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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1537
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Posted - 2016.09.16 11:06:03 -
[31] - Quote
Noted. We will be ready.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
1135
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Posted - 2016.09.16 11:50:15 -
[32] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Terrorists usually aren't this dumb...
That's what makes them different from Freedom Fighters.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
140
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Posted - 2016.09.16 12:54:36 -
[33] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Felise Selunix wrote:
I cried at the beauty of this. Just real pro-level stuff. It'll probably fall on deaf ears as to it's intended target, but from the bottom of my heart as someone who's dealing with logistics on a much smaller scale, this is gorgeous.
In an earlier thread, you implied that any fool who could organise a dinner party could understand logistics. On the simplest of levels, it's a reasonable intuition. Director Arrendis however, demonstrates the truth of the ancient Gallente saying: "The amateurs discuss tactics. The professionals study logistics."
True that. I thought of a saying in my clan that pops up whenever some young upstart starts crowing that they're ready to run a whole store: "You've got what it takes to run any till anywhere dear, except for mine." |
Ilan Ardishapur
Purity of the Throne
2
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Posted - 2016.09.16 13:08:50 -
[34] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:To all interested freedom loving capsuleers:
We are planning a roam and attack event for the 27th of this month.
Fully fit ships and ordinance will be provided at no cost to you.
We strongly urge that your implants be of little cost because they are likely to be lost.
Our activities will result in you losing some security standings so be forewarned.
Sign up and positioning yourself in the designated staging system in advance of 09/27 is mandatory for participation.
Location and time will be announced to respondents.
For security purposes specific details shall not be posted here on IGS.
For more information or to ask questions please contact Matar Ronin via mail.
Stay out of this Tribal. Even with the disgraceful pretender parading as Empress you and your ilk have no chance to achieve anything. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1352
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Posted - 2016.09.16 13:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Pretty sure your fight doesn't have a chance either. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2836
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Posted - 2016.09.16 14:51:11 -
[36] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Terrorists usually aren't this dumb... Terrorists are inefficient amateur forces, trying only to cause havoc and fear. They often attack insignificant civilian installation instead of going for meaningful targets.
But if you have a terrorist who is also a primitive tribal, Ms. Ruil, you can have quite unintelligent result of such a fusion.
In any way, terrorists are and never were a serious issue. All their attempts are in vain, since whatever they will destroy, it won't affect neither our resolve nor our ability to crush them down. And shall they decide to meet (or most probably will meet by mistake) our regular forces - they will be done with.
Glory to the State!
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2228
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Posted - 2016.09.16 15:03:28 -
[37] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Director Arrendis
Please, just 'Arrendis'. The only reason I even mentioned my position was to forestall Matar Ronin's inevitable 'what does a line Goon know, anyway?' like he tried to pull in the other discussion.
Desiderya wrote:Yarosara Ruil wrote:Terrorists usually aren't this dumb... That's what makes them different from Freedom Fighters.
Nah, that's just a question of which side you're on. Successful terrorists, though... they're not this dumb. Which explains much about Ronin... |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
1135
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Posted - 2016.09.16 15:06:41 -
[38] - Quote
Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2837
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Posted - 2016.09.16 15:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards. Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2230
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Posted - 2016.09.16 16:18:21 -
[40] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Desiderya wrote:Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards. Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause.
You really need to stop equating 'freedom' with 'chaos'. Freedom is self-determination, nothing more. It is exactly what the Caldari people sought when the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari State and their secession from the Gallente Federation. |
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Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
37
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Posted - 2016.09.16 16:38:39 -
[41] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Desiderya wrote:Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards. Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause. You really need to stop equating 'freedom' with 'chaos'. Freedom is self-determination, nothing more. It is exactly what the Caldari people sought when the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari State and their secession from the Gallente Federation. It is Napanii language. Chaos and freedom are the same word for her. If you say or write 'chaos', she will hear or read 'Vaajpa'. If you say or write 'freedom', she will see or hear 'vaajpa' as well. When she will say 'vaajpa' you will hear 'freedom' or 'chaos' depending on translator configuration. If you think it is confusing, ask her to talk in other language, for example, Achura, I believe they have separate words for that.
State the nature of your medical emergency
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2231
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Posted - 2016.09.16 16:53:05 -
[42] - Quote
How about she just checks a dictionary, since no-one else is using the Napanii language? |
Matar Ronin
1569
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Posted - 2016.09.16 16:56:21 -
[43] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Desiderya wrote:Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards. Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause. You really need to stop equating 'freedom' with 'chaos'. Freedom is self-determination, nothing more. It is exactly what the Caldari people sought when the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari State and their secession from the Gallente Federation. It is only natural that Pilot Kim equates freedom with chaos. The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.
Subsequently using the model of what freedom from the orderly governing Federation wrought for the Caldari people, that was then indoctrinated into her obviously pliable mind as being the fault of the Gallente, she actually could think, with years of Caldari megacorp mangled leadership history to back her up, that chaos is indeed the result of people questioning authority and seeking self determination.
Poor simple Pilot Kim's entire life experience has been in the turbulence created by the chaos caused by the CEP's duplicity against the then young Federation.
In her own twisted and pathetic fashion she adores actual chaos, as demonstrated by her being smitten by the vicious criminal racist thug Tibus Heth. One can easily note that she mimics his brutal criminal low iq racism is almost ever response to opposing points of view here on IGS.
Although she is a generator of a steady stream of hate speech Pilot Kim is deserving only of pity, the forces that twisted her into such a dim blunt instrument of hate came from the very heart of chaos.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2235
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Posted - 2016.09.16 17:25:29 -
[44] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.
Oh, good grief. No, they didn't.
The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations. |
Matar Ronin
1570
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Posted - 2016.09.16 17:37:44 -
[45] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation. Oh, good grief. No, they didn't. The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations. One day you will learn lying about history does not change it.
Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2236
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Posted - 2016.09.16 17:51:34 -
[46] - Quote
And precisely what am I supposed to be lying about? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6374
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Posted - 2016.09.16 18:20:51 -
[47] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation. Oh, good grief. No, they didn't. The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations. One day you will learn lying about history does not change it. Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate. Whatever the events leading up to the secession, the Federation responded by embargoing the planet and then bombing it. They tried to prevent Caldari self-determination by using force.
If you were a legitimate idealist and not a thug with an excuse for murder, you'd have consistent beliefs and not politically expedient ones.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1543
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Posted - 2016.09.16 18:25:53 -
[48] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation. Oh, good grief. No, they didn't. The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations. One day you will learn lying about history does not change it. Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate.
I know very well what the Gallente Federation did for us, but we must also look at the Federation's history with clear eyes. Just because they are our allies does not immediately turn them into Sefrims. They, just like us, have their own skeletons in their closets.
Like it or not, the Federation are not Sefrims. They are very much capable of disproportionate retribution. Nice people, usually, but threaten them, take away their creature comforts, and you will earn yourself a very vicious foe, as the Caldari had learnt. If it weren't for the very convenient timing of Colelie (both sides being occupied by the enemies across our respective borders), I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Federation citizens ride the jingoist militant wave and elect yet another U-Nat or advocate military action against us.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Matar Ronin
1578
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Posted - 2016.09.16 18:43:06 -
[49] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: Hello, my name is Arrendis Culome, a Director of Goonswarm Federation. My primary responsibility is doctrinal design as a member of our Fitting Team, with secondary responsibilities including the training and coordination of fleet logistics and logistics leads for all combat operations. Oh, and strategic planning is in there somewhere, too.
So, yeah. It's my job to run the numbers on the scenarios everyone thinks 'heh, we should totally go do...' but have no idea how far they're actually short of being at all capable of achieving.
If I ever have to suffer a Cluster wide humiliating defeat and need to retreat from numerous systems like a whipped cur, while cowardly abandoning previous allies that I will then subsequently categorize as dead weight, I certainly would consider the council of your proven logistical expertise in such matters.
Few others can claim to have that actual experience, even fewer would brandish it as a badge of honor.
So I wish you good luck at proudly proclaiming to all who might listen, that you are one of of the primary architects of what has now scornfully become known and will be remembered as GÇ£World War Flee!GÇ¥.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2238
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Posted - 2016.09.16 21:34:41 -
[50] - Quote
You know, you really should listen to Aria.
Everyone loses wars. There was, in fact, no way we weren't going to lose that war. By the time the real dogpiling began, the largest chunk of the Coalition had been fighting a constant defensive war on the behalf of SMA for five solid months. The main fighting strength of the Imperium had had no breaks, no time to recharge. The line was frazzled and fed up with entosis warfare. That made an already untenable situation worse.
The basic problem though, was that we occupied far too large of a footprint. Efforts had already been made to consolidate. Other efforts were underway. A fair number of the outlying alliances, however, saw no benefit in reducing the coalition's footprint. As the war progressed, many of them changed their minds, but not all. As a result, by the time the fight for the M-O Ihub happened, we were sending fleets across three regions to support allies who weren't pitching in for defend anyone's space but their own.
All of this contributed to a scenario where the social fabric of the coalition was rather weakened and stressed, but at no time did we abandon our allies. When Circle-of-Two flipped, that action was planned well ahead of time, and even their top strategic FC, Sebastien Saintfrusquin, openly contradicted the claims that we hadn't supported them. Only an absolutely freak bit of luck prevented the destruction of the LAWN and Bastion supercapital fleets. In light of the resulting strategic situation, there was really no way to win. The best we could have hoped for was a delaying actionGÇöto spend our strength holding space for as long as possible.
That, however, would not have changed the outcome in the long run. The one thing unifying our enemies and giving them focus was us. In light of that, clear-eyed assessment of the situation forced us to come to the conclusion that as long as there was something of ours to destroy, the enemy would remain implacable. Fighting would not have actually allowed us to retain our space, and would simply have bled our strength. So we didn't. Instead, we conserved our strength and preserved our combat effectiveness.
As a result, in less than a month, we've secured Delve and are degrading enemy positions in Fountain and Querious. TNT, Bastion, and LAWN are still here, and the coalition is far more unified than ever before. Meanwhile, our numbers have remained steady. Compare that to the experiences of TEST, Nulli (Oh, wait, they're gone), Darkness, HONOR, GClub, and others who've lost wars for their space. Six months to a year in the Lowsec militia warzones doing contract work, trying to rebuild their numbers and their wallets.
Obviously, we'd have preferred not to lose the war. We did, after all, want that space. At no point was that actually an achievable goal, however. All things considered, I'm rather satisfied. Tell me, since you're so critical of it: how would you have looked after the needs of over 15,000 pilots in that situation? |
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Matar Ronin
1586
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:28:50 -
[51] - Quote
Perhaps expecting a goon to recognize the truth was extremely naive on my part.
Almost as naive as expecting an IGS goon trolling specialist to admit when she is caught blatantly, provably lying.
This time I won't give you the chance mix together a bunch more statements so you can answer a tiny small part and then act like it applies to the whole.
So you remain just a common liar despite your efforts to go back and add or edit remarks.
Perhaps you really can't tell the difference between what is real and what you have just whipped up in your mind, like your assumption of what I plan for the 927 Roam Attack when you don't know me or have any real way to know. But with you obviously facts are optional when you can fill the the blanks with your own self assured baseless juvenile conclusions.
Your lies are in writing, live with that fact, or just continue to pretend you don't understand, it fits the stereotype of goons being none too bright.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2242
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:41:30 -
[52] - Quote
In other words, you've got nothing you can actually point to as me lying, and you have no idea for how you would have done things differently. All you have is invective. All you ever have is invective and posturing. |
Matar Ronin
1586
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:47:40 -
[53] - Quote
Still trying to play the victim? Just as pathetic in defeat in the forums as you are in war in space.
I can now truly see how you could be one of the primary architects of "World War Flee!"
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2242
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:50:44 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:All you ever have is invective and posturing. |
Matar Ronin
1586
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:55:43 -
[55] - Quote
At such a pathetic loss for words you have devolved to quoting yourself. It's okay no need to go away sad, just go away. You know, like your entire alliance did in "World War Flee!"
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2242
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Posted - 2016.09.17 04:01:37 -
[56] - Quote
And yet more invective and posturing. You were warned about the futility of trying to get under my skin. But please, feel free to keep demonstrating my point. |
Matar Ronin
1586
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Posted - 2016.09.17 04:14:30 -
[57] - Quote
Yes that is why you keep trying to have the last word. Because the truth doesn't penetrate your thick skull or skin correct? Perhaps if you spent less time trolling threads on IGS and more times being a big wheel part of the goonie leadership your alliance won't get rolled over so easily again like they just did in "World War Flee!"
Or maybe not, because by your own admission it was the bad leadership and poor tactical logistics, your specialty right, that allowed the goons to bite off more space than they could chew which led to your eviction and humiliating defeat in "World War Flee!"
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1546
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Posted - 2016.09.17 04:36:55 -
[58] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Yes that is why you keep trying to have the last word. Because the truth doesn't penetrate your thick skull or skin correct? Perhaps if you spent less time trolling threads on IGS and more times being a big wheel part of the goonie leadership your alliance won't get rolled over so easily again like they just did in "World War Flee!"
Or maybe not, because by your own admission it was the bad leadership and poor tactical logistics, your specialty right, that allowed the goons to bite off more space than they could chew which led to your eviction and humiliating defeat in "World War Flee!"
Matar Ronin. When's the last time you played a 4X holo-game? You try to simulate the exact situation of the Clusterfuck Coalition, or Imperium, or whatever it was they are calling themselves these days, with a limited number of active troops and a HUGE territory to cover, and tell me you are able to actually win that kind of war.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2242
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Posted - 2016.09.17 04:40:49 -
[59] - Quote
Reading comprehension remains not your strong suite. You've now conflated strategic planning and fleet logisticsGÇöwhich is the role of ships like Scimitars and GuardiansGÇöinto something you're calling 'tactical logistics' and yet still seem to think has some effect on what space our allies held.
And still, you're unable to actually single out a lie I've told. Not even about 'history', which you trotted out specifically when I pointed out that the Federation had initiated the 'chaos' surrounding Caldari independence. Instead, your response to being asked to back up your claim that I've lied is evasiveness and attempts to deflect. You can't actually support your accusation, so you keep insisting that losing an unwinnable war is somehow shamefulGÇöbut of course, when invited to say what you would have done differently... you have nothing to say.
Does it really chafe so badly to have your ridiculous plans dissected and shown to be utter fantasy? |
Felise Selunix
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
143
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Posted - 2016.09.17 05:04:03 -
[60] - Quote
I'm interested in Commander Best Practices answers to these questions as well, though I doubt he has any:
Arrendis wrote:Obviously, we'd have preferred not to lose the war. We did, after all, want that space. At no point was that actually an achievable goal, however. All things considered, I'm rather satisfied. Tell me, since you're so critical of it: how would you have looked after the needs of over 15,000 pilots in that situation? Oh, and one other thing: Arrendis wrote:And precisely what am I supposed to be lying about? You still haven't answered the question. Maybe you should do that, instead of simply trying to deflect and change the subject.
Moreover, I'm fascinated by the fact that he's gone out of his way not to answer those questions while attempting to denigrate the questioner. I suspect that the answer is obvious, but every time he answers with insults and condescension, it gets more entertaining and informative. What insults and deflections will he trot out next? I have a side bet with some friends and I think I'll win |
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