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Matar Ronin
1530
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:04:36 -
[1] - Quote
To all interested freedom loving capsuleers:
We are planning a roam and attack event for the 27th of this month.
Fully fit ships and ordinance will be provided at no cost to you.
We strongly urge that your implants be of little cost because they are likely to be lost.
Our activities will result in you losing some security standings so be forewarned.
Sign up and positioning yourself in the designated staging system in advance of 09/27 is mandatory for participation.
Location and time will be announced to respondents.
For security purposes specific details shall not be posted here on IGS.
For more information or to ask questions please contact Matar Ronin via mail.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1615
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:09:09 -
[2] - Quote
Transparent as a pane of glass.
You're going to attempt to engage the Amarr loyalist fleet at the Coronation.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1319
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:12:26 -
[3] - Quote
Pilots, we're planning something, something big, but it totally doesn't have anything to do with the big event going on that day at all, nope, not one bit. It's all hush hush, but please do come along and join in, it'll be big! (But really, it's got nothing to do with the other big thing going on that day, promise.)
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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William Danneskjold
89
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:18:35 -
[4] - Quote
You may as well have posted "SECRET PLANS PLEASE DONT LOOK AT THEM"
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
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Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy RED University
98
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:29:36 -
[5] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:You may as well have posted "SECRET PLANS PLEASE DONT LOOK AT THEM"
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
.
Vollhov Jr - Alexander Volhov
Vollhov - Konstantin Volhov (Is Dead)
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Yarosara Ruil
608
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Posted - 2016.09.15 20:29:57 -
[6] - Quote
Terrorists usually aren't this dumb... |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1617
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Posted - 2016.09.15 20:31:35 -
[7] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Terrorists usually aren't this dumb...
Maybe that's what they want you to think !
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1342
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Posted - 2016.09.15 20:55:52 -
[8] - Quote
Watch it be an attack on something completely different, using the coronation as a diversion.... Then again maybe that's what he wants you to think. Or not... |
Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
133
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:26:36 -
[9] - Quote
Is this a ratings thing? I had planned on avoiding all news coverage of the event, but now I don't think I could stay away! This is a ratings thing, isn't it? |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
440
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:34:37 -
[10] - Quote
Please contract my free ships to Amarr - Emperor Family Academy.
Thanks in advance! |
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1348
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:37:18 -
[11] - Quote
Think we know who the spy in the fleet is... |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
444
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:39:35 -
[12] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Think we know who the spy in the fleet is...
He promised ships and ordinance if I show up! |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1348
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Posted - 2016.09.15 21:42:20 -
[13] - Quote
I think he's assuming you'll show up in person to get them. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6365
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Posted - 2016.09.15 23:52:53 -
[14] - Quote
Wonder which single ship his roam is going to target before Concord swoops in to restore order?
What is it with Minmatar and losing huge fleets in Amarrian high security space?
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2219
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Posted - 2016.09.15 23:59:20 -
[15] - Quote
Geeze, man, be a little more subtle, won't you?
First, you don't have a clear goal in mind. You think you do, but you don't. Disruption of attending forces won't achieve anything. If you want to go do 'something' to further your agenda (yours, specifically, not mine, not pretty much every other Matari's I know) that day, you need to hit the one single target that will matter - and you don't even know if that target's actually going to be in space.
Besides, you don't have enough ships. At most, you'll pick off a few bystanders. Congratulations, you've attacked nobody whose death will achieve any of your goals unless your only goal is to get CONCORDed.
How do I know you won't have enough ships? Because knowing how many ships you'll need is my job. Remember when you said I, of course, had no knowledge of strategic planning and decision making?
Hello, my name is Arrendis Culome, a Director of Goonswarm Federation. My primary responsibility is doctrinal design as a member of our Fitting Team, with secondary responsibilities including the training and coordination of fleet logistics and logistics leads for all combat operations. Oh, and strategic planning is in there somewhere, too.
So, yeah. It's my job to run the numbers on the scenarios everyone thinks 'heh, we should totally go do...' but have no idea how far they're actually short of being at all capable of achieving.
Here are the numbers (we'll stay nice and vague because we don't want to be shouting OH MY GOD MATAR RONIN WANTS TO TRY TO POP THE EMPRESS AND MAKE HER A BLOODY MARTYR or anything):
With the minor assumption of standard Command Ship boosts, and a pilot with implants equivalent to those used by the late Empress, the only target on the field that will matter - IF THERE EVEN IS ONE - will be running at a minimum structural value of between 51 and 85 million.
Minimum.
You will get one shot. Before you can even hope to cycle for a second, CONCORD will be on-site and every ship you have will begin the process of becoming a fine particulate mist.
You will need to use turrets, not missiles, because flight time will allow the target's support fleet to begin rendering remote assistance, and munitions application will take place over the standard 3-8 second window that occurs with distributed firing control (ie: multiple people in a fleet).
Computer modelling and field artillery tests both place the maximum structural degradation available in a single volley from a subcapital vessel at just under 12,000 rating. The most cost-effective platform for this is the Tornado-class battlecruiser, but the Maelstrom, Tempest, and Vargur all come in at roughly the same rating.
Those numbers mean that you would need approximately 4,250 Tornados, assuming every pilot is a perfect shot, and there's no window for remote assistance. For actual observed pilot performance in New Eden, you'd need roughly twice that. That's a price tag, by the way, of just shy of 1.1T ISK.
That also assumes nobody locks the target early, prompting a response from the support fleet. It also assumes the target is not, in fact, fitted with a Capital Emergency Hull Energizer, because I promise you, as soon as the first idiot fires, that's getting activated, and the rest of your idiots are just going to be pissing into a windstorm.
And yes, these numbers were all worked out well in advance. It's always good to know what kind of moves someone else might make, and it can't be denied that if one of the nullsec groups were to do what you're certainly not trying to hint at, that would send a clear message as to that group's capabilities. As there's been no mass movement of Tornado hulls, we're reasonably sure no serious efforts are going to be made by any of the other null blocs to 'make a statement'.
If the system were accessible to capital travel, it might be more of a concern, but realistically, barring another intervention by the monsters in Anoikis, the most anyone can really offer is a little bit of a fireworks display as CONCORD blows you to little pieces. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2254
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Posted - 2016.09.16 00:04:53 -
[16] - Quote
Not ALL Minmatar, Pilot Tuulinen. Personally I have no particular desire to go into Amarrian high sec and be hounded by their navy due to my standings nor make myself a target of their roaming militia on their home field.
Let the imperials have their day and enjoy themselves. Besides, there are plenty of easily accessible targets to be hunted in the war zone.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
136
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Posted - 2016.09.16 00:31:19 -
[17] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Geeze, man, be a little more subtle, won't you?
First, you don't have a clear goal in mind. You think you do, but you don't. Disruption of attending forces won't achieve anything. If you want to go do 'something' to further your agenda (yours, specifically, not mine, not pretty much every other Matari's I know) that day, you need to hit the one single target that will matter - and you don't even know if that target's actually going to be in space.
Besides, you don't have enough ships. At most, you'll pick off a few bystanders. Congratulations, you've attacked nobody whose death will achieve any of your goals unless your only goal is to get CONCORDed.
How do I know you won't have enough ships? Because knowing how many ships you'll need is my job. Remember when you said I, of course, had no knowledge of strategic planning and decision making?
Hello, my name is Arrendis Culome, a Director of Goonswarm Federation. My primary responsibility is doctrinal design as a member of our Fitting Team, with secondary responsibilities including the training and coordination of fleet logistics and logistics leads for all combat operations. Oh, and strategic planning is in there somewhere, too.
So, yeah. It's my job to run the numbers on the scenarios everyone thinks 'heh, we should totally go do...' but have no idea how far they're actually short of being at all capable of achieving.
Here are the numbers (we'll stay nice and vague because we don't want to be shouting OH MY GOD MATAR RONIN WANTS TO TRY TO POP THE EMPRESS AND MAKE HER A BLOODY MARTYR or anything):
With the minor assumption of standard Command Ship boosts, and a pilot with implants equivalent to those used by the late Empress, the only target on the field that will matter - IF THERE EVEN IS ONE - will be running at a minimum structural value of between 51 and 85 million.
Minimum.
You will get one shot. Before you can even hope to cycle for a second, CONCORD will be on-site and every ship you have will begin the process of becoming a fine particulate mist.
You will need to use turrets, not missiles, because flight time will allow the target's support fleet to begin rendering remote assistance, and munitions application will take place over the standard 3-8 second window that occurs with distributed firing control (ie: multiple people in a fleet).
Computer modelling and field artillery tests both place the maximum structural degradation available in a single volley from a subcapital vessel at just under 12,000 rating. The most cost-effective platform for this is the Tornado-class battlecruiser, but the Maelstrom, Tempest, and Vargur all come in at roughly the same rating.
Those numbers mean that you would need approximately 4,250 Tornados, assuming every pilot is a perfect shot, and there's no window for remote assistance. For actual observed pilot performance in New Eden, you'd need roughly twice that. That's a price tag, by the way, of just shy of 1.1T ISK.
That also assumes nobody locks the target early, prompting a response from the support fleet. It also assumes the target is not, in fact, fitted with a Capital Emergency Hull Energizer, because I promise you, as soon as the first idiot fires, that's getting activated, and the rest of your idiots are just going to be pissing into a windstorm.
And yes, these numbers were all worked out well in advance. It's always good to know what kind of moves someone else might make, and it can't be denied that if one of the nullsec groups were to do what you're certainly not trying to hint at, that would send a clear message as to that group's capabilities. As there's been no mass movement of Tornado hulls, we're reasonably sure no serious efforts are going to be made by any of the other null blocs to 'make a statement'.
If the system were accessible to capital travel, it might be more of a concern, but realistically, barring another intervention by the monsters in Anoikis, the most anyone can really offer is a little bit of a fireworks display as CONCORD blows you to little pieces.
I cried at the beauty of this. Just real pro-level stuff. It'll probably fall on deaf ears as to it's intended target, but from the bottom of my heart as someone who's dealing with logistics on a much smaller scale, this is gorgeous. |
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
187
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Posted - 2016.09.16 00:33:52 -
[18] - Quote
Please don't do this, Matar Ronin. Don't slaughter Matari crews for a fool's errand. |
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy RED University
99
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 00:52:38 -
[19] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:Please don't do this, Matar Ronin. Don't slaughter Matari crews for a fool's errand. How did you in the past retake your freedom How do you exist as a state
Now I begin to understand his brother. That's why he did not accept part in the war against you.
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
.
Vollhov Jr - Alexander Volhov
Vollhov - Konstantin Volhov (Is Dead)
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1352
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 01:01:56 -
[20] - Quote
Vollhov Jr wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:Please don't do this, Matar Ronin. Don't slaughter Matari crews for a fool's errand. How did you in the past retake your freedom How do you exist as a state Now I begin to understand his brother. That's why he did not accept part in the war against you. By taking advantage of opportunity when the time was right to achieve a goal. In this particular thing the opportunity and the time are aligned, is the goal? Don't think we TRULY know the goal so hard to say aside from speculation. |
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Alizabeth Vea
Newelle Family
876
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Posted - 2016.09.16 01:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Pretty much everything right. My cute, redheaded friend has already said the right of it. None of the nullsec groups are able to achieve such a goal.
Unlike Arrendis, I, on the other hand, would be amused at you attempt to kill the Empress. I am sure her Majesty would enjoy the fireworks show.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy RED University
99
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Posted - 2016.09.16 01:21:14 -
[22] - Quote
Why shoot for capsuleers loyalists? Open fire on the Imperial Navy. CONCORD will not be able declare you a criminal, as it is not in their jurisdiction.
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
.
Vollhov Jr - Alexander Volhov
Vollhov - Konstantin Volhov (Is Dead)
|
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy RED University
99
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 01:25:15 -
[23] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Arrendis wrote:Pretty much everything right. My cute, redheaded friend has already said the right of it. None of the nullsec groups are able to achieve such a goal. Unlike Arrendis, I, on the other hand, would be amused at you attempt to kill the Empress. I am sure her Majesty would enjoy the fireworks show.
Murder Jamyl Sarum for you, too, it was funny What you did not protect her, if you are confident in yourself Just because drifters are not interested in your fake Empress Well then rejoice for this fact, that is not a threat drifters Empire.
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
.
Vollhov Jr - Alexander Volhov
Vollhov - Konstantin Volhov (Is Dead)
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2224
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 01:35:41 -
[24] - Quote
Vollhov Jr wrote:Why shoot for capsuleers loyalists? Open fire on the Imperial Navy. CONCORD will not be able declare you a criminal, as it is not in their jurisdiction.
Aaaand achieve nothing.
There will be Navy supercapitals on the field, I'm sure. That means there will be Navy Apostles on the field.
That means that unless you're just popping frigates with a horde of Thrashers, you won't do more than scratch your target's paint.
Any time triage is on the field - especially now, with the new hulls - you will not break the reps with a few dozen disposable ships unless you can alpha the target. If you're set up for alphastrikes, you sacrifice the ability to shoot at a second target before the nearest Aeon hits you with warp disruption burst projector (and if you think the Imperial Navy can't use its area-denial weaponry in high-sec, you're more of an idiot than any of us could suspect), another hits you with target illiumination burst projector, and the bombers light up your entire fleet and turn you to ash. |
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
19
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Posted - 2016.09.16 01:50:27 -
[25] - Quote
I think this might properly be understood as a horrible and stupid distraction and that people should more rightly look to the market for opportunistic cornering runs on resources that aren't involved in suiting up for being blapped a lot by holy Amarr martyrs ho on that day above all will be keen for it.
What I mean is--things that are critical to building things that don't blap Amarr ships? Invest in those now. |
Vollhov Jr
SOERI Academy RED University
99
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Posted - 2016.09.16 01:50:57 -
[26] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Vollhov Jr wrote:Why shoot for capsuleers loyalists? Open fire on the Imperial Navy. CONCORD will not be able declare you a criminal, as it is not in their jurisdiction. Aaaand achieve nothing. There will be Navy supercapitals on the field, I'm sure. That means there will be Navy Apostles on the field. That means that unless you're just popping frigates with a horde of Thrashers, you won't do more than scratch your target's paint. Any time triage is on the field - especially now, with the new hulls - you will not break the reps with a few dozen disposable ships unless you can alpha the target. If you're set up for alphastrikes, you sacrifice the ability to shoot at a second target before the nearest Aeon hits you with warp disruption burst projector (and if you think the Imperial Navy can't use its area-denial weaponry in high-sec, you're more of an idiot than any of us could suspect), another hits you with target illiumination burst projector, and the bombers light up your entire fleet and turn you to ash.
I do not plan to. I hope that the Purists are not stupid. And they do not strike at the coronation. It would be foolish. The beat should be at the command of the Navy. And most importantly necessary develop centers propogandy within the Empire. Search for allies among the Great Houses.
August 21 117:
Jamyl Sarum: 'Final Journey'
My elder brother: Vollhov
.
Vollhov Jr - Alexander Volhov
Vollhov - Konstantin Volhov (Is Dead)
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6366
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 03:09:21 -
[27] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Not ALL Minmatar, Pilot Tuulinen. Personally I have no particular desire to go into Amarrian high sec and be hounded by their navy due to my standings nor make myself a target of their roaming militia on their home field.
Let the imperials have their day and enjoy themselves. Besides, there are plenty of easily accessible targets to be hunted in the war zone. Precise assessment. As Arrendis has said, you'd get exactly one shot to make it anything other than a futile gesture.
I can't comment on her numbers. I prefer engagements that are actually winnable.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2224
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 03:17:04 -
[28] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I can't comment on her numbers. I prefer engagements that are actually winnable.
So do I. But the key to winning the unwinnable engagement is knowing why you shouldn't. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
264
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Posted - 2016.09.16 09:19:06 -
[29] - Quote
Felise Selunix wrote:
I cried at the beauty of this. Just real pro-level stuff. It'll probably fall on deaf ears as to it's intended target, but from the bottom of my heart as someone who's dealing with logistics on a much smaller scale, this is gorgeous.
In an earlier thread, you implied that any fool who could organise a dinner party could understand logistics. On the simplest of levels, it's a reasonable intuition.
Director Arrendis however, demonstrates the truth of the ancient Gallente saying: "The amateurs discuss tactics. The professionals study logistics."
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1532
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 09:25:22 -
[30] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Wonder which single ship his roam is going to target before Concord swoops in to restore order?
What is it with Minmatar and losing huge fleets in Amarrian high security space?
Hot heads and zero sense, my man. It seems that some of us Matari gunslingers learnt absolutely nothing from Colelie.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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