCSs let any pilot warp away from an unfavorable fight, which nullified the tactics of the other side. Everyone called anyone who fitted a WCS on a combat ship a coward, and rightfully so. In my opinion the fix was excellent, as it gave blockade runners and transporters the tools they needed while heavily discourging it's use on combat ships.
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Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ToxicFire ...First we had people whining about WCS so CCP got around to nerfing them, then people compensated with Nanoship's so people whined and CCP nerfed, next it will people engine overloaders then MWD's then AB's CCP has gone from actively discussing solutions to a problem to simple heavy handed nerf this nerf that.
For someone who has been away for a while you certainly seem sure on what the devs said in devblogs, what threads they created on different forums and how long discussions have been going on.
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Teebee
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:15:00 -
[18]
This sucks so bad im new to the naonphoon and ive been practicing alot lately. The weakness is if u get webbed then you will die i mean there is a way nanophoon can die alot of ways but why make the nerf? Nano ships dont rep so come on now u web them they are dead just get a fast ship to tackle them. Also I have read interveiws on other mmorg sites and ccp has stated that they want the game to be more around PvP i mean if carebears complain about the nanophoon they should find a way to kill it! go learn to PvP! Ships like the nanophoon arnt that hardcore they cant realy hang with ships that do alot of damage or a prolonged fight because they will run out of cap boosters so those are the realistic nerfs. I wish ccp would just lower the percentages on instab - nano - rigs instead of this huge nerf.
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Zirth
Caldari The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:56:00 -
[19]
What is overpowered?
Cap boosters, been saying, well thinking it for months. A battlecruiser has about 1-5 base capacitor per second, a cap booster can add about 37 cap a second for 6 minutes.
But hey, I'm not complaining. The game is somewhat balanced on em nowadays for PvP, and it isn't as exclusive and invincible-making as nano-ships were. Everyone can get em and it's all good. Just that it's totally out of proportion with regular capacitor recharge rate I think.
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:02:00 -
[20]
One of the ideas behind ship differentiation is that you shouldn't have a class of ship that is utterly subsumed by another class (if, for the moment, we're ignoring T1/T2 differences). Frigates don't have all of the advantages of battleships, they can't mount anywhere near the firepower and don't have anything like the armor, but they have good speed and maneuverability and are just plain hard for big guys to hit.
Giving a battleship the maneuverability of a frigate - and speed far higher than you can achieve with one! - while still BEING a battleship with big guns and big armor... one doesn't see how that can be a game balance issue? Come on, be honest.
Frankly, CCP has a complicated and dynamic system going, and players have a big advantage to push the envelope as far as they can get away with. Inevitably, that's going to result in "nerfs". Stacking damage mods so that you can destroy a battlecruiser in a single salvo got nerfed, yet you don't see people calling for a return of the super sniper, d'you? ;p
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 18/03/2007 19:01:23
No. Autopilot is a good feature in eVe. I only wish CCP would allow WTZ on autopilot because it would save my mouse life expectancy. Every little click helps. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Evelyn Lavi
Independent Fleet O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ToxicFire I've been kinda busy past couple of weeks but just took a look at those patch notes and went.... ah so eve's turned into one of those games where they nerf everything the majority doesn't like.
Pitty eve used to be such a good game.
It would be nice if CCP took the time to justify their reasons for various nerfs rather than just restate the constant whines that have occurred on the forums, where CCP itself has said the forums only represent a minority of the players in eve yet CCP seems to be doing everything the forums whines about.
As such im instigating the lets nerf autopilot campaign. We don't really need autopilots anymore universe isn't that big and everyones got warp to zero now, So basicly its just making carebears lives easier to get around empire.
Why does every MMO in existence have to have these people that are rabidly against any sort of change? So much for the "game experience may change" clause on virtually every startup screen.
If CCP fully catered to this guy up here, we'd have battleships stuffed to the brim with heat sinks with no stacking penalty, jetcans could be spammed every second rather than every few minutes to deliberately cause lag, and the m0o blockade that held EVE hostage would never have been broken, which I might add had CONCORD npcs that were more than killable and no sentry guns. More than likely this game would have been dead by now.
The nanophoons and nanodomis are/were (they're about to be nerfed) all but invincible to anything less than more of themselves. If you need a parallel, in Star Wars Galaxies, when Jedi first came out, it would take thirty people poison and disease spam and a lot of luck to kill one of these retarded, overpowered alpha class characters. Sure, there's some sentimental powergamers that missed being indestructible and still bemoan the "good old days" in that now-dead game, but that's the stakes in EVE today.
Nos is likely to be nerfed next. Boo-freaking-hoo. Like the nanophoons, like the invincible, insta-toting, WCS-packed sniper so-called "pirates" before them, they were leeching the fun out of the game. Maybe not YOUR fun, but when the only counter to something is more of it (instas, anyone?) it's not good gameplay.
Yes, there are bad nerfs too, but the last nerfs have been good and necessary.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Darwin With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Teebee This sucks so bad im new to the naonphoon and ive been practicing alot lately. The weakness is if u get webbed then you will die i mean there is a way nanophoon can die alot of ways but why make the nerf? Nano ships dont rep so come on now u web them they are dead just get a fast ship to tackle them. Also I have read interveiws on other mmorg sites and ccp has stated that they want the game to be more around PvP i mean if carebears complain about the nanophoon they should find a way to kill it! go learn to PvP! Ships like the nanophoon arnt that hardcore they cant realy hang with ships that do alot of damage or a prolonged fight because they will run out of cap boosters so those are the realistic nerfs. I wish ccp would just lower the percentages on instab - nano - rigs instead of this huge nerf.
oh .. come on, don't be that naive.
nanophoon IS eve in easy-mode.
yeah .. i never flew it .. but then again i fly almost 100% of my time in-game interceptors. most of the time i do this solo.
nanophoon has the speed and agility of an interceptor, the hitpoints of a mediocre tanked BC (or non-tanked BS), a damage-output enough to compete with atleast BC sized ships ...
yes - you're trading the damage-output of a BS and a BS sized tank for the survivability due to speed of an interceptor with the damage-output of a BC.
interceptors are balanced - they are *really* paper thin and have to pick their fights. nanophoons are not - they are neither paper thin nor have to choose their fights (in the sense of target-class) ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Benefactor
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:14:00 -
[24]
Nanophoons, like someone said, really were the "jedi" of EVE. They had their passionate defenders, namely, people who minmaxed and metagamed to the very limit of a game mechanic's performance and found themselves on top, intoxicated by power and invulnerability.
Either you cater to this minority of people, making the game a race of "who can be leet fastest" and comparing absolutes of speed and agility in your battleships (which I might add looks very, very stupid in-game) or you can have a fun, playable PVP experience where frigates still have some marginal purpose other than "they are inexpensive and can blob."
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2007.03.18 20:31:00 -
[25]
I actually thought this was one of the least controversial patches in recent memory...
Are we really playing the same game?
signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior! |
Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.18 20:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 18/03/2007 20:31:33 I think they should nerf the ibis. Its clearly overpowerd. It has a 5m3 drone bay! ON A NEWBIE SHIP!
You could put a t2 light drone in there, and fit some ECM in your mid slot, and get a group of 10 ibises togeather who also have ECM and scrams/webs and a t2 drone, and you are basicaly going to own anything you come across.
Nerf the ibis.
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Tarminic
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Posted - 2007.03.18 21:34:00 -
[27]
Can I have your stuff?
It's true, I swear. |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.03.18 22:14:00 -
[28]
Just to make it clear to people the post was about CCP's recent course of nerf things people don't like rather than looking at alternatives, the autopilot part was meant to be a slightly sarcy comment about what shall we get nerfed next by whining on the forums it could have been expanded cargo holds and it wouldn't have made a difference it was just a point.
But back to the examples in hand nano ships, rather than rendering a module useless CCP could have provided a new toy to the offense add module like the interdictor sphere that covers an area that reduces the speed of any ship in the vicinity or if you want to add a more in depth way, have component targeting blow up a targets engines... nano's and gonna make a frickenn difference if your going no where anyway.
The entire point is CCP needs to focus on providing solutions to current issues (instead of nerfing everything) rather than purely focusing new content every few months and providing quick-fix solutions.
I mean look at how long it too CCP to fix the cloak - cyno issue, it was never a bug it was how CCP reused cloak code for cyno fields ending up with the inability to mount both modules. CCP even developed a ship that was designed to use both modules before they got around to fixing the issue. The whole mindset has changed into something thats not exactly nice anymore.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.03.18 22:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Evelyn Lavi
Originally by: ToxicFire stuff
Why does every MMO in existence have to have these people that are rabidly against any sort of change? So much for the "game experience may change" clause on virtually every startup screen.
If CCP fully catered to this guy up here, we'd have battleships stuffed to the brim with heat sinks with no stacking penalty, jetcans could be spammed every second rather than every few minutes to deliberately cause lag, and the m0o blockade that held EVE hostage would never have been broken, which I might add had CONCORD npcs that were more than killable and no sentry guns. More than likely this game would have been dead by now.
The nanophoons and nanodomis are/were (they're about to be nerfed) all but invincible to anything less than more of themselves. If you need a parallel, in Star Wars Galaxies, when Jedi first came out, it would take thirty people poison and disease spam and a lot of luck to kill one of these retarded, overpowered alpha class characters. Sure, there's some sentimental powergamers that missed being indestructible and still bemoan the "good old days" in that now-dead game, but that's the stakes in EVE today.
Nos is likely to be nerfed next. Boo-freaking-hoo. Like the nanophoons, like the invincible, insta-toting, WCS-packed sniper so-called "pirates" before them, they were leeching the fun out of the game. Maybe not YOUR fun, but when the only counter to something is more of it (instas, anyone?) it's not good gameplay.
Yes, there are bad nerfs too, but the last nerfs have been good and necessary.
If you'd like to read the post by me just a couple of posts below the op, rather than knee jerk commenting you'd see Im pro change... pro change that isn't mindless nerfing. Im not one of those people that is against any sort of change in mmo's heck its quite ironic because im playing the otherside of the fence in neocron at the moment which has just undergone a big change im calming down the people who want to reverse all the changes etc. Changes have to be made but they need to be the right changes nano's may aswell be deleted from the database after the patch there gonna be that unused.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Lorth
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.18 22:29:00 -
[30]
The thing is, many people don't see something that they themselves use as overpowered. Or they do, and simply won't admit to it because they are benifiting because of it.
Stab's were overpowered. And for the record, though I complained about them, I did use them in a few situations my self. I think the issue has been done to death now, so there's no point in explaining why.
Nano's and i-stabs are overpowers in many of the same ways that stab were in thier day. And though yes I have a couple nano set ups, I'm going to have to say that they are over powered.
We have seen the same thing pretty much every single time something has been nerfed, going all the way back to frigs with cruise missiles. But to be honest, even though I wasn't really happy about many of the nerfs, mostly because I was using these set ups my self, I have to say they are good for the game. I miss my 10mnAB, on my claw, and my duel mwd raven, and my gank-a-XXX, but the game is much more fun now that set ups like this are gone, even if it reduces the varity a little.
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