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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
320
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Posted - 2011.12.22 12:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi folks. It's been a pretty busy last couple of weeks but I finally managed to put together a worthy summary of CSM 6's December Summit. I tried to do more than just write a small blurb about each session. There's pics and a lot of general information about what went down. The CSM's session with Hilmar was particularly interesting this time around. As for the rest, while I couldn't go into specific details on some things, there are a few nuggets of info in all this that you should find interesting. The official minutes are being worked on and should hopefully be out shortly after the holidays.
CSM 6 December Summit Report
I could have written more but I wanted to get this thing out before Christmas. I hope you enjoy the write up. Feel free to ask questions and I'll keep an eye on this thread and try to reply as time allows. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
1265
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Posted - 2011.12.22 12:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good writeup, thanks!
Looking forward to the coming devblogs.
/c
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
323
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Good writeup, thanks!
Looking forward to the coming devblogs.
/c
How do you always get first post? HOW? Are you a wizard? Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2137
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Very niceGǪ
I suppose this means I should get off my ass and actually make that GÇ£Efficient UIGÇ¥ thread I've been thinking about for the last few months. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
1265
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Chribba wrote:Good writeup, thanks!
Looking forward to the coming devblogs.
/c How do you always get first post? HOW? Are you a wizard? Rumor has it that I simply have no life, no job and a scripted refresh button
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1018
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Generally good stuff and much appreciate your efforts.
I still disagree with your notion on "vanity" content for microtransactions though and strongly believe that ship-skins and such things should be a player industry (lp function) rather than delivered through some nonsense like the NeX store.
Seleene(from the blog) wrote:Okay, I'm just going to say again that I'm not opposed to CCP making money for fluff in the game. I actually think that if implemented properly they could do some very cool things with it. Doing it improperly (Incarna) cost CCP more than just some subscriptions - it's made the entire player base even more skeptical of the entire concept. Still, there are a number of cosmetic, non-gameplay affecting things, that could be done through the MT route such as ship paint jobs (flames on my Rifter!) or corp uniforms for Incarna.
I think it IS time for CCP to remove the Aurum from the game and at the same time tidy up damaged relations with the player base by moving ALL NeX assets published and unpublished into the player domain either by direct inclusion within the character designer or placing into the faction loyalty point stores (depending on how much butthurt one wishes to avoid from people who paid $ for aurum).
Is important to avoid mixed messages though, and I do think there is a danger that potentially green-lighting "vanity" transactions in the way your blog post comes across will lead to future insanities on this score.
For the record I too don't have a problem with CCP making extra income from the player base in some ways but since they already have PLEX for ISK transfers, and extra account subs for eve addicts - I frankly see no honest role for "vanity" microtransactions. Introduce content that costs a lot of isk that lazy players will trade PLEX ISK for by all means. Don't remove industrial/exploration/gameplay content from the game by crowbarring it onto the server through a cash shop.
CSM on the whole should be careful to reflect player opinion accurately on these issues specifically because at the moment i'm not sure you are.
***
PS. Your main link in the body text isn't working. Need to fix it.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais Cosmic Allianz
6
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote: CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves.
Can we get some more details please? Like what you mentioned, biggest isues, what CCP Tallest answared? |
Logan LaMort
Black Rebel Rifter Club
1157
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks, that was an interesting read and a good write up.
Question about the art stuff, are we possibly looking at new turrets/V3 textures/warp effect/nebuale kind of awesome or something much more? |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
323
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Generally good stuff and much appreciate your efforts.
I still disagree with your notion on "vanity" content for microtransactions though and strongly believe that ship-skins and such things should be a player industry (lp function) rather than delivered through some nonsense like the NeX store.
If they could come up with something like that which worked well, I would wholeheartedly endorse it. I'm not beholden to a particular way of doing this at all.
Quote:I think it IS time for CCP to remove the Aurum from the game and at the same time tidy up damaged relations with the player base by moving ALL NeX assets published and unpublished into the player domain either by direct inclusion within the character designer or placing into the faction loyalty point stores (depending on how much butthurt one wishes to avoid from people who paid $ for aurum).
Quite a few of the CSM were making the point that Aurum is a damaged name brand and it just needs to be killed with fire.
Quote:Is important to avoid mixed messages though, and I do think there is a danger that potentially green-lighting "vanity" transactions in the way your blog post comes across will lead to future insanities on this score.
Don't worry too much on that account. Their first attempt was a massive failure that they seemed to have learned from. It was pretty apparent that work on that kind of thing has been shelved for the immediate future while they sort out the smartest, not the quickest, way to do it. Looking at the industry and the money that's in this sort of thing like League of Legends and such, I believe it's inevitable that an MMO like EVE wouldn't attempt to cash in somehow. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Disdaine
53
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is what I like to see from the CSM.
Bring on the dev blogs. |
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
323
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Jombardo wrote:Quote: CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves.
Can we get some more details please? Like what you mentioned, biggest isues, what CCP Tallest answared?
I've said pretty much all I can at this point. We walked through each ship class and said things about each one; what was good or bad, what needed to be looked at, etc... The important thing is that balancing ships is CCP Tallest's main job. We won't be waiting to see results from these discussions 6 months from now. We should be seeing continuous and evolving balancing on several things much more often.
Logan LaMort wrote:Thanks, that was an interesting read and a good write up.
Question about the art stuff, are we possibly looking at new turrets/V3 textures/warp effect/nebuale kind of awesome or something much more?
Yes to all, really. Yes to questions you haven't asked as well. We made sure that Art understood when they start showing some of this stuff to have videos, not just words and pictures. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
30
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Don't know if it's the forums but that link leads to the usual warning about leaving but with no url visible then to a blank page.
Using Firefox.
Perhaps the Bold has broke something.
/edit works fine now *shrugs*
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
323
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Don't know if it's the forums but that link leads to the usual warning about leaving but with no url visible then to a blank page.
Using Firefox.
Perhaps the Bold has broke something.
Yep, that's what it was. The bold. Been fixed now. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Ruiner Drudge
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
I went from having 7 accounts to having 1 because of the absolute disgrace that AUR/NeX created. This account still has it's "free" 1000AUR (I was honestly insulted by this). I will not be spending it, it needs to be removed from my wallet. I'm not a cash cow or a golden goose.
With that said, thank you for the link, it's always nice to get an inside perspective. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1018
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
(on removing NeX clothing to the character designer / LP stores etc)
Seleene wrote:If they could come up with something like that which worked well, I would wholeheartedly endorse it. I'm not beholden to a particular way of doing this at all.
Well, how about we press for a discussion on the issue "how to unravel NeX/Aurum from Eve" and ask developers to become involved. I imagine you'd agree that the easiest way would be to simply move all the assets the character designer and scrub the NeX link and call it done - could we do that? How much effort would be involved in sorting these things to the faction LP stores? Without a dialogue with the appropriate developers / decision makers - its still all up in the air.
Seleene wrote:Quite a few of the CSM were making the point that Aurum is a damaged name brand and it just needs to be killed with fire.
Yep, "poisoned brand" is much what it is. Some failures are so bad you do need to ditch the concept and genuinely start again.
Seleene wrote:Don't worry too much on that account. Their first attempt was a massive failure that they seemed to have learned from. It was pretty apparent that work on that kind of thing has been shelved for the immediate future while they sort out the smartest, not the quickest, way to do it. Looking at the industry and the money that's in this sort of thing like League of Legends and such, I believe it's inevitable that an MMO like EVE wouldn't attempt to cash in somehow.
What I worry about is that you personally (and I assume that represents a general feeling from the CSM) seem not to see a problem with "fluff content" (like ship skins and clothing) not being included by default in the game client and becoming an optional "vanity" category of future microtransaction. I think this is a terrible mistake and its opening the door to the notion of the "hybrid model" (subs+MT) and it cannot help but subdivide the Eve population between MT haves and have nots that will introduce additional pressure to (RL)"keep up with the joneses" quite at odds to the role of an MMO's tranditional relaxation and entertainment role.
But bluntly, I believe people play MMO's to escape the bullshit economic pressures of their day job. They login to a fictional universe and virtual gameworld and play with their spaceships bought with space currency and gain a release from the 50 hours a week dayjob, mortgage and car replayments. By engineering an intrusion of RL $ shadowing over the playfield of Eve Online you actually mess with the game's ability to suspend disbelief and help people relax. By remainding Eve players who are "failures in real life" (who can't afford $ 1000 dollar jeans) that they are also "failures in New Eden" because they can't afford $1000 dollar ship skins there either - you run the risk of making Eve "too real" and making it a turn off to people who actually want some fantasy and distance from the economic apocalypse we are living through in the last embers of 2011.
There are games out there that are specifically for rich socially innept twats in real life to prance around in cyber dresses that cost more than most people pay in subs for a year. (Perfect World International to name but one).
I don't think Eve should even flirt with that route.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1484
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Posted - 2011.12.22 13:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Excellent write-up, Selene, and extremely encouraging reading. Here's hoping that CCP and the EVE community can rebuild the energy that was driving the game after Apocrypha. My outlook for the next expansion has changed from "Well maybe they won't break all that many things I care about too badly" to "Man, I can't wait for the summer expansion!"
My thanks to you and all the CSM team for all that you've accomplished.
And yeah, there's definitely still more to be done with supercaps, after a good start. Not just completing the job of focusing them on capital-killing, but also to give them a genuine battlefield/strategic role other than "huge great shooty thing".
Looking forward to 2012
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
43
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
i endorse this product and/or service !
nice blog ! |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
382
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Great stuff Seleene, thanks for taking the time to write it all up.
Now I'm salivating over those CSM minutes and what extra hints they'll bring.
2012 looks to be a good year for Eve. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Read the whole thing, pretty interesting stuff.
Up side: it's good to see CCP going back to excellence, FiS and nullsec stuff. Warms my heart to remind me why i love this game.
Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?), hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.
Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence".
Not very engaging. |
Rixiu
North Star Networks The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:*snip* I have to second this for a number of reasons
First: CCP is looking at microtransactions from the wrong perspective. In most other games people only pay for one account and then adding microtransactions makes sense as it's a simple way to allow people to pay more for a game they love. In EVE things are different, this "optional payment" already exist since many pay for a second, third or even more accounts and it would not be out of the way to look at these "extra" accounts as some kind of large monthly microtransaction.
Second: Pretty much every item that can theoretically be sold in a microtransaction store is better of as implemented as more regular content. Lets take paintjobs for an example, give ships a paint-slot (preferably a cooler name) and then add paint-modules (or better yet, blueprints for more industry gameplay) to the LP stores of the different factions/corps and pirate faction loot drops and whatnot. More content = Higher chance of someone finding he/she likes to do = more players
Third: Microtransactions are a slippery slope as we have already seen from CCPs side (convenience, finished ship for aurum...)
I can understand why CCP want microtransactions since it's the FOTM payment model at the moment in the industry. But a lot of players despise microtransactions like the devil (including myself) and CCP could very well try to think of EVE more as pay-ticket-recieve-all-the-bacon-instead-of-just-a-little-for-free-and-the-rest-will-cost-you-lots-of-money.
Interesting blog though, looking forward to the minutes and if the new trinity-trailer-moment is half as good the original I'm going to **** myself, that trailer is what made me start playing eve. |
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J Kunjeh
99
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
A most excellent write-up Seleene, thank you so much for taking the time to do that for the players. Can't wait to read the official minutes. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
EcthelionStrongbow
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
2
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Read the whole thing, pretty interesting stuff.
Up side: it's good to see CCP going back to excellence, FiS and nullsec stuff. Warms my heart to remind me why i love this game.
Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?), hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.
Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence".
Not very engaging.
I can definitely see your point but I think CCP is tackling the easier problems of fixing null sec sov, pos misery, etc. I think that high sec has a bigger problem of what to do with high sec. In null sec, they have basically given the players a lot of tools that work somewhat well for generating content (structure bashing as content sucks but it's still content). In high sec there is such a limited amount of content that can be created by the players because of the rules of high sec.
I think my main question is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?"
Overall great write up Seleene. Hopefully post holidays there will be enough info out there to let players be CCP's best salespeople. |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
113
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
That was a nice read.
Any idea when the official minutes will be out? Anastasia -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á Dominique-á-á Mashie -á-á Monica |
Written Word
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bleh, the thought of "convenience MTs" needs to be taken out back and shot. Looking forward to the next "Sure we'll spawn scorpions and nahh the CSM is totally chill for us doing it" moment from CCP.
Cool features will be laiden with "Insert Aurum to move stuff, Insert Aurum for standings, Insert Aurum for X" |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
326
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?),
"You all" doesn't really mean CSM in this case. The Incarna roll-out was a disaster for several reasons, not the least of which was a single (ugly) CQ and graphics cards melting. When CCP can come up with a way to actually get several dozen (at least) avatars in a shared space together, they will probably re-visit the concept of Promenades or Establishments. Personally, I just want there to be some kind of game play element attached to WiS so it's not just a fashion show. When CCP has a plan for all that, and everything I've seen thus far indicates that they do not, then I'm sure we'll hear about it and maybe see more WiS content.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.
We're all playing the same game. I honestly don't get this attitude at all unless you are just looking to pointless rage at alliance tags without any regard for the histories of the people on the CSM.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence". .
Dude, stop trolling. :) There were pages and pages of fixes and changes in Crucible that applied to general game play and had nothing at all to do with whatever your game play style was. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
326
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
EcthelionStrongbow wrote:I think my main question is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?"
It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention. Some folks just wanna mine away solo or play the market and never undock, etc... What kind of activities are eventually made available will still fall within the same old 'risk vs. reward' argument, but I do know this topic is not being ignored. As I said near the end of the blog, there are so many more people working directly on EVE that this is the kind of stuff that can finally be addressed properly.
For now, obviously, CCP is going to focus on the 'low hanging fruit' that it can fix immediately while developing sound mechanics that won't upset the balance of the whole game. It's a totally smart way to do stuff. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
328
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:That was a nice read.
Any idea when the official minutes will be out?
Best guess is mid-January. Lots of motivation to get the info out ASAP.
Written Word wrote:Bleh, the thought of "convenience MTs" needs to be taken out back and shot. Looking forward to the next "Sure we'll spawn scorpions and nahh the CSM is totally chill for us doing it" moment from CCP.
Cool features will be laiden with "Insert Aurum to move stuff, Insert Aurum for standings, Insert Aurum for X"
Nah, I'm pretty sure we made it clear what we think of Aurum and any future plans for it. It's impossible to say with any certainty what CCP will do about it but whatever it is, I don't think it will be more knee jerk stuff like we've seen in the past.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
EcthelionStrongbow
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
2
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seleene wrote:EcthelionStrongbow wrote:I think my main question is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?" It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention. Some folks just wanna mine away solo or play the market and never undock, etc... What kind of activities are eventually made available will still fall within the same old 'risk vs. reward' argument, but I do know this topic is not being ignored. As I said near the end of the blog, there are so many more people working directly on EVE that this is the kind of stuff that can finally be addressed properly. For now, obviously, CCP is going to focus on the 'low hanging fruit' that it can fix immediately while developing sound mechanics that won't upset the balance of the whole game. It's a totally smart way to do stuff.
Glad to hear that it is being worked on.
I was just pointing out that in my opinion the future of high sec is a much more difficult question than what to do with low , WH, or null sec since there are so many more rules that effect gameplay. I think it would be interesting to be on the team brainstorming answers to that question but it would probably be quite frusterating as well. |
Roime
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
65
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Seleene wrote:This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has a successful expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done.
FYP
Thanks for the excellent write-up! Things seem to be pointing skywards for EVE.
I'm especially happy for the Art team, they seem to be very talented and I'm glad they work on stuff they love <3
I also feel that not enough credit has been given to Hilmar, I mean it's ultra rare that a visionary leader actually has the balls to turn around and readjust things, and learn from mistakes.
Idk, a bit of a mindless post, I just realized how important this "game" has become for me. Fantastic work, all I can say.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
206
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Wow. Lotta "this was cool but NDA" in that article.
You have made some VERY bold claims.
I hope we see something that makes my jaw drop at some point.
All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |
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Logan LaMort
Black Rebel Rifter Club
1157
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Logan LaMort wrote:Thanks, that was an interesting read and a good write up.
Question about the art stuff, are we possibly looking at new turrets/V3 textures/warp effect/nebuale kind of awesome or something much more? Yes to all, really. Yes to questions you haven't asked as well. We made sure that Art understood when they start showing some of this stuff to have videos, not just words and pictures.
That's good to know and I'll be content with that for now, because trust me I'd love to go into the details and specifics but I'm well aware of the mighty ~NDA~
I can relate to Trinity however, since I first started playing EVE back during Red Moon Rising. That makes me think you're right about saving it for fanfast, after all this is the first fanfest since the debacle of Incarna and the new emphasis of FIS from Crucible. I think CCP will probably be saving a lot to wow us over those couple of days... but regardless I am excited. I also forgot how badass the BSG space battles were
Also I really do appreciate the rest of the write up, I read it all and I'm interested in those developments too, it really was a good read
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
387
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seleene wrote: It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention.
CCP seriously need to put another set of eyes or three on the NPE.
I started a new character the other day just to see what had changed. On the second mission I was given a shield booster (not civilian any more, cool) and expected to fit it onto my ship and use it after taking damage after a container exploded.
...but you don't start out with the skills to use a basic shield booster any more, and Aura hadn't explained anything about skills to me yet and that I'd need some for that toy she gave me.
Little things like that where a new player quickly gets confused and thinks they did something wrong makes a very bad first impression - and like the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
245
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 16:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
cant comment much because you didnt specify any details, but i hope theyre on the right track regarding FW, nullsec and ship class balancing. these three things are all that matters in EVE right now. PVP has become complete shite. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
329
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Seleene wrote: It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention.
CCP seriously need to put another set of eyes or three on the NPE. I started a new character the other day just to see what had changed. On the second mission I was given a shield booster (not civilian any more, cool) and expected to fit it onto my ship and use it after taking damage after a container exploded. ...but you don't start out with the skills to use a basic shield booster any more, and Aura hadn't explained anything about skills to me yet and that I'd need some for that toy she gave me. Little things like that where a new player quickly gets confused and thinks they did something wrong makes a very bad first impression - and like the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression
There were three representatives for the NPE team in our meeting and it was quite a good session. I have no idea why one of them took notes on post-it notes but she had about 30 of them scribbled on after the meeting. As far as first impressions go, getting the Rookie ships re-skinned was something we really pushed for and it's actually going to happen. Art resources are solid gold so the fact that they did this says a lot about how much attention they are paying to it.
From what I could tell, most of the CSM (including me) have played through the tutorial recently and we all had comments about what worked and what didn't. There's a massive push not just with things like the Tutorial but also with the EVE website and such that are looking to help new players find the 'hook' that keeps them in. From what we saw and the reps that we talked to, retention is a very big deal for CCP, especially getting new players to stay. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Sellendis
The Ares project
32
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
@Seleene
Are there any info on CCP giving us the option to use some old stuff (like old font and so on) or are they gonna shove new things down our throats and call it a day. Since most of our complains and issues are mostly ignored in test server feedback. Now we have (for some) ugly font and a background so bright you cant read the letters. Is this a done thing, or is CCP gonna take a second look. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."
Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.
Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX with a "Designed by: Person X" logo with 5% of the ISK (or Aur, if it MUST exist) go back to the designer?
This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Written Word
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
167
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Nah, I'm pretty sure we made it clear what we think of Aurum and any future plans for it. It's impossible to say with any certainty what CCP will do about it but whatever it is, I don't think it will be more knee jerk stuff like we've seen in the past.
Its worrisome you used the words Convenience MTs as the name for that whole section, as that's something that hasn't been mentioned in the ongoing Aurum/MT debacle except in Fearless.
The less of Fearless we get in the ride forward, the better everybody would be. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
206
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 19:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."
Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.
Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX with a "Designed by: Person X" logo with 5% of the ISK (or Aur, if it MUST exist) go back to the designer?
This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least. ...and destructible.
This ^ All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
585
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 20:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Many thanks for the inside look.
If I may ask two questions, and I fully understand if the NDA precludes a clear answer.
1: What would be the difference (if any, other than name) between "micro-plex" and AURUM?
2: Was there any mention of the NeX store eventually being able to handle either selling BPC's, or instead being able to handle items other than AURUM for transactions (finished ships, materials, etc.)?
Thanks again! Revenge should not stop at the ship!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
102
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 21:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
From the plex part of the writeup:
"Incursions got a lot of attention, with respect to how players have quickly figured out how to min / max everything to do with them. Obviously there needs to be some tweaks made but this is one of those good problems to have because it shows how many people are actually using the feature."
Of course, people are using the feature that provides 2-4xs as much isk as any other high sec pve activity. The fact that incursions pay so disproportionately high *masks* whether they are in fact a good feature or not. Make any pve activity in high sec pay that much more than every other and there will be many people doing it. That doesn't mean that feature is any good.
The only way we can tell if incursions are really a good/fun feature is to put their payouts in line with other high sec activities. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
15
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Posted - 2011.12.22 21:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Seleene wrote:quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai said: Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?),
"You all" doesn't really mean CSM in this case. The Incarna roll-out was a disaster for several reasons, not the least of which was a single (ugly) CQ and graphics cards melting. When CCP can come up with a way to actually get several dozen (at least) avatars in a shared space together, they will probably re-visit the concept of Promenades or Establishments. Personally, I just want there to be some kind of game play element attached to WiS so it's not just a fashion show. When CCP has a plan for all that, and everything I've seen thus far indicates that they do not, then I'm sure we'll hear about it and maybe see more WiS content.
Some kind of official statement would be fine. There's been a thread ignored for almost 2 months and frankly I think the same as you: they may have the assets and tech stuff, but don't really know what to do with it. Asking the players is the way to go. What do players expect from WiS? There's more than the broken nullsec, broken FW, broken everything. And the sooner they start asking the sooner they can devote a few manpower to the WiS technical stuff while everybody else fixes everything fixable and so so we can get some new content.
Quote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO. We're all playing the same game. I honestly don't get this attitude at all unless you are just looking to pointless rage at alliance tags without any regard for the histories of the people on the CSM.
This attitude stems from banging my head against forum trolls for the last month. And also from the simple fact that none of you CSM lived in hisec since years ago, so maybe you can't experience first hand how devoid of gameplay/goals it is.
Quote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence". . Dude, stop trolling. :) There were pages and pages of fixes and changes in Crucible that applied to general game play and had nothing at all to do with whatever your game play style was.
I am not talking about shiny. I am talking about playing the game. After Crucible, i am allowed to do the following things i didn't did before:
Hisec content: none (well, ganker BCs to make miners' life even more miserable)
Solo content: none (well, POCOs so big corporations can quick out everyone else from PI -amazingly as CSM are all from big corporations -insert shrugging)
Casual FiS content: none (that's a long standing tradition since i entered the game three years ago)
Let's say you are a player who only got one hour to play EVE, who wants to have fun and is alone.
Now tell me what has done Crucible for you.
And what will CCP do for you while they fix all that nullsec multiplayer PvP stuff.
Exciting, huh?
Hope you can see where i stand... in a game based upon fukking other players, a place where it's diffcult to fuk players is gonna be empty unless you add rules and stuff so people can do other that fuk the neighbor.
Incursion could had been a good idea, if weren't that they had to come out with that bullshit about "only one gets the reward, everybody else lost their ships for nothing", so now incursions are ISK printers for a few and most people stay clear from them. Almost as succesful as moving Lvl5 to places where no sensible mission runner would fly his have-fun machine that costed him months of grinding. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2011.12.22 21:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Thank you, Seleene. Keep up the good work you and the other members of the CSM do for all of us. |
Yuki Crowfeet
EVE Information and Entertainment Service
51
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 21:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)? Personally I have no interest in paying real money for in-game fluff, but I have significant interest in CCP making more money to spend on the game and if they can get that for selling pixels that have no effect on the game then I'm all for it.
Also, has anyone considered running a massive player questionnaire to harvest the opinions of players en-masse? The 0.0 Investigation - My adventure through 0.0 discovering the pilots and talking to them about their experiences. In-game channel: EIES
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Flamespar
Woof Club
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 22:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Seleene
Was the future of WiS spoken of in any depth? It sounds like we won't be getting multiplayer establishments in the next year. And yet the massive reallocation of developers to all things EVE creates the impression that the man/woman power now exists that would allow CCP to do work on both FiS and WiS I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Micia
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
5
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Posted - 2011.12.22 22:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yuki Crowfeet wrote:Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)?
CCP makes money whenever anyone buys a plex - which can then be sold ingame for ISK.
If vanity items could be sold for ISK, the mechanic is already in place for people wanting to spend their RL cash on these. I have no idea what the whole Aurum mechanic was for.
Frontier: Prelude To Darkness - An animated scifi web-series, featuring me! Watch it :) ...and coming soon, play Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn. Also, with me. :) |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
668
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 22:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
I liked the part about new rookie ships.
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Liam Mirren
43
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Posted - 2011.12.22 23:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Hearing that CCP is back on the right track and is nurturing their DEVS rather than frustrating them, resulting in them putting in the effort to create well thought out content rather than just being coding cattle and doing "as told". It takes balls to look at yourself in the mirror and shout at the world that you've been an idiot, and then take the necessary steps to make good on that.
Just be careful with the "out with the old, just because", the old aesthetics and game vision is what got you here, dismissing them as old and redundant would be a mistake. Iterate on the things you have but always keep the old feel&goals in mind. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. |
Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden N E X O
14
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Posted - 2011.12.22 23:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback, was amazing to read your experiences in the top of the world with our entertainment providers. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1075
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Posted - 2011.12.22 23:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:This attitude stems from banging my head against forum trolls for the last month. And also from the simple fact that none of you CSM lived in hisec since years ago, so maybe you can't experience first hand how devoid of gameplay/goals it is. This is absolutely not true. Look beyond the two goons on the CSM.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Alain Kinsella
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 01:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Generally good stuff and much appreciate your efforts.
I still disagree with your notion on "vanity" content for microtransactions though and strongly believe that ship-skins and such things should be a player industry (lp function) rather than delivered through some nonsense like the NeX store. If they could come up with something like that which worked well, I would wholeheartedly endorse it. I'm not beholden to a particular way of doing this at all.
There.com had a tool that allowed you to 'paint' their allowed 3D models for vehicles (and had similar for the various clothing types). It included preview for the item under the three LOD levels available, and in the case for clothing, a basic pre-screen for PG rating (neckline etc).
The finished re-skin would be uploaded for approval, and if OK'd you would get one copy plus the ability to sell more of them on their in-world shopping site (you could set the price, so long as it was at or above their stock item costs).
I was going to add that Hilmar could poke their CEO for discussion, but it appears There is no longer offline. It *is* marked as 18+ though, which was the condition given for a re-release.
EDIT - I could go into more detail about both this and SL's methods (and to a lesser degree, Uru), but don't want to drag too deeply into tech stuff for this. You're welcome to eve-mail me to discuss; I'll supply a RL email if really interested. I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
70
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Posted - 2011.12.23 06:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Chribba wrote:Good writeup, thanks!
Looking forward to the coming devblogs.
/c How do you always get first post? HOW? Are you a wizard?
The ways of the Lord of the Holy Veldspar are not for us mortals to know
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
70
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 06:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Oh, and:
Seleene?
LowSec?
Fixes/expansions of content/iteration of existing content we can haz soon, not Soon(TM) plz? Kthxbai. I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
140
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Posted - 2011.12.23 06:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Thanks for the write up, I had a really good time reading it. Gives me hope for EVE GÖÑ!
Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
345
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Posted - 2011.12.27 14:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Holidays kept me off the forums. Back to work...
Sellendis wrote:Seleene
Are there any info on CCP giving us the option to use some old stuff (like old font and so on) or are they gonna shove new things down our throats and call it a day.
Since most of our complains and issues are mostly ignored in test server feedback. Now we have (for some) ugly font and a background so bright you cant read the letters. Is this a done thing, or is CCP gonna take a second look.
The font is a done deal AFAIK. No going back. This is also the third major font revision in eight years, I believe.
As for the bright background, YES, that specifically did come up. They are aware of it and are going to continue tweaking. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
345
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Posted - 2011.12.27 14:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."
Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.
Destructible or not, the prices were always one of the sticking points with me. There is next to nothing to buy there in the first place and then it costs more than RL clothing? I wrote about this shortly after Incarna's release:
MegaTransactions & Incarna 1.0
Burseg Sardaukar wrote: Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX?
This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least.
That's what I think a lot of people would refer to as The Dream, or a least a variation thereof. Yes, it would be difficult to wrap all of that up but not impossible. At the least, the idea of Alliance / Corp uniforms is an obvious and 'simple' first step in going forward. However, right now I don't think we'll see much progress on this issue. CCP has learned in a very hard way that FIRE BURNS and they will only get one more shot at trying to 'introduce' Space Doll Fashion to us again. Hopefully they will take their time with it and get it (and the prices) right.
Written Word wrote:Its worrisome you used the words Convenience MTs as the name for that whole section, as that's something that hasn't been mentioned in the ongoing Aurum/MT debacle except in Fearless.
The less of Fearless we get in the ride forward, the better everybody would be.
Hey, that was just the name of the session. Convenience / vanity / fluff, it's all the same thing really - useless pretty ****. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
345
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Posted - 2011.12.27 14:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Many thanks for the inside look.
If I may ask two questions, and I fully understand if the NDA precludes a clear answer.
1: What would be the difference (if any, other than name) between "micro-plex" and AURUM?
Bear in mind, this is just my perception as a player but AUR is, and always was, an extra unnecessary layer added to an already complex economic system. To me, the difference is making things easier by using 'currency' we are already familiar with. There are more complex and complete answers to your question, but my stance on this is pretty simple.
Ranger 1 wrote:2: Was there any mention of the NeX store eventually being able to handle either selling BPC's, or instead being able to handle items other than AURUM for transactions (finished ships, materials, etc.)?
Yes, there was talk.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
345
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Posted - 2011.12.27 14:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yuki Crowfeet wrote:Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)? Personally I have no interest in paying real money for in-game fluff, but I have significant interest in CCP making more money to spend on the game and if they can get that for selling pixels that have no effect on the game then I'm all for it.
First answer is, sure, I'd love to see player produced fluff, but that's so far in the future that it's barely even worth discussing at this point.
Right now what I'd like to do is eliminate the nonsense that is ~Aurum~ and use the system we already have. CCP already has a brilliant money making scheme with PLEX and it's corporate profitability is largely invisible to most space billionaires. I've never spent one cent of Aurum because 1.) the NEX prices are ******** and 2.) the entire MT side of EVE is pants on head ********. That being said, I've got a stack of PLEX that I'd think nothing of breaking down into smaller units to purchase sensibly priced vanity items (Flames on my Rifters!!). I mean, I bought my PLEX with ISK so it's not 'real money', right?
It's absurdly psychological, but it is what it is. At some point along the line, CCP makes money when people buy PLEX. By braking PLEX down into smaller units, there are all kinds of possibilities from letting them be used for vanity purchases to even allowing you to extend your game play time for a week instead of a month. I've never had an issue with CCP making extra money by doing cool stuff, so long as the cool stuff provides exactly ZERO game mechanic advantage.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
345
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Posted - 2011.12.27 14:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Seleene
Was the future of WiS spoken of in any depth? It sounds like we won't be getting multiplayer establishments in the next year. And yet the massive reallocation of developers to all things EVE creates the impression that the man/woman power now exists that would allow CCP to do work on both FiS and WiS
Was it spoken of 'in depth'? Not really, at least not in the official sessions. After hours, 'Incarna' came up quite a lot. I think most of the CSM sees the whole mess as a combination of missed opportunity and just classic mus-understanding of what their player base expected. We expected "more" and we expected "better".
I couldn't say with any certainty when we will see 'Establishments' because the same issues that prevented their roll out still exist. For example:
Technical - can has more than 3 Incarna avatars in a room without video card melting?
Gameplay - can has ANY kind of EVE-related game play?
Tie-in to FiS - There needs to be a solid 'link' between 1 & 2 for a large portion of EVE players to buy into it.
All of these questions (and more) need to be answered and resolved. Until they are, I doubt we'll see Establishments or anything else soon.
In terms of available resources, they do have people working on it, but I couldn't tell you much more than that right now.
Nova Fox wrote:I liked the part about new rookie ships.
Me too! Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Prince Kobol
112
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Posted - 2011.12.27 15:15:00 -
[59] - Quote
Any news on tackling Botting / RMT or perhaps at the very least could could a DEV respond in one of the many posts regarding the subject.
Or is the subject just a complete no go area as there are no bots, there is no RMT
|
Liam Mirren
55
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 15:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thanks for your continued effort in this Seleene, don't ever stop. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. |
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Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
97
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Posted - 2011.12.27 15:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Quote:CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves.
Please talk to him about the tier system. This would be the perfect time for CCP to remove that ancient artifact from the game. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2011.12.27 16:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
too many words for the eve community i am afraid. tldr |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
380
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 09:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Any news on tackling Botting / RMT or perhaps at the very least could could a DEV respond in one of the many posts regarding the subject. Or is the subject just a complete no go area as there are no bots, there is no RMT
Bots were covered in our session with ~Security~ but we can't really talk much about this until the minutes come out.
Max Von Sydow wrote:Quote:CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves. Please talk to him about the tier system. This would be the perfect time for CCP to remove that ancient artifact from the game.
Are you talking about Tier 1 / 2 / 3 ships or what?
Dbars Grinding wrote:too many words for the eve community i am afraid. tldr
It was a three day long summit about spaceships. There's not really a way to TLDR it. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
169
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
So any word on the minutes from this thing? Needs gory details. Even with all the NDA**NDA**NDA black bars that are going to be blocking out anything too juicy, they usually contain plenty of interesting tidbits.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
380
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:So any word on the minutes from this thing? Needs gory details. Even with all the NDA**NDA**NDA black bars that are going to be blocking out anything too juicy, they usually contain plenty of interesting tidbits.
They are being written now with an eye to get them out ASAP. I'd guesstimate that they will almost certainly be done before the end of the month, at least that's the desire. Unlike the emergency summer minutes, there doesn't appear to be much effort to water down the info and, aside from a few specific things getting 'black bars', should make for very good reading. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Prince Kobol
154
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Any news on tackling Botting / RMT or perhaps at the very least could could a DEV respond in one of the many posts regarding the subject. Or is the subject just a complete no go area as there are no bots, there is no RMT Bots were covered in our session with ~Security~ but we can't really talk much about this until the minutes come out.
As in how the null sec alliances can use them and avoid being banned and that they now have to give CCP a bigger share of their RMT gains.. |
Prince Kobol
154
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
sorry about my last post.. couldn't resist |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
340
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
Excellent write-up on the discussions and plans. Pity about the NDA but hey, this is way better than nothing, thank you! I only wish that those who keep beying for the removal of the CSM had the wit to read such feedback and appreciate that the CSM actually contribute a lot to Eve.
Thank you, Seleene o/ The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
461
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Seleene wrote:Chribba wrote:Good writeup, thanks!
Looking forward to the coming devblogs.
/c How do you always get first post? HOW? Are you a wizard? Rumor has it that I simply have no life, no job and a scripted refresh button
Arr, he's not a man he's a machine.
I am curious about the coming dev blogs about that are hinted at in the summuary and the notes of the CSM.
I do agree with Jade though that it is time to rethink the whole Aurum/Nex store/Incarna integration and make it so that the promised fullness of eve (eventually) can grow into the area of ambulation. There are many options but simply letting it sit there blocking other promising paths that ambulation can take and enhance the sandbox that is eve with more immersive gameplay isn't one they should entertain. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Karl Planck
Heretic Academy
103
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 12:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
I wonder what the hold up is with the minutes. |
|
J Kunjeh
309
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:53:00 -
[71] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:I wonder what the hold up is with the minutes.
I agree...sorry, but minutes should not take this long to get out after the meetings. I guess we can expect them to land in about 3 months, when they're about useless, just like the last ones. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
137
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote:Karl Planck wrote:I wonder what the hold up is with the minutes. I agree...sorry, but minutes should not take this long to get out after the meetings. I guess we can expect them to land in about 3 months, when they're about useless, just like the last ones.
Because the CCP marketing and PR machine has to spin-doctor them to appeal to the widest possible audience before release, and redact anything that can be used against CCP as a "promise to deliver" feature x, y, or z, or anything that would grant certain players an advantage via prior knowledge of a significant change..
That takes time.
/yes, most of you will probably be underwhelmed. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
We only need the Mittani. One man to rule them all. Not a veteran, just bitter.. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
121
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote:Karl Planck wrote:I wonder what the hold up is with the minutes. I agree...sorry, but minutes should not take this long to get out after the meetings. I guess we can expect them to land in about 3 months, when they're about useless, just like the last ones.
I don't know where you work, but most companies get the week after Christmas off. They've probably only been in the office for 2 days since the 23rd. |
mkint
604
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:So any word on the minutes from this thing? Needs gory details. Even with all the NDA**NDA**NDA black bars that are going to be blocking out anything too juicy, they usually contain plenty of interesting tidbits.
They are being written now with an eye to get them out ASAP. I'd guesstimate that they will almost certainly be done before the end of the month, at least that's the desire. Unlike the emergency summer minutes, there doesn't appear to be much effort to water down the info and, aside from a few specific things getting 'black bars', should make for very good reading. You know, I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think I'd prefer redacting as opposed to the spin we usually get. wtb minutes with black bars (as opposed to minutes that are 3 paragraphs long) |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 17:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
Seleene wrote: Was it spoken of 'in depth'? Not really, at least not in the official sessions. After hours, 'Incarna' came up quite a lot. I think most of the CSM sees the whole mess as a combination of missed opportunity and just classic mus-understanding of what their player base expected. We expected "more" and we expected "better".
I couldn't say with any certainty when we will see 'Establishments' because the same issues that prevented their roll out still exist. For example:
Technical - can has more than 3 Incarna avatars in a room without video card melting?
Gameplay - can has ANY kind of EVE-related game play?
Tie-in to FiS - There needs to be a solid 'link' between 1 & 2 for a large portion of EVE players to buy into it.
All of these questions (and more) need to be answered and resolved. Until they are, I doubt we'll see Establishments or anything else soon.
In terms of available resources, they do have people working on it, but I couldn't tell you much more than that right now.
Seleene, how long was WIS in developmental 4 year? maybe more?! We were shown/told multiple things about what WIS would include and we didn't get any of that in incarna...
Where is the face to face drug trading? That's your FIS link, right there!
Who asked that WIS was so graphically intensive that it melts graphics card? I think most people were exited about the gambling and a new level on interaction with player. you don't need amazing graphics for that.
I'm pretty disgusted how CCP don't think we deserve an official update on the future of incarna and it's even a bigger slap in the face that the CSM didn't see fit to raise the issue of WIS on behalf of the EVE community that want this feature. |
|
CCP Xhagen
C C P
151
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 17:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Being the guy responsible for the minutes (and the current delay - for that I apologize) I'd like to grab the opportunity to describe what is involved in creating the minutes.
Writing up the minutes, i.e. from audio to text, is done both by me and the CSM (we split the sessions between us). Before the text is sent anywhere beyond that group (of me and the CSM) the CSM reads it over and approves what I have written up and I in turn theirs. Only then the text is forwarded to the people who sat the meetings on behalf of CCP. They then have to approve the text, or if they make some content changes to it I forward it back to the CSM for approval.
I try to make sure that the minutes are as honest as possible, describing the conversation going on in the meeting room while being easy to read in terms of flow and style.
I'll be the first to admit that this is most likely not the easiest way to do things and there have been suggestions of having a professional stenographer doing this work, and while I haven't tried that approach I suspect that many of the more EVE specific things would simply be lost once that will be turned into actual minutes by such a person (as the meetings are very informal and jumping to and from topics happens regularly - making the raw transcript a very unpleasant reading material) - it would probably mean just as much work for me and the CSM to do properly (again, I haven't tested this so I cannot state this as a fact).
And the number of people having to read over and approve the minutes will not be reduced by that approach.
The current status is that little less than half of the minutes has been written up and approved, while the rest is still being worked on. But with the holidays over I expect the speed to pick up and I and fully expect them to come out the door before (or perhaps on) Friday the 13th. CCP Xhagen | CSM Project Manager |
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 17:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
Friday the 13th
OH GOD IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
254
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 18:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the EVE player base. You all have collectively brought a positive change to the game and got CCP back on take despite the utter failure of the CSM.
Although they may continue to take the credit, it was the players and players alone who made the difference. All of you you forced CCP to take notice and look past the absurd recommendations of a select few, many of which were "elected" through a flawed system that was easily exploited. To the players, well done. Without you we would not be where we are today, and neither would EVE Online. You undid the downward spiral, and even though the CSM now take credit for your/our cause, we will allow them to continue to blow hot air as they always have. We the player base have spoken.
The CSM can continue to float, sputter and "talk" like they always have.
Now, lets read my SIG. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
ShadowMaster
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 18:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Xhagen wrote:Being the guy responsible for the minutes (and the current delay - for that I apologize) I'd like to grab the opportunity to describe what is involved in creating the minutes.
Writing up the minutes, i.e. from audio to text, is done both by me and the CSM (we split the sessions between us). Before the text is sent anywhere beyond that group (of me and the CSM) the CSM reads it over and approves what I have written up and I in turn theirs. Only then the text is forwarded to the people who sat the meetings on behalf of CCP. They then have to approve the text, or if they make some content changes to it I forward it back to the CSM for approval.
I try to make sure that the minutes are as honest as possible, describing the conversation going on in the meeting room while being easy to read in terms of flow and style.
I'll be the first to admit that this is most likely not the easiest way to do things and there have been suggestions of having a professional stenographer doing this work, and while I haven't tried that approach I suspect that many of the more EVE specific things would simply be lost once that will be turned into actual minutes by such a person (as the meetings are very informal and jumping to and from topics happens regularly - making the raw transcript a very unpleasant reading material) - it would probably mean just as much work for me and the CSM to do properly (again, I haven't tested this so I cannot state this as a fact).
And the number of people having to read over and approve the minutes will not be reduced by that approach.
The current status is that little less than half of the minutes has been written up and approved, while the rest is still being worked on. But with the holidays over I expect the speed to pick up and I and fully expect them to come out the door before (or perhaps on) Friday the 13th.
Thanks for the update. :) |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1405
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 18:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
CSM6: The Most Effective CSM ever The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
341
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 18:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:CSM6: The Most Effective CSM ever
Not empty quoting. It's time the haters took their collective heads out of their nether-regions and saw the facts and not allow their obvious hatred of goons to cloud their judgement.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2552
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 18:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I would like to take this opportunity to thank the EVE player base. You all have collectively brought a positive change to the game and got CCP back on take despite the utter failure of the CSM.
Although they may continue to take the credit, it was the players and players alone who made the difference. All of you you forced CCP to take notice and look past the absurd recommendations of a select few, many of which were "elected" through a flawed system that was easily exploited. To the players, well done. Without you we would not be where we are today, and neither would EVE Online. You undid the downward spiral, and even though the CSM now take credit for your/our cause, we will allow them to continue to blow hot air as they always have. We the player base have spoken.
The CSM can continue to float, sputter and "talk" like they always have.
Now, lets read my SIG.
I don't normally do this, but sometimes it's just the right thing to do:
Mmmm delicious bitter tears!
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
277
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Seleene wrote: Was it spoken of 'in depth'? Not really, at least not in the official sessions. After hours, 'Incarna' came up quite a lot. I think most of the CSM sees the whole mess as a combination of missed opportunity and just classic mus-understanding of what their player base expected. We expected "more" and we expected "better".
I couldn't say with any certainty when we will see 'Establishments' because the same issues that prevented their roll out still exist. For example:
Technical - can has more than 3 Incarna avatars in a room without video card melting?
Gameplay - can has ANY kind of EVE-related game play?
Tie-in to FiS - There needs to be a solid 'link' between 1 & 2 for a large portion of EVE players to buy into it.
All of these questions (and more) need to be answered and resolved. Until they are, I doubt we'll see Establishments or anything else soon.
In terms of available resources, they do have people working on it, but I couldn't tell you much more than that right now.
Seleene, how long was WIS in developmental 4 year? maybe more?! We were shown/told multiple things about what WIS would include and we didn't get any of that in incarna... Where is the face to face drug trading? That's your FIS link, right there! Who asked that WIS was so graphically intensive that it melts graphics card? I think most people were exited about the gambling and a new level on interaction with player. you don't need amazing graphics for that. I'm pretty disgusted how CCP don't think we deserve an official update on the future of incarna and it's even a bigger slap in the face that the CSM didn't see fit to raise the issue of WIS on behalf of the EVE community that want this feature.
Wis development is stopped thanks to the goon CSM So asking Seleene something about WIS has no use And CSM6 is not for the EVE community at all ,only for a small part it
We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
254
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote:Ladie Harlot Malcanis
Fanboys will be fanboys
Don't change the fact however... so... yea Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:Ladie Harlot Malcanis Fanboys will be fanboys Don't change the fact however... so... yea and haters gonna hate
Not a veteran, just bitter.. |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
254
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
TuonelanOrja wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:Ladie Harlot Malcanis Fanboys will be fanboys Don't change the fact however... so... yea and haters gonna hate
Ah... the goon hate card. CSM was crap long before goons were in it. So I don't see how that counter argument is a counter argument at all. It sure seems copy/pasted enough though... Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
174
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:43:00 -
[88] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:TuonelanOrja wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:Ladie Harlot Malcanis Fanboys will be fanboys Don't change the fact however... so... yea and haters gonna hate Ah... the goon hate card. CSM was crap long before goons were in it. So I don't see how that counter argument is a counter argument at all. It sure seems copy/pasted enough though... Yes it was crap before, but thanks to Mittani, we finally see some results..
Not a veteran, just bitter.. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
429
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: And CSM6 is not for the EVE community at all ,only for a small part it
yeah, the part that voted. Same as in any other "democratic" political situation.
Too bad my candidate didn't get through last year |
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
174
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: And CSM6 is not for the EVE community at all ,only for a small part it
yeah, the part that voted. Same as in any other "democratic" political situation. Too bad my candidate didn't get through last year Good dictatorship is far better than bad democracy.
Not a veteran, just bitter.. |
|
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
200
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:49:00 -
[91] - Quote
Do you think you could release the minutes before friday the 13th, where I am from that is a bad time and my place I live is on a ancient indian burial ground. I would like to read them before its too late. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
256
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
TuonelanOrja wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:TuonelanOrja wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Quote:Ladie Harlot Malcanis Fanboys will be fanboys Don't change the fact however... so... yea and haters gonna hate Ah... the goon hate card. CSM was crap long before goons were in it. So I don't see how that counter argument is a counter argument at all. It sure seems copy/pasted enough though... Yes it was crap before, but thanks to Mittani, we finally see some results..
Come on...you can troll better then that? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1406
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Wis development is stopped thanks to the goon CSM
The fact that thousands of people were canceling their accounts had more to do with CCP switching focus from WiS to FiS than anything the CSM said.
Also, in case you aren't aware, there are only two goons on the CSM so to call it a "goon CSM" is incorrect.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1406
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:TuonelanOrja wrote: Yes it was crap before, but thanks to Mittani, we finally see some results..
Come on...you can troll better then that? Doesn't sound like a troll. The CSMs before CSM6 were all pretty ineffectual.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
257
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:TuonelanOrja wrote: Yes it was crap before, but thanks to Mittani, we finally see some results..
Come on...you can troll better then that? Doesn't sound like a troll. The CSMs before CSM6 were all pretty ineffectual.
I don't like it when 1 or 2 people take credit for the collective actions of a multitude of people working together. But that's just me. Maybe you like that sort of thing? Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1406
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:49:00 -
[96] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't like it when 1 or 2 people take credit for the collective actions of a multitude of people working together. But that's just me. Maybe you like that sort of thing? There's more than one or two people on the CSM. They also aren't taking the credit...we, the grateful players of Eve, are giving it to them.
Try looking past your obvious hatred of Goons and look objectively at the state of the game now compared to the state of the game over the summer.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
258
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:03:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't like it when 1 or 2 people take credit for the collective actions of a multitude of people working together. But that's just me. Maybe you like that sort of thing? There's more than one or two people on the CSM. They also aren't taking the credit...we, the grateful players of Eve, are giving it to them. Try looking past your obvious hatred of Goons and look objectively at the state of the game now compared to the state of the game over the summer.
As far as word games go, and taking things out of context for purely self serving reasons, this is not your best work TBH. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Avid Bumhumper
Furian Necromongers
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:07:00 -
[98] - Quote
Do people really take this game that seriously?
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:19:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't like it when 1 or 2 people take credit for the collective actions of a multitude of people working together. But that's just me. Maybe you like that sort of thing? There's more than one or two people on the CSM. They also aren't taking the credit...we, the grateful players of Eve, are giving it to them. Try looking past your obvious hatred of Goons and look objectively at the state of the game now compared to the state of the game over the summer.
Speak for yourself pls
i don,t hate the goons
i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Velicitia
Open Designs
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:44:00 -
[100] - Quote
TuonelanOrja wrote:Velicitia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: And CSM6 is not for the EVE community at all ,only for a small part it
yeah, the part that voted. Same as in any other "democratic" political situation. Too bad my candidate didn't get through last year Good dictatorship is far better than bad democracy.
so then we don't vote for the CSM and ... what? only players who've played since 03/04 get a shot at it? or we do away with them entirely, and get more $1000 jeans and T20? |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:TuonelanOrja wrote:Velicitia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: And CSM6 is not for the EVE community at all ,only for a small part it
yeah, the part that voted. Same as in any other "democratic" political situation. Too bad my candidate didn't get through last year Good dictatorship is far better than bad democracy. so then we don't vote for the CSM and ... what? only players who've played since 03/04 get a shot at it? or we do away with them entirely, and get more $1000 jeans and T20?
well the forums are if troll-filtered a way better tool for CCP then a few players that think they know it all We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1407
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 Right because what high-sec players are crying out for is more microtransactions (which is what WiS means to CCP).
If you can't see beyond your hatred of Goons (or all of nullsec in your case) to see how the game as a whole is better when CCP focuses on actual Eve content then there's nothing I can say that will convince you. You have gone beyond things like logic and common sense and are living in a world of anger and bad posting.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 Right because what high-sec players are crying out for is more microtransactions (which is what WiS means to CCP). If you can't see beyond your hatred of Goons (or all of nullsec in your case) to see how the game as a whole is better when CCP focuses on actual Eve content then there's nothing I can say that will convince you. You have gone beyond things like logic and common sense and are living in a world of anger and bad posting.
lost it where you say i was screaming for MT ,still searching for it lost it were you say i hate the goons,hmmmmm searching
searching now for your logic ,hmmmmmmmmmm man i have to search the old archives
edit : about bad poster ,you are probably right We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1407
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:about bad poster ,you are probably right
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4278
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 That's anGǪ interesting non sequitur. Why would they be focused on FiS just because it benefits 0.0? Why would focusing on FiS only benefit 0.0?
You don't think their being focused on it might have something to do with them recently proving to themselves that not focusing on it was very bad for their wallets? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 That's anGǪ interesting non sequitur. Why would they be focused on FiS just because it benefits 0.0? Why would focusing on FiS only benefit 0.0? You don't think their being focused on it might have something to do with them recently proving to themselves that not focusing on it was very bad for their wallets?
yeah i know my english isn,t very good
Focus on fis is there,good thing but doing a lot in favour for only 0.0 is not
We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1407
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Focus on fis is there,good thing but doing a lot in favour for only 0.0 is not
Luckily for everybody they aren't only favoring 0.0. Thinking that they are is just silly. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4278
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:36:00 -
[108] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Focus on fis is there,good thing but doing a lot in favour for only 0.0 is not Good thing they're not particularly doing that, then.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Focus on fis is there,good thing but doing a lot in favour for only 0.0 is not
Luckily for everybody they aren't only favoring 0.0. Thinking that they are is just silly.
Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0
We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4278
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 22:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0 Good thing they're not doing that then.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
281
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 23:01:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0 Good thing they're not doing that then.
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said. we will see what will happen ,the comming 6 months
We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1411
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 02:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.
I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
SPYDERWOLF
The Black Pigs The Black Pigs Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 02:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
Thanks Seleene nice write up and as a bitter vet it will be nice to see that reinstating my account hopefully doesnt go to waste |
Urich Fiano
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 04:36:00 -
[114] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0 Good thing they're not doing that then. If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said. we will see what will happen ,the comming 6 months So let me get this straight. Your fountain of bitterness and whining isn't because of anything the CSM has actually said or done, but because of something you suspect they might do at some unspecified point in the future, even though there's never been anything to suggest it's something the CSM is set on doing. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1411
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 04:40:00 -
[115] - Quote
Urich Fiano wrote:So let me get this straight. Your fountain of bitterness and whining isn't because of anything the CSM has actually said or done, but because of something you suspect they might do at some unspecified point in the future, even though there's never been anything to suggest it's something the CSM is set on doing. Welcome to the wonderful world of CSM haters. Their numbers are small but they make up for it in enthusiasm.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2552
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i hate the fact that everybody is thinking that CCP is only FIS focused . They are FIS focused ,as long it benefits only 0.0 That's anGǪ interesting non sequitur. Why would they be focused on FiS just because it benefits 0.0? Why would focusing on FiS only benefit 0.0? You don't think their being focused on it might have something to do with them recently proving to themselves that not focusing on it was very bad for their wallets? yeah i know my english isn,t very good Focus on fis is there,good thing but doing a lot in favour for only 0.0 is not
Can you give an actual example of the CSM6 doing or proposing something to harm hi-sec in favour of 0.0?
Use links in your reply.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1413
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:13:00 -
[117] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Can you give an actual example of the CSM6 doing or proposing something to harm hi-sec in favour of 0.0?
Use links in your reply.
I've asked for this in countless threads. I've never received an answer...maybe you'll have more success.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0 Good thing they're not doing that then. If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said. we will see what will happen ,the comming 6 months
Well, CCP's already nerfed Hisec.
Sanctum Nerf Jump Bridge Nerf Drone Hub Bugfix Super Capital Nerf (Not saying it was bad, just saying who it affected) Incursions (Think about where they're actually being completed)
.... wait, my mistake, I meant Nullsec there. What a funny typo. |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
257
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
You must be really kidding all of you CSM members You did nothing nothing at all for the community because of voting manipulation you only represent less than 5% of the actually players and you only working for your own good , you don't care about the rest of the players game experience or about the game I used to trust you guys but after last summer and this expansion personally i thinkj you all a bunch of wankers and wannabees who can't even organize a drink in a brewery you people could have told ccp that several of the changes would have this and that results you didn't , some of your members belong to a alliance that tells it members not to report bots and macro s and so encourage yje use of macro 's and RMT
Shame on you all I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
284
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:37:00 -
[120] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Tippia wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Removing ways to make isk from WH-space and highsec ,is very much in favor of 0.0 Good thing they're not doing that then. If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said. we will see what will happen ,the comming 6 months Well, CCP's already nerfed Hisec. Sanctum Nerf Jump Bridge Nerf Drone Hub Bugfix Super Capital Nerf (Not saying it was bad, just saying who it affected) Incursions (Think about where they're actually being completed) .... wait, my mistake, I meant Nullsec there. What a funny typo.
don,t think hiseccers were screaming for changes you mention. So 0.0 residents wanted those things to be nerfed,or CCP did something nobody wanted
We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
|
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:47:00 -
[121] - Quote
Just remove highsec incursions and we are fine. Not a veteran, just bitter.. |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
123
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:55:00 -
[122] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.
Yea playing simon says with a group of 200 pilots at slideshow speed is really challenging. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
465
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 10:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
If the UI honestly got reworked *wtf where is the neo neocom!* I think that would be badass.
As long as CCP realize they can't keep the current WiS thing forever this simple. it's a huge stain on the game to have such a HUGE graphics engine, and character creation, and THATS IT. it makes the game look bad at this point to not take wiS at least a tiny amount farther.
like. put the board game into people rooms, and then, let us visit each others rooms.
DONE you can ignore for a year without confusing the new players that come to eve with this weird simple room. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
287
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 10:23:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.
So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ? We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
926
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:33:00 -
[125] - Quote
Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.
Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program
Most online games have some sort of initiative to reward long time players for forking over their money every month for long periods of time. This discussion was not only about what kind of 'rewards' might be offered but also how to continue increasing information flow to players so they don't rage quit over things like the Retribution still only having one mid-slot.
First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..
Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space.
Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources
There was quite a bit discussed here but the #1 request the CSM made is that we want to blow up stations. Destructible Outposts are going to be absolutely key to any kind of sov revamp. In the past, for Dominion, the idea was to have wreckable stations that you would be able to repair. Progress on several fronts has apparently made it possible to completely destroy player built outposts. 'Possibly' does not mean with 100% certainty that it will happen, but it's looking more likely than ever before. Obviously the mechanics of what to do with people's stuff need to be worked out but I feel like CCP is now on-board with the fact that big explosions are good things.
Another big topic in this session was how NPC stations in 0.0 affect null sec warfare. Looking at ways to put more control in the hands of the players is something else CCP Soundwave and his team will be looking at this next year.
The old 'Farms & Fields' topic came up again, along with moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes. There is a lot to do here but for the first time in years CCP seems to have the resources and the mindset to actually tackle and resolve many of the old issues that continue to plague us all.
Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?
NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.
Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all..
Game Balance
Another issue the CSM brought up was something close to my own heart - for characters that have been in supercaps for the past few years (Seleene has been in a Nyx since late 2006), pretty much everyone has maxed their drone skills. With the complete removal of the ability to use drones in supers, this renders several million skill points worth of training completely obsolete.
Well, that is indeed a shame. What exactly are you guys fishing for, re-allocation of skill points? Have the Drone bay replaced? Suck it up and learn to deal with the changes. Everyone gets hit unfavorably from time to time by changes to the game.
Art - Eye Candy
First off, one of the things that CSM 6 bitched about early on was the horrible rookie ships that everyone starts with. This is your introduction to the game and you are forced to fly something that looks pretty ghetto. Well, that's being solved as we were shown the concept art and nearly complete renderings of all four new Rookie ship skins that will be going into EVE "soon". The new Reaper, in particular, looked amazing and makes me wonder how scary the Rifter will look if / when they get around to tweaking it as well. So, yet another example of how the CSM has no power. :)
Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law.
What I see here is CSM again not representing the majority of the playerbase.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1417
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:because of voting manipulation you only represent less than 5% Can you expand on this? I'm in the mood for some more hilarious conspiracy theories regarding the CSM.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1417
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:42:00 -
[127] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology. So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ? Yep.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology. So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ? Yep.
Yep. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
289
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:45:00 -
[129] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology. So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ? Yep.
as i thought you would say. what a shame ,you put yourself above others. that,s makes you a person,to feel sorry for We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: that,s makes you a person,to feel sorry for
Having other people feel sorry for me is much better than feeling sorry for myself. I'm outsourcing. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2553
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:37:00 -
[131] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.
Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
So from a position of knowing nothing about exactly what was discussed, you conclude that the agenda exactly matched your assumptions?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2553
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.
Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there. I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology. So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?
Maybe your parents should be the ones to tell you this, but Santa isn't real.
Oh, and you're incredibly easily trolled.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:41:00 -
[133] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory. |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 20:21:00 -
[134] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.
All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term.
Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families.
If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1141
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 20:32:00 -
[135] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory. All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term. Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families. If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later.
That's easily manipulated by people who's families are dead or who wish their families were dead. Thus they can refuse to commit suicide with impunity.
NEXT!
Side Note: Your idea also eliminates the possibility of a well educated government, and due to ill-defined phrasing would result in the death of the entire Electorate every time.
(FWI, I was not including voter Fraud in the category of manipulation) |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
210
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 20:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:Quote:CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves. Please talk to him about the tier system. This would be the perfect time for CCP to remove that ancient artifact from the game. Are you talking about Tier 1 / 2 / 3 ships or what?
Since nobody else has jumped on this yet I'll clarify - the existing hull tiering system serves to make certain shiptypes 'worthless by design' because the higher tier version outperforms it across the board, the tiering system affects more or less everything down to hit points and module slots and shield/armour/structure HP. It doesn't apply in every case - tier 1 battleships are pretty decent because they have distinct niches that mostly make them worth fielding in particular roles, but the worst offenders come in the frigate and battlecruiser range where some lower tier hulls are pre-crippled to the point that there's effectively no role for them to serve not already covered by their big brother. A Cyclone is just a Bad Hurricane, a Slasher is just a Bad Rifter, because they're designed for more or less the same role whilst the limitations of the lower tier mean it can't hope to compete.
Fixing the tiering system (either by eliminating it so all ships effectively become tier 1 with statlines to match, or amending it so different tiers can signify Useful Role X vs Useful Role Y rather than Terrible Ship X vs Useful Ship Y) so that there's a reason to use those hulls currently pre-crippled by their lowly tier would be a welcome change. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 21:08:00 -
[137] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory. All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term. Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families. If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later. That's easily manipulated by people who's families are dead or who wish their families were dead. Thus they can refuse to commit suicide with impunity. NEXT! Side Note: Your idea also eliminates the possibility of a well educated government, and due to ill-defined phrasing would result in the death of the entire Electorate every time. (FWI, I was not including voter Fraud in the category of manipulation)
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary. |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 21:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
Well, that was sad. Sounds like a lot of stroking went on, drinks were had but little was actually done. Destructable stations? That's all you could come up with? Is it because that's all the CSM knows how to do(pew-pew!)? Blown up or captured, there is little difference. Frankly, reading this makes the CSM sound like they, like CCP, don't play EVE. What a waste of potential from what the CSM could have been.
Still, CCP got a bunch of buzz out of not changing their motto of new shiny items over content. Credit given for addressing some of the small problems though. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1142
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 21:28:00 -
[139] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course).
If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system.
And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems.
Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system
Read up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs) |
Eternum Praetorian
Club Bear
291
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:36:00 -
[140] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.
Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program
Most online games have some sort of initiative to reward long time players for forking over their money every month for long periods of time. This discussion was not only about what kind of 'rewards' might be offered but also how to continue increasing information flow to players so they don't rage quit over things like the Retribution still only having one mid-slot.
First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..
Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space.
Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources
There was quite a bit discussed here but the #1 request the CSM made is that we want to blow up stations. Destructible Outposts are going to be absolutely key to any kind of sov revamp. In the past, for Dominion, the idea was to have wreckable stations that you would be able to repair. Progress on several fronts has apparently made it possible to completely destroy player built outposts. 'Possibly' does not mean with 100% certainty that it will happen, but it's looking more likely than ever before. Obviously the mechanics of what to do with people's stuff need to be worked out but I feel like CCP is now on-board with the fact that big explosions are good things.
Another big topic in this session was how NPC stations in 0.0 affect null sec warfare. Looking at ways to put more control in the hands of the players is something else CCP Soundwave and his team will be looking at this next year.
The old 'Farms & Fields' topic came up again, along with moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes. There is a lot to do here but for the first time in years CCP seems to have the resources and the mindset to actually tackle and resolve many of the old issues that continue to plague us all.
Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?
NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.
Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all..
Game Balance
Another issue the CSM brought up was something close to my own heart - for characters that have been in supercaps for the past few years (Seleene has been in a Nyx since late 2006), pretty much everyone has maxed their drone skills. With the complete removal of the ability to use drones in supers, this renders several million skill points worth of training completely obsolete.
Well, that is indeed a shame. What exactly are you guys fishing for, re-allocation of skill points? Have the Drone bay replaced? Suck it up and learn to deal with the changes. Everyone gets hit unfavorably from time to time by changes to the game.
Art - Eye Candy
First off, one of the things that CSM 6 bitched about early on was the horrible rookie ships that everyone starts with. This is your introduction to the game and you are forced to fly something that looks pretty ghetto. Well, that's being solved as we were shown the concept art and nearly complete renderings of all four new Rookie ship skins that will be going into EVE "soon". The new Reaper, in particular, looked amazing and makes me wonder how scary the Rifter will look if / when they get around to tweaking it as well. So, yet another example of how the CSM has no power. :)
Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law.
What I see here is CSM again not representing the majority of the playerbase.
Quoted for unimaginable awesome. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
172
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.
Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program
Most online games have some sort of initiative to reward long time players for forking over their money every month for long periods of time. This discussion was not only about what kind of 'rewards' might be offered but also how to continue increasing information flow to players so they don't rage quit over things like the Retribution still only having one mid-slot.
First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..
Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space.
Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources
There was quite a bit discussed here but the #1 request the CSM made is that we want to blow up stations. Destructible Outposts are going to be absolutely key to any kind of sov revamp. In the past, for Dominion, the idea was to have wreckable stations that you would be able to repair. Progress on several fronts has apparently made it possible to completely destroy player built outposts. 'Possibly' does not mean with 100% certainty that it will happen, but it's looking more likely than ever before. Obviously the mechanics of what to do with people's stuff need to be worked out but I feel like CCP is now on-board with the fact that big explosions are good things.
Another big topic in this session was how NPC stations in 0.0 affect null sec warfare. Looking at ways to put more control in the hands of the players is something else CCP Soundwave and his team will be looking at this next year.
The old 'Farms & Fields' topic came up again, along with moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes. There is a lot to do here but for the first time in years CCP seems to have the resources and the mindset to actually tackle and resolve many of the old issues that continue to plague us all.
Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?
NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.
Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all..
Game Balance
Another issue the CSM brought up was something close to my own heart - for characters that have been in supercaps for the past few years (Seleene has been in a Nyx since late 2006), pretty much everyone has maxed their drone skills. With the complete removal of the ability to use drones in supers, this renders several million skill points worth of training completely obsolete.
Well, that is indeed a shame. What exactly are you guys fishing for, re-allocation of skill points? Have the Drone bay replaced? Suck it up and learn to deal with the changes. Everyone gets hit unfavorably from time to time by changes to the game.
Art - Eye Candy
First off, one of the things that CSM 6 bitched about early on was the horrible rookie ships that everyone starts with. This is your introduction to the game and you are forced to fly something that looks pretty ghetto. Well, that's being solved as we were shown the concept art and nearly complete renderings of all four new Rookie ship skins that will be going into EVE "soon". The new Reaper, in particular, looked amazing and makes me wonder how scary the Rifter will look if / when they get around to tweaking it as well. So, yet another example of how the CSM has no power. :)
Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law.
What I see here is CSM again not representing the majority of the playerbase.
Very nicely put. Add it to the list titled "who does the CSM represent?" |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1418
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:49:00 -
[142] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Very nicely put. Add it to the list titled "who does the CSM represent?" This is an easy one. They represent the people who bothered to vote.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:14:00 -
[143] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course). If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system. And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems. Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_systemRead up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs)
Yes, but when you eliminate the entire campaign force and cabinet every term you are essentially destroying any possibility for the political party to keep itself organized enough to coordinate suicide ganks with efficiency. Furthermore if one side can do it, so can the other, so it forces a stalemate where both sides refuse to do it out of mutual fear.
Add to that that inability to wake up in a clone and it is a massively bad idea. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1143
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:26:00 -
[144] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course). If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system. And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems. Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_systemRead up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs) Yes, but when you eliminate the entire campaign force and cabinet every term you are essentially destroying any possibility for the political party to keep itself organized enough to coordinate suicide ganks with efficiency. Furthermore if one side can do it, so can the other, so it forces a stalemate where both sides refuse to do it out of mutual fear. Add to that that inability to wake up in a clone and it is a massively bad idea.
Who runs the country? We're looking for a voting system that results in a government, not nobody showing up.
Manipulation by parties is not talking about fraud, it's talking about times when a voter might vote for a choice other than their most favored choice, often due to the expectation that their most favored choice has no chance to win, and thus they vote to avoid their less favored choice among the major party candidates. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
281
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
The blog was fluffy, though I'm glad to hear destructible stations are on the menu. Man CSM... if you fix null sov I'm going to take back every unkind thing I've ever said about the CSM. Then I'll move to null.
Looking forward to some hard details and some meeting minutes.
Thanks for the update. All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
933
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 00:40:00 -
[146] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.
First of all, my posted reply is directed to Seleene, not you.
Secondly, who appointed you as the Official Spokesperson?
Thirdly, I'd rather die first than accept your offer even if you added in a million dollars.
Malcanis wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.
Future of the CSM
CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.
This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.
So from a position of knowing nothing about exactly what was discussed, you conclude that the agenda exactly matched your assumptions?
The same goes for you.
First of all, my posted reply is directed to Seleene, not you.
Secondly, who appointed you as the Official Spokesperson?
Thirdly, I'm not assuming anything nor did I make a factual statement.
As much as I detest responding to players who try to provoke and berate others, I'll address your questions. A little common sense while viewing the Blog statement presents a good idea of what transpired.
Everyone knows that the first rule of Public Relations is to establish good relations, usually done with gifts and excessive compliments (normally known as 'Kissing Butt'). Comparing the current CSM to previous CSM's is where that happens. CCP is not going to start a summit meeting by saying the current CSM is the worst group ever even if it is true. Quite the opposite. It is in CCP's best interest to bolster good feelings with the group so that most everything is accepted in a positive viewpoint. Probably at least a 1/2 hour discussion spent doing this.
About the nomination / election process, it is in the Alliance members best interest to propose and agree with procedures that are favorable to them, such as being able to indirectly influence the outcome. You can be sure the last thing they would do is cut their own throats by recommending any changes that would hinder that ability. I would venture to say that at least 1 hour discussion was spent on this subject.
As for ideas on a new voting process, there's probably plenty of ideas in the sub forum channels 'Jita Park Speakers Corner' and 'Features And Ideas Discussion'. You're welcome to do a search.
However, I did happen to stumble upon this idea which I think has a good starting base for more development. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=607397#post607397 (Page 3 post 51)
Anyway, as I said before, your names are not Seleene and you're not the Official Spokesperson for this thread. You may have self proclaimed yourselves as that but all I see is some players who try to belittle others for voicing a different opinion. |
Disdaine
179
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 00:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: About the nomination / election process, it is in the Alliance members best interest to propose and agree with procedures that are favorable to them, such as being able to indirectly influence the outcome. You can be sure the last thing they would do is cut their own throats by recommending any changes that would hinder that ability. I would venture to say that at least 1 hour discussion was spent on this subject.
Probably why the goons are against a mandatory voting system.
Quote:so because you don't like the current CSM, the next one should be voted for by the uninformed drooling masses, through mandatory voting, in hopes that it will accomplish absolutely nothing? what an idea
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53672&find=unread
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
933
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:35:00 -
[148] - Quote
Just wanted to point out that only the top quote in the above posted reply by Disdaine is a statement by me. None of the other quotes are mine.
Gogela wrote:EDIT: I want to respond to this crap. ...in itallicsDeMichael Crimson wrote:EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program
First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..
Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space. This is dumb. They could come out with some kind of "token" system like they did with the Aurum for the x-mas gift or they could set up a "CCP LP" store for which you accrue 1 point for every day you are subscribed... there are a lot of potential solutions to this. It looks to me like you are whining just to whine. As you so eloquently stated, I also want to respond to this crap. ...in Bold
In reality, this is just another form of appeasement intended to placate some very vocal bitter vets. CCP has already done enough of that. I still stand by my original statement. What's dumb is suggesting CCP divert Development Resources from core game issues to this frivolous and prejudiced idea. Looks to me like you're trying to troll.
Gogela wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources
Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?
NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.
Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all. Are you kidding? Total destruction is THE way to go! There are a ton of reasons to allow total destruction: Demoralize your enemy, get them out of that space for good, make the space less valuable to future aggressors (certainly that would be a good strategic move in certain circumstances for chilling out boarder regions of larger alliances)... the list goes on. You just seem really uncreative here. Yah I like NPC stations in some instances of Null though... look at Fountain as an example of where NPC stations work well.... it's like the frickin' wild west out there. However, Null does not have the highest earning potential in the game. Not right now. Not by a LONG shot.
Guess you have no idea about strategic warfare tactics. Take a lesson from real life history, the 'Scorched Earth Policy' is rarely ever done. Why? Because it takes too long and costs too much to rebuild. And Null Sec does too have the highest isk making potential. Higher NPC bounties, higher mission rewards, higher level exploration sites, high end Ores / PI. Oh yeah, lets not forget the ability to beef everything up with Infrastructure Upgrades. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
933
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:36:00 -
[149] - Quote
Gogela wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Art - Eye Candy
Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law. Who cares about Rookie ships at all? Only nubs. But guess what? Nubs are where the fresh meat in your freezer comes from, and if you want them to stay and you want eve to grow, you need to realize that nubs are a top priority. Give them their pretty and badass looking ibis... let them see how awesome eve looks. Why not? You have forgotten how long it takes just to get the basics of this game. Try going to a starter system and see how many nub ships are on infinite coast undocking unable to figure out how to re-dock. Most nubs will spend a significant amount of time in their nub ship just trying to decide if they want to play for another day or even another hour... that is a pretty critical time, imho. I almost walked away in 2006 when I started. EvE just looked too complicated and boring.
I agree new players are an important priority. Other than that, you're wrong. I haven't forgotten anything since I'm still in NPC corp and I interact and help lot's of new players everyday. They are usually out of Rookie ships within the first couple hours playing due to Career Agents. The current tutorial is quite good and a lot better than when I started in 2008 which has changed a lot from your 2006 tutorial. As I said before, Development Resources could be wisely allocated to other game play content.
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
282
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:52:00 -
[150] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Guess you have no idea about strategic warfare tactics. Take a lesson from real life history, the 'Scorched Earth Policy' is rarely ever done. Why? Because it takes too long and costs too much to rebuild. And Null Sec does too have the highest isk making potential. Higher NPC bounties, higher mission rewards, higher level exploration sites, high end Ores / PI. Oh yeah, lets not forget the ability to beef everything up with Infrastructure Upgrades.
I do take lessons from history... and if you go back WWII or before scorched earth was the name of the game, son. Fields were burned to prevent movement of armies and decimate enemy populations throughout the history of war/mankind. During the 30 years war plague infested bodies were catapulted into towns to wipe out their populations. Hell, in Vietnam the US sprayed agent orange over entire forests/cities and invented the "daisy cutter". These are not precision weapons. ...nor are Nukes. To this day scorched earth is still policy (though it's been renamed mutually assured destruction now) but the truth is that in a REAL war... wars about the very survival of the populace on both sides, wars in which greater powers will not intervene, wars without bounds or humanity such as those I think we would all love to have in EvE, scorched earth is VERY effective at wiping out opposing populations and making potential future enemies pay the f*** attention when you are swinging your stick. You should take a lesson from history and realize this tiny little island of time we live in is one of the most peaceful and civilized periods since long before Europeans turned gunpowder into bullet go-juice.
Wait for it. Just wait. Goons... PL... hell most of the major alliances right now are on cruise control. If they even bother to hold space it's an afterthought. We get some non-conformal resources, destructible outposts, and more scaleable combat, these null sec pods will burn down all of creation. People were super-serious (a lot more than recently I feel) about there internet spaceships back in the day... it's a level of crazy I've never seen anywhere else or since... but I digress.
TL;DR; - History: you're doing it wrong. Google harder.
All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |
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Frau JeanYus
PsiTit Corp
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 04:19:00 -
[151] - Quote
1st - Thanks Seleene - appreciate the post.!
Any talk / discussion about Dust514 and any interaction with EvE ? Or is the CSM totally out of the picture regarding Dust?
Just curious.
Thanks again to all involved (CSM)
Fly Smart
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
173
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 08:45:00 -
[152] - Quote
Just a quick thought. Destructable stations mean that someone could destroy every station and not rebuild them in order to disable nullsec just for the fun of it. And also there's the issue with neutral assets in destroyed stations... how does CCP plan to deal with a potential break of the rule that "docked is safe"? By making neutrals indestructable so station owners just keep the corpo hangars empty and contract all stuff to neutral alts if they can't hold the station? Or will CCP really go and break the "docked is safe" rule?
If i was CCP, *I* would not trust nullsec to the gratuitously assumed good will of bored players; destructable game rules are a call to destructable gameplay, which is a call to destroying the game. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
219
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 23:07:00 -
[153] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Just a quick thought. Destructable stations mean that someone could destroy every station and not rebuild them in order to disable nullsec just for the fun of it. And also there's the issue with neutral assets in destroyed stations... how does CCP plan to deal with a potential break of the rule that "docked is safe"? By making neutrals indestructable so station owners just keep the corpo hangars empty and contract all stuff to neutral alts if they can't hold the station? Or will CCP really go and break the "docked is safe" rule?
If i was CCP, *I* would not trust nullsec to the gratuitously assumed good will of bored players; destructable game rules are a call to destructable gameplay, which is a call to destroying the game.
I'm not convinced about fully destructable stations since its just one more deterrent in a long list of deterrents for people looking at making the move into zerosec, but I'd be very much onboard with wrecking the **** out of them in ways that make them completely non-functional until repaired, and a gigantic pain in the ass to repair (and by gigantic pain in the ass to repair I'm thinking deployment of very expensive, very bulky, very vulnerable repair structures which slowly patch up a wrecked station, not just triaging on the undock until the shields come back). ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1146
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 23:38:00 -
[154] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
First of all, my posted reply is directed to Seleene, not you.
Secondly, who appointed you as the Official Spokesperson?
Thirdly, I'd rather die first than accept your offer even if you added in a million dollars.
This is a Forum discussion, based on the Fora of ancient Rome where everyone (who was politically powerful enough to be allowed in) was allowed to yell at each other. So if you want to make some private communication to CSM Seleene, you could have sent an EVEmail or something like that rather than making a public post.
Secondly, the INTERNET appointed me as the Official Spokesperson.
Thirdly, in that case, don't attempt to answer that question then. But you're missing out.
There are something like 5 times as many people living in Hisec than Nullsec. If you want the CSM to represent your interests, organize and put forward a fleet of candidates that you all vote for. Then you'll get an all Hiseccer CSM. |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
133
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 23:48:00 -
[155] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course). If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system. And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems. Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_systemRead up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs) Yes, but when you eliminate the entire campaign force and cabinet every term you are essentially destroying any possibility for the political party to keep itself organized enough to coordinate suicide ganks with efficiency. Furthermore if one side can do it, so can the other, so it forces a stalemate where both sides refuse to do it out of mutual fear. Add to that that inability to wake up in a clone and it is a massively bad idea. Who runs the country? We're looking for a voting system that results in a government, not nobody showing up. Manipulation by parties is not talking about fraud, it's talking about times when a voter might vote for a choice other than their most favored choice, often due to the expectation that their most favored choice has no chance to win, and thus they vote to avoid their less favored choice among the major party candidates.
Just shut up and give me my sandwich.
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1146
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 23:52:00 -
[156] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kuronaga wrote:
You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.
However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.
No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course). If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system. And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems. Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_systemRead up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs) Yes, but when you eliminate the entire campaign force and cabinet every term you are essentially destroying any possibility for the political party to keep itself organized enough to coordinate suicide ganks with efficiency. Furthermore if one side can do it, so can the other, so it forces a stalemate where both sides refuse to do it out of mutual fear. Add to that that inability to wake up in a clone and it is a massively bad idea. Who runs the country? We're looking for a voting system that results in a government, not nobody showing up. Manipulation by parties is not talking about fraud, it's talking about times when a voter might vote for a choice other than their most favored choice, often due to the expectation that their most favored choice has no chance to win, and thus they vote to avoid their less favored choice among the major party candidates. Just shut up and give me my sandwich.
You've earned the sandwich, but you really need to work harder to earn the striptease. And they're a package deal. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
940
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 00:28:00 -
[157] - Quote
Gogela wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Guess you have no idea about strategic warfare tactics. Take a lesson from real life history, the 'Scorched Earth Policy' is rarely ever done. Why? Because it takes too long and costs too much to rebuild. And Null Sec does too have the highest isk making potential. Higher NPC bounties, higher mission rewards, higher level exploration sites, high end Ores / PI. Oh yeah, lets not forget the ability to beef everything up with Infrastructure Upgrades.
I do take lessons from history... and if you go back WWII or before scorched earth was the name of the game, son. Fields were burned to prevent movement of armies and decimate enemy populations throughout the history of war/mankind. During the 30 years war plague infested bodies were catapulted into towns to wipe out their populations. Hell, in Vietnam the US sprayed agent orange over entire forests/cities and invented the "daisy cutter". These are not precision weapons. ...nor are Nukes. To this day scorched earth is still policy (though it's been renamed mutually assured destruction now) but the truth is that in a REAL war... wars about the very survival of the populace on both sides, wars in which greater powers will not intervene, wars without bounds or humanity such as those I think we would all love to have in EvE, scorched earth is VERY effective at wiping out opposing populations and making potential future enemies pay the f*** attention when you are swinging your stick. You should take a lesson from history and realize this tiny little island of time we live in is one of the most peaceful and civilized periods since long before Europeans turned gunpowder into bullet go-juice. TL;DR; - History: you're doing it wrong. Google harder.
Yeah I agree, small towns, villages, bridges, fields, etc were all destroyed. And yes, biological warfare was also used. The underlying theme here is about killing the populace and resources of opposing forces when advancing or slowing down the onslaught of an advancing hostile force. Major usable structures like a Castle, Fortress, Port of Call, etc. usually were not destroyed. Most of those were invaded and captured.
Using that analogy for Eve, the POS, POCO, Jump Bridge, etc would be the small towns, villages, fields, etc. which are all expendable and can be quickly replaced. Space station, Outpost, etc is like a Castle, Fortress, Port Of Call, etc which are strategic targets to be captured, especially since they take a lot of time and resources to build.
Anyway, this is now getting off topic and everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint and interpretation of 'Scorched Earth Policy'.
TL;DR; Mutually Assured Destruction is not the same as Scorched Earth Policy. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
940
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 00:53:00 -
[158] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
First of all, my posted reply is directed to Seleene, not you.
Secondly, who appointed you as the Official Spokesperson?
Thirdly, I'd rather die first than accept your offer even if you added in a million dollars.
This is a Forum discussion, based on the Fora of ancient Rome where everyone (who was politically powerful enough to be allowed in) was allowed to yell at each other. So if you want to make some private communication to CSM Seleene, you could have sent an EVEmail or something like that rather than making a public post. Secondly, the INTERNET appointed me as the Official Spokesperson. Thirdly, in that case, don't attempt to answer that question then. But you're missing out. There are something like 5 times as many people living in Hisec than Nullsec. If you want the CSM to represent your interests, organize and put forward a fleet of candidates that you all vote for. Then you'll get an all Hiseccer CSM.
Guess you missed this part:
Seleene wrote:I could have written more but I wanted to get this thing out before Christmas. I hope you enjoy the write up. Feel free to ask questions and I'll keep an eye on this thread and try to reply as time allows.
You're not in the CSM, you weren't at the Summit Meeting, you didn't help create the Blog and you didn't post this thread. Your opinion and remarks are irrelevant unless directed towards Seleene.
The only thing the internet did was allow you to self appoint yourself as the Official Trollperson, which you do very well.
|
Disdaine
181
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 00:54:00 -
[159] - Quote
What the hell is this :
The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29569
Could someone explain to this dbag that he is supposed to represent the entire playerbase and not the 5,365 alt accounts who voted him in. |
Baidol Veris
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 01:03:00 -
[160] - Quote
I'll be happy to log off of one of my 5365 alt accounts to log back into The Mittani after I finish burning down Branch. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 02:25:00 -
[161] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: You're not in the CSM, you weren't at the Summit Meeting, you didn't help create the Blog and you didn't post this thread. Your opinion and remarks are irrelevant unless directed towards Seleene.
The only thing the internet did was allow you to self appoint yourself as the Official Trollperson, which you do very well.
I also missed the part of the OP where CSM Seleene requested that nobody else attempt to educate people who post in this forum. Waitaminite.....
I never claimed to be at the Summit, help create the Blog, but I am fairly certain I posted in this thread. My opinion and remarks are exactly as relevant as yours, so.... actually irrelevant is pretty apt.
If I were sober enough to remember what moronic claptrap I initially responded to, I'd .... something. Lost my train of thought.
As to your final thought, Why thank you, I do try. But it's either "allow you to be the self-appointed Official Trollperson" or "allow you to appoint yourself the Official Trollperson" attempting to use both as in "self appoint yourself" is improper grammar and redundant. "as" is also superfluous. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 02:37:00 -
[162] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:What the hell is this : The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29569Could someone explain to this dbag that he is supposed to represent the entire playerbase and not the 5,365 alt accounts who voted him in.
As far as I can remember there is nothing in the CSM rules or his campaign promises that says he's required to represent anyone other than those who voted for him, or even that.
That said, I think the Mittani has been a pretty good CSM chair. His 4 legs help with stability, and his pillowy softness makes lounging much more.... wait, where was I. Right. I think Mittens represents those players who joined wanting an MMO in which PvP activity pervades every part of life. Even though I was hurt to the tune of a hundred million Isk by the Ice interdiction (I wasn't paying enough attention to buy mass quantities of topes at the beginning), I thought it was awesome and perfectly in line with the spirit of the game. |
Disdaine
181
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:03:00 -
[163] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: As far as I can remember there is nothing in the CSM rules or his campaign promises that says he's required to represent anyone other than those who voted for him, or even that.
http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSMSummary.pdf
Quote: The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community
Quote:GÇó Engage the populace on all issue debates and discussions GÇó Represent the public views on issues to the CCP Council |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:17:00 -
[164] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: As far as I can remember there is nothing in the CSM rules or his campaign promises that says he's required to represent anyone other than those who voted for him, or even that.
http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSMSummary.pdfQuote: The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community
Quote:GÇó Engage the populace on all issue debates and discussions GÇó Represent the public views on issues to the CCP Council
Active engagement. The Mittani is nothing if not actively engaged. Weather you like his methods or not is irrelevant.
Engage the populace in debate. Yep, he yells on the forums like we all do.
Represent public views on issues. This doesn't say advocate, and I've never seen any evidence saying he doesn't read CCP the F&I forums as a bedtime story. From all accounts he is very outspoken in bringing CCP ideas to help improve the game.
Again, he has no obligation to advocate ideas that you like. If you don't like the way he represents the players, you can vote for someone else. You could also run against him, or organize a group to load the next CSM with people other than Mittens. That's how you deal with elected officials whose policies you don't like. Until then, he still has no obligation to do stuff you like. |
Disdaine
181
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:42:00 -
[165] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: If you don't like the way he represents the players
The Mittani wrote:i only represent my constituents |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 04:47:00 -
[166] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: If you don't like the way he represents the players
The Mittani wrote:i only represent my constituents
Per Wikipedia "An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there."
A constituent is a member of an electoral district.
So he represents everyone. What he was saying was that he only represents the interests of those who voted for him. Nobody who ever was on the winning side of an election has ever asked the elected official to represent the interests of the defeated group. And given that there is no equivalent of a constitution to protect the rights of minority voters, they get screwed. Representative, Unconstitutional Democracy is like that. FYI: He won with around 6000 votes if memory serves. There are often 50,000 people logged in at any given time (and something like 200,000 active accounts). Not his fault that you can't seem to organize enough voters to unseat him. |
Disdaine
182
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 06:59:00 -
[167] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: Per Wikipedia "An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there."
A constituent is a member of an electoral district.
So he represents everyone. What he was saying was that he only represents the interests of those who voted for him. Nobody who ever was on the winning side of an election has ever asked the elected official to represent the interests of the defeated group. And given that there is no equivalent of a constitution to protect the rights of minority voters, they get screwed. Representative, Unconstitutional Democracy is like that. FYI: He won with around 6000 votes if memory serves. There are often 50,000 people logged in at any given time (and something like 200,000 active accounts). Not his fault that you can't seem to organize enough voters to unseat him.
He is not referring to his constituents as being the electoral district comprising every eve player. He is referring to HIS constituents as in the people who voted for him.
The Mittani wrote:Every CSM represents their own constituents. Some have delusions about 'representing everyone'. I do not.
The Mittani wrote:I represent nullsec, hisec greifers, and anyone else who understands that EVE is a place for war and murder, not safety and weakness. As it happens, the voice of my constituents is far louder than the OP's cry for help; that is why I am the Chairman. That I scam, kill, and gank and conquer are all reasons why my constituents feel that I represent their viewpoints accurately, and voted for me in the first place.
Nice try though. I can define things too :
Constituent : a person who authorizes another to act in his or her behalf http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/constituent |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 07:02:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ok, now show that what he's doing is somehow against the CSM rules.
EDIT
The Mittani wrote:I represent their viewpoints accurately, and voted for me in the first place.
Their viewpoints can roughly be translated from Mittenspeak to mean their interests.
He represents everyone, but only represents the interests of those who voted for him. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2562
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 07:25:00 -
[169] - Quote
To this day I am still waiting for someone to detail exactly how mittens has actually done* anything as a CSM rep that harms anyone's game. All I ever see is people going to great lengths to prove that he's the leader of goonswarm therefore WHARGLE GARBLE MISCONDUNCT CORRUPTION EULA IMPEACH TERRORISM GRIEFER
I didn't vote for him with either of my accounts (Trebor got mine), but I'm extremely satisfied with how he and the CSM as a whole have not only represented me but advocated my interests. I disagree with him on a couple of things, but on the whole, CSM6 has done almost nothing but good for EVE, and I once again challenge anyone to provide a concrete example of something mittens or the CSM have actually done that harmed their game.
(*Being rude to idiots on the forums hardly counts.) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Disdaine
182
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 07:40:00 -
[170] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: He represents everyone, but only represents the interests of those who voted for him.
Quote:Some have delusions about 'representing everyone'. I do not. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1147
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 07:48:00 -
[171] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: He represents everyone, but only represents the interests of those who voted for him.
Quote:Some have delusions about 'representing [the interests of] everyone'. I do not.
An elected official, by definition, represents everyone who had the ability to vote for them.
Whose interests they represent is the interesting question. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 09:41:00 -
[172] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Engage the populace in debate. Yep, he yells on the forums like we all do. Mittens isn't really the yelling type.
The idiots claiming that CSMs have to represent everyone's terrible ideas to CCP are basically the same sorts of idiots who hassle retail staff by saying 'I'm a customer, that means I pay your wages so I'm technically your boss and you have to do whatever I say' whilst making ludicrous demands, and its so very satisfying to see the same look of bemused rage on their faces as they're laughed at and shown the door. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 10:00:00 -
[173] - Quote
Anyone is welcome to try and lobby his harebrained idea to any CSM member.
If you fail at convincing even a single CSM member, you probably fail for a reason that has something to do with your idea.
CSM members were elected based on democratic voting process - if you are unhappy with that you are welcome to run yourself or campaign for a member you think would represent your interests. If you cannot find even a CSM candidate to support your ideas (let alone campaign for him to get him elected)... it probably is just you and your harebrained ideas and concepts and you are a minority. Live with it.
(Goons don't vote for Mittani because Mittani says so, Goons vote for him because they think he would be pro at representing their ideas. Democracy is wonderful, isn't it?) |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 11:17:00 -
[174] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Anyone is welcome to try and lobby his harebrained idea to any CSM member.
If you fail at convincing even a single CSM member, you probably fail for a reason that has something to do with your idea.
no no no you see I am a constituent and the CSM represent me, that means they're honour bound to listen politely for an hour to whatever pants-on-head gamebreaking feature I crapped out this morning, run directly to Skype to grab the first available Dev and insist it is added to Eve immediately, stamping their feet and throwing spoons until it appears in the forthcoming patch notes. A voter has spoken, make it so, Soundwave!
If they don't do this they're in breach of the NDA, the EULA, the Geneva Convention, and possibly the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which means that Mittani should be lowered into a live Icelandic volcano head first as punishment, and CCP should wrap up the entire CSM as a failed experiment and go back to inhaling from cans of rotten shark fin to get inspiration for the future direction of Eve.
(did that cover everything?) ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1148
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 11:23:00 -
[175] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote: possibly the Second Law of Thermodynamics,)
You handsome devil, you. Owen Wilson here speaks truth. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1285
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 12:28:00 -
[176] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:...which means that Mittani should be lowered into a live Icelandic volcano head first as punishment... Head first? Wouldn't that be the merciful way to do it?
I mean, this is EVE! CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Ambo
I've Got Nothing
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 17:14:00 -
[177] - Quote
Fascinating read. Thanks for the writeup. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 17:51:00 -
[178] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Just a quick thought. Destructable stations mean that someone could destroy every station and not rebuild them in order to disable nullsec just for the fun of it. And also there's the issue with neutral assets in destroyed stations... how does CCP plan to deal with a potential break of the rule that "docked is safe"? By making neutrals indestructable so station owners just keep the corpo hangars empty and contract all stuff to neutral alts if they can't hold the station? Or will CCP really go and break the "docked is safe" rule?
If i was CCP, *I* would not trust nullsec to the gratuitously assumed good will of bored players; destructable game rules are a call to destructable gameplay, which is a call to destroying the game. I'm not convinced about fully destructable stations since its just one more deterrent in a long list of deterrents for people looking at making the move into zerosec, but I'd be very much onboard with wrecking the **** out of them in ways that make them completely non-functional until repaired, and a gigantic pain in the ass to repair (and by gigantic pain in the ass to repair I'm thinking deployment of very expensive, very bulky, very vulnerable repair structures which slowly patch up a wrecked station, not just triaging on the undock until the shields come back).
All this sounds well, but, much as the existing nullsec mechanics, it would make life more miserable to smallholders. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
308
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 20:16:00 -
[179] - Quote
Quote:In other words - one step at a time, make all the pieces fit, avoid ~awesome~.
If this is true, then everything else is just a bonus. Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Forum Fighter
Internet Tough Guys
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 20:55:00 -
[180] - Quote
How many times did Mittani say: "Sucking chest wounds?" Bearer of the 1600mm Tinfoil HatGäó |
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 23:26:00 -
[181] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:To this day I am still waiting for someone to detail exactly how mittens has actually done* anything as a CSM rep that harms anyone's game. I'm surprised Disdaine hasn't jumped all over this.
Oh wait...no I'm not.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Carcosa Hali
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 06:48:00 -
[182] - Quote
Well my candidate made it to the CSM... so I'm happy. Gotta say as a Sansha Loyalist that I felt that Incursion was a nice patch... despite what others may feel. But yeah.. if you didn't vote, don't complain.. You chose to be marginalized.
Bottom line is, nice report from the CSM. Can't wait for what comes next... And it better involve Sansha. =P |
Daneirkus Auralex
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 08:07:00 -
[183] - Quote
Thanks for the awesome write up. Im particularly interested in the art teams work, and battlestar galactica-esque effects.
In my opinion, when flying through space, seeing the sights, it should feel like you're looking out the bridge window at the helm. Space is deep, millions of stars twinkle at you.. you get the feeling that space is alive.
When you're in a fleet flight, it should feel like you're at a tactical console. Let's face it, we're zoomed out so that we can see the battlespace, your tactical overlay is on, weapons cyclilng etc etc. I feel like CCP could do more to enhance these themes in both directions.
Also, WTB time dilation. And WTB a tactical overlay that can extend vertically as well as horizontally. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 08:24:00 -
[184] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:To this day I am still waiting for someone to detail exactly how mittens has actually done* anything as a CSM rep that harms anyone's game.
If I remember correctly, there was the whole wormhole ABC thing. You know, where he and possibly some of the others wanted to remove the ABC ores from wormhole space because they didn't realize that wormhole space wasn't highsec.
I seem to remember him being called out on it and playing dumb, and nothing got "done"....
Well, the drone region noms did get nerfed....in turn buffing the nulsec mining bots. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2564
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 10:46:00 -
[185] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:Malcanis wrote:To this day I am still waiting for someone to detail exactly how mittens has actually done* anything as a CSM rep that harms anyone's game. If I remember correctly, there was the whole wormhole ABC thing. You know, where he and possibly some of the others wanted to remove the ABC ores from wormhole space because they didn't realize that wormhole space wasn't highsec. I seem to remember him being called out on it and playing dumb, and nothing got "done".... Well, the drone region noms did get nerfed....in turn buffing the nulsec mining bots.
W-space: so nothing was actually done that made anyone's game worse. He made an off the cuff remark, clarified repeatedly that he would be spending exactly 0 effort on following through such a minor issue, and, as you say, dropped the whole thing after the matter was analyzed in more detail. Yeah, not exactly Cambodian deathcamps stuff, is it?
As fo drone regions, some bots got nerfed to the slight advantage of other bots, while buffing the mining profession as a whole. I see this as a net plus to human players. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Prince Kobol
156
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 12:05:00 -
[186] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:To this day I am still waiting for someone to detail exactly how mittens has actually done* anything as a CSM rep that harms anyone's game.
(*Being rude to idiots on the forums hardly counts.)
He has been the cause of some truly god awful posting which in turn has wasted precious minutes of my life which I can never get back and could of been spent doing very important things like scratch my hairy balls, does that count |
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