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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
206
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Posted - 2016.09.18 15:35:10 -
[31] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Do you REALLY need to know the fitting? Do you REALLY need the cargo? Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.
Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit. "Look at this looser he": had the wrong modules too much cargo shouldn't die in this ship shouldn't have been there been afk etc.
Don't be a loser then. So you just pick the fights that you WILL win instead the fights you MIGHT win -> exactly what the OP said. |
Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
2071
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Posted - 2016.09.18 15:37:40 -
[32] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Do you REALLY need to know the fitting? Do you REALLY need the cargo? Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.
Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit. "Look at this looser he": had the wrong modules too much cargo shouldn't die in this ship shouldn't have been there been afk etc.
Don't be a loser then. So you just pick the fights that you WILL win instead the fights you MIGHT win -> exactly what the OP said. Nope. See most recent loss. I pick fights that are fun.
But I have the attitude of a winner, so I'm never a loser.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Oliver Delorean
Undiscovered Dimension
54
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Posted - 2016.09.18 15:37:57 -
[33] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Oliver Delorean wrote:
Main issue is: People don't want to have that red line and this holds back many interesting engagements. Do you agree?
I think for CCP it would be smarter to find out the way where people find out the risk in the game itself, not letting people to use out of game tools (killboard) to find out the risk of the engagement.
Do you really believe people are willing to lose a fight and feed you with easy kills just because there is no public record of their dump move? On a personal note, I will always engage if I see a realistic chance of winning the fight, let's say 70%. Otherwise if I know I will lose, I will not engage, would be stupid otherwise.
Look I have limited game time and I do take fights that I know I will most likely loose, otherwise I will fly around for hours before I find that one pilot with balls who's willing to take 50/50 chance.
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Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
137
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Posted - 2016.09.18 15:53:19 -
[34] - Quote
I do agree that killboards or any statistics in any game will hurt the said game in many ways if they are made public. Some players will be so focused on them that the ambiance in the game can become really terrible (Heroes of Newerth, etc.), some will cheat to satisfy their moro... I mean e-peen feeling (Counterstrike, etc.), many won't take any risks to get a bad history and so exclude themself from a large part of a game, etc.
The real problem is that if you don't take care of your stats, someone will take care of them for you. You could be a willing player who want to do pvp even solo, but you can be refused by a corp/guild because you tried by yourself and get bad marks...
In the case of EVE, I wonder if we would have more players who would leave high-sec systems and join null ones, if they had a way to hide their score. I was one of them and when API didn't exist, sometimes I didn't post my losses as I was reluctant to get bad marks. With time it didn't matter anymore and it become impossible anyway... but if I joined the game today, I wouldn't even try to go outside high-sec systems.
So I think that if a player has the option to anonymise his lossmails, we would probably get more fights and more willing players to do pvp, even for the sake to fight a lost battle. But everything should have a cost and so if you anonymise your losses, your name won't be in the killmail too. In all cases, the name of the corporation/alliance should remain as killboards are an interresting intelligence tool.
Yes, I know that I will never see that happen. |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
206
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Posted - 2016.09.18 16:56:42 -
[35] - Quote
the thing is: What will change if your killboard that the corp can look up just shows your wins?
You don't have any -> no pvp corp for you You have some wins but more looses (which the corp doesn't see)-> you can get into a PvP corp but maybe no l33t corp You have lots of wins and only minor losses -> l33t corp for you You have lots of wins and considerable losses because you are willing to take risks -> you can still get into a l33t corp
In the end most losses don't hurt vets in any way, they've got the money for replacement but the hit on the killboard hurts much more so they don't pick tight fight to look as a superior fighter. The problem is: if they take risks they are still superior fighters but they will fall behind risk averse players on the killboard.
IMHO CCP should look up the API information anyway: email should get out -> I really don't like the Orwell like scrutiny of the private e-mails. Thankfully E-Uni doesn't. market info should get out -> it's really bad that sides like central can extract more infos from the game as the ingame price check. Either make the ingame pricecheck galaxy wide or take the api infos out. |
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
425
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Posted - 2016.09.18 17:14:58 -
[36] - Quote
Going with what someone else said killboards aren't just about keeping it green or red, its about the story and legacy of the pilot. Anytime i link the killmail where our Black Ops pilot shot someone who he thought was in corp (Wasn't) and got CONCORDED while i was the sole person in the fleet who thought to get on the kill our comms go from talking to howling laughter, given this killmail is years old now but still.
GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú
This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
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Big Lynx
7307
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Posted - 2016.09.18 18:23:13 -
[37] - Quote
Killboards are like Bikinis. They show a lot but no the most important things... |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
294
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Posted - 2016.09.18 19:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Op. Consider changing what you fly solo
Things like Vagabonds and cyclones attract a lot of heat. Which means you will be fighting blobs a lot. Good news for you though, those ships are good at fighting blobs. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
38
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Posted - 2016.09.18 20:21:57 -
[39] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Look I have limited game time and I do take fights that I know I will most likely loose, otherwise I will fly around for hours before I find that one pilot with balls who's willing to take 50/50 chance.
So all this is is just a "waah, people play differently from me" which makes it no different from any carebear who creates a whine thread about being killed and how "unfair" that is.
And again, you fly a Svipul. Clearly you're not interested in 50/50 chance fights.
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2016.09.18 21:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Killboards need to go!
Why? It seriously hurts the game! People don't look for interesting fights anymore... 95% of the pvp is based on the "green killboard" Hold the pod!! What type of sh++t is this?
Seriously! Get rid of all that: Look at my green killboard mentality and the game will be a lot better once again.
Its probably is the biggest single problem in the game. KMs have been the source of some of the worst gameplay around.
It really seems that Eve Pvp has really become "KM grind Online" at times. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2887
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Posted - 2016.09.18 21:46:49 -
[41] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Oliver Delorean wrote:
Main issue is: People don't want to have that red line and this holds back many interesting engagements. Do you agree?
I think for CCP it would be smarter to find out the way where people find out the risk in the game itself, not letting people to use out of game tools (killboard) to find out the risk of the engagement.
Do you really believe people are willing to lose a fight and feed you with easy kills just because there is no public record of their dump move? On a personal note, I will always engage if I see a realistic chance of winning the fight, let's say 70%. Otherwise if I know I will lose, I will not engage, would be stupid otherwise. Look I have limited game time and I do take fights that I know I will most likely loose, otherwise I will fly around for hours before I find that one pilot with balls who's willing to take 50/50 chance. Then make yourself an attractive target to shoot at ... like flying suspect in highsec running the Amarr event sides for example. 2 of 3 encounters engaged me today. First a Navy Vexor, I killed then a Gnosis coming for help that killed me, and finally in another site with new ship a Confessor where I had to bail with low shields.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14711
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Posted - 2016.09.18 22:03:22 -
[42] - Quote
General Guardian wrote:A killboard is like a record of good memories. One players killboard can tell an entire story. Countless times my corp has had moments where we post some of our most idiotic losses or funniest kills in chat and told the story and had a good laugh.
It's not just about epeen, but it's a history of your eve career. Where you were and what you did since you began.
I definitely wouldn't play eve without the killboard.
Same. In the last few days I've killed a couple Stratioses (Stratii, whatever) that came into my sights, using nothing more than my ratting ships. Their killmails are monuments to the law of Jenn, ie "though shalt not come between Jenn and a Shekel lest thy forfeit your life!"
I also have my kill mail (loss mail) from when I decided to autopilot my Jump Freighter to jita while drunk.....and war decced....
Without killmails to help memorialize those kinds of events, I don't think I would be playing EVE. |
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 22:12:49 -
[43] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:General Guardian wrote:A killboard is like a record of good memories. One players killboard can tell an entire story. Countless times my corp has had moments where we post some of our most idiotic losses or funniest kills in chat and told the story and had a good laugh.
It's not just about epeen, but it's a history of your eve career. Where you were and what you did since you began.
I definitely wouldn't play eve without the killboard. Same. In the last few days I've killed a couple Stratioses (Stratii, whatever) that came into my sights, using nothing more than my ratting ships. Their killmails are monuments to the law of Jenn, ie "though shalt not come between Jenn and a Shekel lest thy forfeit your life!" I also have my kill mail (loss mail) from when I decided to autopilot my Jump Freighter to jita while drunk.....and war decced.... Without killmails to help memorialize those kinds of events, I don't think I would be playing EVE.
I don't need KMs to remember the best times in this game. And if fact, many of the best battles I've been in don't even show up anymore.
KMs are more of a distraction than a benefit. |
Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
2072
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 22:45:39 -
[44] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:I don't need KMs to remember the best times in this game. Killmails are for sharing memories.
oiukhp Muvila wrote:KMs are more of a distraction than a benefit. Sounds like a personal problem.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Lafee
Lafee Industries
0
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Posted - 2016.09.18 23:51:04 -
[45] - Quote
Im fast as f**k boy!!
Kill mail is kill mail. Mail is mail. I want my mail. You will not take my mail.
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Oliver Delorean
Undiscovered Dimension
57
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Posted - 2016.09.19 00:30:18 -
[46] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote: Its probably is the biggest single problem in the game. KMs have been the source of some of the worst gameplay around.
It really seems that Eve Pvp has really become "KM grind Online" at times.
Exactly!
Vincent Pelletier wrote: And again, you fly a svipul. Clearly you're not interested in 50/50 chance fights.
I don't know what you have against svipuls, but this fight was against another svipul and I lost it! No whining and it was good fight. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
107
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Posted - 2016.09.19 01:12:03 -
[47] - Quote
Good thing none of us use them to benchmark corp/alliance progress, get intel on enemy fleets, find potential targets, or use it as a historical point of reference. I mean, who'd want useful info? |
Oliver Delorean
Undiscovered Dimension
58
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Posted - 2016.09.19 02:23:51 -
[48] - Quote
Cien Banchiere wrote:Good thing none of us use them to benchmark corp/alliance progress, get intel on enemy fleets, find potential targets, or use it as a historical point of reference. I mean, who'd want useful info?
There you go... We should play more the game and find out the risk of engagement based on the situation in the game! Not seeking through the killboards.
I'm not against benchmarking and stuff you mentioned but like it was said before: EvE online pvp has become "KM grind online" |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18083
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 04:54:02 -
[49] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote:Good thing none of us use them to benchmark corp/alliance progress, get intel on enemy fleets, find potential targets, or use it as a historical point of reference. I mean, who'd want useful info? There you go... We should play more the game and find out the risk of engagement based on the situation in the game! Not seeking through the killboards. I'm not against benchmarking and stuff you mentioned but like it was said before: EvE online pvp has become "KM grind online"
No it hasn't. The same people who you say wont engage because "oh no red KB" are the very same people who won't engage because of other made up reasons such as "oh no my implants". |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
207
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Posted - 2016.09.19 05:57:56 -
[50] - Quote
There is a big difference between Killmail, for you and only for you, and a killboard open for all. There is nothing wrong with the killmail IMHO but with open Killboards. But Even in Killmails you don't need the fitting, cargo (but maybe your loot) or the name of the victim. |
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2016.09.19 08:56:51 -
[51] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote:Good thing none of us use them to benchmark corp/alliance progress, get intel on enemy fleets, find potential targets, or use it as a historical point of reference. I mean, who'd want useful info? There you go... We should play more the game and find out the risk of engagement based on the situation in the game! Not seeking through the killboards. I'm not against benchmarking and stuff you mentioned but like it was said before: EvE online pvp has become "KM grind online"
Yeah, Pirates little helper does take away a lot of the fear of the unknown at times.
Its all in the name of a green KB though.
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
283
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Posted - 2016.09.19 09:17:13 -
[52] - Quote
IMO, the only problem is my KB doesn't show my sillier losses to NPCs. Otherwise, it's a good reminder of interesting times. |
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2016.09.19 10:55:19 -
[53] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:IMO, the only problem is my KB doesn't show my sillier losses to NPCs. Otherwise, it's a good reminder of interesting times.
It would be great for an un-exportable personal record, but in its current form it supplies so much intel, and completely influences how and if Pvp even takes place.
As well, many complain about orgs that frequently place limits when members can fly bling due to the concern for green KBs.
That effects those in and outside the org since less bling is flying around than could be.
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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
116
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Posted - 2016.09.19 11:32:30 -
[54] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Killboards need to go!
Why? It seriously hurts the game! People don't look for interesting fights anymore... 95% of the pvp is based on the "green killboard" Hold the pod!! What type of sh++t is this?
Seriously! Get rid of all that: Look at my green killboard mentality and the game will be a lot better once again.
Completely agree - they are serving the wrong purpose and i heard the other day "you fail because your KB is red"..... I'd prefer to have badges and some sort of incentives to pvp because KB's teach us nothing but K/D ratio. |
Merchant Rova
Pathway to the Next
25
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:24:27 -
[55] - Quote
someone is salty....
P-NXT is recruiting
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 13:29:12 -
[56] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Oliver Delorean wrote:Killboards need to go!
Why? It seriously hurts the game! People don't look for interesting fights anymore... 95% of the pvp is based on the "green killboard" Hold the pod!! What type of sh++t is this?
Seriously! Get rid of all that: Look at my green killboard mentality and the game will be a lot better once again. Completely agree - they are serving the wrong purpose and i heard the other day "you fail because your KB is red"..... I'd prefer to have badges and some sort of incentives to pvp because KB's teach us nothing but K/D ratio.
Why care if your killboard is Red? Sounds like you are letting the opinion of others dictate how you play. Why? |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
40
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:33:38 -
[57] - Quote
It seems like OP has a problem with holding the pod instead of killboards.
As for killboarda, they are an incredibly useful tool for learning what equipment to build in null. Without them I'd have no idea what to build beyond super obvious stuff. |
Oliver Delorean
Undiscovered Dimension
60
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:58:41 -
[58] - Quote
Hold the pod is very good example how important it is for some people to get that green line! Clearly shooting the pod isn't so interesting that everyone would like to get involved with that....
Once again: The time iv played the game, 5 years 90% PvP, it feels for me that killbord stats are holding back a quite big group of people from getting involved with risky fights.
The main idea for this forum topic is to improve the game. Not whining over my losses and wins. |
Yarosara Ruil
619
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 14:04:10 -
[59] - Quote
I'd PvP a lot more if with each loss I didn't get the name of my killer chiseled down on my character sheet for all eternity. Or have several sites on the internet keeping track of everything I lose.
Why should everyone know that a guy named hurgmurflUr killed me in Delve on the 2nd of May? Why should my character be forever associated with a guy named hurgmurflUr? Why is hurgmurflUr on my character sheet? And why should my losses by target of the scrutiny of every single EVE player that decides to look up my information?
Losing a ship is something I can move on from and learn from it. But hurgmurflUr's taste for character naming will forever haunt my nightmares. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1195
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:29:40 -
[60] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Hold the pod is very good example how important it is for some people to get that green line! Clearly shooting the pod isn't so interesting that everyone would like to get involved with that....
Once again: The time iv played the game, 5 years 90% PvP, it feels for me that killbord stats are holding back a quite big group of people from getting involved with risky fights.
The main idea for this forum topic is to improve the game. Not whining over my losses and wins.
But is this truly what is holding back people or is it just one excuzebthey have thrown up to avoid risk of change. I have never heard some one say on Comms... I'd like to PvP but I'm afraid my poor killboard stats will embarrass me. Nor have I heard anyone say... My poor killboard stats will prevent me from joining X. Generally, I Have only heard two groups care about killboard and those tend to be risk adverse people using it as an excuse (and if you eliminate killboard they will find another excuse) and wanna-bes who don't really get how killboards work who get way too excited about a green killboard without realizing all it takes is to sneak onto one capital kill to get a green killboard for months.
Rather the best way to encourage PvP is to reduce costs. Eliminate the biggest risk. Now I am not advocating a reduction in manufacturing costs. Those seem fine. Rather the OP and others who want more PvP people should spend time running and funding free PvP events. Take an open fleet through null and give out free frigs before hand. Help reimburse a spectre fleet or bomber's bar op. Join RvB and host a free frigate FFA. See if you can do a PvP course for eve uni where you offer free ships. Find a way to reduce the cost risk and you will find people will try PvP.
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