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Brolly
Caldari The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:12:00 -
[31]
It will be nice to see see exploration and hopefully tech data interfaces and datacores become part of missioning, would fit in nicely with the R&D corps instead of the usual combat missions.
/me looks forwards to new changes
I stink yo feer |
Kaiso Ohad
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:46:00 -
[32]
Well written blog, even though the only interesting part for me was the one sentence about new courier missions. But I guess being able to cash out all my LPs at once is a good thing too.
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Arialla
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:47:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Arialla on 19/03/2007 23:44:48 The only "choice" you are giving mission runners is whether to stay in high sec or not. Stay with level 4s or prepare for PvP. Rely on players to keep you safe? Riiiiiiight... Prepare to collect that insurance money.
You see, the mission runners do not get to "choose" whether to PvP or not. The pirates make that decision.
Quote: We are forcing you into low security and PVP!
Not at all. EVE is about freedom of choice. We simply provide the options, but reserve the right to deliver these options in context. This should also be more clear in what we addressed above, let's see what the current changes do to the landscape and take it from there.
The option you are delivering is level 5+ missions. The context you are providing it in is low sec.
IE to progress as a mission runner you have to go to low sec and PvP. It is not a choice. How can you not understand this? If you can't progress then why keep playing? Some of us spend months pimping our mission running rides. Why would we want to risk that and have to do it all again?
I predict that mission runners will wait to see which low sec system seems the best protected and then relocate en-masse to the new "safe" system. The system will promptly be renamed "New Motsu".
So sayeth the Prophet Arialla.
PS: If players were able to influence the security rating of systems a whole universe of possibilities open up.
-- Arialla
Originally by: Robocop Scammer: You probably don't think I'm a very nice guy, do ya? Murphy: Buddy, I think you're slime.
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Kvarium Ki
Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:54:00 -
[34]
Please don't force us to group in order to run missions. Grouping is fun and all but there is very little you can do in 0.0 solo. Even exploration requires you to group after you've found the plex since most are too difficult for a single person. It's nice to have a place to go and do something on your own once in a while, that's what missions are for me.
KK
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Jorlish
Boru Brothers Exploration Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:10:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jorlish on 20/03/2007 00:07:34 soo lets see , run a level 4 mission , use up more ISK in just ammo than you earn for doing the mission ... not have any bounties on kills but wait we get money form selling the items hope to god someone buys the 24x miner I's, and 15x 1 MN AB's and 8 or so 150mm AC's you loot for about 500% over market value just to make your ammo cost back ... of course then instead of having the cash to repair any damage you take, it will be nice quiet when you're floating outside a station for 10-15 mins after an unlucky run and wait for the hull reppers to fix you. thats a bonus incentive to mission right there. so now that you a pretty much taking away any reason i have to undock and try a mission( i PVP rarely)
what are you giving me to offset the cost of doing missions? whats that? "stuff" in the future will fill the void we admit we are creating?
You guys say all the great "stuff" is coming (i dont believe CCP about this .. revamped loot tables anyone?) .. but when? so now my choices for ISK are mine or stealing thru pirating,or playing something else. nice choices there.
But wait you'll see -
dont need to see the system working to know its broken ... a bad idea is bad when 1st spoken, it doesnt become bad on implememtation, it sucks from day 1. Welcome to day 1
Jorlish
Never Underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. |
Riley Craven
Caldari Copacetic Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:13:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 20/03/2007 00:13:02 Edited by: Riley Craven on 20/03/2007 00:11:00 First Id like to thank you for writing a blog addressing player concerns. Be nice if there were more blogs like them in that vien...
However, one conern you and every other dev fail to mention is what about all the other aspects of PVE?!?! Your talking about a specific subset of PVE that is not part of the whole picture.
For one thing you are talking about LVL 4 missions... and higher than that. You have failed to mentioned ANYTHING about the lower level missions... remember its not just the lvl 4 runners that are board by the same content, its everyone equally. LVL 1 through LVL 4 Oh and what about courrier missions that havent seen the light of day in ages... that need to be seriously revamped before everyone else gets their content. I think ccp needs to look at everyone and see what they have gotten recently and try to make sure everyone gets equal treatment.
Further, you have not addressed other aspects of PVE such as how your going to deal with belt rats or how you are going to make mining truely a profession (for those sorry few lot that actually do mine like it is a profession) Simple things like bigger secure containers have been needed since the game was introd... yet nothing. I dont mean small tid bits about a possible ore mining ship that is likely to share the same low sec and 0.0 restrictions either.. stuff that everyone can use equally, not the few catered vets out there.
When CCP can look at the bigger picture at the same time as everything is the day that I truely rejoice about changes to Eve.
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Brigadier Joe
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Idara Edited by: Idara on 19/03/2007 22:26:00 Fix the damn, dirty, stupid, broken loot tables first if you want players to believe you when it comes to "items over ISK" thing.
You still get retarded "drops" of 100 Defenders or 1mn Afterburner Is from BS sized mission rats now, this was supposed to be fixed in what, Exodus? Apparently you've made excuses that "there are so many tables" for the loot, suck it up and fix it if you want people to not feel that they're getting the shaft.
Only reason I loot missions is my second account, if it was just me, it's not worth the time to go back and loot an Extravaganza for the very, very, very rare chance that something half decent will drop.
TD;DR version: Fix the loot tables before removing ISK bounties.
QFT - Fix the loot tables already, Hell, decrease the overall amount of drops in favor of *better* drops.
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Arthmandar Valikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:14:00 -
[38]
Well, I'm glad you want my feedback, so here goes...
1) the whole dev blog sounds a lot like
Players: we have this concern Devs: that's a great concern. Your ridiculous little objection has been duly noted.
2) I'm very concerned about the resulting ISK cycle described by the idea that most money making in PvE will be not in liquid isk, but is instead in items 'that will be sold to other players.' In my mind, then, the majority of liquid isk inserted into the Eve economy is going to come from 0.0 belt ratting, as almost every other activity is going to result in "stuff" of some kind. Long term limit behavior of that seems to me that the prices on "stuff" will fall through the floor, and everyone in 0.0, controlling the only real liquid money supply, gets filthy rich (as empire dwellers simply trade around "stuff" until it gets destroyed somehow). That's not terrible per se, but it doesn't sound like a good way to manage the economy, and it definitely screws over the smaller and newer players, corporations, and alliances.
Perhaps it will be controlled better than that. I hope so. I don't really want to see tritanium take over as the de-facto currency in Eve.
Personal side note: I still have the same concerns I had before (i.e., this dev blog doesn't make me feel one tiny little bit better about the changes, although it does renew that nice sick feeling I had reading it the first time). More information is nice, though. |
riprjak
Dummy Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:22:00 -
[39]
I will let out a guarded w00t... Many of my concerns have been addressed, although I remain unconvinced that the reward of missions will exceed the risks, considering current loot and rig returns are rarely up to 25% of the overall mission income...
This being the case I cant see missioning generating sufficient income without bounties because I did not get any impression that loot tables were getting improved. This is the one point will continue to concern me related to the missioning system change, since I barely tread water now after expenses... any later move to unsecured space and the resultant need to fund a large number of ship replacements will only compound this issue.
Of course, if they DO improve the loot tables and it becomes possible to maintain enough income to regularly replace a fully fitted PVE ship on a regular basis; its all good. Im damn certain I could retire on the proceeds of Rachen Mysura's shield recharger should he ever drop the bloody thing :)
Mostly happy about the coming change... err! jak
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Miniturret
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:54:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Miniturret on 20/03/2007 00:52:55 ok to give my view of how things will turn out... (i stopped running missions a LONG time ago, why would I run a mission which takes half an hour plus, when I have the option to goto 0.0 kill ONE battleship rat in about 1-3 minutes and make the same if not substanial more than the mission.)
option a) you listen to the player base and fix the loot tables, leave the isk bounties, and just do a content overhaul nothing else.
option b) you go ahead with your current plan, mission runners will make less money overall since loot tables are FUBAR, meaning less people buying the stuff i bring up from 0.0 ratting, which in turn kills my economy. IF players do decide to continue mission running it's either going to be couier missions (boring in my mind and still just an ISK printer with little danger plus without doing combat ships won't accidental blow up which would require new parts to be bought) or you'll have a massive army of amarr combat mission runners (since we all know amarr's are laser junkies which means no ammo costs which means more money for the runner)
Now if you would actually listen to the playerbase and fix what needs to be fixed before you go and add more content, you would retain quite a few more people and also more would be more likely to join.
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Derelyk
Win Tech
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Elrinarie my biggest question is about standings with concord?
Without an isk bounty on the rats, how are we to regain good standings with concord?
Looking for an answer to this question also. ...
(how many times are you required to log into this site before you're actually logged in?) |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 01:25:00 -
[42]
Not a single mention about Drones. No Drone love. Nothing.
/Patch86 cries......... --------
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.20 01:27:00 -
[43]
Excellent Dev Blog.
Couple of questiosn though:
Policing: While it is all well and good to suggest that players police themselves (and as 0.0 shows it can be quite effective making it safer than having COONCORD around) how do you really see players managing this in 0.1 - 0.4 systems? There simply are no tools for effective policing. Taking a sec hit means the player "police" will nerf their sec status in no time unless you think you can effectively police an area but not be able to shoot first.
Likewise with missioners/ratters. Pirate(s) comes waltzing into my area while I am being jumped by 12 rats who may well have me webbed and scrambled AND I cannot even shoot at the pirate first (maybe I have the warp in point at my optimal when they come in) without a sec hit. There really is no choice but to run (if possible).
We all know PvP > PvE setups.
So, in order to access low sec missions I need to get a gang of 5-10 mates together, nerf our sec status to hell chasing pirates for an hour or two, get in my mission ship and go do the mission while everyone else guards me?
Besides, chasing pirates off is about as useful as chasing gnats off around Lake Mēvatn. Sure you can disperse them a bit but they are back thicker and worse than ever in no time.
ISK vs. Loot: Not so sure changing up how people are "paid" for missioning is a good change. I can appreciate that the amount of money a player can net via a combat mission is absurd. I do combat missions, I benefit from the ISK coming in and I still think it is over the top. Bounties + reward + LP + loot (refine and sell) + salvage is too much.
But if you take away ISK and replace it with loot you are just tanking the market worse. There are a lot of people out there who build T1 stuff and now it will be flooded with junk from missioners? You will make it very difficult for T1 builders to find it worth building anything.
I honestly think the flip side to your proposal would make more sense. Nerf rat droppings sharply (leave salvage as is). Make missioning a mostly ISK only deal. There can be some loot drops but not much and far less than today. This would leave the mod and mineral markets in the players' hands where it should be. Miners provide the bulk of minerals and builders provide the bulk of mods and missioners buy it all.
Yes this would mean inflating the market but it will find its balance just fine...one of the neat things about EVE and its cool market driven economy.
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Cmdr Delrox
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.20 01:37:00 -
[44]
I like most of the changes being discussed, esp the part about lvl 5 and up agents being moved to <.5 systems. I think a little change in the way low sec pirates are fought need to be worked on. I would like to see new alliances moving into low sec to keep pirates in hand and perhaps set up more trade infrastructure.
Alt Posting
Death to Dark Shikari |
Bruno Bonner
Gallente Lutin Group
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Posted - 2007.03.20 01:39:00 -
[45]
Thank you for communicating this points, it certainly clears up a few things.
If a player-driven economy based on the high end content of 4 or higher level missions is the general aim, then i implore you to throughly review and re-assess the loot tables.
If you want to reduce the number of NPCs that spawn, thats fine, but make the NPC pirate dogtags/dna/overseers items sellable to concord, and the faction dogtags be used as LP boosters with agents at the moment you want to cash in your LP pool.
Items need to be destroyed and created for a purpose, i agree with you that "printing" ISK directly is bad, but you need to give moderate alternatives to the current existing mechanics.
regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ |
Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.03.20 01:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Roy Gordon on 20/03/2007 01:46:14 Whilst it is very pleasing to see the dev's replying to our concerns, much appreciated by the way, I still have concerns about removing bounty payments. When you have a situation where a battleship contained one solitary item, a ROCKET LAUNCHER!!! If there were no bounty payment to compensate, I would have been biting my hand in frustration! This is exactly what happened to me tonight. I managed with great difficulty to solo lvl 4 'Silence the Informant', losing a T2 fitted Raven in the process. None of the battleships on the mission dropped anything worth more than a few thousand isk. I would have been spitting feathers had I not been getting 250k isk in bounties for killing each of them. I am a casual player, forced by circumstances to only play EvE for between 2 and 3 hours a night maximum. I rely on missions to fund my ship/module/ammo buying. My advice is to keep the reward/bonus payments, and fix the loot drops before even considering getting rid of the bounty system. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.20 02:09:00 -
[47]
Forgot...
As others have said get rid of static complexes already. Make them part of Exploration and move them around.
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Mister Locke
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.20 02:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Humpalot
ISK vs. Loot: Not so sure changing up how people are "paid" for missioning is a good change. I can appreciate that the amount of money a player can net via a combat mission is absurd. I do combat missions, I benefit from the ISK coming in and I still think it is over the top. Bounties + reward + LP + loot (refine and sell) + salvage is too much.
But if you take away ISK and replace it with loot you are just tanking the market worse. There are a lot of people out there who build T1 stuff and now it will be flooded with junk from missioners? You will make it very difficult for T1 builders to find it worth building anything.
I honestly think the flip side to your proposal would make more sense. Nerf rat droppings sharply (leave salvage as is). Make missioning a mostly ISK only deal. There can be some loot drops but not much and far less than today. This would leave the mod and mineral markets in the players' hands where it should be. Miners provide the bulk of minerals and builders provide the bulk of mods and missioners buy it all.
Yes this would mean inflating the market but it will find its balance just fine...one of the neat things about EVE and its cool market driven economy.
I definitely see this as an issue as Humpy (you mind if i call you Humpy?) says. I am looking at getting into T1 production as a change of pace. its a tough market already and im studying hard to find my niche in terms of location and which items to produce.
If you lower ISK income and raise item drops, not only do people have less money to spend on player manufactured items, but they have less reason to buy them in the first place. The nerf should be the other way around. More ISK reward (or stay the same) and less loot drops (at least of T1 items)
Yes i know thats somewhat biased as I stated i want to try production, but the current suggested change will make mission runners (which i also am) more self reliant. They wont need to buy stuff much. Surely the idea is to have everyone interacting together, whether via pvp, the market, whatever. --- --Any sufficiently advanced bureaucracy is indistinguishable from molasses.-- |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.03.20 02:32:00 -
[49]
Thanks for the blog. :)
Originally by: Humpalot Excellent Dev Blog.
Couple of questiosn though:
Policing: While it is all well and good to suggest that players police themselves (and as 0.0 shows it can be quite effective making it safer than having COONCORD around) how do you really see players managing this in 0.1 - 0.4 systems? There simply are no tools for effective policing. Taking a sec hit means the player "police" will nerf their sec status in no time unless you think you can effectively police an area but not be able to shoot first.
Likewise with missioners/ratters. Pirate(s) comes waltzing into my area while I am being jumped by 12 rats who may well have me webbed and scrambled AND I cannot even shoot at the pirate first (maybe I have the warp in point at my optimal when they come in) without a sec hit. There really is no choice but to run (if possible).
We all know PvP > PvE setups.
So, in order to access low sec missions I need to get a gang of 5-10 mates together, nerf our sec status to hell chasing pirates for an hour or two, get in my mission ship and go do the mission while everyone else guards me?
Besides, chasing pirates off is about as useful as chasing gnats off around Lake Mēvatn. Sure you can disperse them a bit but they are back thicker and worse than ever in no time.
Basically, qft. I would love to hear more about the plans you mentioned in the other thread about this very subject, e.g. Viceroys, etc. There are players willing to take charge of policing LowSec themselves, but they're concerned because some basic tools are either broken or don't exist yet.
I really, really...a few more reallys...think it would be a good idea to make the LowSec/ Level 5+ mission overhaul simultaneous with at least some changes to the LowSec "law enforcement" system. Right now people are panicing and judging your mission plans in (hopefully) the wrong context.
PS
Quote: Not a single mention about Drones. No Drone love. Nothing.
/Patch86 cries......... Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad
Please don't make Patch cry. He desperately wants word on the upcoming drone nerf.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.20 02:46:00 -
[50]
# Encourages colonization of low security, the higher population providing pirates with more, but tougher (capital-ship-driving-group-flying) pilots. # Said capital-ship-driving-group-flying pilots probably remember said pirates from when pirate took pilot out the last time and capital-ship-driving-group-flying pilot will stop if he sees said pirate criminal flagged at a gate. # Slowly involves the "PvE" player in more "PvP" EVE activity.
this is copied from the last blog. it does not point out that the pirates will have capital ships long before the pve player. it also says nothing about the ice products needed by all the capital ships flying around.please not that ccp did put a true statement into this latest blog
We are forcing you into low security and PVP!
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks
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Posted - 2007.03.20 03:40:00 -
[51]
Oveur, could you please elaborate what exactly is to become of courier missions, and will there be big enough loads to warrant using a freighter under the new system?
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Forum Alt
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.20 03:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Murphy "Printing large sums of money is bad. That is inserting new ISK into the economy."
Remove static 0.0 complexes and make them exploration sites. You'll remove a huge isk printer from the game doing that.
There's right around 25 10/10 complexes, those alone add at a minimum 25 billion per day. That's just in overseer's effects. That doesn't include the billions of loot they drop or any of the other complexes.
Plus you'd think after all this time the factions would figure out to hide their shipyards.
Isk gained from selling items obtained from complexes does not generate a single additional isk into the economy unless they are sold to NPC's (which they aren't). It only causes isk to change hands. Definitely NOT the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.20 03:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Oveur, could you please elaborate what exactly is to become of courier missions, and will there be big enough loads to warrant using a freighter under the new system?
Using a Freighter for courier missions!
Man, bad enough in a hauler. If the rewards were hugely substantial maybe...
But wait, it gets worse!
- Imagine the collateral you'd need for a Freighter run! Would be astronomical. - L5 missions will be low sec only. A freighter is a death trap in low sec. You'd absolutely need a several ship guard to run such missions and even then. Not only are you risking a 900 million ship you are liable to lose several hundred million in collateral if it goes *boom*.
As someone who hauls a lot (note my name) I can appreciate having some nifty courier missions but as things stand no WAY would I touch a low sec courier mission that required a freighter without staggeringly good rewards available.
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Lygos
Finis Actum
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Posted - 2007.03.20 04:43:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Lygos on 20/03/2007 04:40:09 This is all very confusing for a luddite who still approaches the game in the exact same manner as when Gemini was around. If I ever get around to making isk, I have always expected it to be derived through intelligent utilization of the IGB or some other snip.
You know what they say, those who refuse to adapt are also usually the most violently bellicose.
In x number of years I've been around to buzz annoyingly through the cluster, I have never flown a Raven, never fired a missile bigger than a heavy for that matter(it was only once), never seen a level three deadspace mission, never bothered to learn the new scanning system or the exploration finding thingies, never listened to all the music since I turned the sound off to avoid the warp sound, never mined anything but some kernite rocks when I was a noob, never hauled ice, never purchased anything in the rather expanded materials list that wasn't a mineral, and pretty much anything else that's come out since Exodus. It's a safe gamble I haven't seen a need to bother with this snip. Perhaps in despite of all this, I have found the core of EVE to be an entirely adequate launching point for a satisfying game experience. All I care about is the cavalier attitude towards player innovation, the community-driven atmosphere, and the high-threat environment. That it somehow involves spaceships is a bonus. The rest is snip and fluff.
Maybe we curmudgeons aren't the snipping nicest or most desirable customers to have, but I snipping imagine we have done our fair snipping share of snipping advertizing for this project. Try not to snip it up too bad.
--- T2 Risk | Corp Divisions |
Forum Alt
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.20 04:56:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Forum Alt on 20/03/2007 04:59:54
Originally by: Oveur You feel we are abandoning missions and PVE in general.
Personally I never thought this in so many words but hopefully the new guys you say are working in this area will help liven it up a bit. Originally by: Oveur You want the current Level 4 missions to stay as they are.
Couldn't care less. If I had to form an opinion I have to say I'd rather have some of the hardest missions moved to level 5's as you originally planned. I don't like having to decline missions I can't do even in a fully T2 fitted dual rep 80%+ resistance battleship. If these few level 4 missions went away I wouldn't feel bad about it. They aren't even the best rewarders so no tears from me on that count. Originally by: Oveur We aren't adding enough content.
I don't know where you got this. I think you guys are adding TO MUCH content and not focusing on fixing long standing bugs. Originally by: Oveur More content for the current agent level!
Good news if it's bug free. Otherwise it's just more buggy fluff... Originally by: Oveur You're taking away our ISK! We don't make that much ISK!
As long as you leave the current level 4's as they are, only remove the 5 or so hardest ones, and leave bounties on the NPC's in them, then the people that are saying this are tooting straight out of their posteriors. Pay them no heed. Originally by: Oveur We are forcing you into low security and PVP!
Again, as long as you leave level 4's where they currently are then these people aren't being forced anywhere. If you start arsing about with level 4 agent locations though then you are doing exactly what you said you weren't. However, I must say that your general attitude toward people that do not want to shoot at each other is embarrassingly appalling overall. I don't even encourage people to play this game anymore due to this fact. Originally by: Oveur Missions are ISK-printing machines!
Agreed. However, a better solution would be to add more sinks rather than to remove faucets. Low sec player policing involving system renting, hiring NPC protection, whatever, would be a good sink that actually helps to solve two problems at once. Originally by: Oveur But what's new coming for PVE?
I look forward to the changes.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.20 05:18:00 -
[56]
That was a great blog. I unanimously agree with it.
So, in an attempt to provide further feedback, let me underline something mentioned before that I would really see as a big additional improvement: The removal of static complexes and their integration into the exploration system, thus affecting the exploration system's general risk vs. reward factor.
Static complexes are really a bee's nest. When I was but a noob corper in a barely fitted destroyer, I wanted to try out a banal 2/10 one in Empire, and I had to resort to tactics such as logging off at the warp-in gate and logging on right after maintenance to even get a shot at it. The complex keymasters were farmed constantly. Not by people like me - but rather by year-old, well established characters in expensive tech2 ships. Fast forward to the big 0.0 based complexes - they're farmed even more zealously. This creates two problems: 1.) The complexes, no matter their difficulty rating, are never available to the general public. A random casual player's chance to get into anything bigger than a 3/10 are closely approaching zero, even if their ship was well up to the challenge. This is because at that point, it starts being lowsec, and even if the random casual palyer gets in first, he'll be ganked in the first stage by the regularly scheduled farming team. Yes, I've been there too. 2.) Few things create quite as much strife between big alliances as the placement of big complexes - specifically 9/10 and 10/10. I'm sure you're familiar with them "the Devs are placing a new 10/10 in <insert alliance here> space, they're giving them unfair advantages!" threads. And to be honest, there's a grain of truth in there: if you have access to a 10/10 complex, your ships will be the better equipped and more expensive ones in the end. You can afford to risk that Gist X-Type booster in PvP. The enemy can't.
So what do you gain by integrating static complexes in exploration? First, you open it all up to the general public. A single static complex can be locked down easily, but EVE has what, five thousand systems? That will accomodate a much much much larger playerbase and keep them busy while still allowing the random casual to sit in a quiet corner and launch a probe of his own. Second, you remove all the whining about Dev bias that results from complex placement. And third, you make exploration much more worthwhile.
Now don't get me wrong - I hear of a corporation that focuses entirely in exploration and makes enormous amounts of ISK every day from it. But that is because they know what they have to look for. They pick only those sites that they know will contain data interfaces and rare blueprints. The largest part of exploration sites are simply discarded. Like those certain sites from forum horror stories that require a group of 3-4 battleships to survive endless amounts of bounty-less NPC hostiles and contain a passive targeter or cargo scanner in the treasure container in the end. That's just about the most frustrating thing an exploration team can encounter, and hence people quickly learned to avoid them. Out of your hundreds of exploration sites, only a select few are actually sought after.
But what if that really hard exploration site was in fact a once-static 10/10 complex type? Where ultra-rare faction gear was guaranteed to drop on every run? You can bet people would go through the trouble of assembling a battleship gang for it then.
And while I have a few characters left to type, here's an unrelated suggestion to directly and easily improve the mission runner experience: Let the agent remember what mission you did for him last. You can save it local if you want, in the cache folder. And then, when randomizing a new mission, exclude that one mission from the pot for just this round. I can still remember when I got "Avenge a Fallen Comrade" no less than five times in a row... I mean seriously. What's the average life expectancy of employees in that corporation?!
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Mad Ilya
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Posted - 2007.03.20 07:21:00 -
[57]
Nice one there! My few thoughts on that:
1) L4 as they are: Great, I didn't comment on the earlier blog, but I just pretty recently made the jump from lvl3 to lvl4 and it was rather more fun than frustrating (ofcourse I had hard time on the first few). I think it actually makes you train more to be good at lvl4 too. More variety, YES thanks!
2) About the ISK: You sure have the means to monitor how it turns out as it probably isn't so predictable. Putting the value in modules may be bad for market values and deflate the prices, so...
3) Factional war missions: It shouldn't be punished too hard if you get missions against another faction as you'll soon end up an outlaw on other empire space. It's war and you're doing what the agent tells you to. (Please review the problems on that before going live on TQ.)
4) "More PvP in missions": I'd like to see missions that would encourage using friends and restrict your ships to like cruisers or BCs. That could be some "group-lvl3-agent".
I'm looking forward to the changes. As I see the blog, it's going to the right direction and by keeping close touch on player base you can always tweak it as necessary. The bounty system revamp would also be good for fighting those evil pirates in lowsec.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.20 07:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Elrinarie my biggest question is about standings with concord?
Without an isk bounty on the rats, how are we to regain good standings with concord?
1) the two things aren't related, unless you want to get paid for the privilege of regaining your sec status;
2) I would like very much if ratting in 0.0 woldn't increase security standing. If CONCORD is no concerned if you kill some player in 0.0 I don't see why it should be concerned if you kill some NPC in 0.0.
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Forum Alt
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.20 07:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Venkul Mul I would like very much if ratting in 0.0 woldn't increase security standing. If CONCORD is no concerned if you kill some player in 0.0 I don't see why it should be concerned if you kill some NPC in 0.0.
That is a very good point and one of the things I've never understood about ratting in 0.0. Killing non-mission NPC rats in high and low sec is understandable as you are basically "helping" CONCORD police the areas. In 0.0 this is not the case since there is no NPC security presence at all. In fact you could take it a step further and ask why there are CONCORD related rewards on NPC rats outside of Empire at all...
/me shrugs.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.20 07:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Humpalot
ISK vs. Loot: Not so sure changing up how people are "paid" for missioning is a good change. I can appreciate that the amount of money a player can net via a combat mission is absurd. I do combat missions, I benefit from the ISK coming in and I still think it is over the top. Bounties + reward + LP + loot (refine and sell) + salvage is too much.
But if you take away ISK and replace it with loot you are just tanking the market worse. There are a lot of people out there who build T1 stuff and now it will be flooded with junk from missioners? You will make it very difficult for T1 builders to find it worth building anything.
I honestly think the flip side to your proposal would make more sense. Nerf rat droppings sharply (leave salvage as is). Make missioning a mostly ISK only deal. There can be some loot drops but not much and far less than today. This would leave the mod and mineral markets in the players' hands where it should be. Miners provide the bulk of minerals and builders provide the bulk of mods and missioners buy it all.
Yes this would mean inflating the market but it will find its balance just fine...one of the neat things about EVE and its cool market driven economy.
We are playing the same game? " Bounties + reward + LP + loot (refine and sell) + salvage is too much." In what universe or using wath kind of ship set up? Mining in hig sec I can get from 7 to 10 millions hour, with little risk. As mission running has higher risk (not much, but higher) and higher costs I want a better return. That is rarely seen in missions today (and most of the LP rewards are abmyssal, with a return lower than 1000 isk for LP, so the 3-5000 LP for a mission are 3-5 millions).
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