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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2784
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Posted - 2016.09.30 12:16:55 -
[31] - Quote
Bad Pennyy wrote:So I think you missed a few of my initial points. The Eve universe is *not* persistent. The big point changes are instances of lack of persistence. This change is a function of innovation. But that innovation often has a "zero sum" effect, it causes players to quit. Replacing that lost revenue is expensive. Human psychology is the issue.
Of course it is a persistent universe. That is the whole point of a MMORPG - your activities have meaning and influence the abilities of character and, in Eve at least, the universe around you. You gain progression and assets by doing stuff in the shared universe.
What the Eve universe is not is static. It changes all the time, both because of things the players do (changes in activity level, invasions/wars, changes in the preferred PvP meta, etc.), and by changes made to the game by the developers. Just like real life, you can't always predict what the future will hold, or even what your goals will be down the road.
I think throwing all that out the window and allowing players to respec based on their current whims is a big mistake. It would make character progression meaningless as once you passed some threshold, say ~50M SP, at which you could just pile all your SP into and max out what ever activity you were doing that month (say industry) and then move them all back to your corp's current doctrine fit the next point release. It just doesn't make sense with a progression system like Eve's.
Better to just throw out the whole SP system entirely and give everyone all the skills than to devalue it to the point where you can just slosh your SP around on a regular basis to do whatever you want anyway.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
8
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Posted - 2016.09.30 21:59:37 -
[32] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Bad Pennyy wrote:So I think you missed a few of my initial points. Human psychology is the issue.
I think throwing all that out the window and allowing players to respec based on their current whims is a big mistake
Again, I think you're ignoring what my post is about. There's nothing whimsical here, the idea is driven by CCP not players. I am not talking about arbitrary reroll, I am discussing player retention. If it leads to player retention where the player base is otherwise going to drop off to the tune of $11 million dollars in one year, maybe it's a win? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2381
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Posted - 2016.09.30 22:39:07 -
[33] - Quote
Bad Pennyy wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Bad Pennyy wrote:So I think you missed a few of my initial points. Human psychology is the issue.
I think throwing all that out the window and allowing players to respec based on their current whims is a big mistake Again, I think you're ignoring what my post is about. There's nothing whimsical here, the idea is driven by CCP not players. I am not talking about arbitrary reroll, I am discussing player retention. If it leads to player retention where the player base is otherwise going to drop off to the tune of $11 million dollars in one year, maybe it's a win?
Everyone who comes here imagines they are discussing player retention, no matter how insignificant or nonsensical their particular pet idea is.
It's the, "Think Of The Children" or "Tough on Crime" of Features and Ideas - utterly meaningless tosh that people tack onto their posts as a contrived method of asserting, without any real support, that their idea is a good one.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
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Posted - 2016.09.30 23:04:49 -
[34] - Quote
Bad Pennyy wrote: Again, I think you're ignoring what my post is about. There's nothing whimsical here, the idea is driven by CCP not players. I am not talking about arbitrary reroll, I am discussing player retention. If it leads to player retention where the player base is otherwise going to drop off to the tune of $11 million dollars in one year, maybe it's a win?
Citations needed. Drop off in online player count does not mean drop off in revenue. Drop in revenue does not always mean a dying game, it often leads to a leaner more focused company. So, please provide some real figures to both show that EVE is dying (When the destruction, industry & mining metrics are all up despite the lower player count), and that the inability to change SP will actually cause significant loss of players. |
Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
8
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Posted - 2016.10.01 00:47:26 -
[35] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Citations needed. Drop off in online player count does not mean drop off in revenue. Drop in revenue does not always mean a dying game, it often leads to a leaner more focused company.
2015 Financial Statement here: |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
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Posted - 2016.10.01 01:23:48 -
[36] - Quote
Bad Pennyy wrote:2015 Financial Statement here: You know that there was this entire other game which they will have ceased getting income from in 2015 right....... after it's closing became an obvious thing. And that game was making them money contrary to popular opinion. Also LOL @ you trying to use a statement that shows them making a significant upswing in profits. Even if we ignore the R&D costs which obviously included some major write off or purchase if not several they reduced overhead in a bunch of places and still had nearly the same income.
P.S. That difference is 9 million, not 11 million, learn to maths.
So yea, Citation fail on your part, those financial statements show nothing to support your argument. |
Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
8
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Posted - 2016.10.01 04:11:56 -
[37] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:[quote=Bad Pennyy]
P.S. That difference is 9 million, not 11 million, learn to maths.
So yea, Citation fail on your part, those financial statements show nothing to support your argument.
If you read through the statement, there's more to it. But you're right on the 9, I need new glasses (sorry). Subscriptions are still down though. There is a more user-friendly analysis here that shows the trend more clearly.
Keep in mind, I referring only to the drop in subscriptions and some of this drop *may* be explained by a dynamic that CCP can better address. Anyone within CCP could easily prove or disprove the assumption behind my speculation because they have access to the detailed data.
But, it's not really a fail to refer to the data for this purpose of demonstrating a drop in subscriptions, especially because it's the 2nd year of a significant drop.
Again, my proposal addresses a narrow concern, i.e. decreasing the *rate* of the decline, not the inevitability of it.
More importantly, many of the semi-off-point responses demonstrate the concept of system justification theory which I used to explain the rationale for the proposal. By this, I mean, the responses that troll or say the idea is essentially unfair are the essence of system justification theory.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
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Posted - 2016.10.01 04:32:36 -
[38] - Quote
Yes, there is a drop in subscriptions.... Except it's only a maybe. Since all we know is there is a drop in revenue. As one would expect when things like MCT are introduced since they reduce the need for subscriptions to train alts initially before transference to the main account. Or are more people simply paying with annual rather than monthly subscriptions, that would cause that much of a drop in revenue if a large number switched to annual with the discount. Now bother reading further down like you just asked me to and see the statement where they compare the annual incomes, and the exchange rates. It's a total difference of 4% to start with, with a lower exchange rate than previous years. Not to mention it's the first profit statement in 3 years.
So sure, subscriptions might be down slightly, but that doesn't actually mean anything even if it is true. Because activity metrics as rated by destruction, creation & everything else inside the game are actually up. Meaning all we have shed are a few dead weight subscriptions assuming we have shed them at all and that they haven't turned into MCT accounts instead using up stored plex (Which therefore writes off 'debt').
And no, your psuedo psych BS does not get counted as true simply because people object to your idea. Because people objecting to your idea have legitimate real reasons to call you out, and just because they didn't list them in this thread doesn't mean they haven't listed them in the last 99 'let us Respec' threads that have appeared on this forum. Something even basic research on your part would have revealed. |
Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
8
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Posted - 2016.10.01 04:43:25 -
[39] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, there is a drop in subscriptions.... Except it's only a maybe. Since all we know is there is a drop in revenue.
2015 reporting
2009 Reporting |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
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Posted - 2016.10.01 05:17:18 -
[40] - Quote
Oh no, Industry practices have changed in the last 6 years..... because every MMO other than CCP reports their subscriber numbers.... Oh wait, that's right, they don't. That's why subscriber tracking websites all shut down because no-one reports any figures any more.
And nice ignore of the rest of my post where even if the subscriber number is down it's irrelevant. |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2786
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Posted - 2016.10.01 05:24:40 -
[41] - Quote
Bad Pennyy wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Bad Pennyy wrote:So I think you missed a few of my initial points. Human psychology is the issue.
I think throwing all that out the window and allowing players to respec based on their current whims is a big mistake Again, I think you're ignoring what my post is about. There's nothing whimsical here, the idea is driven by CCP not players. I am not talking about arbitrary reroll, I am discussing player retention. If it leads to player retention where the player base is otherwise going to drop off to the tune of $11 million dollars in one year, maybe it's a win? Trying to guess what motivates the diverse group of people that make up the body of Eve players is a fool's errand. People play games for varied and multiple reasons and this is reflected in the incredibly diverse marketplace for games. CCP has chosen and had success making a single-universe, space PvP sandbox game and it attacts who it attracts. Perhaps there are some tweaks here and there that might help get new players engaged with the game at a faster or higher rate, but in general the type of game, and the marketing around it are going to have a much, much larger impact on its success than varying some arcane rule on how some resource is distributed.
Why do so many players present "ideas" to change the game to how they want it framed as a business case for the gamer developer? If you want to start proposing ideas that you think will make CCP money then go apply to work for them. Then you can discuss the psychology and marketing of games in the context of the game development business. This forum is for discussing ideas to improve this game. How financially successfully a particular feature is is something for CCP to worry about, and something they won't discuss with us.
So if you are asking me if frequent respecs would attract more customers I don't know and I don't care. I do know that it is not really compatible with the current game I am playing, and believe other players feel the same way as me. CCP has built and is selling this game, whose core idea is that we all share a persistent universe and can affect each other, and in such a game there is no place for it.
But just let CCP worry about profit. If you want to help increase the PCU, work on attracting players and getting them integrated into the current game, not theorizing on how to reengineer the game for the gaming market when you have only limited financial and technical information.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
8
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Posted - 2016.10.01 05:41:20 -
[42] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Trying to guess what motivates the diverse group of people that make up the body of Eve players is a fool's errand.
Why are so many players present "ideas" to change the game to how they want it framed as a business case for the gamer developer?
So if you are asking me if frequent respecs would attract more customers I don't know and I don't care. I do know that it is not really compatible with the current game I am playing, and believe other players feel the same way as me.
... not theorizing on how to reengineer the game for the gaming market when you have only limited financial and technical information.
Trying to stop a fool on a fool's errand maybe foolish too... But your point about complex motivations is a good one. That's why my proposal is so narrow in its focus.
Fair enough re: your view that you find the idea incompatible. That is a totally valid opinion and some folks have made very good points along these lines. I don't see how the idea, fairly presented, takes anything away from your ability to play as you want to play Eve. But, I am convinced more players makes the game more playable and so the idea has the potential to be a net win.
And, this is a sandbox / free exchange - a meta-function of the playstyle you support. There's no need to engage with the idea unless you like bumping my posts.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn Singularity Syndicate
2090
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Posted - 2016.10.01 22:08:37 -
[43] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:...So if you are asking me if frequent respecs would attract more customers I don't know and I don't care....
I believe I can answer that. They almost certainly would not since no new player in eve would understand the complexity and subtlety of the choices to be made. They may even think that respecs will improve your combat skills ala traditional RPG style where the attributes affect your chances of success etc. Those new players would be very disappointed :D
Unless a player understands the mechanic they can't understand the consequences of it, therefore it cannot affect their choice on whether to play the game or not.
I also doubt more frequent respecs would help retain players because by the time it becomes an issue in game play terms a player will have already decided whether to stick with the game or not and it will be a non-issue in retention terms.
Just my view of course. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13017
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Posted - 2016.10.02 10:39:29 -
[44] - Quote
Sooner or later, a Bad Pennyy always turns up
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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