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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 08:43:05 -
[1] - Quote
I find it highly irritating that their are no module options for anything stronger than +1 warp core stabilization.
Attackers on the other hand get a whole slew of warp scram and disruption options: +1 disrupt, +2 scram (and MWD burn away disabled), +3 Faction Scram, +5 Scram (MNI + faction scram), etc.
This is an obvious isk burning mechanic for CCP... but it is completely unbalanced and unfair to those activities outside of active pvp.
!! PLEASE BALANCE OUT THIS MECHANIC CCP !!
OPTIONS: - Add +2 warp core stab modules. - Add +3 Faction warp core stab modules. - Add module that nullifies web modules. - Enhanced +1 warp core stabs that nullify a scrams effect on MWD speed. This also nullifies web module effects. But not if double webbed. Webbing really need a +1 / +2 / +3 mechanic if it can be nullified. - Put a +2 warp disruption max rating limit on ships smaller than cruisers. If a frigate equips +3 faction scram, it gets +2 but still benefits from the extra range and other benefits. This is mainly because ships smaller than cruisers dont have the low slots to equip 3 stabs to combat one module and still be effective at whatever they want to do.
Overall, a balanced warp disruption / stabilization mechanic will encourage more highsec travelers to venture into low/null sec systems for non-pvp activities. - It will even encourage more players to learn low / null sec pvp. Newer players will have more confidence to learn pvp because they know they can be equipped to get out of a 1v1 fight. Small gangs / fleets though will still have no problems tackling & wrecking. This encourages more group / fleet gameplay being that solo tackle can be nullified by someone who is equipped to resist it. - It will also generate more interaction between players and balance out server loads by spreading everyone out homogeneously. Imagine faction warfare in all plexing lowsec systems instead of just Tama to Akidagi.
Please, Please, Please fix this asap!! I am so tired of being double stabbed in a frigate and getting faction scrammed by one module. I cant warp, I cant burn away, and I cant fight back because I have salvagers and a cloak equipped. I have no choice but to sit there for 2 minutes and fall asleep as some other frigate slowly destroys my ship with their weak guns. Its nothing but cheater mode for sucky pvp wannabes.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45073
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Posted - 2016.09.15 08:45:37 -
[2] - Quote
In what situations:
1. FW plexing, or 2. Mining?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:08:20 -
[3] - Quote
My issue is not with a particular gameplay activity, its that one frigate can equip a single +3 faction scram and overpower my frigate which is double stabbed. 90% of frigates only have 3 lows so if I ran three stabs, my ship is now completely useless because I have no lows for damage control / nanofibers / damage enhancers or anything else that would have made my ship useful.
Bottom line, its a 1 to 3 module fit requirement, not even counting the situations where you run into a maulus. A frigate does not even have enough lows to nullify a maulus. If its a transport or salvager, its pretty much automatic death. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3520
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:09:06 -
[4] - Quote
The person with the warp disrupt has to appear in local, appear on d-scan, land at the gate, warp AGAIN, land again, then get in range and lock you and then have more disrupt str than you have warp core str, then they have shoot you. The system is massively in favour of the wannabe evader, especially if you are paying attention.
Rather than expecting attackers to have to group up, why shouldn't you learn to make friends and defend yourself?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:18:35 -
[5] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The person with the warp disrupt has to appear in local, appear on d-scan, land at the gate, warp AGAIN, land again, then get in range and lock you and then have more disrupt str than you have warp core str, then they have shoot you. The system is massively in favour of the wannabe evader, especially if you are paying attention.
Rather than expecting attackers to have to group up, why shouldn't you learn to make friends and defend yourself?
LOL!! You make it sound so hard for tacklers. You are obviously a tackler. Most frigates to frigate lock times are much faster than align + warp, especially if you are in a tech II, tech III tackle frigate.
It doesn't really matter though. The balance needs to be in the modules and most of what you say is mute to the issue.
By the way, Low / Null Sec salvagers dont usually form fleets. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45073
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:23:10 -
[6] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:My issue is not with a particular gameplay activity, its that one frigate can equip a single +3 faction scram and overpower my frigate which is double stabbed. 90% of frigates only have 3 lows so if I ran three stabs, my ship is now completely useless because I have no lows for damage control / nanofibers / damage enhancers or anything else that would have made my ship useful.
Bottom line, its a 1 to 3 module fit requirement, not even counting the situations where you run into a maulus. A frigate does not even have enough lows to nullify a maulus. If its a transport or salvager, its pretty much automatic death. That may be your view, but I disagree about there being an issue of imbalance. Imbalance yes, but not an issue.
If warp disruption couldn't be stronger than warp core strength, then warp stabs would be way OP.
Balance in this case requires some advantage to warp disruption for it to be effective at all.
However, happy to help with advice for specific situations, hence the previous post.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Valkin Mordirc
2508
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:35:49 -
[7] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:My issue is not with a particular gameplay activity, its that one frigate can equip a single +3 faction scram and overpower my frigate which is double stabbed. 90% of frigates only have 3 lows so if I ran three stabs, my ship is now completely useless because I have no lows for damage control / nanofibers / damage enhancers or anything else that would have made my ship useful.
Bottom line, its a 1 to 3 module fit requirement, not even counting the situations where you run into a maulus. A frigate does not even have enough lows to nullify a maulus. If its a transport or salvager, its pretty much automatic death.
WCS are meant for you to run away. If you could run away and tank, or have dps while being able to avoid any and all fights would be broken.
No.
EDIT: I am upset that my shield tank Moa can't have a full tank plus tackle and web. And my Maller can't really have any DPS since all his armor mods go into the lows.
Obviously I shield have low slot shield mods and mid slot armor mods.
For it be balanced.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:38:06 -
[8] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:My issue is not with a particular gameplay activity, its that one frigate can equip a single +3 faction scram and overpower my frigate which is double stabbed. 90% of frigates only have 3 lows so if I ran three stabs, my ship is now completely useless because I have no lows for damage control / nanofibers / damage enhancers or anything else that would have made my ship useful.
Bottom line, its a 1 to 3 module fit requirement, not even counting the situations where you run into a maulus. A frigate does not even have enough lows to nullify a maulus. If its a transport or salvager, its pretty much automatic death. That may be your view, but I disagree about there being an issue of imbalance. Imbalance yes, but not an issue. If warp disruption couldn't be stronger than warp core strength, then warp stabs would be way OP. Balance in this case requires some advantage to warp disruption for it to be effective at all. However, happy to help with advice for specific situations, hence the previous post.
Why do you assume that predators should get the advantage in the situation? Most pvp players dont even use more than one stab because they are actively looking for a fight. It should be that you either equip for tackle against those who resist it or you equip for high damage against those who do not chose to resist it. You should not get both. Especially, anything under a crusier should not be able to get +3 scram in one module.
Faction scram should benefit range, and only provide +3 to cruisers or higher. Its just to OP against any other frigates who want to resist against it. |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3457
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:41:26 -
[9] - Quote
i wish there was counter to mwd+cloak trick....
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3521
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:41:58 -
[10] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:
LOL!! You make it sound so hard for tacklers. You are obviously a tackler. Most frigates to frigate lock times are much faster than align + warp, especially if you are in a tech II, tech III tackle frigate.
It doesn't really matter though. The balance needs to be in the modules and most of what you say is mute to the issue.
By the way, Low / Null Sec salvagers dont usually form fleets.
I am obviously a tackler? Tech 3 tackler frig? Pvp players use one stab? Oh dear.
There are more options for evading than just fitting warp core stabs. There are tricks to getting through low sec without even being locked and if you do use d-scan you have plenty of time to react to incoming frigates. Yes even the fast ones.
I disagree the balance needs to be in the modules considering all the options there are to avoid fights. And why shouldn't salvagers form fleets? Why should tacklers form fleets?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:43:29 -
[11] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:My issue is not with a particular gameplay activity, its that one frigate can equip a single +3 faction scram and overpower my frigate which is double stabbed. 90% of frigates only have 3 lows so if I ran three stabs, my ship is now completely useless because I have no lows for damage control / nanofibers / damage enhancers or anything else that would have made my ship useful.
Bottom line, its a 1 to 3 module fit requirement, not even counting the situations where you run into a maulus. A frigate does not even have enough lows to nullify a maulus. If its a transport or salvager, its pretty much automatic death. WCS are meant for you to run away. If you could run away and tank, or have dps while being able to avoid any and all fights would be broken. No. EDIT: I am upset that my shield tank Moa can't have a full tank plus tackle and web. And my Maller can't really have any DPS since all his armor mods go into the lows. Obviously I shield have low slot shield mods and mid slot armor mods. For it be balanced.
Not all ships are meant to have everything. There are different roles that certain ships play and there is nothing wrong with that. That really has nothing to do with this issue. |
Valkin Mordirc
2508
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:44:51 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Not all ships are meant to have everything. There are different roles that certain ships play and there is nothing wrong with that. That really has nothing to do with this issue.
That hypocrisy.
So a ship can't have full DPS tank, plus tackle.
But it can have Tank DPS and a +5 WCS?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
0
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Posted - 2016.09.15 09:48:36 -
[13] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i wish there was counter to mwd+cloak trick....
There is... Its called uncloking by getting within 2000m... :) Please stop wandering off into the abyss with side topics that are not meaningful to this specific topic. |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3457
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Posted - 2016.09.15 10:05:35 -
[14] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lan Wang wrote:i wish there was counter to mwd+cloak trick.... There is... Its called uncloking by getting within 2000m... :) Please stop wandering off into the abyss with side topics that are not meaningful to this specific topic.
its on topic, there is plenty of ways to run away, use them and stop moaning
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
91
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Posted - 2016.09.15 10:13:05 -
[15] - Quote
Unclocking overclocking declocking.... why suddenly talking about that OP? ... Fly a venture. Gets 2 wcs by default or supercap i heard they get some wcs too.
Make a newbro foundation started @ here
Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
421
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Posted - 2016.09.15 11:11:09 -
[16] - Quote
Good lord this thread isn't even on page 2 and it's a trainwreck already... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18078
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Posted - 2016.09.15 12:02:54 -
[17] - Quote
Should we tell him about hic's now or wait for the explosive whine thread when he encounters one for himself?
Click me
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
422
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Posted - 2016.09.15 12:07:58 -
[18] - Quote
What about bubbles then? |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
830
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Posted - 2016.09.15 12:15:34 -
[19] - Quote
scrams effect on MWD has a counter OP....its called AB. Very general rule of thumb, sometimes valid but not always. AB low sec, MWD 0.0. 0.0 need MWD for when (not if) you hit bubbles. Maybe you make it out, maybe you don't. At least you can try.
Low sec AB can be a good thing since often times scram fit to tackle and slow you down if MWD fit. Call it a half assed hybrid of tackle and web if you will...and frees up a mid slot that would be web otherwise.
You are slower with AB, yes. But you are faster than if scrammed with a MWD.
Dual prop if truly paranoid. Or oversized prop a thing possible with some creative fitting on some ships.
Also imo WCS is for travel fits. Your ass is going gate to gate to gate to station. It is not a sit in the middle of space fit. Unless farming FW plexes, they like this I hear. This should have been obvious since your targeting range goes to crap. Its about useless imo for anything besides gtfo moves all night long. . |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18081
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Posted - 2016.09.15 12:28:18 -
[20] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:What about bubbles then? Let him figure it out I think.
Click me
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Rawmeat Mary
Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department
150
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Posted - 2016.09.15 14:09:28 -
[21] - Quote
Looking at the OP's killboard is... painful.
OP, losing the same ship again and again and again 2 to 4 time/day in similar situations should enlighten you that you are doing something wrong. Repetition upon repetition in similar situations and hoping for different results is one definition of madness, get out of that loop before it is too late.
Also, maybe you should train up your Cloak/MWD skill.
Or stop trying to sccop wrecks and corpse on gates in Black Rise.
Or stop doing exploration in Black Rise altogether. There are quieter places.
Edit: 1st on p.2
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1889
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Posted - 2016.09.15 16:34:23 -
[22] - Quote
Although this is quite an obvious troll, here is why I think the modules are balanced the way they are:
CCP does not like people avoiding pvp.
The end
Art of Explosions
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4765
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Posted - 2016.09.15 17:48:05 -
[23] - Quote
OP, do you honestly believe anyone who actually PVPs fits stabs while doing so?
Aren't the scanres/lock range penalties enough to show you the things are not meant for combat ships? |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1093
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:40:18 -
[24] - Quote
Dude just train covert ops cloaks and ships.
They are practically impossible to catch in lowsec, and a skilled pilot can use them to effortlessly break many hardened nullsec camps with a little finesse.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
420
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Posted - 2016.09.16 02:16:54 -
[25] - Quote
Can i just point out you used the word "Fair" in EVE OP?
GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú
This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18100
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Posted - 2016.09.16 02:18:46 -
[26] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Can i just point out you used the word "Fair" in EVE OP? yeah, his next thread should be good
Click me
=]|[=
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Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
420
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Posted - 2016.09.16 02:23:29 -
[27] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:Can i just point out you used the word "Fair" in EVE OP? yeah, his next thread should be good
Counting the Nanoseconds
GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú
This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
558
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Posted - 2016.09.16 02:28:44 -
[28] - Quote
Sorry, have to post it...
++ Warp Core Stabsilizers hurt everyone ++ |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3116
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Posted - 2016.09.16 03:05:53 -
[29] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:Can i just point out you used the word "Fair" in EVE OP? yeah, his next thread should be good Counting the Nanoseconds
oi eve is fair
we all start off with the same isk and the same sp
BLOPS Hauler
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
461
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Posted - 2016.09.16 07:11:41 -
[30] - Quote
About the only WCS change that I could get behind is an Active Mid Slot Module for +2 Strength with sufficiently high activation that it would be easily turned off by Neuts/NOS(think MWD/AB Cap usage). |
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