Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 22:09:33 -
[31] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:They lose 100,000 ships a day, easily
Because you like specifics, I doublechecked the heat map, and I'm off a bit. The actual number of Blood Raider ships lost in Delve over the last 24h is currently 598,294.
So you can reasonably expect that in the month of September, they're going to lose over 15,000,000 ships.
They will not notice.
3,000 ships works out to 90,000 in a month.
The Empire will not notice. It is already factored into the cost of slaves. Consider yourself... price supports. |
Matar Ronin
1697
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 23:02:23 -
[32] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:Because you have only been a licensed capsuleer pilot for three years I can understand if you only have a short term perspective on a struggle for justice and freedom against an oppressive evil that has afflicted humanity for centuries.
You know, having been a license capsuleer for a whopping five years yourself, you're really not in a position to act like the One True Knower of Age and Experience. I've got as much time on you as you have on Utari, and I fly with folks who've got us both beat combined. The bottom line is: you don't have to be at this an unfathomable amount of time to be able to do basic math. What you are doing is not ignoble, it is not shameful, it is not something to be scorned. That said, it is less than a drop in the bucket of what is out there, and how many ships the Empires and the Pirate groups have to throw at getting what they want. Your band's been killing a hundred ships a day, each, right? There's what? 30 of you? So 3000 ships a day? 1/10th of the number of Blood Raiders destroyed in one system? The Blood Raiders are not as numerous as the Amarr. They lose 100,000 ships a day, easily, and these losses do not seem to bother them. You look ahead to 50 years and imagine the collapse of the slaving raids... in 50 years, the children of the slavers you kill now will have grown, had children of their own, and those children will be slaving and raising another generation of slavers. You will not kill them all. Do not imagine that you will. Do not imagine that you will make it prohibitively expensive, either. Instead, just know that those slavers will not take their prizes, and that there are people who are free because of what you have done. You are no less right to be proud of your pilots than Alizabeth has been to be proud of hers. But have no illusions about what you do, or how effective it will be. Grandiose claims ring hollow to the ears of those who have seen the hordes you seem to think will ever end, and illusions of great success only breed ego, and lead you astray. Matar Ronin wrote:Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:Perhaps you kill for isk, or just for fun, I only do it because I have to, to have any chance to end the horror of the centuries of blight caused by the slavery cultists. I don't suppose you have receipts from the charities to which you send your bounty money? #3 Charitable giving might be a standard you measure by but by no means does that make it a valid indicator of anything to do with this thread. Well, you kind of implied that by not killing for ISK, you weren't accepting ISK for your kills, either. Well it was not my intention. Grandiose claims, really??? Coming from a goon that is indeed funny, because your stock and trade is inflated claims and unrealistic versions of events. Cluster wide scam equals goon. Nothing personal it is just what your brand is.
Sometimes when people talk about big concepts and big ideas and include themselves other people assume it is to enlarge the role of the speaker. In my case I am quite happy to be a small operator who is at least trying. If everyone did a little to help the results would be massive. That is what I am a proponent of, trying to help, trying to work/fight for solutions and not ever accepting a status quo where humans can be enslaved by the cultists or the cyborg (not that a capsuleer should put too fine a point on that) sansha and people say ho hum just another day in New Eden.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2339
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 23:38:06 -
[33] - Quote
Those are some kind of horrifying numbers. Even with so many systems and spacebourne civilizations active in them for hundreds to thousands of years--
I knew we killed a lot of people. I knew that. But ...
Gods and spirits.... |
Matar Ronin
1704
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 23:48:46 -
[34] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Those are some kind of horrifying numbers. Even with so many systems and spacebourne civilizations active in them for hundreds to thousands of years--
I knew we killed a lot of people. I knew that. But ...
Gods and spirits.... Imagine/remember the trillions over the centuries that lived, suffered, and died under the yoke of slavery cultists.
Centuries and generations.
That is the Matari reality, and perhaps you can now appreciate the quiet horror that resides in all of us, and maybe just respect a little bit, our unbreakable will to never give up the fight.
Not ever!
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2262
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 23:51:50 -
[35] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:If everyone did a little to help the results would be massive.
The problem is, the result are already massive. Fifteen million ships full of baseliner crews will be killed in Delve this month. Frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships. If it averages out to 68 people per ship, that's a billion dead. And that's a conservative estimate. The actual number, for the record, assuming today is an average day, and there's no increase on the weekends, is 17,948,820 ships, which needs only an average crew of 55 per ship to hit a billion dead.
And yes, Aria, they are horrifying numbers.
|
Matar Ronin
1724
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:15:28 -
[36] - Quote
Speaking of the Butcher's Bill, a freedom loving Civrie wrote this a while back:
Life is hard ... and then you die!
Born Caldari or Minmatar, or Gallente, or of the cursed Amarr, We all hurl our frail bodies into the frigid black void, Encased in pods of metal filled with fluids, Sheathed inside vessels that traverse the emptiness between stars We fight and kill to pay our bill To the butcher never satiated I hoist my glass and give a salute To all those brave enough to fly and shoot!
Life is hard ... and then you die! For those who venture beyond the sky Into the void were laws mean little We make our living among the dying In the depths of space We elude the finality of death's embrace Capsuleer a word you'd do well to learn to fear! I might not be the one who kills you but I'll certainly try Life is hard ... and then you die. SynthesisX, Pilot Poet Capsuleer
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1358
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:19:46 -
[37] - Quote
There's a saying involving fleas and laying with slaver hounds for those "horrifying deaths." Maybe they should have chosen their path more carefully. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2262
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:32:43 -
[38] - Quote
The horrifying part for me, at least, is that there's that many of these madmen that we could kill 12,000,000,000 of them in the next year and they wouldn't notice. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1359
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:35:49 -
[39] - Quote
Ya, that fact I have to agree with you. It's rather unsettling... |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2340
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:37:56 -
[40] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:There's a saying involving fleas and laying with slaver hounds for those "horrifying deaths." Maybe they should have chosen their path more carefully.
Ms. Vess?
The numbers here have nothing at all to do with the faction being fought for (unless you object to people hunting pirate fleets). Ships belonging to any empire are a tiny percentage of what we're talking about. It's mostly the outer powers-- the Covenant, the Nation (Arrendis's numbers and Utari's, respectively). The Empire could free every slave it holds and make peace with the Republic, and that number probably wouldn't decrease much, if at all.
This could be described in terms of progress made, and certainly CONCORD's bounties seem to suggest that they do think of it that way, but-- the scale.... |
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1359
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 00:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Deitra Vess wrote:There's a saying involving fleas and laying with slaver hounds for those "horrifying deaths." Maybe they should have chosen their path more carefully. Ms. Vess? The numbers here have nothing at all to do with the faction being fought for (unless you object to people hunting pirate fleets). Ships belonging to any empire are a tiny percentage of what we're talking about. It's mostly the outer powers-- the Covenant, the Nation (Arrendis's numbers and Utari's, respectively). The Empire could free every slave it holds and make peace with the Republic, and that number probably wouldn't decrease much, if at all. This could be described in terms of progress made, and certainly CONCORD's bounties seem to suggest that they do think of it that way, but-- the scale.... Please correct me if I'm wrong but the numbers Arrendis was quoting were mainly blood raiders (numbers being from activity in the Delve region, primarily consisting of Blooder) right? Them dieing won't cause me to shed a tear, I'd hope the same opinion is shared by anyone in this thread. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6393
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 01:10:26 -
[42] - Quote
It sounds more like taking the trash out than something I'd do to make a living. Even pummeling these Purity Throne idiots is more an exercise in missile magazine reloading than anything approaching skill.
I can honestly say that the meanest Atron kill is something of which I'm prouder than any baseliner battleship. Or tens of baseliner battleships.
Is this the work for which we were crafted? Is this the extent to which we test ourselves? Maker, I hope not.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2263
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 01:16:13 -
[43] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Them dieing won't cause me to shed a tear, I'd hope the same opinion is shared by anyone in this thread.
I do kind of feel bad whenever I blow up an Ashimmu. They're a lovely little ship.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Is this the work for which we were crafted? Is this the extent to which we test ourselves? Maker, I hope not.
It's a way to pay the bills...
And, you know, pay for a new Hel after a month or so. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2340
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 01:35:39 -
[44] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:It sounds more like taking the trash out than something I'd do to make a living. Even pummeling these Purity Throne idiots is more an exercise in missile magazine reloading than anything approaching skill.
I can honestly say that the meanest Atron kill is something of which I'm prouder than any baseliner battleship. Or tens of baseliner battleships.
Is this the work for which we were crafted? Is this the extent to which we test ourselves? Maker, I hope not.
The traditional first use of a new military technology is to massacre people who don't have it, but....
Yeah.
I had started taking work hunting baseliner craft, but, I might have to re-rethink that. It's not about whether they deserve it, or even whether, as in the case of Sansha's Nation, we might be doing them a favor.
I don't want to spend my career as a mass-executioner. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
566
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 02:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Capsuleer on Capsuleer running totals
When did this topic become acceptable anyway. Did those who found it distasteful all quit flying or have they changed?
"Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed."
- The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria 12:18
|
Matar Ronin
1727
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 02:22:54 -
[46] - Quote
Five Trillion and counting, enough people to fill an entire empire blown to bits in the ships of capsuleers.
Amazing.
Is there a similar counter for the baseline crew deaths at the hands of capsuleers?
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2267
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 03:36:35 -
[47] - Quote
That's five billion, not trillion. And it looks like it's just the count of baseliner crews of capsuleer vessels since this past May. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
1948
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 06:07:20 -
[48] - Quote
There's a reason why I always take grim satisfaction in the destruction of those capsuleers who spend all their time destroying baseliner ships: they're the real monsters and butchers.
At least I'm ethical and try to keep my destruction to capsuleer vessels with reduced crew counts!
@veikusenpai |
Jason Galente
Hole Riders Spaceship Samurai
739
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 09:31:02 -
[49] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: I had started taking work hunting baseliner craft, but, I might have to re-rethink that. It's not about whether they deserve it, or even whether, as in the case of Sansha's Nation, we might be doing them a favor.
I don't want to spend my career as a mass-executioner.
This is why in a very short time I've grown to prefer sleeper sites to bounty hunting pirate baseliners.
At least in those cases all I'm doing is destroying vast amounts of potentially useful advanced technology.
And where's the harm in that?
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2275
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 13:36:27 -
[50] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:There's a reason why I always take grim satisfaction in the destruction of those capsuleers who spend all their time destroying baseliner ships: they're the real monsters and butchers.
Yes, those people who spend their time killing murderers, pirates, and slavers are such fiends!
Jason Galente wrote:This is why in a very short time I've grown to prefer sleeper sites to bounty hunting pirate baseliners.
At least in those cases all I'm doing is destroying vast amounts of potentially useful advanced technology.
And where's the harm in that?
And, you know, inciting the Drifters to wake up and start killing people. |
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2341
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 14:19:14 -
[51] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:When did this topic become acceptable anyway. Did those who found it distasteful all quit flying or have they changed?
Is this why I didn't know about the sheer scale of all this?
All my pre-existing "knowledge," the groundwork for an intricate case claiming to prove our inhumanity-- my predecessor would have loved such a statistic. I knew some of our methods had changed, but....
Is this why I didn't know? Because it's distasteful to look at what we're doing?
Arrendis wrote:Yes, those people who spend their time killing murderers, pirates, and slavers are such fiends!
This is what I told myself when I started hunting conventional craft: it has to be done. It has to be done. Sansha's Nation can't persist. Sani Sabik can't be allowed a foothold. The others can't be allowed to do as they please, either. They have to be destroyed. It has to be done.
... I feel sick.
Quote:Jason Galente wrote:This is why in a very short time I've grown to prefer sleeper sites to bounty hunting pirate baseliners.
At least in those cases all I'm doing is destroying vast amounts of potentially useful advanced technology.
And where's the harm in that? And, you know, inciting the Drifters to wake up and start killing people.
Also, most indications to date are that the Sleepers are an upload civilization whose infrastructure we're attacking and degrading.
Considering that an upload civilization's physical presence might be nothing but infrastructure, which that civilization depends on to exist ... I'm not sure this is really a better thing to be doing, Mr. Galente. |
Matar Ronin
1747
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 14:23:21 -
[52] - Quote
Sorry to have to burst some bubbles, but if you are a capsuleer it's pretty much an easily reached, factually assured conclusion, Yes you are a murdering monster. The nationality of who we murder, or the reason we feel justified in committing their murder, takes none the murder off our hands.
No I am not counting the times you had to defend your own life and the life of your crew or fleet mates. However all those times you chose to stand and fight instead of warping out, yes those do count on the murder toll.
It's kind of one of the things we all do, fly ships and murder people.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2341
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 15:07:27 -
[53] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Sorry to have to burst some bubbles, but if you are a capsuleer it's pretty much an easily reached, factually assured conclusion, Yes you are a murdering monster. The nationality of who we murder, or the reason we feel justified in committing their murder, takes none the murder off our hands.
No I am not counting the times you had to defend your own life and the life of your crew or fleet mates. However all those times you chose to stand and fight instead of warping out, yes those do count on the murder toll.
It's kind of one of the things we all do, fly ships and murder people.
I know that. I've been largely at peace with it.
... and trying a little bit not to be, because it doesn't seem like a thing humans should be at peace with.
Sansha's Nation-- sure. It needs to be destroyed. That's more like fighting a wildfire than conducting a massacre, anyway.
The Blood Raiders-- sure. I mean, I guess. Sani societies aren't stable. They're not safe, for themselves or anyone around them. The Covenant needs to perish, to be driven into collapse and the remnants hunted.
The others-- the Cartel, the Guristas, the Serpentis-- they're ruthless. They can be brutal and deadly. ... So can we, though.
If I kill a battleship, I'm destroying basically everyone who's standing within about a kilometer of each other, give or take-- and I'm killing them basically because they were standing in that space, which I'm being paid to kill everyone standing in. People whose primary crime is probably just that they were born on the wrong planet.
It's really hard to say that everyone, or probably even most of the people, standing in that space really deserved to die. It's not like they really have all that much of a chance, either. A fleet can be a modest challenge.
I'm okay with being an instrument in others' hands. I'm okay with playing my part, even if that means burning some luckless person's shadow to a wall, then blowing that wall out into space. Or boiling the blood in their veins and the viscera in their bellies. Or slashing them with shrapnel, or delivering a lethal dose of radiation. Even if that means doing that to a million of them. Ten million.
That's what I signed up for when I chose to accept what I am.
But if you look at those numbers without unease, Mr. Ronin ...
... I begin to think, at the end of all this, they'll probably kill us. Our host civilizations.
And when they do, I don't think we'll have a lot of reason to complain. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2275
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 15:11:29 -
[54] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:It's kind of one of the things we all do, fly ships and murder people.
Plenty of miners and freighter pilots out there in high-sec who'd disagree. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2341
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 15:34:08 -
[55] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:It's kind of one of the things we all do, fly ships and murder people. Plenty of miners and freighter pilots out there in high-sec who'd disagree.
Well-- only, industrial capsuleers mostly serve to arm those of us who do.
The whole capsuleer economy's pretty bloody. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2275
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 15:43:22 -
[56] - Quote
Yeah, but taken that way, all of human endeavour has served only to produce us. So....
Really, you can't blame industrialists and freight haulers for the things we do with their wares. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6407
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 18:01:55 -
[57] - Quote
It is more than possible to make your way as a capsuleer without engaging in the blind slaughter of billions of baseliner ships crews. I may have killed more people than a reasonably virulent influenza strain, but most of them were crew on a ship that met or exceeded the specfications of my own and was out there, in harm's way, specifically to bring harm to me or those like me.
Maker knows that I have my reasons for not sleeping well at night (the fact that I sleep the sleep of the righteous amongst those reasons) but to say that this HAS to be one of them is incorrect.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Jason Galente
Hole Riders Spaceship Samurai
739
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 18:50:56 -
[58] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Quote:Jason Galente wrote:This is why in a very short time I've grown to prefer sleeper sites to bounty hunting pirate baseliners.
At least in those cases all I'm doing is destroying vast amounts of potentially useful advanced technology.
And where's the harm in that? And, you know, inciting the Drifters to wake up and start killing people. Also, most indications to date are that the Sleepers are an upload civilization whose infrastructure we're attacking and degrading. Considering that an upload civilization's physical presence might be nothing but infrastructure, which that civilization depends on to exist ... I'm not sure this is really a better thing to be doing, Mr. Galente.
Weren't you the one arguing against me when I claimed that wormholers are killing Sleepers and that something about Sleepers seemed alive?
Either a change of heart or hypocrisy, Ms. Jenneth.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2279
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 19:02:58 -
[59] - Quote
Nah, it's something she's aware of, but it doesn't change the basic calculus: right now, we don't have a lot of ways to learn about them other than blowing them up and pawing through the wreckage like hungry procyonids. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2345
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 19:54:41 -
[60] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Weren't you the one arguing against me when I claimed that wormholers are killing Sleepers and that something about Sleepers seemed alive?
Either a change of heart or hypocrisy, Ms. Jenneth.
That discussion was over whether Sleeper "ships" are manned, Mr. Galente. I'm still pretty sure they aren't-- that they're an old automated system for maintenance and defense.
That's not to say that destroying them is a good thing. If you look at them closely, they appear more designed for maintenance than warfare: so many manipulators and tools. What happens to an infrastructure when you kill the things that keep it running?
It degrades.
(And that's before you start hacking access points and pulling vital components out of it.)
What happens to an upload civilization when the system it's running on starts breaking down? I don't know, and it probably depends some on how it's designed, but I bet it's worse than your house starting to look a bit shabby.
Arrendis wrote:Nah, it's something she's aware of, but it doesn't change the basic calculus: right now, we don't have a lot of ways to learn about them other than blowing them up and pawing through the wreckage like hungry procyonids.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ms. Arrendis, but I actually maintain a line in my mind between the Sleepers and the Drifters. The Sleepers, I kind of think we should leave alone (and probably should always have left alone). The Drifters ... even if they're the Sleepers' response to our failing to leave them alone, they're a deadly adversary that doesn't reliably shoot at passing ships but also doesn't reliably not assassinate heads of state with doomsday-scale weapons.
We need to learn as much about the Drifters and their activities as we can, as quickly as possible, and I have no particular problem blowing through the Sleeper drones that get in the way. The Drifters might be the Sleepers retaliating against us, but, even if we sort of brought this on ourselves we can't really just let ourselves be killed (or whatever they have in mind).
To use a weird analogy (I'm blaming this on you, Mr. Egivand), it's the difference between objecting when your companions start looting an old and probably-haunted necropolis, and refusing to pitch in when they reap a bounty of angry ghosts. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |