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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7974
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Posted - 2016.09.20 07:11:21 -
[31] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Because... half the point of being in the sandbox is to be able to throw sand at other players? I've seen what happens when small-time piracy is squeezed too hard. So have you. That's what gave us CODE., Archetype, Marmite, and PIRAT. I've seen what happens to it in other sandbox games. It looks a lot like this. That's irrelevant. If hte player doesn;t like the combat part he ddoesn;t have to take part in it, just like if you don't like mining, you don't have to do it, even though it's part of the game.
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Would you prefer piracy to be nerfed so hard even an organized group can't pirate? Cause that's pretty much what you're asking for. How the hell did you manage to leap to that conclusion? I simply stated that he can choose to opt out of the war if he wishes as he gains nothing really from being in a highsec corp.
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Except PvP of some flavor is at the core of this game. It's not all super-twitchy ship-to-ship PvP. Some of it is PvP in the same sense as progression raiding: one team is going to be first to clear nightmare. Sure, and at absolutely no point are you forced to have to shoot other players. You know what a sandbox is right? I'll give you a hint, it's not a type of game that forces everyone to play in the same way.
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:If people don't want to worry about getting shot while they carebear, they can go play on Sisi. If they're smart, they'll figure out really fast how little their product means when it never gets blown up, and how boring the game is when nobody ever does anything bad. Sure. Alternatively they can stay right here and ignore the people trying to enforce a playstyle on them. whether you like it or not, the choice of playstyle for other players is not dictated by you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7974
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Posted - 2016.09.20 07:19:48 -
[32] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Fly a shuttle or fast frigate out to a L4 hub in the middle of nowhere. Have someone (alt or otherwise) fly a (cheaply!) PvE-fit battleship to said L4 hub in the middle of nowhere and contract it to your guy in the wardecced corp and run a mission with it. Scout will say "Oh, look, target!" As long as you've got the nightmare back in dock by the time the killing force shows up, you will have made them waste their time coming out to kill you. Or, instead of making them waste their time doing that, set up an ambush on a choke into your system and a scout a few systems in the direction. If you throw enough firepower at the gatecamp, they're not going to get away with everything intact.
Once they figure that out, fly your frigate to a new L4 agent, set up instawarp undock bookmarks, and stay there for a little while. Then fly off in the frigate once the locator agent says you have company. If they're in local, use the instawarp. As long as you're quick to warp away from the instawarp, they're not going to get you. And all the while, you're doing other stuff on an alt. Maybe. Alternatively he could drop corp and play the game however he wants safe from the wardeccers. If he doesn't enjoy fighting with them or trying to bait them into wasting their time, suggesting he comes up with some elaborate plan is pointless.
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As for war decs being a lost mechanic, I disagree. It adds value to the sandbox in a variety of ways. For example, there would be no other way to kill a POS, POCO, or Citadel in hi sec without war decs. In fact, given citadel defense timers, you almost have to have a two week war to make it work. A war dec eliminates lost sec standings if you go try to claim a Low sec moon. Even just harass a rival Indy corp into decreasing their mining output by making them keep an orca docked out of fear of attack. That's nice, but the majority of wardecs are just a big wardec group attacking a small group of players who have no interest in fighting back and usually no ability to do the same. Wardecs are generally used to farm easy kills, which is why I advise most people playing in highsec to just drop corp and work from NPC corps as they allow you to play how you want without the disruption of people seeking easy kills. There's absolutely no point in having a highsec corp that is anything more than a shell.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
508
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Posted - 2016.09.20 07:30:28 -
[33] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sorry, I forgot that if you don't get involved in PvP combat you're playing the sandbox wrong. every single player in EVE takes part in PVP directly and indirectly so give it a rest with your bleeding heart routine lucas Note the word "combat". Yes, everyone is involved in PvP, but you by no means have to be involved in shooting each other in the face. There's no bleeding heart routine, I simply presented an option and you exploded into a fit of rage because it's an option you don't like. vOv, get over it.
what rage?
EVE is a PVP game. you think combat is restricted to pew pew when i do not.
get over what? lucas maybe you should read these posts on here at least twice before you respond.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
211
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Posted - 2016.09.20 08:09:03 -
[34] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:How long does this go on for?
I am under constant war dec on one of my mains and wondered if there is actually a cool off period?
If not this is exactly my point towards war decs being a lost mechanic. 1. Leave corp 2. Make new one 3. Repeat until the war decers stop
Of course you could also try to fight them and set up traps etc, but that is usually a waste of time because the majority of war decers never show up. They just want to extort some money from unaware newbs and noobs. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
397
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Posted - 2016.09.20 08:40:54 -
[35] - Quote
In an asymmetric conflict you win by not losing. Deny your opponent their victory conditions until they get fed up and go home - think Vietnam.
Wardecs are about "profit" which can be measured in ISK, killmails or tears. If you are being continuously wardecced it's a safe bet you are supplying your opponent one or more of those rewards.
The alliance I was part of during my first year in Eve was wardecced 20 times during that year - they actually had an out of alliance corporation setup that you could switch to during a war with 0% tax rate.
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7975
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Posted - 2016.09.20 09:21:51 -
[36] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:get over what? lucas maybe you should read these posts on here at least twice before you respond. You should probably take your own advice. I simply suggested he avoid the wardec if he doesn't want to get involved in fighting them, you then acted like that was a bad option, like his only option should be fighting back. At no point did I stated PvP is restriected to shooting each other, that's why I used the phrase "PvP combat" to make it completely clear that I was talking about just one aspect of PvP.
Now quit raging out because people give completely valid advice you don't agree with.
OP, drop corp and enjoy the freedom from wardecs. NPC corps are the way to go for most highsec players.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Ava Kurvora
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
3
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Posted - 2016.09.20 13:22:06 -
[37] - Quote
First, don't ask for help on these forums. Almost everyone here is an elitist piece of **** with a bigger hard on for themselves than your most hardcore Souls player.
Two, wardeccers are lazy pricks who just blanket wardec corps they think will be easy prey. Then they chill in the trade hubs or pipes and pick people off. It's really easy to avoid them. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
606
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Posted - 2016.09.20 13:39:58 -
[38] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:How long does this go on for?
I am under constant war dec on one of my mains and wondered if there is actually a cool off period?
If not this is exactly my point towards war decs being a lost mechanic.
You could ignore all the advice in this thread, ok some are trying to help, most aren't though and will give you all kinds of **** comments for even thinking about dropping corp etc, when there's really no need to..
Do what I used to do, always have an alt trained at least in the basics of what you like to do whether it's mining/indy/hauling/exploration etc and leave it in an NPC corp.
When a wardec hits you just chuckle to yourself about the 50m they just spent and carry on earning and enjoying what you do on said alt, that pisses them off as well :)
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Ava Kurvora
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
6
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Posted - 2016.09.20 14:03:16 -
[39] - Quote
One other thing I forgot to add. If you need to sell stuff, set up an alt. It can even be on the same account. You just need the alt to be able to fly a basic T1 industrial, so not much training is required.
Contract whatever you want to sell to your alt (keep the alt in an NPC corp,) than have the alt sell stuff at a hub. You still get access to the market, wardeccers get nothing. There is no point in trying to fight a wardecer; you'll just feed their killboards and lose isk. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1200
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Posted - 2016.09.20 15:20:05 -
[40] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As for war decs being a lost mechanic, I disagree. It adds value to the sandbox in a variety of ways. For example, there would be no other way to kill a POS, POCO, or Citadel in hi sec without war decs. In fact, given citadel defense timers, you almost have to have a two week war to make it work. A war dec eliminates lost sec standings if you go try to claim a Low sec moon. Even just harass a rival Indy corp into decreasing their mining output by making them keep an orca docked out of fear of attack. That's nice, but the majority of wardecs are just a big wardec group attacking a small group of players who have no interest in fighting back and usually no ability to do the same. Wardecs are generally used to farm easy kills, which is why I advise most people playing in highsec to just drop corp and work from NPC corps as they allow you to play how you want without the disruption of people seeking easy kills. There's absolutely no point in having a highsec corp that is anything more than a shell.
Agreed, but how do you did this? Or is it simply how the sandbox plays out because of the rules? To make a bad sports analogy, in many games teams will attempt to play out the clock if there is limited time left and the team is ahead. This isn't enjoyable to watch, it usually isn't what people would consider playing the game, and yet it is the result of the mechanic of the game. Perhaps, in order to enable the value add of war dec mechanics, there has to be some accepted meta gaming and drawbacks.
In which case, perhaps the better advocacy would be to remind people what actions to take and all options that are available instead of just uttering the stale old "never make or join a Corp".
And honestly , the main reason to make a Corp is to eliminate the 11% Income tax that is lost in an NPC corp. Plus there are the advantages of sharing Corp assets and spaces in a more convienient manner than contracts and trade mechanics. Oh and the increased capacity of Corp hangars. It's not an increase in m^3 space but rather max item count without having to subdivide using containers. Plus there is owning assets in space and the advantages those may bring. So the reality is, people must decide for themselves when the balance of those options match or outweigh the chance of being war decced. And perhaps that is what should be stressed, the point where advantages of running and being in a Corp out weigh the risk of being decced.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1200
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Posted - 2016.09.20 15:26:14 -
[41] - Quote
Ava Kurvora wrote:One other thing I forgot to add. If you need to sell stuff, set up an alt. It can even be on the same account. You just need the alt to be able to fly a basic T1 industrial, so not much training is required.
Contract whatever you want to sell to your alt (keep the alt in an NPC corp,) than have the alt sell stuff at a hub. You still get access to the market, wardeccers get nothing. There is no point in trying to fight a wardecer; you'll just feed their killboards and lose isk.
Actually, this isn't the best option. The problem with this approach is that you lose the advantages of standings on station tax and the low skilled alt might not have the best trading skills.
Instead, take advantage of the jump clone mechanics. Train infomorph psychology up. Stick a jump clone in the trade hub. Use the neutral alt to haul, trade or contract the items back to your main, jump clone to the trade hub and get the best of both worlds. Add in training info morph synch to level 4. This means you could play on your main almost all night, jump to the trade hub for your last but of play, sell stuff and go to sleep. After you wake up, deal with work/school/dinner, you can jump back and still have the evening to play wherever on your main character. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
508
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Posted - 2016.09.20 16:58:31 -
[42] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
But I never said just drop corp, you did, I asked a couple of questions and if they were met then suggested he drop corp.
well did you pm the guy and try help him?
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
508
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Posted - 2016.09.20 17:20:27 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:get over what? lucas maybe you should read these posts on here at least twice before you respond. You should probably take your own advice. I simply suggested he avoid the wardec if he doesn't want to get involved in fighting them, you then acted like that was a bad option, like his only option should be fighting back. At no point did I stated PvP is restriected to shooting each other, that's why I used the phrase "PvP combat" to make it completely clear that I was talking about just one aspect of PvP. Now quit raging out because people give completely valid advice you don't agree with. OP, drop corp and enjoy the freedom from wardecs. NPC corps are the way to go for most highsec players.
I'm going to bet you didn't even talk to the OP in private.
without knowing the full facts you offer your shortcut to thinking.
that's what's wrong with your advice but you don't get that.
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Keno Skir
850
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Posted - 2016.09.20 17:23:11 -
[44] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Your options include fighting back, finding allies, negotiation, or just vigilance and going about your business.
You are not entitled to do whatever you want in isolation from the other players in this competitive sandbox game.
I think i'm slowly beginning to like you Mr Pedro
-.-
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18177
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Posted - 2016.09.20 17:26:03 -
[45] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Ava Kurvora wrote:One other thing I forgot to add. If you need to sell stuff, set up an alt. It can even be on the same account. You just need the alt to be able to fly a basic T1 industrial, so not much training is required.
Contract whatever you want to sell to your alt (keep the alt in an NPC corp,) than have the alt sell stuff at a hub. You still get access to the market, wardeccers get nothing. There is no point in trying to fight a wardecer; you'll just feed their killboards and lose isk. Actually, this isn't the best option. The problem with this approach is that you lose the advantages of standings on station tax and the low skilled alt might not have the best trading skills. Instead, take advantage of the jump clone mechanics. Train infomorph psychology up. Stick a jump clone in the trade hub. Use the neutral alt to haul, trade or contract the items back to your main, jump clone to the trade hub and get the best of both worlds. Add in training info morph synch to level 4. This means you could play on your main almost all night, jump to the trade hub for your last but of play, sell stuff and go to sleep. After you wake up, deal with work/school/dinner, you can jump back and still have the evening to play wherever on your main character. I never bothered with any of that, whenever we had a war with any of the hub humpers I found our hub bookmarks were more than sufficient.
Correctly setup docking/undocking bookmarks combined with knowing which out gates are clear was adequate to get in and out without a scratch. Obviously this is with quickly aligning things.
Click me
=]|[=
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2424
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:36:10 -
[46] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
But I never said just drop corp, you did, I asked a couple of questions and if they were met then suggested he drop corp.
well did you pm the guy and try help him?
Well first of all the OP was making a point post , where he was complaining of the lack of engagement and point of the war dec, which is why I asked him for some information on who did the war dec, if they had lost an expensive ship or continued to bleed losses. If the OP wants to have advice then he is quite welcome to PM me.
If it is a blanket war dec entity it is quite possible to do a lot of stuff in game as long as you are careful, such as avoid the pipes, avoid the market hubs and avoid the main mission hubs, which is why people like me have multiple locations to run missions, but they bore me to death. Mining is very possible, you just pick a system out the way, then pick asteroid belts that are far away from the gates etc. and the various things that people advise people to do against gankers. I have more specific tactics and strategies.
Fighting a blanket war dec entity is just a pain, however you can pick them off, I was setup to go after a Legion which was camping Amarr station, I had watched him for a while and was going to kill him but someone beat me too it. In truth if it is a blanket war dec entity the best way to approach it is to do the reverse of what they do, they pick you for a hopeful war dec hoping you will wander into a gate camp, so the best strategy with them is to return the compliment by dropping corp and recreating a corp etc. Because blanket war deckers deserve that type of reply back, they war dec for max targets and unfocused war so dish back the same sort of shite in their direction. Blanket war deckers deserved to have people roll corps on them.
If it is a more local war dec then they can be fun to fight, and it is really up to the person concerned, it was quite early on that my corp got war decked by a solo war decker and he lost a lot more then we did, he was helped by an imbecile moving his Hulk with all his stuff in it, sigh, but after that my lads did me proud, I was on holiday. After that I only had war decs from blanket war deckers which most of my lads just cannot be bothered with.
So small real war decs can be great fun, but blanket war deckers with GTFO pipe hunters are just so meh!
So there you go.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18177
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:45:37 -
[47] - Quote
Hmmmm the op was three sentences, two of them being direct, clear and concise questions. Dino where you got all that from description, you making **** up? I think you might be.
Click me
=]|[=
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2425
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:50:57 -
[48] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Hmmmm the op was three sentences, two of them being direct, clear and concise questions. Dino where you got all that from drac , you making **** up? I think you might be.
This
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18177
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:57:08 -
[49] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Hmmmm the op was three sentences, two of them being direct, clear and concise questions. Dino where you got all that from drac , you making **** up? I think you might be. This Fair enough, you win this time .... But I'll be back for you, and your little dog too YeeeeeAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *POOF*
Click me
=]|[=
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3159
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:57:50 -
[50] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote: i do not see how the mechanic creates engagement. It just serves the purpose for easy kills.
are you saying you can kill someone w/o some form of engagement? if so i would love to know the method
BLOPS Hauler
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1040
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:58:16 -
[51] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
only option is to drop corp.
... But I never said just drop corp, you did, I asked a couple of questions and if they were met then suggested he drop corp. The "only option"
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3159
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:02:32 -
[52] - Quote
don't toss his words back at him that's not fair
BLOPS Hauler
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18123
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:16:16 -
[53] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote: i do not see how the mechanic creates engagement. It just serves the purpose for easy kills.
are you saying you can kill someone w/o some form of engagement? if so i would love to know the method
I know of a few goons back in the day that managed to self destruct their battleships while camping a station. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26870
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:23:58 -
[54] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:don't toss his words back at him that's not fair What if it's for the greater good?
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2425
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Posted - 2016.09.20 20:09:57 -
[55] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
only option is to drop corp.
... But I never said just drop corp, you did, I asked a couple of questions and if they were met then suggested he drop corp. The "only option"
This
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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radkid10
University of Caille Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2016.09.21 03:31:30 -
[56] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:How long does this go on for?
I am under constant war dec on one of my mains and wondered if there is actually a cool off period?
If not this is exactly my point towards war decs being a lost mechanic.
learn how to fight and stop crying about it
even if you do not like player-versus-player sometimes you have to kick somebody's ass at least once for them to leave you alone
look at yourself and see what you have done it might have pissed somebody off do you strip mine a whole entire solar system every day or are you trying to control the local market somebody else there might not like that or do you brag about your earnings too much or you talk out of your ass too much or you **** somebody off in your previous Corporation or there's somebody in your corporation is Infamous for pissing people off it's rare for somebody to declare war against you for no reason at all |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3163
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Posted - 2016.09.21 03:34:36 -
[57] - Quote
radkid10 wrote: if you do not like player-versus-player don't play eve
fixed that for you
remember pvp is not just pew pew
BLOPS Hauler
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
7988
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Posted - 2016.09.21 07:19:11 -
[58] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:I'm going to bet you didn't even talk to the OP in private.
without knowing the full facts you offer your shortcut to thinking.
that's what's wrong with your advice but you don't get that. I don;t need to speak to him in private, I was offering an alternative solution that he may more may not accept. It's up to him to decide if that how he wants to play and it's us to posters in a thread asking for assistance to ensure all the options are on the table for him to make a reasoned choice. That you don't like one of the options is irrelevant.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
508
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Posted - 2016.09.21 07:20:44 -
[59] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
If the OP wants to have advice then he is quite welcome to PM me.
so your answer is no, you did not contact him in private.
can you not just answer a feckin question without going into a rant.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
508
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Posted - 2016.09.21 07:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:I'm going to bet you didn't even talk to the OP in private.
without knowing the full facts you offer your shortcut to thinking.
that's what's wrong with your advice but you don't get that. I don;t need to speak to him in private, I was offering an alternative solution that he may more may not accept. It's up to him to decide if that how he wants to play and it's us to posters in a thread asking for assistance to ensure all the options are on the table for him to make a reasoned choice. That you don't like one of the options is irrelevant.
so no you didn't contact him neither. so you know feck all about his true situation. but,, you're willing to dish out that advice like you know the score.. lol when you don't.
way to go lucas
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