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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:18:56 -
[31] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:I am fed up with your superior attitude. I a new, and I said so from the start Being "new" affords you only a very finite amount of consideration, guy. You want to ask questions because you're new, fine. When people who aren't new explain, in detail, why your thoughts, issued from the perspective of one who is new, are erroneous, and you then refuse to assimilate that information into your perspective, that consideration terminates pretty abruptly. Quote:I said my opinion and I stand by it, an alt is and alt and should be seprated from the main.
The notion of "separate" is antithetical to the entire game. It doesn't exist here. Nothing is separate. It is a single-shard game with a player-driven economy. If you want to "opt out" of any aspect of that, your sole option is the test server. They're not going to fundamentally alter the fabric of the game for the sake of some new player who can't be arsed to understand that Eve is an economic sim as much as a spaceship one.
Now your saying something true... and this is what shoudl said from the start. Instead of insunating I am a moron and incapable etc... all you would have to say was these few things...
It doesn't exist here.
Thats all... and say This is EVE, like ot or get out... thats all. No amount of reasoning or trying to say I want it all or wreck the game. Those simple words would sufficed.
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2352
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:21:05 -
[32] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:Explain how you will magically code around the following scenarios:
Bob makes 2700 sp/hr alts. Bob extracts that SP and puts it in his corp hangar, where it is retrieved by his main. Bob makes 2700 sp/hr alts. Bob extracts that SP and puts the resulting injectors for sale on the open market. Bob uses the money resulting from the sales to buy injectors from Alice, who is doing the same thing. Bob makes 2700 sp/hr alts on two separate accounts. Bob extracts the XP, passing the resulting injectors between accounts.
All of these things are doable now, of course, but there is also a cost associated with doing so, providing balance. You're basically saying, "Yeah, just destroy that entirely because IWANTIWANTIWANT."
Short of literally locking those characters out of most of the mechanics in the game, there is no TOTALLY SEPARATE anything in Eve. It doesn't work that way. There's no "soulbound" items here. Everything is a commodity to be traded.
simply put... Look at how Blizzard done auctionhouse both real and blackmarket. You can not bid on your own items with alts you can not buy your own items as alts. take that a step further....
Tag everything you said with a simply nametag, then put a checker on the code saying something like if the nametag matches names on your own account then you are ineligable to purchase or interact with any items with the tag from any of your own alts. It can be done. It is done so in many other MMO's, or are you saying that CCP coders are not as capable as those of WoW?
What you just suggested does not prevent Bob exchanging items between accounts, nor Bob merely putting his items for sale on the open market, and buying the same type of item from others.
Furthermore, it ignores the fact that "bound" items are antithetical to the design concept of Eve, where everything is a commodity to be traded.
So, you have failed to provide a working solution to the problems that would be created by catering to your whims.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:25:16 -
[33] - Quote
It is an idea, the basic priciple is that anything related to one character is unavaikable to all other characters on that account.
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2352
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:30:21 -
[34] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:It is an idea, the basic priciple is that anything related to one character is unavaikable to all other characters on that account.
And the basic principle is impossible to implement in a way that isn't trivial to sidestep through either multiple accounts, or simple cooperation between players.
Bob (main) trains BobA. BobA extracts his SP, and contracts it to the main on his other account, Alice.
Meanwhile, AliceA does the same thing, contracting the resulting injector to Bob.
Your tagging system has now added a disgusting amount of database overhead while completely failing to solve the problem.
That's not even the ONLY problem with this nonsense - just the most easily illustrated.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
45
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:32:09 -
[35] - Quote
Posting in Raging Insanity thread #42069.
OP, If you don't want to train a second character, buy one from the character bazaar.
What do you gain from having an alt that is completly separate from your main? |
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:32:33 -
[36] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:It is an idea, the basic priciple is that anything related to one character is unavaikable to all other characters on that account. And the basic principle is impossible to implement in a way that isn't trivial to sidestep through either multiple accounts, or simple cooperation between players. Bob (main) trains BobA. BobA extracts his SP, and contracts it to the main on his other account, Alice. Meanwhile, AliceA does the same thing, contracting the resulting injector to Bob. Your tagging system has now added a disgusting amount of database overhead while completely failing to solve the problem. That's not even the ONLY problem with this nonsense - just the most easily illustrated.
ahh but there you have it.... IF you want to sidestep it THEN you do need to buy an account extra. THEN you chose the extra cost. at least you have a choise then, no?
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:33:49 -
[37] - Quote
either way, we will never agree on this and I am done bickering, I have an opinion, might be bad in your eyes, but then we have what 11 billion ppl on this planet, if we all thought alike it would be boring...no?
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
617
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:36:54 -
[38] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:either way, we will never agree on this and I am done bickering, I have an opinion, might be bad in your eyes, but then we have what 11 billion ppl on this planet, if we all thought alike it would be boring...no?
Why do you want an alt in the first place? You have alts in other MMOs because you're locked into a class, and you might want to play something different.
Every character in EVE can train any skill in the game. There are no restrictions. What's the point of the alt you want to start? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2352
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:39:11 -
[39] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote: ahh but there you have it.... IF you want to sidestep it THEN you do need to buy an account extra. THEN you chose the extra cost. at least you have a choise then, no?
No, all I need is a friend, actually. Alice and Bob can just as easily be two separate single-account players and it's still just as broken.
Also, as I noted already, that's not even the only problem - just the one most easily described via Crayola to a player with limited understanding of the rest of the game mechanics.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:42:11 -
[40] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:either way, we will never agree on this and I am done bickering, I have an opinion, might be bad in your eyes, but then we have what 11 billion ppl on this planet, if we all thought alike it would be boring...no? Why do you want an alt in the first place? You have alts in other MMOs because you're locked into a class, and you might want to play something different. Every character in EVE can train any skill in the game. There are no restrictions. What's the point of the alt you want to start?
Originally cause I wanted a female and a male character, and go from 2 different ways, PvP and the other go concentrate on mining.
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
611
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:59:30 -
[41] - Quote
Your only option is what players have been telling you...you can argue all day but it won't alter anything..
You either get 2 accounts, or split your training times on the same account between 2 characters. You might think it's wrong, but it is what it is.
At the minute I'm training a Jita hauler on my other account, but to do it I have had to pause training on the main character for a while..I don't suppose any of us like to do that, but we accept it's what we have to do.
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
618
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Posted - 2016.09.27 18:04:31 -
[42] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:Originally cause I wanted a female and a male character, and go from 2 different ways, PvP and the other go concentrate on mining.
Mining is fairly low skilled. Just pause your queue for a few weeks to get an alt into a mining barge.
Stop comparing this to other games. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2353
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Posted - 2016.09.27 18:08:14 -
[43] - Quote
Quote:Stop comparing this to other games.
Seriously.
Imagine someone going to the WoW forum and saying, "You know, in Eve you can just train your character up automatically while you're offline - I don't understand why I can't do that here?!? I don't want to go kill mobs for XP, just let me click a button and log on later at level whatever-the-cap-is-these-days?"
This thread is exactly as nonsensical as that.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:28:33 -
[44] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Quote:Stop comparing this to other games. Seriously.Imagine someone going to the WoW forum and saying, "You know, in Eve you can just train your character up automatically while you're offline - I don't understand why I can't do that here?!? I don't want to go kill mobs for XP, just let me click a button and log on later at level whatever-the-cap-is-these-days?" This thread is exactly as nonsensical as that.
Umm, its called BOOST, and its already there ;)
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:29:39 -
[45] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Your only option is what players have been telling you...you can argue all day but it won't alter anything..
You either get 2 accounts, or split your training times on the same account between 2 characters. You might think it's wrong, but it is what it is.
At the minute I'm training a Jita hauler on my other account, but to do it I have had to pause training on the main character for a while..I don't suppose any of us like to do that, but we accept it's what we have to do.
^^^^This... would have sufficed for ppl to say^^^^ Thank you :)
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Dahlia Samar
Maniacal Miners INC LEEKSWARM FEDERATION
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:31:02 -
[46] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Quote:Stop comparing this to other games. Seriously.Imagine someone going to the WoW forum and saying, "You know, in Eve you can just train your character up automatically while you're offline - I don't understand why I can't do that here?!? I don't want to go kill mobs for XP, just let me click a button and log on later at level whatever-the-cap-is-these-days?" This thread is exactly as nonsensical as that. Umm, its called BOOST, and its already there ;)
Buy skill-injectors :^)
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2353
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:31:13 -
[47] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Quote:Stop comparing this to other games. Seriously.Imagine someone going to the WoW forum and saying, "You know, in Eve you can just train your character up automatically while you're offline - I don't understand why I can't do that here?!? I don't want to go kill mobs for XP, just let me click a button and log on later at level whatever-the-cap-is-these-days?" This thread is exactly as nonsensical as that. Umm, its called BOOST, and its already there ;)
So you get to do that for free purely by virtue of having an account, or you have to pay extra for it, kind of like here? ;)
Way to dunk your own argument, guy.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Serene Repose
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:46:24 -
[48] - Quote
LOL. Injectors are now an "integral part of the economy." Meaning: Without them the economy folds.
in-+te-+gral -êin(t)+Ö+ír+Öl,in-ête+ír+Öl/adjective:
1. necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
I guess the new crowd has taken over. Long live EVE II!
Oh...wait....the OP. (Sorry. Didn't mean to forget you.) You didn't know you can only train one character on an account at a time? L2P EVE.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2354
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:51:02 -
[49] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:LOL. Injectors are now an "integral part of the economy." Meaning: Without them the economy folds.
in-+te-+gral -êin(t)+Ö+ír+Öl,in-ête+ír+Öl/adjective:
1. necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
I guess the new crowd has taken over. Long live EVE II!
If you want to use the rhetorical device of slapping down the definition of a word, you really have to first check and make sure that you're not the first person in the thread to use the word, or you just come away looking as silly as... well, as silly as you usually do when you post.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Serene Repose
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.27 19:53:40 -
[50] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Serene Repose wrote:LOL. Injectors are now an "integral part of the economy." Meaning: Without them the economy folds.
in-+te-+gral -êin(t)+Ö+ír+Öl,in-ête+ír+Öl/adjective:
1. necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
I guess the new crowd has taken over. Long live EVE II! If you want to use the rhetorical device of slapping down the definition of a word, you really have to first check and make sure that you're not the first person in the thread to use the word, or you just come away looking as silly as... well, as silly as you usually do when you post. I'm sorry. Was I "slapping down the definition of a word"? Silly ME. I thought I was PROVIDING the definition of the word to CLARIFY my point.
Any other misbegotten corrections you may have for me; feel free. I find them amusing.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
28
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:21:19 -
[51] - Quote
welp, to be frankly honest - at this moment I do not really see a point of those 3 characters per account option more than having placeholder alts for example to keep placeholder corp..... or something in this lines
I mean if you want an alt then getting second account wins all hands down.
let's comapre options shall we?
with two accoutns you can multibox and play bot hsimulataneously
with two toons you not only cannot, but you do not have even a convenient was of swapping characters - so if you want to swap the toon you need to restart client
two accounts keep both your main and alt training their skills up in same time at the cost of second subscription.....
to get second character training simultaneously on same account you pay basically just as much
so again what is the reason one should want to setup second toon on same account as opposed to setting up second account in the first place?
I fail to see any
and I have a vague feelign that OP meant to ask this very question |
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:25:14 -
[52] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Quote:Stop comparing this to other games. Seriously.Imagine someone going to the WoW forum and saying, "You know, in Eve you can just train your character up automatically while you're offline - I don't understand why I can't do that here?!? I don't want to go kill mobs for XP, just let me click a button and log on later at level whatever-the-cap-is-these-days?" This thread is exactly as nonsensical as that. Umm, its called BOOST, and its already there ;) So you get to do that for free purely by virtue of having an account, or you have to pay extra for it, kind of like here? ;) Way to dunk your own argument, guy.
actually I got mine for free for upgrading, but your right, it cost to upgrade :)
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Short Bus Syndicate
26
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:26:24 -
[53] - Quote
OP,
Not sure if this will help you any, but they are making a change in how clones are used in a way that might be more what you are looking for with the Alpha/Omega clone changes coming in November.
You will have a limited set of trained skills you can use in alpha state that will be free. This will give a little bit of an idea where the different characters can go without having to spend money for a subscription. |
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:30:01 -
[54] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:welp, to be frankly honest - at this moment I do not really see a point of those 3 characters per account option more than having placeholder alts for example to keep placeholder corp..... or something in this lines
I mean if you want an alt then getting second account wins all hands down.
let's comapre options shall we?
with two accoutns you can multibox and play bot hsimulataneously
with two toons you not only cannot, but you do not have even a convenient was of swapping characters - so if you want to swap the toon you need to restart client
two accounts keep both your main and alt training their skills up in same time at the cost of second subscription.....
to get second character training simultaneously on same account you pay basically just as much
so again what is the reason one should want to setup second toon on same account as opposed to setting up second account in the first place?
I fail to see any
and I have a vague feelign that OP meant to ask this very question
yeah I get that feeling too, why have options for alt if they gonna cost as much as a regular account, but I guess it is for those that can and do pause their mains trainings. but I see the beauty of having 2 accounts and 2 windows... I just bought myself a new screen so I might just be dual boxing it...
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
621
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:36:49 -
[55] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:yeah I get that feeling too, why have options for alt if they gonna cost as much as a regular account, but I guess it is for those that can and do pause their mains trainings. but I see the beauty of having 2 accounts and 2 windows... I just bought myself a new screen so I might just be dual boxing it...
Because you don't need an active queue for many playstyles. I have all three slots in use for every account I have. Here's a list of playstyles that you don't need a queue for:
1. scanning alt (a perfect scanner of mine hasn't had an active queue in over a year) 2. PI alts (train a few weeks and you don't need another skillpoint) 3. research alts 4. trading alts 5. cyno alts 6. certain haulers (I have a blockade runner pilot that hasn't had an active queue in a long time, and has come in handy more than once)
There are more than that, but hopefully you get the idea. There are parts of the game where additional skill points won't help. How does it help my scanning alt to have any combat skills? He just finds hostile systems for me. I only need a character who can cloak, scan, and can stay in hostile space for weeks at a time. No need for an active queue.
Having two windows going at once is great. More than a lot of us do it, but it's only logical to have to pay for two subscriptions for that luxury. So either pay the cash, or wait until you can plex an account to start up the second one. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:39:17 -
[56] - Quote
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:Quihote wrote:You don't have to pay to train an alt on the same account. You can pause training on the primary character in order to train on the alt. If you want to train them simultaneously, then you have to pay.
However, training an alt and a primary on the same account doesn't make sense as a long term plan if you plan on training both characters. If you pay cash for a sub, it's cheaper and more practical to start a second account. If plexing the cost is the same but it might still be more practical to have another account. that whole thing means just this.... You can have an alt but not train the alt unless you pause your main. then what is the point of having an alt if you can not train him/her? My point is that CCP made it so that in reality in order to have an effective alt(mind I said effective) then you have to buy a whole new game by either buy plex or by shopping for 19.95 euros another game. That is not an alt. By forcing the playerbase to in reality eother chose to pause their main or buy a whole new game to effectively play an alt, they are cheating you of the alt experience. if you have an alt, it SHOULD be totally and I mean TOTALLY separate from the main. With the way the system works now its no use to get an alt, why would you when most of your time you have to have training, specially when some skills take days and weeks to learn, why then force people to have to buy additional game time for use with their alt. Its a smart way for them to make cash for sure, but it also for those who are altoholics is a turnoff because I am sure not many would want to pay 2 or 3 games just in order to be allowed to have an alt. To me it makes no sense why I should be forced to buy a whole new game, why not make the second or third training que cost something LESS than the whole new game? I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.
Show us an MMO where you can level multiple characters at the same time.
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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Trymes Companinons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 20:40:10 -
[57] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:yeah I get that feeling too, why have options for alt if they gonna cost as much as a regular account, but I guess it is for those that can and do pause their mains trainings. but I see the beauty of having 2 accounts and 2 windows... I just bought myself a new screen so I might just be dual boxing it... Because you don't need an active queue for many playstyles. I have all three slots in use for every account I have. Here's a list of playstyles that you don't need a queue for: 1. scanning alt (a perfect scanner of mine hasn't had an active queue in over a year) 2. PI alts (train a few weeks and you don't need another skillpoint) 3. research alts 4. trading alts 5. cyno alts 6. certain haulers (I have a blockade runner pilot that hasn't had an active queue in a long time, and has come in handy more than once) There are more than that, but hopefully you get the idea. There are parts of the game where additional skill points won't help. How does it help my scanning alt to have any combat skills? He just finds hostile systems for me. I only need a character who can cloak, scan, and can stay in hostile space for weeks at a time. No need for an active queue. Having two windows going at once is great. More than a lot of us do it, but it's only logical to have to pay for two subscriptions for that luxury. So either pay the cash, or wait until you can plex an account to start up the second one.
This is helpful, allowing me to see how it is done or can be done and I understand, thank you kindly.
I am the Light in the Darkness....
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
404
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Posted - 2016.09.27 22:43:29 -
[58] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Serene Repose wrote:LOL. Injectors are now an "integral part of the economy." Meaning: Without them the economy folds.
in-+te-+gral -êin(t)+Ö+ír+Öl,in-ête+ír+Öl/adjective:
1. necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
I guess the new crowd has taken over. Long live EVE II! If you want to use the rhetorical device of slapping down the definition of a word, you really have to first check and make sure that you're not the first person in the thread to use the word, or you just come away looking as silly as... well, as silly as you usually do when you post. I'm sorry. Was I "slapping down the definition of a word"? Silly ME. I thought I was PROVIDING the definition of the word to CLARIFY my point. Any other misbegotten corrections you may have for me; feel free. I find them amusing. Yeah...I think the quoted text should have used "integrated" rather than "integral."
But I've given up on semantics since I learned that "literally" and "figuratively" are now considered interchangeable.
Dum Spiro Spero
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
284
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Posted - 2016.09.28 03:54:37 -
[59] - Quote
The fundamental issue for the OP is that alts in EVE are different than alts in WOW. In EVE, any one character can theoretically make anything, mine anything, fly anything... depending only on the player's goals. In games like WOW, alts are because there are 12 possible classes to choose from, there are more professions available than any one character can opt for.
I know that most of us already understand this, but it does seem some new players don't. My alts: one is a freighter/transport ship pilot, another slated for ganking.
(Also, in most of those other games the character is the "chosen hero", while here... we are often the scum of the cluster) |
Serene Repose
3073
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Posted - 2016.09.28 05:45:04 -
[60] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:But I've given up on semantics since I learned that "literally" and "figuratively" are now considered interchangeable. All is not lost. At least I got a good chuckle out of that.
Oh, and for those trying to explain this is THIS game not THAT game...don't bother. If they hadn't figured that out by the end of the tutorial, they never will.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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