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KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:44:46 -
[1] - Quote
Please tell me what you think about this rule. I returned to EVE after a long period of absence and find our that "All good loot (not t1 - t2) goes to FC" very common now among some big communities in EVE. I remember that long ago such rule were never in use.
So please tell me is it a trend in EVE now for most of corp and alliances, or it is an strange exception? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45094
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:47:38 -
[2] - Quote
Some of the public roam groups do it (eg. bombers bar) and they use it to fund ship replacement, throw some ISK to links alts, etc.
Easy enough not to fly in those roams if you don't like the concept.
There's certainly many alternatives approaches in use too.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
113
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:51:41 -
[3] - Quote
And the FC might only be compensated for his efforts through part of this arrangement. Usually if we kill something very shiny loot goes to an FC, a central corporation or a person who is willing to divide it amongst the group or towards a particular cause. If you fly T1 stuff insuring the ship should cover most of your costs.
An alternative rule "you get to keep what you scoop" has too many perverse incentives and potential drama causing elements that it's just easier to give it all to the fc and "let him deal with it" (turning stuff into isk is what some of us are too lazy for so this is actually quite convenient.)
ps. i reserve the right to keep any corpses scooped on roams :D |
KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:53:38 -
[4] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Some of the public roam groups do it (eg. bombers bar) and they use it to fund ship replacement, throw some ISK to links alts, etc.
Easy enough not to fly in those roams if you don't like the concept.
There's certainly many alternatives approaches in use too.
No I mean ALL LOOT TO FK - doesn't mean replacement and compensations. Doesn't matter how many losses FK will not compensate it from the loot. |
KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:55:21 -
[5] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:And the FC might only be compensated for his efforts through part of this arrangement. Usually if we kill something very shiny loot goes to an FC, a central corporation or a person who is willing to divide it amongst the group or towards a particular cause. If you fly T1 stuff insuring the ship should cover most of your costs.
An alternative rule "you get to keep what you scoop" has too many perverse incentives and potential drama causing elements that it's just easier to give it all to the fc and "let him deal with it" (turning stuff into isk is what some of us are too lazy for so this is actually quite convenient.)
ps. i reserve the right to keep any corpses scooped on roams :D
Also I dont mean that the loot will be spreaded among members by FK - he will just keep all the loot to himself. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45094
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Posted - 2016.09.23 10:56:09 -
[6] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Some of the public roam groups do it (eg. bombers bar) and they use it to fund ship replacement, throw some ISK to links alts, etc.
Easy enough not to fly in those roams if you don't like the concept.
There's certainly many alternatives approaches in use too. No I mean ALL LOOT TO FK - doesn't mean replacement and compensations. Doesn't matter how many losses FK will not compensate it from the loot. Then don't fly in those fleets if you don't like it.
Go organise your own roams (and find out how much effort goes into building systems for good regular public roams) and then keep it all for yourself. You'll soon realise how much effort the FC puts in compared to most in the fleet (including the before fleet prep).
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
42
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:20:46 -
[7] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:You'll soon realise how much effort the FC puts in compared to most in the fleet (including the before fleet prep).
Indeed, feel free to become a content creator, instigator and hoarder or lemmings. Then you get to decide what to do with the loot and you can deal with the "waah but he took all the loot, why does he get all the loot, he didn't even do a lot of damage, I got the kill does that I mean i get the loot" nonsense OR you can decide to do the "I'm not interested in your loot whines, it goes all to me. End of story, stop whining".
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KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:32:46 -
[8] - Quote
Please ppl stop telling me what to do. Im not asking that. I was asking only about how common is that trend, thats all.
Ans yes, I dont like this trend and yes, I will look for corps and fleets that dont use it. Why? Because EVE is a full loot game and when in such fleets it is not full loot game for pilots in it, except one. It is only my opinion and Im not trying to convince anyone that my opinion is the best and only.
Also I know by my own experience that FCs is a hard job, but very interesting. In my opinion FCs vocation, and true FCs will never use such rule, he is flying and FCsing because he loves it it is his choice and he doesn't care about all the loot. But again it is my thoughts only. Please notice until you started telling me what to do if I dont like it I wasnt expressing them.
My question still written at the top of the page, and thats all I want to know, |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45095
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:35:06 -
[9] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Please ppl stop telling me what to do. Im not asking that. I was asking only about how common is that trend, thats all. Ummm, from your OP:
"Please tell me what you think about this rule. "
If you don't like what we think that's ok, but we just responded to what you asked for.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:41:33 -
[10] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:[quote=KatherinZaa][quote=Scipio Artelius]Some of the public roam groups do it (eg. bombers bar) and Then don't fly in those fleets if you don't like it.
Go organise your own roams (and find out how much effort goes into building systems for good regular public roams) and then keep it all for yourself. You'll soon realise how much effort the FC puts in compared to most in the fleet (including the before fleet prep).
I mean this. |
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3495
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:44:48 -
[11] - Quote
all loot to Perunga?
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2927
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:51:49 -
[12] - Quote
Some have that rule, some for good reason (ship reimbursement), some don't. Most fleets I'm flying with either don't care at all or use the shiny stuff for reimbursements. Within corps the rules may be different.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3495
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:53:48 -
[13] - Quote
i like srp so dont mind giving loot to alliance, i dont even bother picking up loot, but if its gatecamping and we kill something shiney then splitting it between everyone seems fair.
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Yarosara Ruil
622
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Posted - 2016.09.23 11:57:42 -
[14] - Quote
This is true to EVE as it is to any MMO. If a FC/Raid Leader/Commander/etc. asks you to give up your fair share of loot in order to join, it is entirely in your power to say no.
Is it common in EVE? I have no idea, but my experience with other MMOs is that your rights within a group both start and end the moment you give your consent to the group rules after they have been stated.
Then again, this is EVE, so nothing is stopping you from going Robin Hood on the loot. |
Memphis Baas
2034
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:08:37 -
[15] - Quote
This is the equivalent of the Master Loot scheme you see in other MMO's.
All loot goes to the raid leader, and then he or she has some sort of out-of-game app that calculates how it should be distributed based on accumulated raid attendance points or DKP or whatever excel spreadsheet they use.
The system has several advantages:
- it's fair; you know ahead of time what you're likely to get, based on the spreadsheet that's published on the guild website - it prevents ninja looting / loot theft - it expedites the op / raid / mission because people don't stop to bicker for loot right after the fight, as the loot can be handed out after the raid or sent via mail
Believe it or not, the free-for-all loot system (everyone loots whatever they kill or whatever they can) often results in no loot for you, because others are much faster to get to it than you are. It's just a lot of frustration. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
555
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:20:06 -
[16] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:This is the equivalent of the Master Loot scheme you see in other MMO's.
All loot goes to the raid leader, and then he or she has some sort of out-of-game app that calculates how it should be distributed based on accumulated raid attendance points or DKP or whatever excel spreadsheet they use.
The system has several advantages:
- it's fair; you know ahead of time what you're likely to get, based on the spreadsheet that's published on the guild website - it prevents ninja looting / loot theft - it expedites the op / raid / mission because people don't stop to bicker for loot right after the fight, as the loot can be handed out after the raid or sent via mail
Believe it or not, the free-for-all loot system (everyone loots whatever they kill or whatever they can) often results in no loot for you, because others are much faster to get to it than you are. It's just a lot of frustration.
EDIT: Anyway, the master loot system is VERY common in other MMO's, almost to the point of being the only way it's done.
And yes, if there's a joint operation that's open to the public, the few pubbies that join the op will not get any loot, or only get loot if nobody in the organizing corp needs it. Such ops are often stealth recruitment interviews, too: they can observe your skills and if you're chill and don't whine about the lack of loot, they'll invite you to the corp. If you whine, they won't invite you again.
How much drama you cause in an "unfair" situation matters. Because you'll encounter plenty of "unfair", or at the very least "please don't be selfish" situations in a corp. What the **** is a "raid".
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Memphis Baas
2034
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:21:32 -
[17] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Also I know by my own experience that FCs is a hard job, but very interesting. In my opinion FCs vocation, and true FCs will never use such rule, he is flying and FCsing because he loves it it is his choice and he doesn't care about all the loot.
FC's that do it as a "vocation" and "because it's interesting" will take steps to maximize their fun and how interesting it is. That means they won't invite whiny pubbies, and generally will leave the loot distribution and drama to an assistant.
Or they won't even bother with loot, because as you said "they only do it because it's interesting". So the order to warp to the next objective is given as soon as the last enemy is killed, nobody waits for anybody to have time to loot, and if you stop to do so you're disobeying the FC orders and bye bye.
Either way, you're never going to see public "just for the fun" FC's. Because you'll never be invited to a fleet by one. They simply maximize their fun by keeping it all within the corp or alliance, no pubbies.
So consider that.
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Memphis Baas
2034
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:23:01 -
[18] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:What the **** is a "raid". I'm not gonna use EVE terms and acronyms when talking about how OTHER MMO's do it.
Google it. |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3495
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:23:59 -
[19] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Please ppl stop telling me what to do. Im not asking that. I was asking only about how common is that trend, thats all.
Ans yes, I dont like this trend and yes, I will look for corps and fleets that dont use it. Why? Because EVE is a full loot game and when in such fleets it is not full loot game for pilots in it, except one. It is only my opinion and Im not trying to convince anyone that my opinion is the best and only.
Also I know by my own experience that FCs is a hard job, but very interesting. In my opinion FCs vocation, and true FCs will never use such rule, he is flying and FCsing because he loves it it is his choice and he doesn't care about all the loot. But again it is my thoughts only. Please notice until you started telling me what to do if I dont like it I wasnt expressing them.
My question still written at the top of the page, and thats all I want to know,
wouldnt expect to get your ship's srp'd then, what means more to you, a few shekels from a blown up interceptor or isk back for your 1bil proteus you lost?
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Robot Robot
What.
11
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:45:47 -
[20] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Then again, this is EVE, so nothing is stopping you from going Robin Hood on the loot.
Underrated comment.
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
555
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:55:36 -
[21] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: wouldnt expect to get your ship's srp'd then, what means more to you, a few shekels from a blown up interceptor or isk back for your 1bil proteus you lost?
1 billion Proteus? Please... Don't be poor..
But back on topic. How we do it in Bombers Bar is quite simple, really. All the loot either goes to the FC, who contracts it to our management corp, or the fleet members contract it directly. The only exception to that rule is that a hunter killer gets to chose a single item from a unfortunate victim he caught, which he can keep for himself.
The isk from that loot is used for OBomberCare (our SRP program - trademark pending) or to buy fuel / bombs / other stuff.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3495
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Posted - 2016.09.23 12:59:02 -
[22] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:1 billion Proteus? Please... Don't be poor..
what you mean poor?
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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KatherinZaa
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
0
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Posted - 2016.09.23 13:05:47 -
[23] - Quote
Maybe I explained it wrongly. I beleive that loot distributing among members is good. SRP is good when losts ships compensated from loot.
My concerns is only about ALL loot to FC - no compensation no distribution. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
479
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Posted - 2016.09.23 13:30:48 -
[24] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:And the FC might only be compensated for his efforts through part of this arrangement. Usually if we kill something very shiny loot goes to an FC, a central corporation or a person who is willing to divide it amongst the group or towards a particular cause. If you fly T1 stuff insuring the ship should cover most of your costs.
An alternative rule "you get to keep what you scoop" has too many perverse incentives and potential drama causing elements that it's just easier to give it all to the fc and "let him deal with it" (turning stuff into isk is what some of us are too lazy for so this is actually quite convenient.)
ps. i reserve the right to keep any corpses scooped on roams :D
I agree, too often people fight over stuff, and if the corp has a ship replacement program then this help fund it as well as banking for mods or BPC for the corp, a lot goes on that the minions don't always see, now on the other hand if your ISK making is getting cut by too many fleet ops that are mandatory and then on top of this you have to 'give up' the loot I would say it is imbalanced and would try to work it out with the FC that you need more time devoted to earning, I think most people understand that not everyone can play enough to fund themselves for their needs because of RL, hopefully your Corp understands and won't just kick you, good luck. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
556
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Posted - 2016.09.23 13:42:01 -
[25] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Maybe I explained it wrongly. I beleive that loot distributing among members is good. SRP is good when losts ships compensated from loot.
My concerns is only about ALL loot to FC - no compensation no distribution. Afaik, it's not very common.. But well, I only hang around in Bombers Bar and talk about the good ol' days all day long without actually playing the game, so I guess I wouldn't know either way.
My advice would be to just not fly with those FCs.
Lan Wang wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:1 billion Proteus? Please... Don't be poor.. what you mean poor? http://i.giphy.com/xTiTnHhWZabtU3MIEM.gif
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1204
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Posted - 2016.09.23 13:54:05 -
[26] - Quote
KatherinZaa wrote:Maybe I explained it wrongly. I beleive that loot distributing among members is good. SRP is good when losts ships compensated from loot.
My concerns is only about ALL loot to FC - no compensation no distribution.
I have never seen that nor has it come up as a common forum topic. I would hazard a guess then that it is rare not a trend.
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Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2016.09.23 14:09:12 -
[27] - Quote
You can steal their loot if you want to. Just be careful next time. Derp. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14746
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Posted - 2016.09.23 14:44:30 -
[28] - Quote
These "someone is doing something I don't like ARRGGGG" threads are popping up way more often here. Like the last one about API keys and the one before that about killmails.
Let me tell you, I used to FC back when Faction Warfare 1st started (on another character, Cassius Rex). It got to the point that if I logged in in Villore or Old Man's Star, local would instantly erupt with "Cassius, start a fleet!!!" by many people. I wasn't even that good, the advantage I did have was that I existed when other FCs mostly didn't (lol). I'd make a fleet and fly out to kill squids and would get all kinds of 'suggestions" and back seat FCing on comms and in chat. When I'd whelp a fleet (ie most times) I'd get loads of criticism....from people who were not the FC.
So I'd say"If you don't like my FCing, don't join my fleet" and "it's ok if you want to FC, il;ll give you the star right now". NO ONE ever took me up on that offer, and i eventually left FW for npc nullsec because I got sick of people thinking that I owed them a fleet.
So i'll say the same here. If you don't like an FC's policy about loot (or the need to give a corp an API key, or the fact that someone can see the officer fit Raven you whelped because of killmails), Kindly consider JUST SODDING OFF and doing your own damn fleets and corps. |
Serene Repose
3049
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Posted - 2016.09.23 18:58:26 -
[29] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:KatherinZaa wrote:Please ppl stop telling me what to do. Im not asking that. I was asking only about how common is that trend, thats all. Ummm, from your OP: "Please tell me what you think about this rule. "If you don't like what we think that's ok, but we just responded to what you asked for. Some people want you to fish an idea out of their heads, then tell them they should think that. I know. There isn't a name for it . . . yet.
"...I do post about things I don't know about more often than I probably should (...I post...as I fly...recklessly).
-Dirty Forum Alt-
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
578
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Posted - 2016.09.23 19:10:46 -
[30] - Quote
If it doesnt go to the FC, in my experience the other place it goes is to the logi pilots. Pretty fair imo
@lunettelulu7
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